Apr 03 2007 10:48 PM
Special delivery for Mr. Hernandez!
Master Index of Archived Threads
4/3/2007 Schaefer Commentary
| Elster88 Apr 03 2007 10:31 PM |
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Ok here's my plan: How are you going to do it?
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 03 2007 10:33 PM |
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Hernandez gets extra points for the two RBI too.
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| OlerudOwned Apr 03 2007 10:34 PM |
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El Duque deserves more anyway because of his 2 RBIs. (Yeah, what he said)
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| Rockin' Doc Apr 03 2007 10:48 PM |
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Special delivery for Mr. Hernandez!
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| metirish Apr 03 2007 10:50 PM |
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I gave Glavine 4,I would think it's 5 for OHernandez.... Elster,will you be expecting an explanation for points given every game?..:)
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| Elster88 Apr 03 2007 10:55 PM |
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| Johnny Dickshot Apr 03 2007 11:08 PM |
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I disapprove of this fate-tempting with Wagner still to arrive.
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| Rockin' Doc Apr 03 2007 11:16 PM |
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Oh yee of little faith. Wagner laughed in the face of the Cardinals.
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| Elster88 Apr 03 2007 11:20 PM |
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I thought about that but didn't figure I was tempting fate since Dookie's day already in the books.
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| metsmarathon Apr 03 2007 11:21 PM |
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the win means nothing?
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| Gwreck Apr 03 2007 11:33 PM |
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True. I mean, you're giving out 4 or 5 or 6 points already -- what if Pujols tied that game up and we had to go to extras? C'mon. I'd have to hold all of you responsible. :) Seriously, I don't see how Hernandez can't get 6 for this game. The pitching wasn't necessarily a "6" performance on its face but when you add 2-3 and 2 RBI I find it tough to give him anything else.
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| metsmarathon Apr 03 2007 11:37 PM |
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my super-complicated uber formula almost gave him a 6. actually, about the only way he didnt get it was because there were some sip-worthy players who came in to releive him. there's only 10 points to go around, afterall.
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| Nymr83 Apr 04 2007 12:48 AM |
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not to me. since we're giving them team 10 points win or lose why should i care what pitcher happened to be in there when the Mets scored the go-ahead runs?
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| metsmarathon Apr 04 2007 09:33 AM |
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do you care what the score is when a hitter drives in runs? if so, wouldn't you also care what the score is when a pitcher allows runs?
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| GYC Apr 04 2007 09:38 AM |
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The fact that people aren't giving Hernandez a full 6 is mind-boggling. He went 7 innings, allowing 1 run, went 2-for-3 with 2 RBIs to widen the gap, picked a runner off, and was a part of 2 double plays.
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| Edgy DC Apr 04 2007 09:42 AM |
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What should I give for a 1-0 ten-inning no-hitter?
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| metirish Apr 04 2007 09:43 AM |
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This year I am going to try and score things a bit tougher,while Hernandez was great my loose criteria for giving 6 full points would be the starter going eight innings at least,if Hernandez had gone eight and left with a 4-1 lead then I give him six.
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| GYC Apr 04 2007 09:45 AM |
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Yes, a 1-0 10-inning no hitter is a 6. But if you're judging the best possible performances to a full 6 points, then you should judge position players the same as well. Very few games would add up to 10, then, too.
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| GYC Apr 04 2007 09:48 AM |
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I agree. I gave Glavine 3.75 for 1 run through 6-innings. If I was giving Hernandez points off pitching alone, it would have been around a 4.5 or so. But he also went 2 for 3 and drove in 2 runs, picked a runner off, and was a part of two double plays, one which cleared the bases of runners before Pujols came up and doubled.
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| Edgy DC Apr 04 2007 09:59 AM |
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I always judge the starting pitcher first, given him a score for a neutral sitation, and I gave him a 5.4 --- which may be miserly, but that's what I came up with. I then judge everybody else relative to the starting pitcher. I add up the total points which can be over ten for a victory, or maybe under ten for a loss. It can be well over 10 for a blowout. I figure out which divisor will reduce or increase my total to ten and I divide all the scores by that.
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| metirish Apr 04 2007 10:22 AM |
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I gave Heilman one point and I gave Wagner one point although Heilman only faced one batter but that was the game right there,still Wagner got throught his inning just fine,looking at my scoring I should not have given Schoeneweis one full point.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 04 2007 10:24 AM |
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It's okay to edit your vote if you want to, Irish. Voting for Tuesday night's game will remain open until Friday morning.
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| holychicken Apr 04 2007 01:05 PM |
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Hernandez looked good for 6 innings, Glavine really only looked good for 3. Hernandez got a lot lesshelp from teh defense. So for the pitching alone, I gave him more points. 2 RBIs just added to that.
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| metirish Apr 04 2007 10:26 PM |
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Should be fun scoring this tonight.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 04 2007 10:28 PM |
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I'm thinking that all my points will go to three guys: Reyes, Beltran, and Maine.
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| Nymr83 Apr 04 2007 10:34 PM |
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I'm basing my points on who helped out before the game got out of hand. that means 5 points for Maine (who went 5 scoreless before the offense even got involved), 1 for beltran who started the scoring, 1 for green making it 3-0, with 3 points left i'll give 1 to reyes for his homer and overall good number (turning the score from 7-0 to 9-0 isn't point worth), another to beltran for his great game, and the final point to loduca because i can't ignore 3 hits and walk in 5 plate appearences.
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| Nymr83 Apr 04 2007 11:43 PM |
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Elster, lets retitle this "voting commentary" without the date, i'd hate to see a new one every day
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| Rockin' Doc Apr 05 2007 07:15 AM |
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Nymr - "Elster, lets retitle this "voting commentary" without the date, i'd hate to see a new one every day" I agee. This should become the All-Purpose Schaeffer Voting Commentary thread.
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| metsmarathon Apr 05 2007 08:48 AM |
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so... we're going with a "vote the pitcher, and to the hitters go the scraps" strategy here?
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 05 2007 08:59 AM |
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I don't object to a new discussion thread for each game. I actually think it's a pretty good idea, but either way works for me. As Namor mentioned in the April 4 voting thread, attgig's vote is invalid and will be rejected unless edited.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 05 2007 09:01 AM |
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Most voters are giving 5 points to Maine and 5 to the hitters. Makes sense for a 10-0 game. Maine WAS the defense. There were several contributors to the offense.
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| metsmarathon Apr 05 2007 09:36 AM |
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what i mean is that it seems as if the voters vote for the pitcher on an absolute scale - "how much schaefer is a 7-inning 1-hitter worth? five? ok, i'll give him five" - and from there, they divvy out the remaining points to the relievers/defense/offense, on more of a relativistic scale. never (rarely) does the fact that the offense had a great game take away from the contributions of the starting pitcher, whereas the contributions of the starting pitcher regularly takes away from the contributions of the offense.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 05 2007 09:47 AM |
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Yes, that's pretty much how I do it. I start with the starter. Sometimes though I do adjust his point value down if there are other guys who deserve beer. I did that with Glavine on Opening Day. Generally, though, I think I do more of an offense/defense thing. Some games might have 6 points worth of defense and 4 of offense. Or 2 of defense and 8 of offense. (A 15-14 win, for example.) I don't try to reward every contributor. A guy who gets a lone ninth-inning double in a 7-1 win gets nothing from me.
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| metirish Apr 05 2007 09:52 AM |
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I'll be interested to see how Beltran fairs with the voting for this series,in the three games he went 4 for 12,had 6 RBI,had the great throw to home,made a nifty sliding catch to rob Aaron Miles of a hit in the game last night. Beltran drove in the first Mets runs Tuesday and Wednesday night,not a bad series.
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| Edgy DC Apr 05 2007 09:59 AM |
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I hear you. But last night, the batters' effort made the pitchers' effort as much of a luxury as vice versa.
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| Frayed Knot Apr 05 2007 10:10 AM |
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FWIW; There were exceptions though as PotG had starters Perez and Maine lower, and reliever Bell higher For positions players, while there are always going to be variations, there didn't look to be a pattern of PotG either consistantly under or over rating them.
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| holychicken Apr 05 2007 10:12 AM |
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My style is a bit more subjective than most, it seems. I really only like to vote when I have watched the game becuase my votes are based on the players who were, IMO (and I stress O), the players of the game. I feel like numbers wise LoDuca had a pretty good game. But a player of the game he was not. I could be being completely unfair to him, but all he did was get 3 meaningless singles from my perspective. It is not entirely his fault, but the game did not revolve around those singles at all. So if my votes every look completely whacky it might be because I have man-crush on Reyes or any other met at that time and unfairly award him points he does not deserve. And if you give me crap about it, it will be a slap in the face.
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| Edgy DC Apr 05 2007 10:33 AM |
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I won't give you crap, but Lo Duca also caught a third straight standout start. Somebody is working with those pitchers. Let me sing. Three hits and a walk and a run is doing his job well. Often hits are made meaningless because your teammates didn't support you, not because you waited until a meaningless moment to perform in zero pressure. In the first inning he knocks a one-out hit up the middle but then has to leg it out when Looper deflects it to first. Now there's a runner on for their three extra-base hitters to pick up and give the Mets the early lead. Beltran and Delgado didn't, but is his performance that much better if they did? His line single in the third came with two outs. It's not as big an opportunity for the Mets, but through three innings, three Mets have reached base and two of them are named Lo Duca. Again, he's stranded. But, as we see later, first base is scoring position when Beltran is up. Sixth inning: He, for the third time, singles --- this time with one out --- with Beltran coming up. Beltran homers, and a scoreless tie in the sixth inning is on it's way to becoming a 10-0 blowout. Huge. He gave the big bats three chances to break through and they finally did. In the seventh, he grounded out with nobody on with one out in a 4-0 game, his only failure And in the eighth, with the Mets blowing the game to 8-0, with a runner on second and one out, he walks. Boo. The guy is hitting .385. His pitchers have a 0.67 ERA after three games. He's caught one of two would-be base-stealers. He got the tag down on his one opportunity to nail a guy at the plate. Give him some beer.
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| holychicken Apr 05 2007 11:08 AM |
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As I said, it is not necessarily his fault that the game was not decided by his hits. He may have performed better than the number of points I gave him, but the game did not revolve around his good performance. To me, that hurts his "PoTG" rating. Although, in retrospect, i probably should have recognized him for being the player OB when Beltran smacked his first homer.
TBH, giving points to the catcher for calling a good game might be too complicated for me. Do most people take that into account? Should the catcher always get some kind of percentage boost to his score dependant on what you give the pitcher? Does he get points subtracted for poor performance of a pitcher? If it isn't based on the pitcher's performance I am afraid that my understanding of calling a game is not sufficient enough to separate the two. And, BTW, this is giving me crap! WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT THAT!!!?!?!?! :)
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| Edgy DC Apr 05 2007 11:17 AM |
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I just meant to give Lo Duca some love. He needs to get some from somebody over 20. If I throw 19 bones to ptichers, I've got to have one for their catcher. Maybe the ratio is more like 9:1. Probably somwhere between.
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| metsmarathon Apr 05 2007 11:35 AM |
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i've given loduca a total of 2.3 points thus far, making him my 6th highest ranked met. am i considered to be under 20? if so, then, um, thanks. can you buy me a beer? (i moved a year ago, and the liquor store i shop at now doesn't card me. it makes me sad. my old liquor store used to card me...)
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| Gwreck Apr 05 2007 11:37 AM |
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When voting, I try to consider what factors were the most direct and proximate cause of the victory (the win being most important). A "quality start" with a win for the starting pitcher is usually going to get 2-3 points, minimum. The first and go-ahead RBIs are always going to be more important than tacking-on. Hence, LoDuca (remember, he was 3-3 before a run was scored) and Beltran were most important offensive point-earners, with Maine easily the most important point-earner in the game. All of the additional hitting and quality relief, while nice, fall by the wayside in those sort of games.
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| Nymr83 Apr 05 2007 01:00 PM |
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i gave Maine 5 because he threw 5 shutout innings before the offense woke up. had the offense gone nuts in the 1st inning he gets less points for pitching with a huge lead the entire game
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| Rockin' Doc Apr 05 2007 01:27 PM |
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Nymr - "i gave Maine 5 because he threw 5 shutout innings before the offense woke up. had the offense gone nuts in the 1st inning he gets less points for pitching with a huge lead the entire game" Yupİ
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 05 2007 01:31 PM |
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That figures into it for me, too. If the score was 2-0 instead of 10-0, I might have given Maine a 6 for his 7 scoreless innings. The remaining points would have been split among the relievers and whoever contributed to the scoring.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 05 2007 03:12 PM |
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Voting for Tuesday night's 4-1 win in St. Louis will close on Friday morning: http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=6013
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| Nymr83 Apr 05 2007 04:34 PM |
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2 off days the first week is killing me
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| Nymr83 Apr 05 2007 07:56 PM |
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edgy, why do Burgos and Sele get points for pitching in a 10-run game?
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| Rockin' Doc Apr 05 2007 08:40 PM |
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Nymr -"2 off days the first week is killing me" That gives me time to get my KTE thread done before the start of the Atlanta series.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 06 2007 08:41 AM |
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Voting for Wednesday's 10-0 win in St. Louis will close on Saturday. http://cybermessageboard.ehost.com/getalife/viewtopic.php?t=6022
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| Edgy DC Apr 06 2007 09:16 AM |
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The Schaefer announcement at UMDB can be somewhat anticlimactic if it merely says Schaefer Mets Player of the Year Points Awardeded for This Game: I'm thinking maybe above that should a be an announcement of Schaefer Mets Player of the Game: Tom Glavine (or whoever) with a picture of the winner.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 06 2007 09:19 AM |
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Good point. I was thinking about that, and it will likely make most people who notice it say "Huh?" I'll probably flesh it out at some point. It should also contain some explanation of what a Schaefer Mets Player of the Year is.
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