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Willie Deserves Better.

metirish
Jan 24 2007 09:41 AM

I had an old thread about this months ago but I can't find it..must say I agree with Wally and Klapisch on this,maybe not the way they express themselves but the main point is valid.




]

What's the deal?
Mets spend on everyone but Willie
January 24, 2007

Perhaps if Willie Randolph were still a player, and not the manager who led them to within a victory of the World Series, the Mets would show him a little more respect and a lot more money.

Over the past month, the Mets have managed to scrape together $10.8 million for three years of Scott Schoeneweis, rustled up another $1.25 million for Jorge Sosa, more than doubled the yearly salary of Endy Chavez, from $800,000 to $1.725 million. And bought a plane ticket to Port St. Lucie for 41-year-old Ruben Sierra.

In the month previous, they rewarded Guillermo Mota for his drug suspension with a two-year, $5-million deal, even though he won't start earning his pay until Memorial Day; threw $10 million at Tom Glavine without another serious bidder in the hunt, and found $7.5 million for 40-year-old Moises Alou.

And yet they haven't been able to find the time or the money to make a deal with Randolph. At his age, 52, it seems as if Randolph is better suited to play for these Mets than to manage them.

As of last night, the two sides were still apart on money and length of contract. How far, neither side will say - both Randolph's agent, Ron Shapiro, and Mets general manager Omar Minaya declined to return calls yesterday - but it is easy to figure out what it would take to make a deal.

Clearly, Randolph is not expecting Joe Torre's paycheck or Lou Piniella's or Tony La Russa's. Neither should he be expected to work for less money than the likes of Ned Yost or Clint Hurdle or Eric Wedge.

Randolph's $700,000 a year is good money if you are a cop, a fireman, a teacher or a newspaperman, but in baseball it doesn't even buy you a backup shortstop. After being rejected by 12 teams in his quest for a manager's job, the Mets got him on the cheap. Now, they are treating him as if he should just be thankful to have a job.

In truth, it is they who should be thankful. Randolph won his division last year, in his second season, and with a little help from the front office, might have taken the Mets at least one step further and maybe all the way.

It is easy to quibble, and I have, with individual in-game decisions made by Randolph, such as sending gimpy Cliff Floyd up to try to hit a series-winning three-run homer in the ninth inning of Game 7 of the NLCS rather than have someone else bunt the runners over.

But it is impossible to argue the fact that having been forced to work the entire postseason with an injury-ravaged starting rotation, caused by a lack of foresight in the front office, Randolph actually did a remarkable job to get his team as far as he did.

And yet, incredible as it may seem, it appears as if the Mets are holding Randolph responsible for the NLCS failure against the Cardinals, as if he could have breathed new life into Glavine's 40-year-old arm, or kept Billy Wagner from blowing the key save in Game 2, or forced Carlos Beltran to lift the bat off his shoulder in Game 7.

There can be no other explanation for why this is not getting done. Clearly, Minaya has no problem asking his owners for money to spend on players, no matter how old, and just as clearly, the Wilpons have no problem saying yes.

So there must be something else at work here, some lingering doubt about Randolph's capabilities or some festering resentment about the way the season ended and who was to blame.

And no matter how it turns out, it is the Mets who are looking bad. Throwing money at aging players while hanging the manager out to dry is the stuff of bullies, the kind of thing the Yankees do, the kind of thing the Mets were supposed to be better than.

When they hired Randolph two years ago, it was a popular move for all the right reasons. Randolph is a local guy, a winner, a role model from an area better known for producing rap sheets, and a man of color in a position that is still far too lily-white.

Now, they run the risk of sending a good manager and good man into the season as a lame duck, a situation he may not recover from if the Mets should get off to a slow start. Randolph, who has changed the culture of the Mets' clubhouse every bit as much as Mike Piazza did with his arrival nine years ago, deserves better.

Now maybe if he offered to play second base ...



]

Mets' skipper deserves better

Sunday, January 14, 2007

By BOB KLAPISCH
RECORD COLUMNIST

This was early December, after the gloomy haze of the Mets' playoff loss to the Cardinals had evaporated. The organization was compiling its 2007 to-do list, which included signing Willie Randolph to a multiyear contract extension.

One senior executive predicted a new deal would be finalized "very soon" as both parties agreed on a basic premise:

Randolph, going into the final year of a three-season, $1.8 million pact, had earned a raise and greater job security after leading the Mets to a National League-best 97 wins.

More than a month later, however, no deal is in place and none seems likely anytime soon. Despite the goodwill between Randolph and the Wilpon family, there's been a significant philosophical difference over – what else – money and how to quantify the difficulty of managing in New York. Although everyone is still friendly (and talking to each other), it's possible Randolph will go into the regular season without a safety net.

If so, the Mets would be exposing Randolph to a needless summer of questions about his return or, as unlikely as it seems, his departure. Crazy, isn't it, that a team that's been willing to annually overspend for Pedro Martinez, Carlos Beltran and Billy Wagner is now fighting its manager down to the last dollar. Among the market barometers ownership has used is the $1.75 million Buck Showalter earned last season, despite his 11 years of experience.


That's the Mets' way of telling Randolph: Don't expect to be paid like Joe Torre.

Randolph, who would only say, "This is a private issue" when reached by telephone Saturday, has a much stronger counterargument. He's working in baseball's toughest market, and while he's obviously not looking for Torre's $6 million per, the Mets have been getting off cheap paying Randolph just $600,000 a year.

Put it this way: Randolph inherited the lethargy and indifference Art Howe left behind – or to be more precise, he had to clean up after Fred Wilpon's mistake. Thanks to Howe, the self-loathing Mets had turned into the NL's most expensive joke by 2004 and were desperate not just for better talent, but for leadership as well. Despite his rookie status, Randolph pulled off a small miracle in his clubhouse: He induced major-leaguers, including some of the game's biggest stars, to raise their level of play simply because the manager demanded it.

Today, no one in the Mets' clubhouse harpoons Randolph, on or off the record. While the players often mocked Howe behind his back, Randolph has their respect, and it showed in how far they went in October, coming within one pitch of the World Series.

Of course, Randolph's Game 7 decisions will forever be dissected. Should he have bunted with runners on first and second in the ninth inning, down, 3-1, instead of sending Cliff Floyd to the plate as a pinch-hitter?

Randolph isn't a perfect tactician (Floyd struck out, dooming the rally), but his in-game strategy isn't what's holding up the talks. The Mets simply don't believe Randolph deserves to triple his salary after just two years on the job – even if, as Randolph's representatives correctly point out, he successfully turned around the Mets in those two summers.

In any case, it's a profit-less exercise for the Wilpons. If they expect Randolph to keep control of the clubhouse, it's counterintuitive to beat him down over a new deal. It's ownership's money, of course, but it's anyone's guess what lesson the Mets are trying to teach Randolph after he turned them into an NL power broker.

Johnny Dickshot
Jan 24 2007 09:52 AM

metirish
Jan 24 2007 10:04 AM

No thanks,I'm having some coffee instead.

Johnny Dickshot
Jan 24 2007 10:06 AM

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you; I just hate pretty much everything Wally Matthews has to say. He's about as out-of-touch with my perspective as any baseball writer has ever been.

metirish
Jan 24 2007 10:09 AM

I didn't take offence at all, and yeah Wally is an asshole,IIRC he had less than flattering things to say about Willie after the NLCS, still I would like to see Willie get a deal done before the season.

Yancy Street Gang
Jan 24 2007 10:13 AM

I don't think there's any such thing as a "lame duck" manager, unless you count those last few games managed by Art Howe after he was fired.

metirish
Jan 24 2007 10:19 AM

What concerns me more than Willie getting a big pay day is a possible distraction it would be if he went into the season without a new one,and it would be a big distraction I would think...maybe he's bolt to the Bronx after the season...

KC
Jan 24 2007 10:23 AM

Wally's nothing more than a Mets' fan rabblerouser ... always has been.
Dumb column, I ain't even reading Klapper's.

Frayed Knot
Jan 24 2007 10:29 AM

This has been a topic all week: Bill Madden on Sunday; Kalpisch & Matthews here; M&MD yesterday, and I think it's mainly because ... well because there's just not that much else to talk about until the substanative articles on the Super Bowl (to the extent that any of them are substanative) start up next Tuesday.

And none of these articles seem to be all that close to knowing any particulars as none are even guessing as to what's being offered by the team or asked for by Willie. It's easy to just say 'Pay the Man' but it's pretty much meaningless if you don't know the details. Maybe it's Willie who's mucking things up by figuring he can cash in for LaRussa/Cox/Piniella type of money off his first two years and is willing to make himself a managerial FA a year from now if he doesn't get his price.

iramets
Jan 24 2007 10:39 AM

Yeah, and I think it's a taking at cheap shot at anti-Mets writers like [name your least fav columnist here] who sometimes contrive ways to criticize your team. But maybe they're defending your team here by attacking Willie.

Because FK's right: it could well be that Willie's pulling some Yank-me Torre-style headgames with Mets management about "Pay me what I might be worth given a few NL championships NOW or else I walk and make you look like cheapasses" and the Wilpons aren't playing dat shit. You don't know, and I suspect there's a lot of evidence (Yankee background, prideful headgames with Cincy before coming here, general belligerant defensiveness, etc.) that Willie may be the bad guy here.

KC
Jan 24 2007 10:47 AM

If you're talking to me, ira, I don't think it's a cheap shot at all. The problem
is (and I'm not saying that this is the exact case this time) is that you could
probably go back to October Wally columns and read what a miserable dolt
Willy is and the Mets will never get to the promised land under his command
bbbyyy. There's no accountability anymore. It's one thing for a poster who has
the ears of a couple of hundred internet readers to change like the wind every
other month -- but to me columnists like Wally who work "for a great metro-
politan newspaper" should stick to more "truth and justice"

Edgy DC
Jan 24 2007 10:58 AM

]Put it this way: Randolph inherited the lethargy and indifference Art Howe left behind – or to be more precise, he had to clean up after Fred Wilpon's mistake.


Klassick Klapisch.

holychicken
Jan 24 2007 11:19 AM

The fact of the matter is that Willie SHOULD be thankful for the job. Noone else seemed to want to give him a chance and the Mets did.

Seems to me that this quite possibly just a made up controversy because they have nothing better to write about, as usual.

metirish
Jan 24 2007 11:22 AM

Well if Willie should be thankful for the job then the Mets should be thankful they have him...

holychicken
Jan 24 2007 11:33 AM

metirish wrote:
Well if Willie should be thankful for the job then the Mets should be thankful they have him...

I don't see the connection.

FTR, I don't think Willie is a bad manager. As one (or both) of the articles pointed out, he does have a clubhouse full of stars and works in one of the toughest markets and managed to guide them almost all the way to the WS. So in that respect, he has done a good job.

However, he wasn't able to to prove that he was able to do this until the Wilpons and Omar gave him a shot. So sure, he deserves a raise, however, I also believe that he should be giving a discount to the organization for giving him a shot.

Granted, I have no idea what numbers they are talking about. . . if they are even talking about numbers at all . . . I just think that the immediate assumption that the Wilpons are being cheap and that they should be throwing money at Willie kind of ignores what they did for him.

iramets
Jan 24 2007 12:22 PM

Also a good GP to follow is to resist buying extra years on a contract just to prevent making someone a lame duck. If the Wilpons think "We never want to get committed to a manager for longer than we think we'll need im," then just don't offer your manager a long-term contract. In this case, WIllie deserves guaranteed money through '07 and maybe '08, but IMO the Mets would be foolish to sign him to big money beyond '08. That's a lot of time there for things to go VERY sour (not just with Willie, but with any manager) --pay the man whats he's worth for as long as you think you'll want him to manage, but if he needs what's he's worth (in annual salary) for two or three times as long as you're comfortable, then you need to let him walk. There's a lot of good managers out there

86-Dreamer
Jan 24 2007 01:06 PM

it seems to me that every Wally article I make the mistake of reading contains at least one incorrect fact along with his off-base analysis. Although it is not material to his main point, Wagner did not blow a save in Game 2 of the NLCS:

"or kept Billy Wagner from blowing the key save in Game 2,"

My feelings about Matthew's are the same as JD stated above. I disagree with nearly everything he writes.

Edgy DC
Jan 24 2007 01:17 PM

86-Dreamer wrote:
"or kept Billy Wagner from blowing the key save in Game 2,"

You needn't have cut it off there. It's also untrue that the Mets failure to advance any further really had anything to with the lack of life in Tom Glavine's arm.

smg58
Jan 24 2007 01:35 PM

I do think Randolph has earned a raise. I don't know any specifics on the negotiations, though, and this is something that didn't need to be resolved yesterday. I'm perfectly willing to assume for the time being that this will be resolved to everybody's satisfaction eventually.

MFS62
Jan 24 2007 09:12 PM

Daily News says its a done deal.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/491576p-414092c.html

Later

vtmet
Jan 24 2007 09:16 PM

I don't really know what is the right salary for a manager that is still a relative "newbie" but has been successful in improving his team both years of his leadership...Obviously, he shouldn't be getting Bobby Cox type of money, but from from what I've read today, the Mets are rumored to be offering $900K per season...from the following list, how many of these guys would you rather have managing the Mets over Willie:
]Bruce Bochy, SF $1.75 million
Terry Francona, BOS $1.65 million
Phil Garner, HOU $1.5 million
Mike Hargrove, SEA $1.3 million
Ron Gardenhire, MIN $1.25 million
Ozzie Guillen, CHW $1.1 million
Eric Wedge, CLE $1.025 million
Jim Tracy, PIT $1 million
Bob Melvin, ARI $875,000


Yet, Willie would be getting paid less than everyone, except Melvin, who he would barely be edging out...(that is, IF, the rumored $900K was what the Mets think he should get)...

vtmet
Jan 24 2007 09:24 PM

MFS62 wrote:
Daily News says its a done deal.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/491576p-414092c.html

Later


Good...Willie's not perfect, but I'm glad that they got it done...not much details, but a very respectable $2M for '09 season...

Ok...now that this is out of the way...what do the NY baseball writers have to write about for the next 3 weeks while waiting for pitchers/catchers to report? I think they are fresh out of topics...

metirish
Jan 24 2007 09:49 PM

I'll take no credit for this....:)

KC
Jan 24 2007 09:52 PM

Pretty funny that while Michael Kay was having an embolism today on the
radio and name dropping about a function he was at last night with the '77
Yankees and how ex-Yankees were telling him about how Willie was getting
the short end of the stick and how Wally hit the nail on the head and ... ok
that's enough of that run-on ... Willie was off signing a contract.

I don't see how anyone can stick up for the stuff that some of these guys pull
just so they have something to write or get some callers.

Frayed Knot
Jan 24 2007 10:30 PM

So it looks like all that wailing from the columnists was much ado about nothing in the long run. Well, either that or they'll claim that it was their columns the spurred the team to make the deal. Yeah, that's the ticket.


Here is the entire list of manager salaries according to Bill Madden's Sunday column:

Joe Torre, NYY $7.5 million
Lou Piniella, CHC $3.5 million
Bobby Cox, ATL $3 million
Tony La Russa, STL $2.8 million
Mike Scioscia, LAA $2 million
Jim Leyland, DET $2 million
Bruce Bochy, SF $1.75 million
Terry Francona, BOS $1.65 million
Phil Garner, HOU $1.5 million
Mike Hargrove, SEA $1.3 million
Ron Gardenhire, MIN $1.25 million
Ozzie Guillen, CHW $1.1 million
Eric Wedge, CLE $1.025 million
Jim Tracy, PIT $1 million
Bob Melvin, ARI $875,000
Buddy Bell, KC $825,000
Ned Yost, MIL $825,000
Clint Hurdle, COL $800,000
Charlie Manuel, PHI $800,000
Willie Randolph, NYM $700,000
Jerry Narron, CIN $600,000
Grady Little, LAD $600,000
Sammy Perlozzo, BAL $600,000
Ron Washington, TEX $600,000
Joe Maddon, TAM $550,000
John Gibbons, TOR $500,000
Manny Acta, WAS $500,000
Bob Geren, OAK $500,000


Seeing as how this new deal replaces the old one for 2007 it stands to reason that he got a salary bump for this year in addition to the expected bump for the next two seasons. And seeing as how he tops out at $2mil I'd guess he's averaging in the $1.3-$1.5 range over the next three years.
Sounds about right to me.

metirish
Jan 24 2007 10:35 PM

Wally will probably write how the Mets stiffed Willie....

Gwreck
Jan 25 2007 01:51 AM

Looking at that chart, one could theoretically argue that Willie might be a little overpaid.

Almost every salary over one million on that chart has either 10+ years experience and/or a World Series Championship. The only exceptions are Gardenhire (playoffs 4 of 5 years), Wedge and Tracy.

SteveJRogers
Jan 25 2007 07:29 AM

metirish wrote:
Wally will probably write how the Mets stiffed Willie....


Actually Wally and Michael Kay (who spent his entire first hour on this) will probably be congratulating themselves as the "reason" for the Mets "doing the right thing"

Edgy DC
Jan 25 2007 08:09 AM

Let's start a campaign to get Gardenhire his payday.

metirish
Jan 25 2007 08:22 AM

Edgy DC wrote:
Let's start a campaign to get Gardenhire his payday.


I'll start a thread later.....

metirish
Jan 25 2007 09:00 AM

The money breakdown....

]Randolph and the Mets agreed in principle yesterday to a three-year, $5.65-million extension, three people familiar with the situation confirmed. The extension will kick in immediately -- Randolph's $700,000 contract for 2007 was torn up -- and run through 2009, with a team option for 2010.

The 52-year-old will earn $1.4 million this season, $2 million in 2008 and $2.25 million in 2009. The 2010 team option is for $2.5 million.

Vic Sage
Jan 25 2007 10:18 AM

this puts him 10th overall next season, and his 3-4 year average puts him in the Leyland/Sciosia/Francona/Bochy range, which is probably a bit high for a 2-year man, but not egregiously so. A good deal overall, for both sides.

Edgy DC
Jan 29 2007 09:14 AM

This was a good idea for an article with Ken Davidoff going back and reviewing each of Willie Randolph's failed interviews. Not a lot of substance comes out, but at least one team seemed to have shied away because maybe they felt he was more interested in succeeding Torre (and maybe interested in using their team as a stepping stone). What's interesting is that he wasn't the only guy to turn down the Reds offer.

Twelfth time was a charm for Willie

Randolph endured years of disappointment before finding his niche

BY KEN DAVIDOFF, Newsday Staff Writer
January 26, 2007


The answer is 11.

Eleven times Willie Randolph interviewed for a managerial opening and didn't get the job, earning an unwelcome, legendary status of sorts within baseball circles. But it turned into a lucky dozen when Mets general manager Omar Minaya hired him in November 2004.

It has worked out pretty well, of course. After two impressive seasons, Randolph earned himself a three-year, $5.65-million extension, announced yesterday by the Mets.

So what took him so long? Here's a look back, job opening by job opening, at Randolph's path to his own office.

1. Blue Jays, 1997

Gord Ash is now the Brewers' assistant GM, and as Toronto's GM, he was the first executive to officially target Randolph, then 43 and the Yankees' third-base coach, as a future manager. He interviewed him after firing Cito Gaston.

"Willie was a guy I had always admired as a player," Ash said. "He wasn't a guy who needed to be out front. He had a reserved personality but there was a fire there.

"The only thing was, when we interviewed him, he didn't, at that point, really have a game plan for what he wanted to do as a manager ... Without any minor-league track record of managing a ballclub, and without, in his own mind, a formulated game plan of how he would do it, it was tough to take a chance at that point."

Ash hired Tim Johnson, and the Blue Jays went 88-74 in 1998. But Johnson's managerial career hit an iceberg after that season when he admitted to lying about fighting in Vietnam. Ash fired Johnson in spring training of 1999.

2. Rockies, 1999

Jim Leyland quit the Rockies just one year into a three-year, $6-million deal. Colorado GM Dan O'Dowd received permission from the Yankees to talk with Randolph, and that's all the two men did -- talk.

"He was in the middle of the playoffs, so I never really got a chance to meet with him," O'Dowd said. "I spoke with him on the phone, but the train had already gone on the track. We needed to make a decision."

His hire, Buddy Bell, went 161-185 before getting fired shortly into the 2002 season.

3. Brewers, 1999

The Brewers fired GM Sal Bando and manager Phil Garner after long runs, and new GM Dean Taylor reached out to Randolph, eventually narrowing his search to Randolph and Davey Lopes.

"[Randolph] had two outstanding interviews," said Taylor, now the Royals' assistant GM. "... Davey had a reputation of playing the game hard when he played. Davey brought some of that to the table, as well, in terms of what he was going to be bringing to the manager's job. At the time, that was a little bit more what we were looking for."

Lopes went 144-195 and was fired a couple of weeks before the Rockies dismissed Bell in 2002.

4. Phillies, 2000

The Phillies let manager Terry Francona go after four losing seasons.

"We actually interviewed Willie in New York during the World Series. We met with him at the Grand Hyatt," said then-Phillies GM Ed Wade, who works for the Padres. "I thought it was a great interview.

" ... I got a little bit of a sense that although he was interested in managing, he seemed to be content to stay in New York and see what developed down the road. We never got to the point of economics, but he referenced that the situation in New York was pretty attractive, from the standpoint of the Yankees' history of going to postseason and the benefits he reaped from that.

"There was no question in my mind the opportunity would present itself to him."

For the Phillies, hiring the popular, experienced Larry Bowa made the most sense. Bowa, now in Randolph's old spot as Yankees third-base coach, went 337-308 in four seasons before being fired.

5. Reds, 2000

This one falls at least partly on Randolph, although it also ranks as the most bizarre of his job quests.

The Reds, having dismissed Jack McKeon after an 85-win season, looked to longtime organization man Ron Oester, who turned down the two-year, $650,000 offer with the thought that he was negotiating. The Reds, viewing their offer in more of a "take it or leave it" vein, ditched Oester and made the same proposal to Randolph.

With an under-market offer, the power to hire only one or two coaches and a team seemingly on the decline, Randolph turned down the opportunity. Bob Boone signed the identical two-year, $650,000 contract and lasted until July 2003.

Nationals GM Jim Bowden, who ran the Reds at the time, didn't return a telephone call. Former Mets executive Al Goldis, who worked as Bowden's special assistant, sat in on Randolph's two interviews and said, "Willie was viewed very favorably. I think he would've gotten the job. But he made the right decision."

6. Twins, 2001

After eight straight losing seasons, Tom Kelly led the Twins to an 85-77 record in 2001. Then he stepped down.

"Willie was an impressive interview for me," Twins GM Terry Ryan said. " ... I thought we had a good exchange. At that time, we were on the verge of becoming a lot more successful, and Willie was very aware of everything that surrounded our club, just from working in the same league. He came across well."

But as Ryan said, "We've tried to do things from within here." The Twins opted to promote third-base coach Ron Gardenhire, who just completed his fifth season and won his fourth AL Central title.

7. Mets, 2002

GM Steve Phillips prevailed in his power struggle with Bobby Valentine, firing him after a last-place showing. He interviewed Randolph twice before deciding on Art Howe.

"I thought he could do it, but I didn't know he could do it," said Phillips, now a baseball commentator for ESPN. "Being in a large market, needing to win immediately, I felt we needed to go with experience in the end. We didn't have the margin for error to go with an inexperienced guy.

"I think he's done a terrific job. He's done an even better job than I thought he could."

Howe, of course, was dismissed just two years into his four-year agreement.

8. Brewers, 2002

Dean Taylor lasted only three years, and Doug Melvin, formerly the Rangers' GM, entered and brought Randolph back to Milwaukee for another shot.

"I played with Willie in 1972 [in the Pirates' organization]," Melvin said. "He interviewed well. The reason I went with Ned Yost wasn't any reflection upon Willie. I had spent 30 years in the AL as a GM and player development guy, and this was my first year in the NL as a GM. I went with Ned because Ned was a little more familiar with the NL.

" ... I didn't think the timing was right for us. The Mets' situation was perfect for him."

Yost still manages the Brewers.

9. Tigers, 2002

Dave Dombrowski, after his first season as president and GM, dismissed interim manager Luis Pujols and included Randolph as part of his search for a long-term solution. The job went to former Tigers shortstop Alan Trammell, who lasted three seasons before Leyland replaced him.

"We thought he was a very, very good baseball man," Dombrowski said. "We thought, at that point, Tram presented a lot of those same qualities. And with his history in the organization, it made a lot more sense to go in that direction. But our feelings were [Randolph] would be a good manager."

10. Devil Rays, 2002

After firing Hal McRae, Tampa Bay interviewed a group of candidates that included Randolph -- and hired none of them, as Lou Piniella fell into the Devil Rays' laps. Before that unlikely sequence of events, however, Tampa Bay targeted coach Tom Foley as McRae's replacement.

Piniella gave up after three frustrating years. Former Devil Rays GM Chuck LaMar didn't return calls for comment.

11. Mariners, 2002

After Randolph went 0-for-4, he appeared to be done for the 2002-03 offseason. But when Piniella left the Mariners for Tampa Bay, Randolph's former Yankees teammate created another opening, and the Mariners called upon Randolph. They didn't advance him to their round of four finalists, however, and they hired Diamondbacks bench coach Bob Melvin, who lasted just two years before being dismissed.

The Mariners' GM at the time, Pat Gillick, is now the Phillies' GM. He declined comment for this story.

12. Mets, 2004

This one worked out a little better. "We feel very good not only about the decision to bring him here but how Willie has done," Minaya said. No reason for Randolph to ponder the next job interview now.

metirish
Jan 29 2007 09:25 AM

Well if we are to believe what the baseball people are saying in that article then the interview process was not nearly as bad as some make it out for Willie.....and what has lying about fighting in Vietnam got to do with coaching the Blue Jays?

Edgy DC
Jan 29 2007 09:43 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 29 2007 10:31 AM

metirish wrote:
Well if we are to believe what the baseball people are saying in that article then the interview process was not nearly as bad as some make it out for Willie.....


Well, some of it has to be reading between the lines. And part of the "bad"-ness of it all was the sheer volume of interviews and opportunities he fell short of, making it look like he was a token minority interview to validate the teams' hiring process in the face of Selig's aggressive affirmative action plan. And whether or not that's true, the notion has got to take a toll on a man's dignity.

metirish wrote:
and what has lying about fighting in Vietnam got to do with coaching the Blue Jays?


Quite a bit when Johnson was using combat stories to motivate his players and it all turned out to be crap. It was a pretty sad story. The lie took on a life of its own and it was almost as if he had come to believe it himself.

The team, for what it's worth, didn't fire him immediately. He came back to start the season but a few weeks into spring training they got the notion that he had lost the team.

Frayed Knot
Jan 29 2007 09:52 AM

From his first try with the Blue Jays:

"The only thing was, when we interviewed him, he didn't, at that point, really have a game plan for what he wanted to do as a manager ... Without any minor-league track record of managing a ballclub, and without, in his own mind, a formulated game plan of how he would do it, it was tough to take a chance at that point."

On such comments are reputations such as; 'I hear he doesn't interview well', are born. Reps like that are then often repeated with each successive non-hire whether it was true in that case or not.

metirish
Jan 29 2007 10:07 AM

metirish wrote:
and what has lying about fighting in Vietnam got to do with coaching the Blue Jays?


="Edgy DC"]
Quite a bit when Johnson was using combat stories to motivate his players and it all turned out to be crap. It was a pretty sad story. The lie took on a life of its own and it was almost as if he had come to believe it himself.

The team, for what it's worth, didn't fire him immediately. He came back to start the season but a few weeks into spring training they got the notion that he had lost the team.

Oh,Ok,that explains that....has he been out of the game since I wonder.