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IGT 04/30, Fishsticks at Mets

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 04:37 PM

FLA: Olsen (2-1, 6.23 ERA) NYM: Park (0-0, 0.00 ERA) Online lineups are a little tardy tonight in a quick check of yahoo and ESPN.

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 05:17 PM

Ramirez ss Uggla 2b Cabrera 3b Jacobs 1b Willingham lf Borchard rf Olivo c Amezaga cf Olsen p Reyes ss Lo Duca c Beltran cf Delgado 1b Wright 3b Alou lf Green rf Easley 2b Park p

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 05:27 PM

Delgado and Wright are utterly lost at the plate right now.

A Boy Named Seo Apr 30 2007 05:51 PM

Cue circus music.

Willets Point Apr 30 2007 05:52 PM

Things are getting Uggla.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 05:54 PM

5 runs all with 2 outs and bases empty

A Boy Named Seo Apr 30 2007 05:54 PM

The Mets look like shit. You know what I'm sayin'?

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 05:56 PM

inning (finally) over its 5-0 Marlins.

Willets Point Apr 30 2007 05:56 PM

Question you won't hear: "Omar, the Achilles Heel of this team is your failure to bolster the rotation over the winter and instead choosing to rely on aged, oft-injured has-been pitchers. As you watch things falling apart, what do you have to say for yourself?"

OlerudOwned Apr 30 2007 05:58 PM

Chan Holy Crap That Was Awful.

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 05:58 PM

That was painful to watch, and to listen to. Ya know?

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 06:07 PM

David, stranding folks.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 06:11 PM

Important to note that Chan didn't get the defense behind him.

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 06:12 PM

How many AB's for Wright do we wait before getting worried again? (please refrain from Omar type tv answers)

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 06:12 PM

Now, the defense bears no responsiblity for an Almezega homer.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 06:14 PM

Chan...

iramets Apr 30 2007 06:15 PM

Looks like "shut up" for CHP.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 06:16 PM

It's raining at Shea. Raining boos.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 06:16 PM

Is he going to take one for the team here? might as well leave him in and save the bullpen, unless you'd like to see Sele go 5 as an audition.

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 06:16 PM

That shot of Willie in the dugout grabbing at the phone was funny. I imagined to myself he was calling Omar and saying, "I told you I didn't want this stiff on my baseball team". I realize some of Park's demise tonight wasn't all his fault, but I think he sucks, and said so when they got him I'm sure.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 06:17 PM

yeah most of us railed on him when he was acquired, theres no 20/20 hindsight needed here.

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 06:24 PM

ny: >>>theres no 20/20 hindsight needed here<<< I'm not being hindsighted, I'm just saying so it doesn't sound like I'm needlessly piling on.

smg58 Apr 30 2007 06:26 PM

He was a no-risk pickup. That being said, the Mets had the option of holding Sosa out of yesterday's AAA game but didn't. I can't justify giving Park another start based on what I just saw.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 06:40 PM

If it gets too nauseating they're showing Springsteen concert on New Joisey public TV (if you happen to get that channel). Carol Miller, who took it from Tony Pigg from 10-2 on WPLJ, is hosting the between-song donation beg along with Dave Marsh, the slimy rock critic with the foresight to attach his career to Brucie's way back when.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 06:43 PM

="Kid Carsey"]ny: >>>theres no 20/20 hindsight needed here<<< I'm not being hindsighted, I'm just saying so it doesn't sound like I'm needlessly piling on. i know, i was saying that nobody can acuse us of 20/20 hindsight here

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 06:46 PM

Willets Point wrote: Question you won't hear: "Omar, the Achilles Heel of this team is your failure to bolster the rotation over the winter and instead choosing to rely on aged, oft-injured has-been pitchers. As you watch things falling apart, what do you have to say for yourself?" I know this a joke but of course the pitching for the most part has been excellent and more it is being done by young guys than old ones. The Mets' problem is that their offense sucks.

Rotblatt Apr 30 2007 06:53 PM

I actually like Park, but only as a reliever. He was dominant out of the pen in the WBC. He added a couple miles an hour on his fastball, which seemed to make a pretty big difference for him. Plus, he's got a pretty big L/R split, and using him out of the pen would allow you to minimize at bats against lefties. Still, I think calling up Sosa was the right choice here. Hopefully Willie will make the change. Shawn mutherfuckin' Green! Way to rake, Greenie!

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 07:00 PM

JOSE, JOSE, JOSE, JOSE... its 8-4 now

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 07:01 PM

fuck. rally over

vtmet Apr 30 2007 07:15 PM

Kid Carsey wrote: That shot of Willie in the dugout grabbing at the phone was funny. I imagined to myself he was calling Omar and saying, "I told you I didn't want this stiff on my baseball team". I realize some of Park's demise tonight wasn't all his fault, but I think he sucks, and said so when they got him I'm sure. He had a "perfect game" going with 2 outs and an 0-2 count on a freakin' pitcher...then dicked around until he evened the count up...then lost him with a single...and then proceeded to walk the bases loaded to get to Miguel Cabrera (one of the best young hitters in the majors)... How is this NOT HIS FAULT>?

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:16 PM

LoDuca is an enemy to all rallies right now. Johnny Dickshot wrote: If it gets too nauseating they're showing Springsteen concert on New Joisey public TV (if you happen to get that channel). Carol Miller, who took it from Tony Pigg from 10-2 on WPLJ, is hosting the between-song donation beg along with Dave Marsh, the slimy rock critic with the foresight to attach his career to Brucie's way back when. She played Clapton when Marley died. She's dead to me.

vtmet Apr 30 2007 07:17 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 30 2007 07:18 PM

runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs...Time to pinch hit for Wright with Glavine? (if I'm a little behind, I'm going by "Gameday" not by watching)...

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:17 PM

Listen, nobody tell Randy Messenger that Cover Boy can't hit anymore.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:20 PM

I'm hearing Wright booing.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:22 PM

Chit.

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 07:22 PM

vt: >>>How is this NOT HIS FAULT>?<<< I said some of his demise wasn't his fault ... shoddy D that inning, maybe it was the wind too. Can't see any reason to start yelling at me in CAPS, but whatever.

vtmet Apr 30 2007 07:23 PM

Eventhought DW signed that big contract, does that mean that he lost his "options"? Even Tatis can't be this bad....send DW down to the Pacific Coast League to feast on that AAA pitching to get his confidence back...

vtmet Apr 30 2007 07:24 PM

="Kid Carsey"]vt: >>>How is this NOT HIS FAULT>?<<< I said some of his demise wasn't his fault ... shoddy D that inning, maybe it was the wind too. Can't see any reason to start yelling at me in CAPS, but whatever. I'm not yelling...I was just screwing around...I was actually thinking at the time, wouldn't it be funnier than anything (after all the solid pitchers that the Mets have had over the years), for a scrub like Park to get the first Mets No-hitter...and then he had a meltdown...

vtmet Apr 30 2007 07:28 PM

Why is it a "curse" for the Mets to get a guy in scoring position with NO outs? It's almost a sure-bet that he don't have a chance of scoring...Start with 2 outs and nobody on base, and the Mets are one of the best teams at scoring, but the easy "ducks on a pond" just don't seem like they have a chance of scoring...

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:34 PM

Who are you quoting?

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:44 PM

OK, things happening. Ting run on deck. If only MIghty Wrighty could get a turn at bat. Beltan looking to go 5-5.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:49 PM

Alou swithced out of the game, even though he hits third as the tying run next inning. Johnny may not be able to go...

Kid Carsey Apr 30 2007 07:58 PM

They were speculating on the SNY broadcast that maybe Alou hurt himself on the fly (I forget who hit it) to left when he went up against the fence a little. I thought at the time he looked kinda funny not chasing down the bounce off the wall (or at least making some attempt) and let Beltran fetch it. We'll see.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 08:02 PM

Is that Keef with a cold in the booth? Carlos Delgado bunts until further notice in my world. Enough with these jive-ass defensive alignments.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 08:04 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Is that Keef with a cold in the booth? Carlos Delgado bunts until further notice in my world. Enough with these jive-ass defensive alignments. i'd have tried it there, he's not hitting well and a bunt single is as good as any other hit in this situation.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 08:05 PM

David, you're gonna make me cry.

Rockin' Doc Apr 30 2007 08:12 PM

Until Wright and Delgado start to hit a little bit, the Mets offense will continue to remind me of a donut.

vtmet Apr 30 2007 08:43 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: Until Wright and Delgado start to hit a little bit, the Mets offense will continue to remind me of a donut. Probably the best solution for that is to seperate them...both are trying very hard, but their individual slumps being back to back is having an exponential effect on the other's slump..

Willets Point Apr 30 2007 08:52 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: ="Willets Point"]Question you won't hear: "Omar, the Achilles Heel of this team is your failure to bolster the rotation over the winter and instead choosing to rely on aged, oft-injured has-been pitchers. As you watch things falling apart, what do you have to say for yourself?" I know this a joke but of course the pitching for the most part has been excellent and more it is being done by young guys than old ones. The Mets' problem is that their offense sucks. OK, you must be the one who is kidding. In just the first month of the season the offense has won nine games by 5 runs or more and seen to it to put the team ahead by enough to keep Wagner to only 4 saves in the teams 15 wins. And this is with key players slumping, imagine how dominating they will be when everyone is hitting? The offense definitely does not suck! Had Omar deigned to pry open his wallet for Matsuzaka and/or Zito last winter then it could have been an effective youngster like Perez pitching tonight instead of this hack Park.

Gwreck Apr 30 2007 09:04 PM

Willets Point wrote: Had Omar deigned to pry open his wallet for Matsuzaka and/or Zito last winter then it could have been an effective youngster like Perez pitching tonight instead of this hack Park. They bid $39 million for Matsuzaka and outbid the Yankees. The wallet was wide open. Passing on Zito was a good idea...or do you disagree? Who else would you have rather had? Gil Meche? You can fault Omar all you want but let's be fair and throw the names out there you would have rather him acquire.

Gwreck Apr 30 2007 09:11 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 30 2007 09:13 PM

Tonight felt like one of a dozen games I went to in the 2001-2004 period, where the Mets seemed to stay just close enough to keep one hopeful but not really close enough. Twice -- in the 3rd, with Reyes on first, and then in the 8th, with Reyes on 2nd it seemed like LoDuca was swinging for the fences. Not good. Alou is driving me crazy. You can't really knock a guy for hitting .340+ but he's slower than LoDuca, both on the bases and in the outfield. He looked just terrible on Wood's double. The GIDP killed our best rally chance (although D. Wright took a good hack at killing the rally too). Maybe I've been spoiled by Reyes' speed in evaluating runners, or perhaps the hustle we always got from Cliff, even when he was at 50%, but Alou just looks terrible in every aspect of the game other than smacking tons of hits. Frustrating as hell. Wright was indeed getting some boos and definetly was not hustling to first on his groundout in the 9th. Time for a day off (or two) for David. Seriously. Random: Oliver Perez has joined in at "Jose Reyes' Spanish Academy." Still lots of fun to see Delgado cracking up every time at whatever Jose is "teaching" that day. Apparently this was already Beltran's 3rd 4-hit game of this year. I generally like Dave Marsh, and while the career will always be inextricably linked with that of Mr. S., he has written some other fairly good stuff, IMO.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 09:13 PM

Mets are tops in ERA and third in OPS. Obviously neither of those exactly reflect the state of the team this exact moment. Hernandez, though, has outpitched Zito and Matsuzaka and that's almost true even if you merge his performance with Park's tonight.

smg58 Apr 30 2007 09:34 PM

Gwreck wrote: ="Willets Point"]Had Omar deigned to pry open his wallet for Matsuzaka and/or Zito last winter then it could have been an effective youngster like Perez pitching tonight instead of this hack Park. They bid $39 million for Matsuzaka and outbid the Yankees. The wallet was wide open. Passing on Zito was a good idea...or do you disagree? Who else would you have rather had? Gil Meche? You can fault Omar all you want but let's be fair and throw the names out there you would have rather him acquire. Don't forget that Freddy Garcia and Jason Jennings both rewarded their new teams by spending a chunk of April on the DL. Starting pitchers are badly overpriced right now, and Minaya has opted to look for bargains. Given that he got Hernandez, Maine, and Perez last year essentially for Kris Benson and Xavier Nady, he's not doing poorly in that regard. Yes I think it was a mistake to let Sosa pitch in New Orleans yesterday knowing he might be needed, but it's one game, and hopefully Park is gone after this.

Centerfield Apr 30 2007 09:37 PM

Did we ever find out if Alou was hurt?

Frayed Knot Apr 30 2007 09:42 PM

Yeah, he apparently banged an arm and cut his chin ... or something like that. Doesn't sound major.

Willets Point Apr 30 2007 09:56 PM

1. Gwreck I named the names of who Omar should have gotten. Personally I think he should have gone hard after both of them. The starting pitching was the Mets glaring weakness this offseason and these two pitchers only cost money, not prospects or experienced vets. Right now we have a situation where yes, Orlando Hernandez has pitched excellently but now he can't pitch at all when he's hurt and who knows how long it will be until he's back (and this is the second time he's been on the DL in basically the last two months of playing time). So until he returns the Mets have to scrape the bottom of the barrell. Meanwhile it raises expectations on Maine/Perez/Pelfrey to carry the load when they're not proven yet. Now you have the alternate situation with two experienced pitchers of prime age in the rotation, then Maine/Perez/Pelfrey can mature at their own pace and can be called on to step in when someone like El Duque goes down. Basically the rotation as-is is fine for best case scenario like the first four weeks of this season, but there's no contingency plan for other scenarios. And that could be the Mets downfall. 2. More importantly, no one else has addressed Johnny Dickshot's assertion that the Mets offense sucks and that's why the Mets lost tonight. Is everyone in agreeement with this evaluation? 3. If yes to #2, are you insane?

Gwreck Apr 30 2007 10:23 PM

The Mets were outbid by 12+ million on Matsuzaka but were the second-highest bidder. I find it near impossible to suggest that a 39 million dollar bid isn't going hard enough. As for Zito, I have no doubt the Mets could've gotten him rather than the Giants if they opened up the wallet further. I disagree with you about the logic of doing so. --- After reviewing the tape of the 3rd inning, I think the Mets defense is the proximate cause of the loss tonight.

Nymr83 Apr 30 2007 10:27 PM

]Personally I think he should have gone hard after both of them The Mets went hard after Matuzaka. It was BLIND bid, and given past bids a bid that should have seemed to the Mets likely to prevail.

vtmet May 01 2007 04:59 AM

IMO, Omar made the right moves pitching wise in the off season... There is no way in hell that anyone can justify giving a mediocre "ace" like Zito, "Elite Ace" type of money for that long of a period... You should have to "bid" $50 Mil just to get the right to talk to a player that has never played MLB baseball... The rest of the signings around baseball are head scratchers...Guys like Meche, etc shouldn't be getting paid what they were awarded in the offseason...just like Schoeneweiss shouldn't have gotten a 3 year deal... That's why the best strategy is probably to draft and stockpile as many good pitching arms as possible...

vtmet May 01 2007 05:00 AM

]Ahead of opposing pitcher Scott Olsen 0-2 with two out and none on, Park twice missed the strike zone, evening the count before Olsen (3-1) singled to center. Park suggested that allowing a hit to the pitcher bothered him and affected his next several pitches. He issued nine straight balls, loading the bases with walks to Ramirez and Dan Uggla that brought Miguel Cabrera to the plate. ] "But when you're walking guys and you're up and down, it tends to affect the defense," Randolph noted. "I'm sure that Easley probably misjudged his jump, but sometimes - and I'm not making excuses for it - you get up and down, up and down on your heels and all of a sudden something happens."

Edgy DC May 01 2007 05:39 AM

I thik the Mets certainly have contingency plans, and are probably deeper than most in starting pitching. It just didn't work out last night. From which I don't want to draw broad conclusions. Certainly, I'd rather draw them from the rest of the month. And John Maine --- rather than waiting to step in when somebody else goes down --- is leading the league in ERA. Neither Maine nor Perez were going to be anybody's contingency plans, as they were each out of options, and the Mets would have lost them if they tried to warehouse either.