Master Index of Archived Threads
Bad Refresh
| Edgy DC Apr 16 2007 12:44 PM |
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CNN.com reports that one person is dead and 17 injured after a shooting rampage at Virginia Tech. I hit refresh and 20 are dead.
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| HahnSolo Apr 16 2007 12:52 PM |
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I just read 21 dead and 21 injured. Unbelievable.
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| Johnny Dickshot Apr 16 2007 12:53 PM |
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22
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| Edgy DC Apr 16 2007 01:50 PM |
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Well, shit, that tops Colmubine.
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| seawolf17 Apr 16 2007 01:54 PM |
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Astonishing. College campuses are generally safe places, but unfortunately, they're also generally open places. Really, really disturbing and unsettling, especially for those of us who are in that environment.
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| Willets Point Apr 16 2007 02:06 PM |
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I know some Tech alums and also went to college in Virginia so this is close to home for me. Any indication if the gunman is a Virginia Tech student or from outside the college?
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| HahnSolo Apr 16 2007 02:44 PM |
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ABC now confirming 29 dead and an additional 17 being treated for gun shot wounds.
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| Edgy DC Apr 16 2007 02:48 PM |
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This may be a story where the facts (and probably a bunch of non-facts) are going to be broken by student blogs faster than by the electronic press.
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| HahnSolo Apr 16 2007 03:01 PM |
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If true, this is pretty damning of the Va Tech administration: "What happened today this was ridiculous. And I don't know what happened or what was going through this guy's mind," student Jason Piatt told CNN. "But I'm pretty outraged and I'll say on the record I'm pretty outraged that someone died in a shooting in a dorm at 7 o'clock in the morning and the first e-mail about it — no mention of locking down campus, no mention of canceling classes — they just mention that they're investigating a shooting two hours later at 9:22." He added: "That's pretty ridiculous and meanwhile, while they're sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed."
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| Edgy DC Apr 16 2007 11:44 PM |
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I don't know. Lone Hokie Met: Brad Clontz.
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| ABG Apr 16 2007 11:49 PM |
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33. Just unspeakable. It's also unfair to expect the Administration to get a message out to 40,000+ people, as if this monster in that environment wasn't going to find many to kill. People are somehow viewing the school like they would view a high school--instead, it's a large town or small city.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 17 2007 07:05 AM |
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I heard on NPR this morning that the shooter had an automatic weapon. He must have been either a "collector" or a "sportsman" enjoying his Second Amendment rights.
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 09:18 AM |
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Am I the only person in the universe who doesn't get what the focus on this story is all about? People die everyday, in far greater numbers than at Virginia Tech. Good people get killed instantly in car crashes, in domestic violence incidents, in sudden and tragic medical mishaps, and we don't know or care about their lives being extinguished. Now as a news story, I get why this is a big story--it's unusual, and all frightening from a "it coulda been me" angle--but you're not looking at it from a professional journalist's viewpoint , are you? You're looking at it as a personal tragedy, and that's what I don't get at all. If I were to relay to you the names of all the people who died in a hospital near me in Queens yesterday, your attitutude would probably (and properly) be "What are you bothering us with this shit for? Am I supposed to care or something? These people are random strangers to me." Which is my point. You care if 37 people are killed in Blacksburg VA yesterday, and it takes over the entire media for a few days, but if 370 people are killed in hunting accidents last week or 3700 people are killed in Darfur every month, you turn the page or flip the channel. Why are these random strangers so important and other random strangers who die so unimportant? I'm not looking to be provocative or a heartless prick or anything here. I'm just wondering why this story affects people the way it does. I just, as I say, don't get it.
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| cooby Apr 17 2007 09:25 AM |
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Uh, maybe it's because they are 20, and sitting in a schoolroom and not in a hospital bed...
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 17 2007 09:27 AM |
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It's normal to get sick and die in a hospital. Car crashes happen all the time. It's disturbing to be reminded that there are sickos out there who are willing to kill indiscriminately. And the "it coulda been me" aspect is a big part of the fascination with these kinds of stories. Even more so, I think, is the "it coulda been my kid."
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 09:29 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 17 2007 09:33 AM |
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Maybe, but I promise you there are 200 healthy college students right this second on campuses all across the country who will be dead inside of a year. Do you want the media to report each of their deaths as they occur? Probably not. You couldnt care less about them, and are happy to be spared the news of their deaths. Why is that? OE: That was directed at Cooby. Yancy, I've got a kid in college, and inside of a year, I'll have both my kids in college. I work in a college. It doesn't occur to me to think "That could have been me or my kid" with this story than it does any time I read about someone getting run over by a bus or dying of a Taco Bell burrito.
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| Kid Carsey Apr 17 2007 09:31 AM |
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Some people are born beyond reform. I didn't watch the news this morning because I don't like the way stuff like
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| Frayed Knot Apr 17 2007 09:33 AM |
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And, by extension, one of David Wright's brothers is a current student there. Shooter is a 23 y/o student who is a legal resident alien from Korea:
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| Edgy DC Apr 17 2007 09:35 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 17 2007 09:36 AM |
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Shit. This is going to be an issue in the presidential race now, and affect immigration policy and millions of lives. Tony Tancredo's numbers just shot up five points, giving him a total, I guess, of six.
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 09:36 AM |
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Why? Because of the "resident-alien" furriner thing?
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| Edgy DC Apr 17 2007 09:37 AM |
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Yup.
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| Sandgnat Apr 17 2007 09:45 AM |
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Although I guess it was inevitable, I love how people are turning this thing into a gun control debate. Guns were just as available long before all these school shootings started happening. Something else happened in society to create this trend/issue/whatever you want to call it. IMO, it has more to do with how people deal with anger and the lack of respect for authority. Whereas I don't see why anyone in the world needs to own an AK-47, don't tell me that more gun control would prevent this. You would be naive to think that if guns were completely banned that someone would not be able to get one if they wanted to. On the flip side, I could argue that a lot less people would have been killed in this and in other instances, if more people did carry. Every story like this makes me value my concel carry permit all the more.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 17 2007 09:53 AM |
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I think this should trigger a gun control debate. And it will. And it won't resolve anything.
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 10:03 AM |
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OTOH, it's pretty easy to imagine that if every student had been armed, and people started opening fire trying to nail the shooter, there might have been many, many more deaths yesterday. Nothing like allowing untrained, inexperienced people to have live ammunition while they're panicking for a wholesale slaughter, is there?
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| Kid Carsey Apr 17 2007 10:07 AM |
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People with pistol permits aren't untrained and inexperienced. Please don't turn this thread about a horrific event into a word game. Please,
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 17 2007 10:18 AM |
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Without any kind of gun control, though, anybody could have a pistol, including those that are untrained and inexperienced. I'll concede that people might as well be allowed to have registered pistols if they've passed a background check. And I'm not saying that hunters can't have their rifles. But I don't see any reason that anyone needs an assault weapon. Those should certainly be made as difficult to get as possible. And even if you can't absolutely prevent these kinds of events, there's no reason not to try. It's mind boggling that some people are more frightened of a gay marriage than they are of an assault weapon.
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 10:21 AM |
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I don't even know know WTF you're trying to talk about. You just want me to shut up? Say so. Or should I just take your word as the final authority that giving a few thousand 18 year olds pistol permits would make this a safer place?
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 10:29 AM |
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Meanwhile, the President of my university (a world class horse's ass) has distributed the following meaningless gibberish: "Virginia Tech will be having a prayer service this afternoon. Please take a few moments between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. to reflect on the tragedy and personal sorrow so many are feeling today and will feel for the months and years ahead. I am sure all who have been affected will be strengthened by each of our individual efforts. Thank you. " Gosh, I'm busy between 2 and 3 today. I hope these suffering people won't be too put out if I delay my reflections until about 10 PM--I'm going to take a bath, and I'll have a few minutes while toweling off, if that's okay. Also I've been reflecting with my friends at the Cranepool Forum this morning some, and I'm glad to know that my individual effort is so strengthening in your opinion, though for the life of me I can't imagine how this would work. Most of my friends seem to be happier the less reflecting I do on this tragedy, but maybe that's just me, you gigantic horse's ass.
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| Kid Carsey Apr 17 2007 10:31 AM |
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There's no upside to taking the stand you took this morning. If you don't How would you feel if someone who hasn't chimed in yet posted that his Some stuff should just be left untyped, I don't think any good can come from
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| metirish Apr 17 2007 10:37 AM |
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There are questions as to how the University responded to the shooting,a two hour window from the first shooting to when they sent out an email saying a killer was on the loose,gunman was South Korean.
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| Edgy DC Apr 17 2007 10:37 AM |
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Yeah, that's already covered in the thread.
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| iramets Apr 17 2007 10:38 AM |
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I wasn't being mean. I was wondering why YOU NOT CARING about the many deaths that take place in Darfur, and elsewhere, doesn't make you a mean person. I'm not saying you are, incidentally. But people die, and you flip the page, and that doesn't make you a bad person, does it? So why does flipping the page here make me one? I'd say that all the answers I've seen so far--suggesting that I have or should have some personal connection to these people, because I work in a college, or because I have kids, or because I went to college, or because I used to live one state over from Virginia, or some similar nonsense-- would actually make me a worse person than empathizing with total strangers who died a few continents away. And how would you feel if I told you that my family came from Darfur, and that I lost thousands of tribal members last month and I find your attitude here, elevating the suffering of Amrerican college students above that of my tribe's people callous in the extreme? Don't give me that personal crap. If someone suffers, I can extend sympathy on a personal level just as well as you can. We're not talking about people who are personally affected here, so please save that self-serving bullshit for yourself.
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| Edgy DC Apr 17 2007 11:57 AM |
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And on that note, the forum grinds to a hault for one hour, 16 minutes.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 17 2007 12:05 PM |
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Any word yet what Imus thinks of the shootings?
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| seawolf17 Apr 17 2007 02:38 PM |
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And we wonder why some people who used to be nice, contributing members of the forum don't come back here any more. What a fucking waste of time.
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| Centerfield Apr 17 2007 04:14 PM |
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I would say the most significant factor is the dramatic way in which these kids died. The public is a sucker for sensationalism...good or bad. In fact, bad is probably more compelling. If each of these kids had died in car accidents over the next three years, part of the reason no one would care (other than families) is because no one would know. It wouldn't be the lead story on CNN. Another factor, I would say, is because there are ways you are supposed to die. Car accidents...cancer...heart disease...dealing drugs in the ghettto...fighting in Iraq. Sitting in a classroom, or sitting in your office at the World Trade Center is not one of them. Events like this shock our systems...makes us question the security we live with everyday. The good news is we have incredibly short memories, and in a week or so, that security returns. Darfur, Rwanda, Haiti...these are all places people can die...it has no bearing on us. Virginia, Colorado, Oklahoma City...these are places that are supposed to be safe from that sort of thing. It's funny how people think. Yesterday a woman here at the office, who has a kid around college age, was talking about how the friends and family of the shooter should be held accountable because no one does this out of the blue...there are always some signs of trouble. Today, upon finding out the shooter was also a kid, that same woman talked about how awful it must be for the parents of the shooter, not only to lose a son, but to know he was responsible for such horrific acts. For me personally, it makes me sick to think about it. All those kids. All those parents who woke up yesterday morning not knowing what news the day was about to bring them. There is nothing worse in this world.
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| smg58 Apr 17 2007 07:00 PM |
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One of the victims was a regular poster on John Sickels' blog www.minorleagueball.com. Sunday the guy was debating with a few other posters about whether Cameron Maybin is still a top prospect despite the strikeout totals. Creepy, to say the least. It does put a perspective on things, though. We're all here because we enjoy baseball and enjoy talking about baseball, and life's too damn short to allow whatever differences in opinion we have (baseball-related or otherwise) to make things less enjoyable here.
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| ABG Apr 17 2007 10:02 PM |
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If only there were a symbol that you could navigate a little cursor towards and press a button on that would start an entirely different thread to debate gun control. Oh, if wishing made it so.
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| iramets Apr 18 2007 05:51 AM |
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A certain % of this thoughtful post is hard to read for Sarcasm Quotient purposes: "The public is a sucker for sensationalism.... It wouldn't be the lead story on CNN....there are ways you are supposed to die. " So it's a story appealing to sensational, gory-National-Enquirer-style freakishness, yet we're all indulging in it and assuring each other that it's perfectly fine to do so--if it takes a week or a month for the media to get over this story, that's fine? And if CNN wasn't having a slow news day--if, say, Iraqi troops had attacked Washington that morning, or Anna Nicole had popped out of her grave--then this story would get very little play and that would be fine, because we're all just looking for SOME damn lead story, dudn't much matter what. And the "ways you're supposed to die"--I didn't get that memo. Does this mean that if you die a freakish death--if a newborn baby gets microwaved, or if a fireman gets his testicles bitten off by a ferret--you get this sort of news coverage? Those people surely weren't supposed to die in those ways either. And I'm sure all the Rwandans and Darfurians are sitting around assuring themselves, "Oh, well, no reason to want the world to be horrified...we are, after all, third-world scum who have this horrible life-and-death coming to us." it just seems awfully callous and self-centered to me for people to be elevating this into a world-class tragedy just because you can identify with the helpless victims so easily. In most of the world, a kid would be delirious with gratitude to have even a week of attending Virginia Tech or eating dorm food for a month. Why are the VT students so tragic and the other snuffed-out-by-age-20-lives so utterly insignificent? BTW, if you're interested in viewing an extended discussion of this subject (I realize that very few are) here's one that goes on for a bit (I'm not a participant in this discussion, just an interested reader of [url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=416951.] it [/url])
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| Kid Carsey Apr 18 2007 08:53 AM |
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And the young man at the bottom of Mount Saladoc brushed away the 11. THOU SHALT NOT CARE
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| iramets Apr 18 2007 09:33 AM |
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...about non-American citizens 12. at least, not those outside of the middle-class. Remember, the more like you they are, the more their deaths matter!
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| Kid Carsey Apr 18 2007 10:10 AM |
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C'mon, I made a funny. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to a fund raiser for the dying in Xyjiknetac -
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 18 2007 10:27 AM |
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I don't know yet if I should care. Do they speak English in Xyjiknetac? What religion are they? What color is their skin?
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| SteveJRogers Apr 18 2007 10:32 AM |
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Just out of curiosity, are you sure that those who you think care way too much really don't give a darn about those dying in Darfur, Rwanda, Haiti, Iraqi, or the fact that 33 people may enter an inner city hospital's ICU and will never go home? I think the reason you think people care more is because this is the major news of the day, and therefore the radio and TV talk shows are giving people outlets to give opinions about it. I'm sure that if the gunman shot up an inner city McDonalds that they would have the same expressions of grief and outrage, but since that story would be lost in the shuffle of a national news cycle there is no outlet, except on a local level, for them to express whatever it is they want to express. It's a complete media driven thing that I think you are talking about. The media wants you to "care more" about this, probably in the "this could happen in YOUR SCHOOL!" kind of way or something, and say the usual stuff about how VA. Tech is "coming together" as a community. But yeah, in the grand scheme of things, this is the latest and it won't be the last. But, only because it is the big news story of the day, it seems that it's all you should care about. Or what the media thinks you should care about. Good corelation is the Jessica Lynch story. The media saw a young, white female POV and made her the focus of their coverage. Never mind that there was a black female with her, it was Lynch's story that the national media wanted you to care about. So yeah, I think your notion that more people care about this and couldn't care less about something else is a media driven notion, because of the fact that this is the topic du jour.
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| iramets Apr 18 2007 12:29 PM |
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Not sure I get your point, Steve. Yeah, this is media-driven, but I think we're smart enough here on the CPF not to get sucked into whatever the media is spinning at the moment to go blathering endlessly about random strangers just because that seems to be the cool thing to be doing at the moment. As a culture we don't care very much about a lot of things, including 99.99% of people dying violent deaths throughout the year, but when some deaths become a story, suddenly we're weeping copious tears and writing lachymorose eulogies. Sometimes we don't know what to do: yesterday, I saw the first few minutes of THE VIEW and Rosie didn't know whether to go all sentimental and platitudinous, or to turn the show over to Renee Sylie, as a visiting guest journalist, to explain to us poor dumb souls what had just happened for 6,000th time that day, or to have a regular gabfest, or to shit or go blind or what. Do you think the Mets should cancel a few games out of respect? Should we stop posting for a week? Should the news extend their coverage of these (mostly) non-events an extra hour? Should Chris Richardson give a shoutout to VT on AI? Should all the AI contestants make a speech about the tragedy? Is it right that anyone in America enjoy his life during such a tragic week? When will it be okay to smile again?
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| Rockin' Doc Apr 18 2007 01:08 PM |
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What happened on the Va Tech campus was a terrible tragedy. I have not sat transfixed by the continuous news coverage. In fact, I have continued on with my life, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I do care. I have compassion for the victims and their families. I care about the tragic waste of human life; the pain and suffering reaped by the misguided actions of one sick individual. Excuse me for caring, but I think that the world would be a far better place if more people truly cared about the pain, suffering, and misfortunes of their fellow man. I just don't care about the media hype that appear in the aftermath of such events.
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| iramets Apr 18 2007 02:57 PM |
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Sorry, I have a hard time sometimes distinguishinging your "Ira must silenced by any means necessary" mode from your "I made a funny" mode. I'll try harder.
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| Kid Carsey Apr 18 2007 05:08 PM |
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I think most shrinks would call me your enabler not your silencer.
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| metirish Apr 18 2007 06:04 PM |
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Some sick breaking news... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
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| Willets Point Apr 18 2007 09:35 PM |
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Dude had time to go to the fucking post office!?!?!
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| Willets Point Apr 19 2007 10:39 AM |
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They should not be playing that video on tv. This asshole is dead but some other homicidal/suicidal attention whore is watching and getting ideas.
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| metirish Apr 19 2007 10:45 AM |
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It's chilling and scary to watch.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 19 2007 10:46 AM |
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I agree. It IS news, though, so maybe they should only play about five seconds of it. If they're playing extensive clips (I don't know; I haven't been watching) then they're making him a TV star and encouraging others to do the same. The cameras avoid the idiots who run onto the field during a baseball game so as not to encourage copycats. I think the news media should follow that policy. NBC should have given everything to the FBI and released a very brief clip to the other media outlets.
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| Centerfield Apr 19 2007 11:28 AM |
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Sickening.
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| metsmarathon Apr 20 2007 12:18 AM |
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i really think the news media has lost its collective mind, as well as its collective ability to report the news, as opposed to sensatializing it and glorifying its villains. they should be showing the pic of the idiot holding the hammer making himself look like the tool, as opposed to the more sinister and effective pics of him with the guns. also, i really think its dirty pool to have broadcast the name and photo not only of the person who was wrongfully identified as a suspect in the first shooting, but also the poor girl who wrongfully fingered the guy. thanks, cnn, for making tehir lives even worse than they otherwise would be... and the way they ask every student they come across "so, are you going to stay at VT?" in such a way as they actually seem disappointed when the students say "of course, you idiot" and really, if i see another reporter ask another griefstruck student "gosh, do you ever think that you could've been killed too?" or "what did it feel like watching your freinds get killed?" i'm gonna fucking explode... jeez...
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| iramets Apr 20 2007 05:21 AM |
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As with Imus--YOU ASKED FOR IT! Well, maybe not you, mm, but there certainly is a market for this shit, and I contend that your fascination with it is what drives that market. I would contend that an initial reaction more like mine "(Hmm, that's too bad.Guess I'm not watching much TV or reading many newspapers until this glurgefest blows over--should be about a week until the news is back to normal. Damn shame, though") would shock the media into behaving decently, if practiced on wide enough a scale.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 20 2007 11:35 AM |
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Trying to wake up this thread...
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| Willets Point Apr 20 2007 11:38 AM |
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Thanks Yancy. That was weird. So, at noon today bells will ring 33 times at churches and schools (including the bells on top of my library building).
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| metsmarathon Apr 20 2007 05:10 PM |
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should maybe they not ring for the dude who did the killing?
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| Willets Point Apr 20 2007 05:31 PM |
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Your right it was actually 32.
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| iramets Apr 21 2007 08:16 AM |
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Ask not for whom the bell tolls, Cho. It tolls for thee.
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| SteveJRogers Apr 21 2007 07:16 PM |
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I was listening to a talk show, hosted by a guy named Jerry Doyle out on the West Coast, and he expressed outrage over the fact that just moments after the news broke, on CNN anchor Jack Cafferty (Not sure if its the former WB 11 guy) wondered how this would affect enrollment in the fall. Ugh!
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| Edgy DC Apr 21 2007 08:51 PM |
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Yeah, he's the old NY local guy.
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| Yancy Street Gang Apr 21 2007 08:58 PM |
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Was he ever on Channel 11? I remember him from Live at Five (with Sue Simmons) on Channel 4.
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| SteveJRogers Apr 21 2007 09:25 PM |
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IIRC he moved over to WPIX during the early WB11 days, teamed up with Kaity Tong for the 10pm newscast (I watched this quite often up in Fairfield) untill sacked for a younger anchor sometime in the late 90's. OE Jack's Wikipedia entry indeed has him there as I recalled, but doesn't give the years.
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| Edgy DC Apr 21 2007 09:41 PM |
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I'm recallin Imus' Jive at Five, and wondering (a) how anybody can be surprised by him now, and (b) how he can hang what he said on the influence of rappers.
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| metirish Apr 21 2007 10:59 PM |
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Watched a late night show Friday night and the host made a valid point about the decision by NBC to show the tapes they were sent,he pointed out that TV won't show a jerk that runs onto a field during a baseball game because they don't want to encourage other jerks to do the same,yet NBC had no problem showing this jerk all day.
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| cooby Apr 24 2007 07:17 PM |
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Tonight in our local paper was the obituary of one of the young men shot and killed last week in Virginia. Sal, don't you EVER tell me, or anyone else, who and when we should mourn again.
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| iramets Apr 24 2007 07:55 PM |
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Cooby, with all the respect in the world: I will write what I please, when I please, and I will decide what I'm going to respond to and what I'm going to ignore. If that bothers you, you don't have to read it. I don't tell people what to write or what to feel, and I expect the same from you. I also don't work for you (you can be very glad I don't), nor do I take my marching orders from you. If you want to persuade me to behave differently, or feel differently, I'm sorry but you're just going to have to treat that as an ongoing process, aided by civility rather than harangues. I'm sorry you're affected by this event much, much more deeply than I am, and I'm also sorry you don't seem to understand my point about the many violent deaths that occur 24/7/365 that don't get this kind of manipulative media coverage. These deaths don't seem to trouble you so much, but I'm still hoping I can heighten your awareness of the violence against people all across the globe that doesn't enter your consciousness or trouble your conscience. It troubles mine deeply, and I refuse to respond on cue when the media decides that one horrible event is to be elevated to grotesque proportions, and forgotten as quickly as another news cycle emerges. In a year, most people mow histrionically upset about Virginia Tech won't even remember the story ("Where did those kids get killed? A college somewhere? Was it in Pittsburgh? Arizona maybe?") and won't have changed their lives, their thinking, their voting--not a damned thing--and won't have done anything to prevent the next mass killing. That's what I mourn, but I don't ask you to mourn it with me, just to acknowledge that I have a perfect right to disagree with you, and to express my disagreement, and not to respond to your demands that I change my views because they differ from yours.
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