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Would you believe...?

iramets Feb 01 2007 04:02 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 01 2007 04:44 PM

I just happened upon the identity of the Mets' leadoff batter throughout early September of 1963 (while researching for cleanup hitters who had as few HRs as Ricky Ledee)--would you believe Casey thought Ed Kranepool would do well in the leadoff spot? This was NOT a one time freak thing--he put Kranepool in the leadoff spot every day for almost two straight weeks. You would? Okay, how 'bout this, sports fans. While doing research for my next Parody contest entry (I've got both Koosman and Lolich) I found their stats: UMDB (and other sources) have Koosman listed at 220 pounds, and Lolich at 170. If you told 100 Mets fans that there was a 50 pound difference between these two pitchers, I'd guess 100 of them would say it was the other way around.

Frayed Knot Feb 01 2007 04:19 PM

"Lolich at 170" And when he put the other foot on the scale? There are most likely a whole slew of guys whose records carry their rookie weight (or even minor league weight) around forever.

Nymr83 Feb 01 2007 05:40 PM Re: Would you believe...?

iramets wrote: I just happened upon the identity of the Mets' leadoff batter throughout early September of 1963 (while researching for cleanup hitters who had as few HRs as Ricky Ledee)--would you believe Casey thought Ed Kranepool would do well in the leadoff spot? This was NOT a one time freak thing--he put Kranepool in the leadoff spot every day for almost two straight weeks. looking at that team i'm not sure who should have led off, 2B Ron Hunt would be my choice based on the stats (with Thomas and Snider 3-4 and Jim Hickman 2nd) but they're all so bad that it probably doesnt matter

cleonjones11 Feb 01 2007 06:42 PM

I would think Ron hiy by pitch Hunt would leadoff . Ed K should be flattered Lolich? Maybe they weighed his ass?

Nymr83 Feb 01 2007 07:04 PM

cleonjones11 wrote: I would think Ron hiy by pitch Hunt would leadoff . Ed K should be flattered Lolich? Maybe they weighed his ass? Ron Hunt led th eleague in HBP 7 years in a row (a feat Biggio couldnt even match) and was one hit 50 times... i have a feeling the "attempt to get out of the way" rule or the "its a strike if you're over the plate" rule werent enforced even then.

cleonjones11 Feb 01 2007 08:07 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ="cleonjones11"]I would think Ron hiy by pitch Hunt would leadoff . Ed K should be flattered Lolich? Maybe they weighed his ass? Ron Hunt led th eleague in HBP 7 years in a row (a feat Biggio couldnt even match) and was one hit 50 times... i have a feeling the "attempt to get out of the way" rule or the "its a strike if you're over the plate" rule werent enforced even then. No doubt

Frayed Knot Feb 01 2007 11:14 PM

]i have a feeling the "attempt to get out of the way" rule or the "its a strike if you're over the plate" rule werent enforced even then. Interesting look at HBPs over time [url=http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-hbp-explosion-that-almost-nobody-seems-to-have-noticed/]here[/url] Hunt's era was while HBPs overall were in a period of a mini-boomlet - but not nearly as high as they were earlier in the century or where they are NOW!!!!, the highest rate they've ever been. Lotsa speculation in the article as to the whys and wherefores of the ups & downs over the years although it's tough to nail down specific cause & effect type of proofs.

Edgy DC Feb 01 2007 11:26 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 02 2007 08:00 AM

I guess it makes sense that Hunt was among the first generation wearing helmets from the start of his career. Some somewhat dubious assertions there about the modern era. Craig Biggio, perhaps the most obvious armor practioner, has been plunked 282 times in his career, poising him in 2007 to surpass 19th-century star Hughie Jennings for the all-time record. But no one of conscience would suggest it to be proper for MLB to disallow the use of batting helmets, and it's problematic to find clear distinction between the validity of protective gear for the head versus that for other vulnerable body parts. It's not problematic at all. Some body parts are vital. While the increasing use of body armor is obviously relevant, it would seem that by far the more causative factor in the exploding HBP rate is the plate posture of the typical modern batter, whether wearing armor or not. The armor-wearing guy doesn't retreat. Wouldn't it be easy enough to crack down on abuse of armor by disallowing a player from progressing to first if he gets hit on an armored part of his body, besides his head? Coupled with hitters' unprecedented knowledge that any pitch more than a shade inside will generate a warning from the ump that the next inside delivery will send the pitcher to the showers, the result is a hegemony that earlier hitters could only dream about. This would be a fair point to bring up if the exagerration wasn't so insulting.

iramets Feb 02 2007 05:43 AM

Bill James (whose ideas for rectifying the HBP crisis is cited in the article) often complains about needed rules-changes routinely ignored for decades (or forever) by the PTB in MLB. Most of the ideas alluded to in the article make loads of sense and would make the game better, and safer, and quicker, and more nutritious. There's a great (and fairly recent) 3-part [url=http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2005/02/breakfast_with.php]interview[/url] with him here, for those who miss his writing.)

Edgy DC Feb 23 2007 12:23 PM

Armando Benitez is listed at 6'4" and 180. Maybe on the moon.