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I Hate the Trade Deadline

Edgy DC Jul 26 2005 01:26 PM

Thanks Rotty for saying it. Now scream it. I've had butterflies for two weeks. Needs an acronymn. Metfans Against Deadline Deals. Great Mets of the sevenites, we have a better success rate bunting than dealing at the deadline. Shotgun Trades Are Rash Transactions. Some dumb crap like that. Maybe I'll start a website.

metirish Jul 26 2005 01:32 PM

Not sure if I've recovered from last years trade deadline yet. MADD START

ScarletKnight41 Jul 26 2005 01:35 PM

] Not sure if I've recovered from last years trade deadline yet. I still haven't gotten over 2001's deadline trades.

metirish Jul 26 2005 01:45 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 26 2005 01:46 PM

Yes, the Wendell/Cook for Chen trade, and the previous week Pratt was traded....a bad week indeed.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 26 2005 01:45 PM

It's not the trades I hate, it's how speculation about them turns everyone into the World's Worst Journalist and/or America's Most Outrageous Talk-Show Caller-Inner.

Elster88 Jul 26 2005 01:46 PM

I think the Mets should trade Heilman, Ishii and Glavine for Guerrero and Colon.

ScarletKnight41 Jul 26 2005 01:49 PM

Rick Reed for Matt Lawton wasn't a stellar deal either.

Rotblatt Jul 26 2005 01:59 PM

I'm fond of STAY PUT but I don't know how to make it work. Summer Trades Are Your Pointless & Unbelievable Trash Stay True--Avoid Year-end Proposals that Unnerve True-fans ?

seawolf17 Jul 26 2005 02:05 PM

I heard a moron last night with Richard Neer suggest the Mets -- in a deal that would "really fill holes on both rosters" -- deal Beltran for Cano. I had to shut off the radio before my ears exploded.

Elster88 Jul 26 2005 02:07 PM

STAY PUT Stop Trading Away Young Players U Turd

Edgy DC Jul 26 2005 02:09 PM

STAYPUT! Stop Trashing All Your Plans Under Pressure!

metirish Jul 26 2005 02:09 PM

Seawolf in all fairness Neer is the pitts, he all but said last night that the Soriano deal was done then caught himself and said this.."but hey maybe the Texas brass are listening to this show going no way are we trading Sori for Zambrano"...yeah Dick, like the Rangers are tuning in .

Elster88 Jul 26 2005 02:10 PM

="Edgy DC"]STAYPUT! Stop Trashing All Your Plans Under Pressure! STAY PUP?

Rotblatt Jul 26 2005 02:11 PM

Ooh, those are good . . .

Edgy DC Jul 26 2005 02:22 PM

You're right. STAYPUP sucks.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 26 2005 02:27 PM

Sexy Transaction Anxiety Yellows People’s Underwear Today!

Elster88 Jul 26 2005 02:29 PM

Edgy DC wrote: You're right. STAYPUP sucks. No it doesn't. Change pressure to tension?

Edgy DC Jul 26 2005 02:33 PM

OK!

Benjamin Grimm Jul 26 2005 02:36 PM

I'm only opposed to a deal if it involves guys like Milledge or Petit. I'd be happy with a deal that sends a starting pitcher for an infielder who can hit. I doubt that the Dodgers would do it, but if Glavine for Kent was on the table I'd give it a green light.

G-Fafif Jul 26 2005 04:28 PM

Like minds are thinking great on the subject of the trade deadline... http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807 Keep it in your pocket, Omar.

silverdsl Jul 26 2005 04:50 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: It's not the trades I hate, it's how speculation about them turns everyone into the World's Worst Journalist and/or America's Most Outrageous Talk-Show Caller-Inner. There's my problem with the time just before the trade deadline as well. Every random rumor, no matter how outrageous or unlikely gets dissected and discussed like it's the key to solving world peace. I just want to hear about trades that actually might happen or even better are really happening.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2005 05:21 PM

The Toaster Oven Society --- tell us about it when it actually pops up. I like Prince's use of "ragingly useless." Reading Prince's angle, it strikes me that the trade deadline could be likened to Super Bowl Sunday for chronic gamblers. It's Go All Out to Get Even and Save Your Ass Day.

seawolf17 Jul 26 2005 06:44 PM

G-Fafif wrote: Keep it in your pocket, Omar. I read that as "Keep it in your pants, Omar." I did a double-take.

TheOldMole Jul 26 2005 07:03 PM

It doesn't actually pop up in a toaster oven, does it? You need a regular old-fashioned toaster for that. But not too old-fashioned. Then you get to the kind where you have to open the sides.

Edgy DC Jul 26 2005 08:40 PM

My toaster-oven had a pop-up mechanism. I'm thinking Sammy Sosa-type thoughts. Sammy is living proof that this regime has some experience in the art of the non-deal. I'm putting my hope in that.

Willets Point Jul 27 2005 10:40 AM

<--- Symbol of the toaster oven society.

Edgy DC Jul 27 2005 10:52 AM

I Trade the Hate Deadline. I Tread the Date Headline

metsmarathon Jul 27 2005 03:16 PM

STAND PAT stop trading away new, dashing prospects, and teambuild!

MFS62 Jul 27 2005 07:03 PM

OH JOE SCHULTZ! Just read that neither Mike Cameron nor Lastings Millege are in the starting lineups for their teams tonight. Both of them for somebody? I hate trading deadline speculation, too. Make a freakin' trade for a power hitting lefty first baseman or get off the pot already. Later

smg58 Jul 27 2005 07:07 PM

Well, today would be a good day to give Cameron off, so I'm not sure I'd read anything into that.

smg58 Jul 28 2005 06:37 AM

And in the rumor mill, we have some papers reporting that the Soriano talks have heated up, and some papers reporting that they have cooled down. This time of year is better than Christmas.

Edgy DC Jul 28 2005 07:29 AM

Or worse than Super Bowl media week, depending on your perspective.

metirish Jul 28 2005 07:39 AM

Cameron to Baltimore again... ]Don't be surprised if the Orioles take another run at Mets center fielder Mike Cameron this weekend, offering reliever Jorge Julio as the bait. Several rival clubs have a higher opinion of outfielder Larry Bigbie than the Orioles do. One executive thinks that Bigbie, a lefthanded hitter, could be a lesser version of Paul O'Neill. http://www.sportingnews.com/experts/ken-rosenthal/20050727.html

seawolf17 Jul 28 2005 07:49 AM

Is it possible to get any lesser than Paul O'Neill? I think not.

Edgy DC Jul 28 2005 07:57 AM

Cammie got signed at the right time. HIs VoRP/$ is a good ratio. Jorge Julio? C'mon! The Mets need Brian Roberts and somebody's suggesting they get Jorge Julio?

metirish Jul 28 2005 08:02 AM

Yeah really, is it ever a fair trade when you trade a position player for a pitcher?

Edgy DC Jul 28 2005 08:08 AM

The thing is that just about every team in baseball could use at least a little more depth in their pen. You get it, and the more pressing problems are still hanging over you. Anderson Hernandez could well crap out if called up, but he's probably ready defensively.

Edgy DC Jul 28 2005 10:03 AM

Today is July 28 Transactions: New York Mets purchased Skip Lockwood from the Oakland Athletics on July 28, 1975. New York Mets purchased Gil Flores from the California Angels on July 28, 1978. New York Mets traded Bobby Bonilla and Jimmy Williams to the Baltimore Orioles for Alex Ochoa and Damon Buford on July 28, 1995. New York Mets traded Melvin Mora, Mike Kinkade, Pat Gorman and Lesli Brea to the Baltimore Orioles for Mike Bordick on July 28, 2000. New York Mets traded Paul Wilson and Jason Tyner to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Bubba Trammell and Rick White on July 28, 2000.

seawolf17 Jul 28 2005 10:31 AM

I liked Bubba Trammell. I remember seeing him as a Durham Bull when he was coming up through the D-Rays' system. He was a big dude; I thought he had the potential to be at least a solid fourth-outfielder type for a while, but he just vanished.

MFS62 Jul 28 2005 10:49 AM

Alex Ochoa was Gil Floores with a little more power. IIRC, Flores averaged about 1-2 homers per year for his career. Later

Rotblatt Jul 28 2005 01:05 PM

BP weighs in and decides that we should buy. ]Mets: The lower threshold for contention in the NL is reflected in a greater number of Buy ratings. The Mets have the star talent in place to win the East or snag the wild card; they have to do a better job of filling their holes on the right side of the infield, spots that are usually among the easier ones for finding talent. Trading both Lastings Milledge and Yusmeiro Petit would be a bit much, given the caliber of players on the market, but swapping one of them may be necessary. Upgrading first base or second base by two wins over two months could well be the difference between October baseball and October golf. Buy. I think we should upgrade using internal options rather than sow salt on our already razed farmland.

Edgy DC Jul 28 2005 01:15 PM

Agreeing here. But what are you suggesting doing specifically? Add Valent, Diaz, and Anderson Hernandez, I guess, and remove whom? The best way seems to be trying to send Graves and Williams to Norfolk until September and maybe deal Cairo to a team who wants him as the role-player he was meant to be for us, and maybe is paying more atteniton to his 2004 performance than this year's.

KC Jul 28 2005 01:19 PM

Soriano and Casey for money, a pitcher everyone bitches about, and a pitching prospect isn't the least bit interesting??? I read this all fast but, you have to at least be intrigued.

Rotblatt Jul 28 2005 01:45 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Agreeing here. But what are you suggesting doing specifically? Add Valent, Diaz, and Anderson Hernandez, I guess, and remove whom? The best way seems to be trying to send Graves and Williams to Norfolk until September and maybe deal Cairo to a team who wants him as the role-player he was meant to be for us, and maybe is paying more atteniton to his 2004 performance than this year's. Yeah, I keep getting stuck when I think about who we send down. We pretty much have to lose at least one of Anderson, Woody or Cairo. Williams is a given. I'd be fine leaving Diaz at AAA until September--that'll give us time to evaluate Valent at first and see if he's able to be the answer at 1B for us. Meanwhile, Diaz will get more time at 1B. As for 2B, I'm a bit torn between Lambin & Hernandez. Hernandez has been struggling recently and his OPS has dropped to .808, which isn't bad, but Lambin's at .881. Lambin was also drafted as a 2B, whereas Hernandez just started playing there this season, so I'd guess he's a little more polished than Hernandez. Neither has spent much time above AA yet, though . . .

Benjamin Grimm Jul 28 2005 02:08 PM

I'm okay with dealing Cairo and promoting Hernandez. Even if Hernandez doesn't work out, you still have Woodward.

Vic Sage Jul 28 2005 02:45 PM

there is no way in hell that Petit and Heilman buys us Soriano, much less Soriano + Casey. I don't love either of those guys but, that being said, if that deal is on the table, we should grab it. It'd make us a playoff team, with solid offensive production from every spot in the lineup and a solid starting rotation. While Petit may be one of our best prospects, that doesn't make him a great prospect. I don't see him as a can't miss blue-chipper, and Heilman has blown each chance he's been given to be a SPer, and is now a barely serviceable middle-inning guy. I'd much prefer Heilman to go than Zambrano. It's a moot point, however, cuz i don't see any GM, even one with John Hart's itchy trigger finger, taking Petit + Heilman for Soriano.

Edgy DC Jul 28 2005 03:06 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 28 2005 03:28 PM

]I don't love either of those guys but, that being said, if that deal is on the table, we should grab it. It'd make us a playoff team, with solid offensive production from every spot in the lineup and a solid starting rotation. Really? Casey's a gurantee? ]While Petit may be one of our best prospects, that doesn't make him a great prospect. I don't see him as a can't miss blue-chipper... Well, that's a subjective tag. Nobody's a can't miss, in the minors or the majors. But most sources will rank him around 40th in all of baseball. That's good. ]...and Heilman has blown each chance he's been given to be a SPer, and is now a barely serviceable middle-inning guy. He sure didn't blow his last one. And I think he's doing well and getting better. The Rocks' announcers said the batters who faced him were shaking their heads and wondering why he wans't starting. ]I'd much prefer Heilman to go than Zambrano. Agreed, in a gun-to-my-head way. ]It's a moot point, however, cuz i don't see any GM, even one with John Hart's itchy trigger finger, taking Petit + Heilman for Soriano. We'll sure see. I'm getting jumpy. The closer to the deadline we get without dealing, the bigger the deal I fear.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 28 2005 03:25 PM

I dunno. Seems like the closer we get to the deadline the cheaper Soriano gets if that truly is the apple of Omar's eye (in which case I wanna fire Dr. Joseph and his son, Dr. Jefferey Della Russo)

metsmarathon Jul 28 2005 03:28 PM

hell, if sori's price is dropping, try sending just kaz over. or maybe both...

Vic Sage Jul 28 2005 03:29 PM

hey, he wanted to deal Floyd for Sosa, so his eyesight is HIGHLY questionable. I'm really not advocating a deal for Soriano, because i don't believe that rumor has any validity. but i'm just not sold on Heilman or Petit. There are guys our there (like Dunn) i'd gladly part with them for. Milledge is another matter.

Bret Sabermetric Jul 28 2005 03:45 PM

Vic Sage wrote: Heilman has blown each chance he's been given to be a SPer. Willie Randolph: "Aaron, sit down. I need to be frank with you." Aaron Heilman: "Uh, yeah, sure." WR: "Aaron, you stink." AH: "Gosh, do you need to be quite that frank?" WR: "You're not getting the job done. I'm dropping you from the rotation." AH: "Really? But just a few starts ago I pitched a one-hitter, and Glavine's got an ERA like the number on a airplane, and basically no one outside of Pedro's pitching very well..." WR: "Let me decide who's pitching well and who isn't, okay, son? It's my personal judgment, based on my 43 games of managing on any level and sitting next to Mel Stottlemyre for years, that you're bullpen material." AH: "That's kind of harsh, innit? So I'm what, a closer now? A set-up guy?" WR: "You're middle relief. The slop guy. The blowout guy. Part of 'A Cast of Thousands.' Mr. Whathisname. Garbage time." AH: "I get the picture. Willie, what the fuck did I do to deserve this?" WR: "Watch your language." AH: "I can't say 'Fuck'?" WR: "Fuck yeah, you can say 'Fuck.' You can't say 'deserve.' I never want to hear that kind of filthy language again. Does Glavine deserve to have a job? Does Piazza deserve to bat cleanup? Does Victor Diaz deserve to be sent to triple A after a month of hitting the liviing piss out of the ball? Do I deserve this job? We just don't think in terms of 'deserve' around here, son, and the sooner you get that, the better you'll fit on this team."

Johnny Dickshot Jul 28 2005 03:55 PM

Pretty funny. At the risk of starting a war here, I thought you were of the mind that reliving on the big league level was a good way to break young guys in.

Bret Sabermetric Jul 28 2005 04:06 PM

Reliving what? Your youth? Heilman's youth is rapidly passing him by. Yeah, I don't object to long-relief as a training regime, but you don't normally trade someone you're grooming to be a starter when he's in the middle relief-stage, on account of his stock is at its lowest but you secretly know him to be more valuable than just a long-reliever. Mainly I was objecting to Vic's characterization of Heilman's failure in a starting role. Try starting a war again.

Willets Point Jul 28 2005 05:21 PM

Bring up Yusmeiro Petit now!!!

Johnny Dickshot Jul 28 2005 05:25 PM

I don't think they're going to trade Heilman. How about that?!?

Rotblatt Jul 28 2005 05:35 PM

Am I the only one who'd rather have Heilman instead of Zambrano? He's over 3 years younger, is cheaper, has better control and strikes out more batters than Zambrano. And he seems to have finally turned a corner this year. I mean, Zambrano's been effective for us this year, but I STILL don't think it's sustainable.

martin Jul 28 2005 05:41 PM

my copy of baseball prospectus 2005 has petit ranked at #15 for prospects, right behind kazmir, who i realize is no longer a prospect. the paragraph about him basically says his insane control and strikeout ratio is impossibnle to ignore. milledge is ranked 19. isnt he a cf defensive talent? i figure since he is stuck behind beltran for eternity, trading him would not be a bad idea. i think milledge and heilman for soriano would be great. although that leaves matsui in a pinch, and i still think he will turn it around. but i am overly optimistic.

Elster88 Jul 28 2005 07:32 PM

Rotblatt wrote: Am I the only one who'd rather have Heilman instead of Zambrano? He's over 3 years younger, is cheaper, has better control and strikes out more batters than Zambrano. And he seems to have finally turned a corner this year. I mean, Zambrano's been effective for us this year, but I STILL don't think it's sustainable. I dunno. I wonder if Heilman really has turned a corner. How many total starts does he even have? He's been fairly mediocre overall, no?

smg58 Jul 28 2005 09:36 PM

I can't help feeling that Soriano's the kind of guy we'll wish we didn't have in November, and there's a very steep limit to what I'd deal for somebody like that. The same holds for Casey. Are these guys building blocks, or obstacles? The important detail of the Sosa-for-Floyd deal was that it DIDN'T happen. I've got no problem with Minaya pondering all sorts of deals if he doesn't pull the trigger on bad ones. I'm hoping for something like that here. I'm not against dealing top prospects for top players, I just don't see Soriano being a top player in Shea Stadium. As for Heilman or Zambrano... there may be room for both. I do think the Mets need to make room for either Heilman, Seo, or Bannister in next year's rotation, and deal the other two. If they can find a taker for Glavine this weekend, great, but we can buy him out in the offseason if he doesn't reach 200 innings.

metirish Jul 28 2005 09:40 PM

I read today that the Reds probably won't be dealing any of the big players because they might have new ownership and the current guys feel that dealing Dunn, Casey or Griffey should be the new owners call.

Nymr83 Jul 28 2005 09:49 PM

after writing an apology to Zambrano thread i'd hate to see him traded now... my friend the Yankee fan thinks Soriano is god and belongs in the same sentence as Guerrero...i say the only thing the two have in common is a hispanic name. I'd rather keep decent starters around than trade for a 2Bman who can't get on base and isn't very good defensively plus is a free agent soon and will thus cost tons of $$ that are better spent elsewhere. I'm not totally against Soriano but if it takes Heilman AND Zambrano along with a B or better prospect i have to say no. I have gotten to the point of being lukewarm on Zambrano...i don't like him yet but he's shown some potential recently and i'd like to keep him in a Met uniform the rest of the year and see what he can do. Same thing with Heilman, sure he's had his failures but he's pitched well recently and isn't at the "peak" age yet. He should immediately be allowed to take Ishii's starts...but i said that months ago.

metirish Jul 28 2005 10:06 PM

A view form Dallas... ]Soriano does a lot, but he can't pitch Rangers need arms from Mets more than star second baseman 10:39 PM CDT on Thursday, July 28, 2005 Old baseball story: A sports writer approaches Tal Smith, then an exec in the Astros' farm system, about his reaction to a trade by the big club. Coming to the Astros from the Reds are Lee May, a power hitting first baseman, and Tommy Helms, a Gold Glove second baseman. Fans and media in Houston love it. But not Smith, who laments, "You never trade youth, speed and power in the same package." The package: Joe Morgan, postmarked for Cooperstown. Now, Alfonso Soriano's no Joe Morgan. Not as good defensively at second, and he's certainly not the leader Morgan was. Still, his numbers will be better. Soriano is one of the best offensive players in baseball, the kind of hitter who can carry a club when he's hot. No telling what he could do for the Rangers. But only if he's playing someplace else after this weekend's trade deadline. The Rangers simply must make a deal with the Mets. As you may be aware, Texas is a little short on pitching, a congenital condition, and only the Mets can cure it. New York has pitching depth. Hard to read that sentence without wincing, isn't it? Pitching to burn. Sort of like Jude Law going through girlfriends. Texas needs help now and next year and forever. Kenny Rogers is serving his sentence from "Maximum" Bud Selig, and who takes over while he's out? Victor Zambrano, maybe. He's had health and control problems, and Texas would be his third team in two years. But he'll just be 30 next week. He's got terrific stuff. One scouting report concludes that he "could be dominant" if he'd quit finessing hitters. Give Orel Hershiser the chance to see what he could do with him, anyway. And what else? Maybe Yusmeiro Petit, a promising 20-year-old right-hander. Or Aaron Heilman, 26, another right-hander who might eat up innings in the back end of the rotation. A position player probably comes in any deal. Word is that the Rangers are holding out for Lastings Milledge, the Mets' first-round pick in 2003. Baseball America rated him the nation's top high school player, a center fielder with excellent speed, a good arm and bat. Still, he dropped to the 12th pick of the first round, reportedly because of sexual misconduct allegations that were never substantiated and did not lead to any charges. More likely prospect: Victor Diaz, a 23-year-old corner outfielder who's shown some power. Are three of those pieces good enough for you? Soriano commands a pretty good return. He's probably the best impact player on the market at the moment, and the Mets could use him. He's popular in New York, where he still gets a lot of All-Star votes. The manager sure likes him. New York newspapers recently quoted Willie Randolph recalling when Soriano was just "a baby" with the Yankees. Claims he taught him how to play second. And if that's true, Willie, it's safe to say Soriano wasn't taking detailed notes. But he might play better for a manager who could stomach his occasional lapses. He's playing great as it is. Deal him now, while he's hot. He's not getting any cheaper. He'd cost the Rangers at least $10 million next year after arbitration, and that kind of money buys some good bullpen help or a nice bat for the middle of the lineup. And what are the Rangers saying if they trade him for prospects? Official affirmation that the wild-card race is over. No one in this organization is going to make up for Soriano's offense. Not now, anyway. And his absence would leave a big hole in the lineup. How do they replace him at second? Ian Kinsler is the easiest answer, unless the Rangers get some funny ideas about asking Michael Young to move back to second to make room for Joaquin Arias at short. Prediction: Young won't move again. He volunteered last time, but no one should ask. He's an outstanding shortstop, an unquestioned leader and relentless competitor, the Rangers' best player. He's the kind you build around. His current double-play partner isn't, despite all he brings. Not that we haven't been warned. Tal Smith's lesson about holding on to youth and speed and power is a potent one. Here's a better one: You can't win without pitching, and that's no theory. The locals are the official lab results. E-mail ksherrington@dallasnews.com

Nymr83 Jul 28 2005 10:32 PM

an interesting take on the potential trade but i think the texas newspaper over values Soriano.. Morgan he is not, nor is he Biggio, Kent, Alomar etc. in their primes. If they think they are getting zambrano, heilman, and milledge for a guy who is a FA next year they are kidding themselves.

smg58 Jul 29 2005 06:16 AM

Technically the Rangers would still have control of him this offseason, but it does seem likely that they would non-tender Soriano before ponying up $10M. So basically, they're demanding the moon for a guy they wouldn't bring back. And in today's rumor mill, we have some papers reporting that the Soriano talks have heated up, and some papers reporting that they have cooled down. This time of year is better than Christmas. Wait a minute, didn't I say that already?

Rotblatt Jul 29 2005 09:21 AM

Newark-Star Ledger Reports Blockbuster Soriano Trade Near ]Soriano deal still in works for Mets Friday, July 29, 2005 BY DAN GRAZIANO Star-Ledger Staff NEW YORK -- All those questions about whether the Mets would be buyers or sellers at the deadline seem to have been answered now, as they appear determined to land Alfonso Soriano before Sunday's non-waiver trade deadline. Yesterday found the Mets still hard at work on a deal that would bring them the Texas Rangers second baseman. As of last night, the sides were discussing a deal that would send right fielder Mike Cameron, outfield prospect Lastings Milledge and a pitching prospect -- possibly Yusmeiro Petit -- to the Rangers for Soriano and 23-year-old first baseman Adrian Gonzalez. Final details had yet to be worked out, and some of the names could change, but the Mets are working to finalizing the deal in some form before Sunday's 4 p.m. deadline. There also was word circulating yesterday that the Mets were one of the teams interested in getting Aubrey Huff from the Devil Rays, but a Mets official said there was no truth to it. The Mets are not out to grab whatever hitter they can get -- they like Soriano and are willing to stand pat on offense if they can't get him. http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/112261276696400.xml&coll=1 What makes this trade intriguing is the inclusion of left-handed 1B Adrian Gonzalez, one of the top prospects in baseball. Gonzalez was drafted #1 by Florida in 2000 at the age of 18. He was decent in low-level A at 18, then decent in high-level A at 19, then in AA at 20, but struggled on his promotion to AAA at 21, hitting only 5 HR after knocking out 17 each of the previous two years. Last year, he put up solid numbers for AAA Texas, batting .304/.364/.457/.821, and started to show a little power again, hitting 12 HR, 28 2B & 3 3B. This year, he's posting his best minor league numbers, batting .316/.379/.502/.891 with 13 HR in 285 AB. He's showing a pretty good eye this year (27 BB/38 K) but doesn't project to hit a lot of home runs. Matthew Pouliot at Rotoworld ranked him at 68th overall in the offseason and had this to say: ]A disappointing second half for Oklahoma has added to the doubts that Gonzalez will be a quality first baseman in the majors. I’m still fairly optimistic. Gonzalez managed to hit .300 while being fairly young for Triple-A, and he continued to show Gold Glove-type defense at first base. He figures to be good for 35 doubles and 15-20 homers per year in his prime. That won’t make him an All-Star, but there remains a chance he’ll have a career somewhere between J.T. Snow’s and Mark Grace’s. I'm not sure if those projections will change at all, given that he's currently on track for around 25 HR in AAA this year, but I'd take a 23-year old .300 hitter with 15-20 HR, 35 2B & gold-glove defense at 1st. I'm still down on Soriano, but the inclusion of Gonzalez makes me like this proposed deal a whole lot more. It also free up a spot for Manny, and we'd still have pitching to spare, were we so inclined . . .

Elster88 Jul 29 2005 09:23 AM

]I'm still down on Soriano, but the inclusion of Gonzalez makes me like this proposed deal a whole lot more. Me too, as it kind of cancels out the loss of Milledge. Milledge is blocked by Beltran anyway and we need a 1B for the future. I don't like losing Petit.

metirish Jul 29 2005 09:26 AM

From the Dallas Morning News... ]By EVAN GRANT / The Dallas Morning News BALTIMORE – The New York Mets sent a pair of scouts to watch Alfonso Soriano for four days this week. By the time the Rangers' 2-1 win over Baltimore ended a four-game series Thursday night, the Mets had seen all that Soriano can do. In four days, they saw him pound out homers, including one that tied the score Thursday. They watched him steal bases. They watched him make a mental error and a physical one. They watched him use his athleticism to make highlight-type defensive plays. In short, they got a complete scouting report. "But," Rangers manager Buck Showalter said, "so did we." The inference: Everything the Mets like about Soriano, the Rangers do, too. That's why both teams have lots of internal discussion to consider before Sunday's 3 p.m. trade deadline. Will the Mets offer the big package of young talent the Rangers want? Are the Rangers willing to give up the playoff chase, even though they are only four games out in the wild-card race? Thursday, the Rangers got the kind of performance from the entire team that still has them thinking the playoffs are realistic. Ricardo Rodriguez gave them seven innings – the kind of quality starting pitching they've sorely lacked this month. David Dellucci hit a two-out, ninth-inning homer that provided the winning margin. To trade or not to trade, it's a problematic debate. "I'm not thinking about it," Soriano said. "All I can control is how I go out and play. I'm doing everything I can." The Mets saw that. So did the Rangers. E-mail egrant@dallasnews.com

Rotblatt Jul 29 2005 09:32 AM

Me either, but it sounds like Petit's a "maybe" in this deal. If it's another prospect--say, Seo or Scobie or whomever--it sounds like a pretty good deal. I should add that both Milledge & Petit are ranked much higher than Gonzalez, at 16 & 28, respectively. Milledge, at least, is still at least 2 years away and we have no position for him, but Petit would probably be gunning for a spot in our starting rotation next March. Unless we move someone between now & then or buy out Glavine's option, there's no room for him. Of course, we might send him to AAA to start 2006, then trade someone at the deadline to make room for him. That would probably bring us maximum value for whomever we decide to move . . .

Johnny Dickshot Jul 29 2005 09:40 AM

Gonzalez doesn't appear to be an able replacement for Milledge in the least,

Elster88 Jul 29 2005 09:42 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Gonzalez doesn't appear to be an able replacement for Milledge in the least, What I meant was, if Gonzalez is one of the best prospect in the majors, then this deal replaces a prospect with a prospect, and the one we get isn't blocked by Beltran.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 29 2005 09:48 AM

Yeah but Milledge is a better player and presumably, he or Beltran can take a corner OF position. You could even move Milledge to first base if you wanted to (not suggesting that....)

Vic Sage Jul 29 2005 09:55 AM

]Bret: Mainly I was objecting to Vic's characterization of Heilman's failure in a starting role. my characterization of Heilman's production as a starting pitcher is based on facts. Yours is based on the wishful thinking that always looks at "could be" rather than "is". Here's Heilman's career as a SP for the Mets: 2003 = 2-7 / 6.93 ERA /13 GS / 64.2 IP/ 40 BB - 50 K/ .306 baa 2004 = 1-3 / 5.46 ERA / 5 GS / 28 IP / 13 BB - 22 K/.257 baa 2005 = 2-3 / 4.71 ERA / 7 GS / 42 IP / 13 BB - 34K /.247 baa His minor-league career was equally unimpressive. While he's certainly showed improvement, all i see is a guy that might eventually fulfill his predicted future of being a serviceable #3 SPer who gives you "innings". In fact, he's been more successful in the pen this year, than in the rotation. He's turning 27 in November and, outside of 2 games this year, may or may not have "turned the corner", but that corner has taken him from "bad" to "mediocre", not from "bad" to "good". Would i prefer him in the rotation over Ishii?Yeah. But thats because Ishii sucks, has sucked, and will in all likelihood continue to suck. At least Heilman has shown indications that he might not suck. This, in no way, makes him some indespensible component of our next pennant winning team, or makes him a valuable bargaining chip. And if we can get one of the more productive 2bmen in baseball for him and another young AA arm, It's hardly a deal i'd become enraged over. In fact, its one that would likely put is in serious contention for the division title.

Vic Sage Jul 29 2005 10:12 AM

i don't think the upgrade of Soriano over Cameron is worth Lastings Milledge and Petit, even if we get back Gonzalez, and such a move won't make a significant improvement in our offense this year. If you also consider what we'd be replacing Cameron's bat in RF with, versus what we're currently getting from 2b, and also what we'd be losing defensively, It might just be a wash. Unless, of course, Gonzalez is major-league ready to step in and be Mark Grace. I don't know that he is now, or ever will be. I'd sooner give up Petit than Milledge because i don't trust the likelihood of very young arms lasting very long. They don't much more often than they do. Position players are another matter, and Milledge has been able to use his 5 tools productively at every level. There's no reason he couldn't play a corner OF spot, maybe even next year, if FLoyd breaks down again. If it was Cameron, Heilman, Cairo + prospect (not one of our top 5), for Soriano and Gonzalez, I might take a shot. But not our top 2 prospects PLUS Cameron. no way.

Rotblatt Jul 29 2005 10:33 AM

]If it was Cameron, Heilman, Cairo + prospect (not one of our top 5), for Soriano and Gonzalez, I might take a shot. But not our top 2 prospects PLUS Cameron. I think I agree with you, Vic, but it sounds like they'll need at least either Petit or Milledge to get a deal done. I'd rather avoid the whole Soriano thing and just trade Zambrano or Heilman for Gonzalez. We get what most likely will be an upgrade this year at 1B and have filled a hole for 2006 without giving up any top prospects. Depending on who gets traded, we either bring up Seo or Bell to fill the void. Hell, if that worked, I'd then offer whomever's left of Zambrano & Heilman to the Sox for Shoppach. It's risky and Shoppach/Gonzalez might never pan out, but I'd take a shot at that. Tough market for catchers & 1B this off season--we'll probably have to make a trade to get anyone worthwhile anyway. Our infield would be brutally young next year, assuming we used one of our AAA kids at 2B, but so what? They'd be fun to watch and Cliff would get an army of younsters to carry his bags around . . .

Vic Sage Jul 29 2005 10:40 AM

]I think I agree with you, Vic, but it sounds like they'll need at least either Petit or Milledge to get a deal done. i'd still consider it if we had to substitute Petit for Heilman. but i don't want to trade Milledge.

Edgy DC Jul 29 2005 10:42 AM

Who are our two top prospects? With Humber on the shelf, that leaves Milledge for sure, but sources seem to be split among Hernandez and Pettit, with Bannister sneaking into the mix also the first half of this season. Hey, somebody fire up the prospect update thread.

Rotblatt Jul 29 2005 11:04 AM

I'd think our top two are Milledge & Petit, with Gaby Hernandez and Diaz somewhere in the top 5.

Spacemans Bong Jul 29 2005 11:39 AM

I've actually read that the Mets really don't want to give up any of their top prospects for Soriano. The Mets aren't getting Danys Baez either, as Chuck LaMar is asking for either Reyes or Wright. Yeah, sure. I know you got lucky once, dude, but there's a good reason why the D-Rays are so pathetic...once he gets a freakin' guy who he should trade at the deadline, he asks way too much for him.

Frayed Knot Jul 29 2005 12:11 PM

]Who are our two top prospects? With Humber on the shelf, that leaves Milledge for sure, but sources seem to be split among Hernandez and Pettit, with Bannister sneaking into the mix also the first half of this season. Hernandez as in the infielder from the Vance Wilson trade? ... I wouldn't think so. 'Closest to ready' is different from 'best prospect' and so Milledge & Petit would still be up top, with Gaby Hernandez next in line. Neither Hernandez nor Bannister are considered to have the upside of those three and so would be below them on the pecking order even considering that they might be closer to the bigs. P.S. Milledge is perfectly capable of - and may even wind up better at - playing a corner OF position. In no way should he be considered more disposable because his spot is "blocked" by Beltran.

Edgy DC Jul 29 2005 12:20 PM

Well, shee, of course I mean Gaby. I'm glad to see the Mets looking smart in the Wilson deal, but don't get crazy. All sorts of outfield positions will be available if Milledge proves worthy of one. All sorts.

Elster88 Jul 29 2005 12:38 PM

]I've actually read that the Mets really don't want to give up any of their top prospects for Soriano. I hope this is true.