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Field of Schemes: Public Price Tag on NYC Stadia Going Up

Edgy DC Jul 19 2005 04:44 PM

Article.

metirish Jul 19 2005 10:57 PM

I got a bit lost in all the money talk but this article fails to mention any money new stadiums might bring to the local areas, lets assume these stadiums attract new business's and the like, the area around Shea right now surely will look different and will bring in a lot of money, wouldn't the City benifit from that?

Edgy DC Jul 19 2005 11:11 PM

Well, first of all, hiding costs is lowdown, whether you intend to see revenues or not. Second of all, the notion of revenue windfalls from stadia, helping the city at large, have been mostly debunked.

Spacemans Bong Jul 19 2005 11:16 PM

It's usually a myth, but Willets Point has nothing but chop shops going on right now, anything that brings money to the area would be the first. The South of Market looks radically different from before the Giants came there until now. Was it solely due to the ballpark? No, but getting 3 million more people over there over a year helps. Local bars and restaurants are filled after a game. Is there even anything in Willets Point?

metirish Jul 19 2005 11:21 PM

No, I see what the article is saying and the idea that new stadiums bringing new revenue has as you said been debunked, it's no surprise that the stadiums will cost the City more that first said, I worked on the construction of the Arthur Ashe tennis stadium for nearly four years and that thing cost a whole lot more than Dinkins said it would, who owns this site, are they anti-stadium, are they a "think-tank" type deal that keeps tabs on these kind of public funding?

Edgy DC Jul 19 2005 11:25 PM

Well, the chop shops are blightly and unsightly, but they're successful taxpaying businesses and have been for a long time. It'll take a lot of money to buy them out, and it's a superfund cleanup site the minute you do. And I happen to think the Fuddruckers and Hooters that are likely to replace them are blightly and unsightly also.

Willets Point Jul 19 2005 11:34 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 20 2005 01:12 AM

Spacemans Bong wrote: Is there even anything in Willets Point? I have a mind, heart and a soul.

Edgy DC Jul 19 2005 11:44 PM

Yeah, the site and the author are anti-public financing of stadia. He can be heard from chatting here at baseball prospectus. The title comes from this book, with a different author:

metirish Jul 20 2005 12:03 AM

Great link, thanks, Neil deMause knows his stuff, this exchange caught my eye, anyone we know? ]Kranepool (NYC): Neil, I've always felt that the NY Mets missed the boat when they did not consider Coney Island for a new major league stadium instead of a minor league one. What do you think? Neil deMause: Despite all the vacant land, there's not actually a lot of room in Coney Island for an MLB-sized stadium, unless you wanted to put it on the beach or have Surf Avenue run under the infield. Also, C.I. isn't all that easy to get to, especially by car, compared to Shea. And they'd risk annoying their fan base in Queens/Long Island/Connecticut... I don't see much upside there, as much as it'd make it easier for me personally to get to games. IMO people like this guy are needed, the DC situation will be worth watching.

Spacemans Bong Jul 20 2005 01:27 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Well, the chop shops are blightly and unsightly, but they're successful taxpaying businesses and have been for a long time. It'll take a lot of money to buy them out, and it's a superfund cleanup site the minute you do. And I happen to think the Fuddruckers and Hooters that are likely to replace them are blightly and unsightly also. Fuddruckers and Hooters didn't pop up in the South of Market area. It's not EXACTLY Willets Point, but it's not that dissimilar (there's chop shops in the area). What popped up were residential areas, good-quality shops and restaurants. A lot of good independent bars, including some brewpubs, a few good chain restaurants (Amici's East Coast Pizza..mmm) and condos. Like, a reason to stay around after a game. Other than the Garden, I can't imagine an stadium in the NYC area where people are in the area before and after a game. It's really quite nice.

sharpie Jul 20 2005 03:23 PM

South of Market was upcoming well before the Giants moved there. I moved out of San Fran in the early '80's and it was changing drastically already. The immediate area where they built what was PacBell wasn't surrounded by the likes of what Shea is currently surrounded by. It was more abandoned factories and small stores rather than chopshops.

Edgy DC Jul 20 2005 03:33 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 20 2005 03:55 PM

If people want more authentic sports-fan friendly restaurants and bars in and around Flushing, it would seem to me that the best thing to do would be to (1) patronize businesses already in Flushing, expanding your horizon and bringing more and more competition to the area for your sporst-fan dollar, or (2) get a bunch of investors together and open your own place up. Ed Kranepool's been in the lining-up-investors racket and the restarurant racket. He might want to help you. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled (ugh!) that the state can sieze private property with no more public interest than the promotion of economic development, you'll probably get your ballpark village, but I don't think it'll be worth what it'll eventually cost, once we figure out what that cost is.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 20 2005 03:46 PM

I'm getting ideas. Now open on the banks of the Flushing River: THE CRANE POOL GRILL. Enjoy contemporary American cuisine on our 1,200 square foot patio overlooking Flushing Bay with your host, Ed Kranepool. Just steps from new Shea! Now open in the new Willets Point; THE CHOP SHOP: Enjoy aged USDA choice steaks and chops in a lively atmosphere recalling a 1960s era garage and auto repair shop. All our booths feature actual seating from actual cars and decor stright out of the 1966 Mustang design team!

Spacemans Bong Jul 20 2005 04:16 PM

sharpie wrote: South of Market was upcoming well before the Giants moved there. I moved out of San Fran in the early '80's and it was changing drastically already. The immediate area where they built what was PacBell wasn't surrounded by the likes of what Shea is currently surrounded by. It was more abandoned factories and small stores rather than chopshops. Go three or four blocks from the park and you're in chopshop ville, particularly towards 7th street when you hit Skid Row. I grew up out here in SF, IMHO the dot-com boom played a big role, but the Mission Bay and South Beach area (which is where the park is) has drastically changed since the Giants moved there.

sharpie Jul 20 2005 04:43 PM

Those chopshops got nothing on the Shea chopshops.

Spacemans Bong Jul 20 2005 05:18 PM

I wouldn't disagree. But the area wasn't that hot before the Giants moved in. It wasn't a flat out no-go area like the South Bronx in the 80s or the area around Candlestick Park, but it wasn't the world's best place to walk around at night.

Nymr83 Jul 21 2005 01:01 AM

]Is there even anything in Willets Point? I have a mind, heart and a soul. You mean to tell me you didn't sell your soul to satan around game 6?

metirish Jul 25 2005 09:43 PM

IIRC the last time the Mets played at Coors Field Fran Healy raved about what the new stadium did for the area, he'll do the same this series because he's predictable, of course no numbers will be offered to back this up.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 25 2005 09:44 PM

Well, the area around Coors Field is very nice.

Spacemans Bong Jul 25 2005 09:54 PM

metirish wrote: IIRC the last time the Mets played at Coors Field Fran Healy raved about what the new stadium did for the area, he'll do the same this series because he's predictable, of course no numbers will be offered to back this up. Well they just built the stadium in downtown. Stadiums can have positive effects on an area. I've seen it with my own eyes.

metirish Jul 25 2005 09:57 PM

No doubt they have, I just posted this because of the last time the Mets played here Fran really raved about the area, like really really raved, for whatever reason that stuck with me, I've never been to Coors so I'll take his word, just the way Fran gets on certain points all series is to me a Fran-ism in a way.