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Mets, 1 to 700 discussion

iramets Apr 08 2007 06:15 AM

To keep that thread (relatively) pristine, I thought maybe we could keep observations about that list in this thread. (Admins--feel free to merge if you don't like this notion). I was surprised by the late appearance of two early Mets stars, Al Jackson, their best pitcher from 1962-65, and Ron Hunt, their best position player from 1963-66. Jackson debuted as the 22nd Met all time, and the 7th pitcher to be used, and Ron Hunt seems to have sat on the bench unused for his first week as a Met, appearing April 16th (the fifth game of the 1963 season which began on April 9th). In Jackson's case, the curiosity is what virtues did Roadblock Jones have to get start #2 ahead of him? And Hunt raises the question of his being considered early on (by Casey) as the second most promising rookie second baseman on the team (the immortal Larry Burright won the job out of ST). Ah, well, even Homer the beagle nods.

Kid Carsey Apr 08 2007 10:14 AM

I was wondering yesterday how people are getting their info. I took whatever was already posted, looked at box scores on retrosheet.org, and posted a new guy when he appeared. I didn't think about it until just now, but are we making sure (I wasn't) that multiple players in one game are being properly ordered by appearance and not just plucked from box scores and added.

iramets Apr 08 2007 10:19 AM

Could the people who have done multiple-player additions check with retrosheet.com, if you haven't done so already? You'll want to pull up the game in question, and verify by the PBP account who came in the game before whom.

Kid Carsey Apr 08 2007 10:23 AM

Yup ©

iramets Apr 08 2007 09:17 PM

Rick Herrsher is the Tom Seaver of Mets.

Gwreck Apr 08 2007 09:51 PM

Yes, I can confirm that every addition I did was dutifully checked with the two online authorities. When I finished up '62, I simply took '62 roster, crossed off the first 35 guys, and then ordered the last 10 by date. I went to the retrosheet PBP to confirm order when there were more than one on the same day. I even double-checked home vs. away games, because the starting pitcher (in a home game) would make his appearance on the list prior to the leadoff batter.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 09 2007 09:09 AM

I could easily post a list of every Met player's first game as a Met. Then you'd only have to go to Retrosheet to figure out the tie-breakers. I won't do it unless asked, though. I don't know if such a thing would be helpful, or if it would spoil the fun.

Kid Carsey Apr 09 2007 10:18 AM

That would be Dickshot's call, but I personally think we'll get more out of it by slowly building it.

Kid Carsey Apr 10 2007 08:45 AM

Has interest waned on this already or are we just taking a break? I can do five or six players a day.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 10 2007 08:50 AM

I just realized that the UMDB has already figured most of this out. For 1962, just go to this page: http://www.ultimatemets.com/metannual.php?ThisYear=1962 Scroll down, and you'll see the following: Players who made their Mets debut in 1962 (45) Richie Ashburn (April 11), Felix Mantilla (April 11), Charlie Neal (April 11), Frank Thomas (April 11), Gus Bell (April 11), Gil Hodges (April 11), Don Zimmer (April 11), Hobie Landrith (April 11), Roger Craig (April 11), Ed Bouchee (April 11), Bob Moorhead (April 11), Herb Moford (April 11), Clem Labine (April 11), Jim Marshall (April 11), Joe Ginsberg (April 13), Sherman Jones (April 13), Elio Chacon (April 13), John DeMerit (April 13), Ray Daviault (April 13), Bobby Gene Smith (April 13), Chris Cannizzaro (April 14), Al Jackson (April 14), Jim Hickman (April 14), Craig Anderson (April 14), Rod Kanehl (April 15), Ken MacKenzie (April 15), Jay Hook (April 17), Bob Miller (April 21), Harry Chiti (April 28), Dave Hillman (April 28), Sammy Taylor (April 28), Cliff Cook (May 8), Marv Throneberry (May 11), Vinegar Bend Mizell (May 12), Joe Christopher (May 21), Willard Hunter (June 1), Gene Woodling (June 17), Joe Pignatano (July 14), Choo Choo Coleman (July 16), Bob Miller (July 24), Rick Herrscher (August 1), Sammy Drake (August 1), Galen Cisco (September 9), Larry Foss (September 10), Ed Kranepool (September 22)

Kid Carsey Apr 10 2007 09:21 AM

I was hoping this was gonna help force me to work on something I've been working on for a number of years, but if it's already been done it's already been done.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 10 2007 09:27 AM

We can put the numbers in front.

iramets Apr 10 2007 09:46 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I just realized that the UMDB has already figured most of this out. For 1962, just go to this page: http://www.ultimatemets.com/metannual.php?ThisYear=1962 Scroll down, and you'll see the following: Players who made their Mets debut in 1962 (45) Richie Ashburn (April 11), Felix Mantilla (April 11), Charlie Neal (April 11), Frank Thomas (April 11), Gus Bell (April 11), Gil Hodges (April 11), Don Zimmer (April 11), Hobie Landrith (April 11), Roger Craig (April 11), Ed Bouchee (April 11), Bob Moorhead (April 11), Herb Moford (April 11), Clem Labine (April 11), Jim Marshall (April 11), Joe Ginsberg (April 13), Sherman Jones (April 13), Elio Chacon (April 13), John DeMerit (April 13), Ray Daviault (April 13), Bobby Gene Smith (April 13), Chris Cannizzaro (April 14), Al Jackson (April 14), Jim Hickman (April 14), Craig Anderson (April 14), Rod Kanehl (April 15), Ken MacKenzie (April 15), Jay Hook (April 17), Bob Miller (April 21), Harry Chiti (April 28), Dave Hillman (April 28), Sammy Taylor (April 28), Cliff Cook (May 8), Marv Throneberry (May 11), Vinegar Bend Mizell (May 12), Joe Christopher (May 21), Willard Hunter (June 1), Gene Woodling (June 17), Joe Pignatano (July 14), Choo Choo Coleman (July 16), Bob Miller (July 24), Rick Herrscher (August 1), Sammy Drake (August 1), Galen Cisco (September 9), Larry Foss (September 10), Ed Kranepool (September 22) Yes, that's what I've been using to confirm. But is the order correct? I.e., have players debuting on the same day been checked to see that they're listed in the order they entered the game? Even if so, we could doublecheck against retrosheet's PBP, and provide numbers. My experience with stuff like this, is that doublechecking will provide some error-catching.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 10 2007 09:53 AM

Yes, players that debut on the same day may be out of order. Double-checking against Retrosheet would be futile for the debut date, though, since that's the original source of this data.

iramets Apr 10 2007 09:56 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Yes, players that debut on the same day may be out of order. Double-checking against Retrosheet would be futile for the debut date, though, since that's the original source of this data. That's the least we would be checking. We'd still be providing numbers, and verifying Metly order.

Yancy Street Gang Apr 10 2007 10:02 AM

True. I have no idea if Rick Herrscher should really come before Sammy Drake. Looking at the August 1, 1962 box score would be required to verify who came first.

Gwreck Apr 10 2007 11:08 AM

Interest certainly hasn't waned for me -- I just haven't had time to do any lately.

iramets Apr 10 2007 11:19 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: True. I have no idea if Rick Herrscher should really come before Sammy Drake. Looking at the August 1, 1962 box score would be required to verify who came first. (I posted this in the wrong 1 to 700 thread at first) You're good, Yancy, on that one: from retrosheet: METS 4TH: WINE REPLACED COVINGTON (PLAYING 3B); CHRISTOPHER BATTED FOR DAVIAULT; Christopher singled to right; Ashburn walked [Christopher to second]; Kanehl flied to left; Neal singled to right [Ashburn to second, Christopher to third]; Thomas homered [Christopher scored, Ashburn scored, Neal scored]; BENNETT REPLACED HAMILTON (PITCHING); Throneberry struck out; Mantilla singled to left; HERRSCHER BATTED FOR COLEMAN; Herrscher reached on an error by Taylor (assist by Amaro) [Mantilla to second]; Debut game for Rick Herrscher; Hickman flied to left; 4 R, 4 H, 1 E, 2 LOB. Phillies 9, Mets 8. PHILLIES 5TH: BOB G. MILLER REPLACED CHRISTOPHER (PITCHING); CANNIZZARO REPLACED HERRSCHER (PLAYING C ); Bennett singled to right; On a bunt Taylor made an out to first; Callison grounded into a double play (second to shortstop to first) [Bennett out at second]; 0 R, 1 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Phillies 9, Mets 8. METS 5TH: Bob G. Miller grounded out (pitcher to first); Ashburn singled to center; Kanehl flied to left; Neal struck out; 0 R, 1 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Phillies 9, Mets 8. PHILLIES 6TH: Demeter doubled to left; Cannizzaro allowed a passed ball [Demeter to third]; Sievers singled to left [Demeter scored]; Wine grounded into a double play (third to second to first) [Sievers out at second]; Gonzalez singled to left; Oldis singled to left [Gonzalez out at third (left to third)]; 1 R, 4 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Phillies 10, Mets 8. METS 6TH: Thomas homered; Throneberry walked; Mantilla lined into a double play (third to first) [Throneberry out at first]; Cannizzaro struck out; 1 R, 1 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Phillies 10, Mets 9. PHILLIES 7TH: Amaro flied to center; Bennett struck out; Taylor singled to right; Callison grounded out (first unassisted) [Taylor to second]; 0 R, 1 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Phillies 10, Mets 9. METS 7TH: Hickman grounded out (third to first); DRAKE BATTED FOR BOB G. MILLER; Drake lined to shortstop; Ashburn lined to shortstop; 0 R, 0 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Phillies 10, Mets 9.

Gwreck Apr 10 2007 02:06 PM

So when I posted -- about a dozen posts up in this thread -- that I had dutifully checked both sources -- you didn't believe me?

iramets Apr 10 2007 04:03 PM

Just forgot.

Gwreck Apr 10 2007 08:13 PM

's ok. Just giving you a hard time.

Giant Squidlike Creature May 09 2007 03:40 PM

Y'all need this?