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What value do you place ...

metirish Feb 28 2007 08:27 AM

in bullpen guys,especially guys like say Heilman and the like,do they have any real value in fantasy baseball....if you were to put a point value on pitchers with 10 being the highest how would you rate them,closer,situation guys and 7/8th inning pitchers.

Nymr83 Feb 28 2007 08:47 AM

it really all depends on the league. in a 4x4 league relievers have more value than they do in a 5x5, in a 12 team nl-only league heilman probably gets used eiter way. ina 12 team mixed league he definetaly doesnt. what if we have a 17 team league like last year? i'd probably leave him off my team since he has about a 1% chance of becoming the closer or a starter... i'd hang on to good relievers who are behind shaky closers or who look destined for the rotation.

smg58 Feb 28 2007 01:11 PM

Set-up guys only make much of a fantasy impact in numbers. If you can find three good ones, you could get 20 wins and 200 K's with an ERA in the 2's and a WHIP around one. That equals one great starter. The catch is, you need to be in a pretty deep league for that to be a preferable option to additional full-time hitters or starting pitchers.

Nymr83 Feb 28 2007 02:33 PM

unless you are in a league deep enough that everyone can't fill their lineups with starting pitchers and closers (of which there will be a combined 180 at all times) there is probably someone out there who will help you more in Ws and Ks than a middle reliever. now the middle reliever may (and almost always will) have a better ERA/WHIP than the starters who you can get as free agents, but the number of innings they throw may make that effect negligible.

metsmarathon Feb 28 2007 03:18 PM

unless you're in a holds league. then the 7th/8th inning guy can become more valuable. holds aren't as stable as saves, necessarily, and they don't pile up as much, so those guys are still less valuable than a good closer, but now may be more valuable than a bad closer...

metirish Feb 28 2007 07:09 PM

So would it make sense then to drop RL pitchers except the closer and pick up starters?

Nymr83 Feb 28 2007 08:05 PM

unless you are worried about the ERA/WHIP effects of a poor starter, yes.

cooby Feb 28 2007 08:07 PM

Just my two cents on middle relievers, if they get lots of K's in few innings, I found them to be a good thing to have. I forget who I had last year, but he had maybe 1 1/3 innings every night and usually at least 2 strike outs. A very good player for me.

metsmarathon Mar 01 2007 07:42 AM

if you're already getting wins from your starters, the middle relievers are good for improving weak ratios.

Nymr83 Mar 01 2007 09:09 AM

cooby wrote: Just my two cents on middle relievers, if they get lots of K's in few innings, I found them to be a good thing to have. I forget who I had last year, but he had maybe 1 1/3 innings every night and usually at least 2 strike outs. A very good player for me. but K/9 isn't a category, if you wanted K's you'd be better off with the starter who goes 5 and K's 3. Similiarly, in response to metsmarathon, you'd get MORE wins with another starter, so unless you have such great starters already that you are uncatchable in wins you are hurting yourself in wins by putting a reliever in there. the only situation where i could see myself wanting a middle reliever is late in the season if i'm already way ahead in wins and k's and want to keep my era/whip from blowing up. obviously this doesnt include guys who i think are going to change roles...we have a bench after all and i think we're discussing when you'd want to play your relievers not when you'd want to roster them.

abogdan Mar 01 2007 12:18 PM

Nymr83 wrote: but K/9 isn't a category, if you wanted K's you'd be better off with the starter who goes 5 and K's 3. If there is a somewhat moderate IP maximum, however, then K becomes K/9. Yahoo defaults to a 1250 IP max, which is easily met. If everyone is pitching the same number of innings, then your goal is to get as many strikeouts as you can in 1250 IP. High K/9 guys can be extremely valuable in those leagues. Even in leagues without a IP max, middle relievers can be worthwhile. Would you rather have a solid middle reliever to give you 70-80 innings of great ERA and WHIP with a handful of wins and Ks and the occassional save, or would you rather chase an additional 7-8 wins and 50-60 Ks with a middle to back of the rotation starter who will drag your ratios down?

Nymr83 Mar 01 2007 02:37 PM

yeah, an IP cap is something that can change the formula, but only if that cap is a significant one...a cap low enough to stop you from filling all your pitching slots (minus two for closers) with starters. i havent seen a cap that low. 1250 with 7 pitchers (yahoo's standards) won't do that at all. if you give the 2 closers 75 ip each that leaves 1100 for 5 starters or 220 innings each.... i think you'd be hard pressed to throw that many innings with 5 guys even if you spent your first 5 draft picks on starters. the inning cap really only prevents the frequent exchanging of starters.

metirish Mar 27 2007 08:38 PM

So are we putting value on true middle relievers?,if I have a chance to pick up Scott Linebrink for Dotel should I do it?

Nymr83 Mar 27 2007 08:51 PM

probably not. neither guy helps you in wins, sometimes a reliever has fluke year with lots of wins but theres absolutely no way of predicting who that will be, wins are random enough for starters, for relievers they are almost a total crapshoot. dotel, as long as he is the closer, will help you in saves (which linebrink won't), both should help your era/whip a little or at least not hurt it. they should be about equal in k's as well. so as long as dotel is picking up saves he's more valuable, if dotel stops getting saves you should try to find a new closer, if you cant do that only then would i go to a middle reliever (who are dead weight in 2 of 5 pitching categories and only marginally helpful in the other 3 do to their limited innings)