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Blasphemy!

Yancy Street Gang Jan 03 2007 03:58 PM

="Newsweek"] Beliefwatch: Blasphemy 'Hi my name is Lindy and I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit and you should too.' Newsweek Jan. 8, 2006 issue - With that five-second submission to YouTube, a 24-year-old who uses the name "menotsimple" has either condemned herself to an eternity of punishment in the afterlife or struck a courageous blow against superstition. She's one of more than 400 mostly young people who have joined a campaign by the Web site BlasphemyChallenge.com to stake their souls against the existence of God. That, of course, is the ultimate no-win wager, as the 17th-century French mathematician Blaise Pascal calculated—it can't be settled until you're dead, and if you lose, you go to hell. The Blasphemy Challenge is a joint project of filmmaker Brian Flemming, director of the antireligion documentary "The God Who Wasn't There," and Brian Sapient, cofounder of the atheist Web site RationalResponders.com. Their intent was to encourage atheists to come forward and put their souls on the line, showing others that you don't have to be afraid of God. The particular form of the challenge was chosen because, by one interpretation, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, a part of the Christian Trinity, is the only sin that can never be forgiven. And once something you've said gets posted on YouTube, as any number of celebrities can attest, you never live it down. For better or worse, though, hell may not be so easy to get into. Despite the seemingly clear language in Mark 3:28-29 ("all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven"), most theologians are reluctant to pronounce anyone beyond repentance and salvation. Richard Land, a leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, says the passage, read in context, refers to a very narrow and specific definition of blasphemy: maliciously attributing God's miracles to a demon. Merely "denying" the Holy Spirit, by this reading, doesn't qualify. "My response," Land says, "would be to pray for these people: 'forgive them, [for] they know not what they do'." To which another self-described blasphemer, whose real name is Michael Lawson, replies that he knows exactly what he's doing: he's daring God to send him to hell. "We want to show that we really mean it when we say we don't believe a word in this book," he says. He means the Bible. God could not be reached for comment.

Nymr83 Jan 03 2007 04:16 PM

Hi my name is NYMR83 and I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit and you should too. p.s. I was never christian to begin with

Vic Sage Jan 04 2007 12:07 PM

ditto.

ScarletKnight41 Jan 04 2007 12:13 PM

I'm touched by the noodly appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

KC Jan 04 2007 01:32 PM

I don't believe in god or the holy spirit, I just love going to the building and singing and praying to the walls and rafters and giving the people who own the building lotsa dough and teaching my children to do it. I had to take religious instruction, why should they get off easy?

Yancy Street Gang Jan 04 2007 01:47 PM

My kids are getting off easy. No getting dragged to church on Sunday and feeling the energy drain out of them as the sermon drags on endlessly. No catechism classes on Saturday mornings to punch a hole in the weekend. No Holy Days of Obligation popping up unexpectedly and making you have to suddenly go to church after school on a Thursday afternoon. Parents often want their kids to have the things that they themselves didn't have. In this case, I want them not to have the things that I had to have. My son seems to appreciate it. My daughter seems to have some spiritual leanings, though. She may end up believing in something. I won't discourage it, but I certainly won't encourage it either.

KC Jan 04 2007 02:14 PM

I don't even have kids. The truth is, at least in my circle of friends, is that most of them who do go to church and temple don't believe in bupkis.

SteveJRogers Jan 04 2007 06:30 PM

KC wrote: I don't even have kids. The truth is, at least in my circle of friends, is that most of them who do go to church and temple don't believe in bupkis. That is part of a problem I think I might be having, or at least struggling with. I'm not even sure I WANT to share the same belief structure that certain people believe, or the fact that many freaking "pick and choose" want they want to believe or do. And this coming from someone who's mother was a nun for crying out loud! Maybe I just spend too much time with atheistic leftists and sci-fi/comic nuts (major hotbed for that way of thinking) on the internet! =;) But the fact that too much of organized religion is so twisted that it really does make me wonder what is it all for?

Nymr83 Jan 04 2007 07:36 PM

When I do have kids they are sure as heck NOT getting off easy, and it's not out of spite that I had to do it either. They'll get the religious education until they are somewhere in the 13-15 area whether they like it or not, after that I can let them make their own decision knowing that I've done the best I can. They are being forced to play sports too. I'd rather have adult kids who say "my mean old man dragged me to little league and synagogue" than ones who say "I wish i knew more about my religion" or "I wish I'd played ball as a kid"

Yancy Street Gang Jan 04 2007 07:43 PM

="SteveJRogers"]I'm not even sure I WANT to share the same belief structure that certain people believe, or the fact that many freaking "pick and choose" want they want to believe or do. Why shouldn't people "pick and choose" what they want to believe? It seems only reasonable to me. How can anyone force you to believe (or not believe) something? It has to come from within.

SteveJRogers Jan 04 2007 08:01 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="SteveJRogers"]I'm not even sure I WANT to share the same belief structure that certain people believe, or the fact that many freaking "pick and choose" want they want to believe or do. Why shouldn't people "pick and choose" what they want to believe? It seems only reasonable to me. How can anyone force you to believe (or not believe) something? It has to come from within. I'm more talking about mafia creeps who attend church on Sunday, who go through all the motions as if there weren't those pesky commandements about killing, stealing and adultery I'm talking about those who only attend church on Christmas and Easter I'm talking about those who take a strict interpretation of certain passages in the text that actually ARE contridicted in other passages, or at the very least the fact that the vengefull hatefull God is completely counterbalanced by the teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. I'm talking about those who see men like Sadam and Osama and look at them as A) martyers or B) holy men when they are no better than Godless creeps like a Stalin or a Hitler. I swear, maybe Lennon was right, maybe the world would be better if there wasn't religion, no heaven, no hell.

Edgy DC Jan 04 2007 08:11 PM

Deadly thread here.

KC Jan 04 2007 08:13 PM

Well it is the blasphemy thread, Edge. Rogers ... your mother was a nun???

SteveJRogers Jan 04 2007 08:14 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="SteveJRogers"]I'm not even sure I WANT to share the same belief structure that certain people believe, or the fact that many freaking "pick and choose" want they want to believe or do. Why shouldn't people "pick and choose" what they want to believe? It seems only reasonable to me. How can anyone force you to believe (or not believe) something? It has to come from within. Just to clarify, it's more the phoniness and insenserity of "picking and choosing" It has more to do with believing one thing but doing the opposite.

SteveJRogers Jan 04 2007 08:17 PM

KC wrote: Well it is the blasphemy thread, Edge. Rogers ... your mother was a nun??? Yeah. Never heard the whole story of why she left, I'm pretty sure there were issues with Vatican VIII (probably also had a burning desire to procreate as well) and I think she felt limited in the convent in terms of what she wanted to do. She's still very devout though

Yancy Street Gang Jan 04 2007 08:49 PM

Well, if she wanted to procreate, then yes, the convent was probably too limiting for her. ]I swear, maybe Lennon was right, maybe the world would be better if there wasn't religion, no heaven, no hell. Well, if you ask me, only one of those three actually exist.

Edgy DC Jan 04 2007 09:02 PM

What's Vatican VIII?

SteveJRogers Jan 04 2007 09:06 PM

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council]I meant Vatican II Boy I messed THAT one up![/url] I think she also wanted to do more in the field of education as well, more than showing up once a week and telling kids they were going to hell because they were whispering in the back of the class. Not soon after going out she went to school for an Education Masters and got a job working in Pelham. She still works in the Pelham district, though technically she retired a couple of years ago.

Vic Sage Jan 05 2007 02:17 PM

Edgy DC wrote: What's Vatican VIII? it was the last sequel in the "Vatican" series, with Pia Zadora and Costas Mandylor... went straight to video.

Willets Point Jan 05 2007 02:35 PM

Blasphemy, Blas-for-you!

ScarletKnight41 Jan 06 2007 11:58 AM

KC wrote: I don't even have kids. The truth is, at least in my circle of friends, is that most of them who do go to church and temple don't believe in bupkis. As if my Rabbi was lurking here and responding from the Bimah, this is what he said in this morning's sermon - ]It doesn't matter what you believe. Nobody cares what you believe. It's how you act that matters.

SteveJRogers Jan 06 2007 12:20 PM

ScarletKnight41 wrote: ="KC"]I don't even have kids. The truth is, at least in my circle of friends, is that most of them who do go to church and temple don't believe in bupkis. As if my Rabbi was lurking here and responding from the Bimah, this is what he said in this morning's sermon - ]It doesn't matter what you believe. Nobody cares what you believe. It's how you act that matters. Amen to that! Using the Catholic example, you can't just go, listen, consume the wafer and go out and be the opposite of what you hear inside or read. My boss actually wrestles with this notion often actually, he's a big player in the world of financial institutions where clearly Christian ethics are not generally ways of getting ahead. Not that he goes down the unethical path or anything, it's just something he often wrestles with, especially in prayer/bible reading sessions he has every Friday with his brother who is a pastor. It makes his faith stronger actually.

KC Jan 06 2007 02:03 PM

Very moving words by Mr. Rabbi, but it has more holes than swiss cheese. People care about what you believe a lot no matter how nice you are or mat- ter how solid a citizen you are. It affects one's stature in many workplaces, how people vote, how they react to the six o'clock news, even how they spend their money, and where they recreate and socialize. Speaking of money, next time there's a temple appeal for money ... tell the rabbi that you don't believe in giving money to religious institutions and see if he cares then. The monisignor in my parish growing up drove a Benz, what's the rabbi drive?

ScarletKnight41 Jan 06 2007 04:25 PM

I have no idea what he drives. Nor do I care.

KC Jan 06 2007 04:32 PM

I woulda left that part out if I thought it would make you dismiss me (again).

ScarletKnight41 Jan 06 2007 04:33 PM

I don't dismiss you. I often disagree with your conclusions, but I do not dismiss you.

Rockin' Doc Jan 07 2007 05:04 PM

I'm not looking for a religious debate and I certainly do not expect to change anyone's point of view by expressing my beliefs. However, in this thread where many have stated what they do (or don't) believe in, I feel compelled to express my beliefs as a devout christian. I attend Sunday School and church regularly and try to support my church by giving of my time, talents, and financial gifts. I do believe in God, the Father Almighty and Jesus Christ, his only son, whom I accept as the risen Lord and my saviour.

DocTee Jan 07 2007 05:21 PM

Doc-- what kind of car do you drive? (just kidding)

KC Jan 07 2007 06:03 PM

Religion and politics among friends, I'm always falling off the wagon ... Praise be to Mr. Met ... and Ms. Met too -- who I've been reminded of a num- ber of times the past month or so ...

cooby Jan 07 2007 06:45 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: I'm not looking for a religious debate and I certainly do not expect to change anyone's point of view by expressing my beliefs. However, in this thread where many have stated what they do (or don't) believe in, I feel compelled to express my beliefs as a devout christian. I attend Sunday School and church regularly and try to support my church by giving of my time, talents, and financial gifts. I do believe in God, the Father Almighty and Jesus Christ, his only son, whom I accept as the risen Lord and my saviour. I'm not currently a church-goer, but Rockin Doc is not alone.

Yancy Street Gang Jan 07 2007 07:32 PM

Oh, no, I'm sure he's not alone. He probably holds the majority view.

Nymr83 Jan 07 2007 09:16 PM

]The monisignor in my parish growing up drove a Benz, what's the rabbi drive? muine drives a broken-down wagon, if he drove somethingnicer i'd know it was time to cut back on the donations. j/k

Frayed Knot Jan 07 2007 09:52 PM

A friend of mine back in the mid-'80s used to claim that, as an atheist, the closest thing he had to a deity was Hubie Brooks.

Willets Point Jan 08 2007 04:57 AM

Something in this article irked me I finally figured out what. Not the "I don't believe" part because I support peoples' right to believe whatever they want or don't want to believe. It's the "and you should too" part. I'm not comfortable with prostelytizers and atheist prostelytizers are the worst. At least someone who is the believer there is an intention of their sharing something they think is good with you. The folks in this article seem to be saying "I'm full of contempt and disgust and want you to be full of contempt and disgust as well." So I say to those in the Blasphemy Challenge, "Stop forcing your non-belief down my throat!"

Yancy Street Gang Jan 08 2007 11:34 AM

I think the headline has led you to misread the intent of this little movement. Here's what the article said: ]Their intent was to encourage atheists to come forward and put their souls on the line, showing others that you don't have to be afraid of God. So they're not encouraging believers to renounce the Holy Spirit, just atheists. I have a friend who's an atheist, but she had her kids baptized anyway. (She, like me, was raised Catholic.) She said she "likes the ceremony" but I think she's just hedging her bets. Perhaps there are others like her: God-fearing atheists. And I guess other atheists are offended by this and are encouraging atheists not to fear God, but to embrace their disbelief. I, personally, don't think this movement is necessary. If there are atheists who still want to believe a little bit, it's no skin off my nose. If there's anyone who should be offended by what my friend did it probably ought to be the believers, because she participated in a sacrament, and made a commitment, without really believing in what she was doing. Also, I've been a lot happier since I stopped believing. I felt a sense of freedom once I no longer thought there was a God making a list and checking it twice. So a prostelytizing atheist may indeed be "sharing something they think is good with you." But non-belief, like belief, isn't for everyone, and people who have accepted a religion shouldn't be encouraged to reject it. And those who have consciously rejected it shouldn't be prostelytized to either.

Vic Sage Jan 08 2007 11:56 AM

it's not prostelytizing ... it's asking atheists to "come out of the closet" and be counted. We live in a nation ruled by christian majority, with fundamentalism of all stripes on the rise all over the world. Therefore, it is important in a democracy for minority views to be heard, and to remind the ruling majority that they don't speak for everyone, and also to remind them that the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution constrains them from governing based on religous doctrine.