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M*A*S*H Unit - Duque & Valentin

Frayed Knot Apr 29 2007 08:40 PM

Both were sent back to NY a day early to get checked on. - Valentin to get his knee that he seemed to tweak on Saturday checked out. - Meanwhile Ducky complained about "discomfort in his shoulder" which could be anything from nothing to long-term. The immediate problem is that he's scheduled to go Monday. If not him it would still be Pelfrey's regular day on account of the day off last Thursday, but after that things would get messy. Jorge Sosa is pitching best in N'awlins but he also pitched on Sunday while Humber & CH Park have been up & down. Obviously calling up any of them would only happen if it becomes a DL situation.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 06:57 AM

Sounds like Valentin's going to the DL for sure. He's apparaently considering surgery but first wants to try rehab so the upside is a month for him. The Zeffs pulled Ruben Gotay from the lineup yesterday. If his spring training assignment holds he'd be the 33rd No. 6 in team history, yet another record. And as a bonus become a Uni Swap for Jeff Keppinger.

metirish Apr 30 2007 07:05 AM

From Newsday... ] If Valentin is placed on the disabled list, the Mets are likely to call up infielder Anderson Hernandez, who is batting .208 with eight errors in 24 games for New Orleans. Ruben Gotay is another possibility, but he's not on the 40-man roster, which is a strike against him.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 07:12 AM

Ru-BEN! (clap clap) Go-TAY! (clap clap)

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:13 AM

Yeah, as I mentioned in another thread, the 40 shouldn't be a problem, as the Mets have a handful of long-term injured guys on the 15-day --- Martinez, Padilla, Sanchez, Williams --- disabled list that can be transferred to the 60-day. In fact, I think there's room even counting the injurinos.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 07:16 AM

Gotay's had a solid start at .256 / .367 / .439 // .806. I've also never seen a shot of him without a huge smile.

metirish Apr 30 2007 07:17 AM

If A Hernandez can't hit and now it looks like he can't catch the ball then it must be Gotay.

soupcan Apr 30 2007 07:18 AM

The NY Post this morning said: -According to Valentin's agent, 'It's nothing serious and that Jose is day-to-day. Where you get your DL info Dickshot? -Depending on what they find re: El Duque, he could still possibly start tonight. If not it looks like Park would be the choice (he of the 7.29 era)

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 07:19 AM

Snooze. Now only 25 cents!

soupcan Apr 30 2007 07:22 AM

Yeah how funny is that? Post goes to fitty cents as of today and the News responds by dropping its price. I love it.

metirish Apr 30 2007 07:27 AM

If you can believe this crap,when I lived in yorktown the Post was 75c,course I never bought the damn rag.

Centerfield Apr 30 2007 08:47 AM

Just read both. I don't ever remember reading such conflicting reports. One has the best case scenario at a month, with surgery likely...ony being delayed for contract reasons. The other has him day-to-day. Of course, the agent might be spewing crap just to make sure his client gets the minimum number of AB's so his option kicks in.

soupcan Apr 30 2007 08:50 AM

Yeah - The Times had a 'too early to comment' quote on Valentin from Omar and then the Post quotes his agent saying he was D2D. I took the agent comment with a grain of salt when I initially read it.

TransMonk Apr 30 2007 10:46 AM

Metsblog has Ducky to the DL with bursitis and Chan Ho getting tonight's start.

iramets Apr 30 2007 10:51 AM

It's a put up or shut up typa start, or series of starts, then. The Mets shoulda slotted you into the rotation out of ST, Chan Ho? Okay, show us we were wrong.

Edgy DC Apr 30 2007 10:52 AM

Not finding any confirmation.

soupcan Apr 30 2007 10:53 AM

I heard that on FAN as well. It's gonna come out that El Duque is in fact 48 or 49 years old. I mean - arthritis and bursitis? What's next - angina?

metirish Apr 30 2007 10:55 AM

] Associated Press NEW YORK -- Mets pitcher Orlando Hernandez was scratched from Monday night's start against Florida and placed on the disabled list with bursitis in his right shoulder. Hernandez was replaced by Chan Ho Park, who was recalled from Triple-A New Orleans. El Duque, 2-1 with a 2.53 ERA in five starts, told the Mets on Sunday in Washington that he felt pain in the shoulder and was sent to New York to see a doctor. Park was 3-1 with a 7.29 ERA in four starts with the Zephyrs, allowing 26 hits in 21 innings -- including six homers. Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

Centerfield Apr 30 2007 11:02 AM

Any word on timetable? Bursitis?

metirish Apr 30 2007 11:07 AM

] Whether you're at work or at play, if you overuse or repetitively stress the areas around your body's joints, you may eventually develop a painful inflammation called bursitis. You have more than 150 bursae in your body. These small, fluid-filled sacs lubricate and cushion pressure points between your bones and the tendons and muscles near your joints. They help your joints move with ease. Bursitis occurs when a bursa becomes inflamed. When inflammation occurs, movement or pressure is painful. Bursitis often affects the areas around the joints in your shoulders, elbows or hips. But you can also have bursitis by your knee, heel and even in the base of your big toe. Bursitis pain usually goes away within a week or so with proper treatment, but recurrent flare-ups of bursitis are common and can be frustrating. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bursitis/DS00032

Benjamin Grimm Apr 30 2007 11:28 AM

="Mayo Clinic"]You have more than 150 bursae in your body. These small, fluid-filled sacs lubricate and cushion pressure points between your bones and the tendons and muscles near your joints. Holy Crap! I didn't know I had any of those things! It sounds like the main reason Park would get this start is because of his current position in the New Orleans rotation. If he pitches and bombs tonight, they may well realign things so that Sosa can start next time around.

Gwreck Apr 30 2007 11:35 AM

Adam Rubin's blog also reports that Gotay is coming up too, although it's not yet officially announced.

metirish Apr 30 2007 11:41 AM

Gwreck wrote: Adam Rubin's blog also reports that Gotay is coming up too, although it's not yet officially announced. I hope this is true,can't wait to see what he's got.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 11:56 AM

I'm certain Gotay becomes a pinch ruunner and emergency defensive replacement for Easley. We can ill afford the O to get much weaker. Bad starts by LoDuca, Wright, and Delgado are killing us.

RealityChuck Apr 30 2007 12:13 PM

Wait a minute. Formerly good ML pitcher making a comeback after some disappointing years? Four letters in his name? Mets bring him up to replace someone on the DL? This year, it's Park Time! Ugh.

Frayed Knot Apr 30 2007 12:38 PM

Spring was not too kindly to you Chan, the bats one step ahead, and your stuff not worth the chance. Between the established vets and young turks, there was no gift for you, of Met pin-strip-ed pants. Now Chan Ho Park is starting out at Shea, all the Marlins batters lick their chops. Someone get the pen up by the fourth. 'cause I don't think that I can take it, and I don't think he can fake it, and we just might need to have him start again. Oh noooooooo ... Ohhh nooooooooooo!

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 12:40 PM

Hey FK respond to your email

Frayed Knot Apr 30 2007 12:48 PM

I answered yours last night -- no can do is the answer.

Johnny Dickshot Apr 30 2007 12:49 PM

uh-oh

Centerfield Apr 30 2007 02:00 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 30 2007 03:56 PM

I don't like how these reports don't have a timetable accompanying them. On Edit: According to the News, it's a partial teal of the ACL. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/04/30/2007-04-30_el_duque_goes_on_dl_replaced_by_park.html

attgig Apr 30 2007 03:56 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="Mayo Clinic"]You have more than 150 bursae in your body. These small, fluid-filled sacs lubricate and cushion pressure points between your bones and the tendons and muscles near your joints. Holy Crap! I didn't know I had any of those things! It sounds like the main reason Park would get this start is because of his current position in the New Orleans rotation. If he pitches and bombs tonight, they may well realign things so that Sosa can start next time around. yeap, either that or align Sosa to Pelfrey's starts so that if Pelfrey bombs out in his next start, Sosa comes to replace him, and Pelfrey goes to AAA.

Willets Point Apr 30 2007 03:57 PM

Centerfield wrote: I don't like how these reports don't have a timetable accompanying them. Liberal cut-n-runner!

Centerfield Apr 30 2007 04:07 PM

I never said I didn't support the effort, I just want to see some sort of plan.

Rockin' Doc Apr 30 2007 04:43 PM

See the plan? Who do you think you are CF, ambler?

Johnny Dickshot May 01 2007 07:39 AM

The Snooze today suggests that if Alou hits the DL with shoulder issues -- he hurt it diving in DC -- the likely callup is Carlos Gomez, since both Milledge and Ben Johnson are hurt.

Edgy DC May 01 2007 07:45 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: The Snooze today suggests that if Alou hits the DL with shoulder issues -- he hurt it diving in DC -- the likely callup is Carlos Gomez, since both Milledge and Ben Johnson are hurt. I knew I recognized that guy! Well, I guess we have our Met traffic injury of 2007 out of the way.

Centerfield May 01 2007 07:54 AM

Ok. No more getting hurt.

metirish May 01 2007 08:04 AM

Seeing Gomez would be exciting though.

Vic Sage May 01 2007 02:12 PM

2B was a problem area this off-season, with nothing in the Mets pipeline at this position, for the forseeable future. The Mets answer was to re-sign Valentin, expecting him to repeat his excellent season. And, despite a bad start, Valentin had come around and WAS giving us similar production. But he's out 2-4 weeks with a partially torn ACL. And, at his age, it might take longer than that for him to return to any level of effective production. There is still nothing in the pipeline (Gotay and Anderson are barely adequate AAA players). So... Question: Is there anybody in the minors with whom we can pull a "Kelly Johnson"? If not, is there any point in trading for a Ron Belliard type?

Edgy DC May 01 2007 02:15 PM

I don't think anybody expected Valentin to repeat his season. If they did, they wouldn't have made bids on Julio Lugo and such.

Benjamin Grimm May 01 2007 02:21 PM

Yeah, but they did abandon the 2B search immediately after Lugo slipped away. They didn't even talk to Marcus Giles. It seems anyway that in their view Valentin was the second best option out there, after Lugo.

Edgy DC May 01 2007 02:33 PM

No, there were others. And Giles wasn't available until after Valentin was signed. And I'm not sure Valentin wasn't a better option than Lugo. Whatever disagreements we may have over their behavior in the free agent market, I don't think they point to the Mets believeing that Valentin was going to repeat, more likely that they thought he could do welle nough for the money. Plus they got Easley, who isn't so bad.

Vic Sage May 01 2007 02:44 PM

Whatever the Mets thought or didn't think in the off-season, they went into the season without an answer at 2b other than "oh,well, lets resign Jose and hope for the best". If they didn't think he was capable of repeating, or at least approaching decent production, then re-signing him was irresponsible. And it wasn't like they waited till the last possible moment to re-sign him. As i recall (and my memory may be entirely faulty on this point, i'll grant you), they signed him pretty quickly after Lugo signed with Boston, without really exploring all other options... or at least that was how it seemed to me at the time. And Easley? He has sucked BHMC for most of his major league career. He may or may not have been an upgrade over Woodward, but he certainly doesn't add up to "oh, well... valentin has gone down but at least we have Damian Easley!" Anyway, i didn't bring it up to rehash what they did or didn't do in the off-season. I brought it up to explore the options about what, if anything, Omar should do NOW. Do we take this opportunity to address our long-term problem at this position by finding a Kelly Johnson in our system? Is there a trade for an adequate replacement available out there? Do we just ride it out with Easley/Gotay, with the hope that Valentin can come back in a month?

Edgy DC May 01 2007 03:11 PM

You're throwing red herrings here and I'm not sure why. Vic Sage wrote: Whatever the Mets thought or didn't think in the off-season, they went into the season without an answer at 2b other than "oh,well, lets resign Jose and hope for the best". Every signing includes a liberal dose of hoping for the best. Vic Sage wrote: If they didn't think he was capable of repeating, or at least approaching decent production, then re-signing him was irresponsible. Nobody said anything about decent production. Of course they thought he was capable of decent production. I imagine you do also. Vic Sage wrote: And it wasn't like they waited till the last possible moment to re-sign him. As i recall (and my memory may be entirely faulty on this point, i'll grant you), they signed him pretty quickly after Lugo signed with Boston, without really exploring all other options... or at least that was how it seemed to me at the time. He signed in November, not early, but not particularly late in the free-agent season. If you recall, the market didn't have a whole lot of attractive second-base candidates and a few were signed and they went for the bird in hand. I don't know what inquiries they made once Bret Boone became available, but I'd've liked to have seen an offer also. Vic Sage wrote: And Easley? He has sucked BHMC for most of his major league career. He may or may not have been an upgrade over Woodward, but he certainly doesn't add up to "oh, well... valentin has gone down but at least we have Damian Easley!" I'm not sure I meant to say that. He's a decent backup. Though he may have spent more time losing than any player in baseball. Vic Sage wrote: Anyway, i didn't bring it up to rehash what they did or didn't do in the off-season. I brought it up to explore the options about what, if anything, Omar should do NOW. Do we take this opportunity to address our long-term problem at this position by finding a Kelly Johnson in our system? Is there a trade for an adequate replacement available out there? Do we just ride it out with Easley/Gotay, with the hope that Valentin can come back in a month? I think observe (and maybe inquire) for a week or two. It'd sure be nice to solve the issue long-term as well as short-term. Remember that shortstop prospects like Coronado are also second-base prospects.

Rotblatt May 01 2007 03:44 PM

]I brought it up to explore the options about what, if anything, Omar should do NOW. I think Omar should definitely be targeting some 2Bs. I don't think he should make a move for its own sake, but if he find an even-steven deal to make, I'm all for it. My caveats would be: the dude should ideally be young enough that we could audition him as starter for next year; we shouldn't give up one of our top, say, 5 prospects for him, unless we're getting a player with similar or equal upside. We probably don't want to break in a AAAA guy, but there are a couple back-up dudes who might be worth trying to acquire: Mark Loretta (good OBP, zero power). Currently backing up Biggio at 2B & Ensberg at 3B. At 35, he doesn't exactly fit my "young dude" caveat, but he might be available for cheap. $2.5M this year, FA next year. Career line: .299/.363/.402/.765 OPS Aaron Miles (mediocre OBP, zero power). Languishing on Cards' bench. 30 YO. $1M this year, arb eligible 2008-09. career line: .280/.321/.358/.679 OPS Ryan Theriot (young, did a great job off the bench in 06). Currently riding a hot streak as starting SS, but officially he's backing up DeRosa at 2nd. 27 YO. Career line: .308/.381/.444/.825 OPS Chris Gomez (decent OBP, filled in nicely for B. Roberts last year, with surprising pop). Backing up Roberts at 2B. 35 YO, $850K. Career line: .260/.326/.360./686 OPS Jose Castillo (young, decent pop, K's a lot, poor OBP). Back-up utility man for the Pirates. Had a nice Spring, but has seen only 29 AB this year and has sucked in each of them (.329 OPS). 26 YO, arb-eligible through 09. Career line: .256/.299/.384/.683 OPS Jerry Hairston Jr. (atrocious 2006, but historically decent OBP, little pop, good speed). Currently backing up Kinsler at 2B. He's a FA next year and is 30 YO. Career line: .257/.329/.362/.691 OPS Omar Infante (young, decent pop, high K's). Languishing on the Tiggers' bench as a backup utility man. 25 YO, $1.3M, 2008-09 arb eligible. Career line: .252/.296/.388/.684 OPS Pretty slim pickings out there in 2B land, really . . .

Nymr83 May 01 2007 06:16 PM

can Scott Hairston still play the infield? Arizona has been moving him around and STILL not playing him for afew years now as he steadily gets older and less prospect-y.

Centerfield May 02 2007 08:48 AM

In the News, it says Valentin has elected to rehab (and is expected to take about 4 wks) instead of surgery. Valentin is candid saying he doesn't want to lose time because of his contract. The article suggests that surgery could wipe out his season, or cost him three months. My question is this, which is it? If it's 3 months, he should get it done. Come back for August, September and October. If surgery means he's done for the season, then I guess there's no harm in trying the rehab first. Does rehab ever work? It's a partialy torn ACL...as far as I know, I don't think they heal themselves.

MFS62 May 02 2007 08:55 AM

(Ducking) Ty Wigginton? Later

metirish May 02 2007 08:56 AM

From what I read Jose tried this before when with LA,wore a brace and said himself that he was never comfortable wearing it...if he were a soccer player with a torn ACL then he'd be having surgery,not sure what my point is there in saying that. Looking at your list Rotblatt are any of them big upgrades over what we have?

Rotblatt May 02 2007 09:39 AM

]Looking at your list Rotblatt are any of them big upgrades over what we have? No, in my mind, with the exceptions of Loretta and Infante--and maybe Theroit and Castillo. Easley's got decent pop (.405 career SLG), and has a pretty good eye at the plate, which allows him to have a decent OBP (career .328) despite not hitting for average (.251). Any of them would be an upgrade over Gotay, though, IMO, and they could act as a little extra insurance for Easley. I mean, if Wright or Reyes gets injured before Valentin comes back (God forbid), we'll find ourselves in a dark, dark place. Easley moves to short/third and Gotay to second, and Hernandez comes up to hit off the bench. U-G-L-Y, in my opinion. I'd prefer to see us build a little middle infield depth, preferably of the younger variety. Infante & Castillo fit that bill, and I think Loretta would be worth picking up too, based solely on his superior OBP. And veteran presense, of course. PECOTA projections (red means below replacement--includes defense): Easley: .245/.321/.388/.709 OPS Gotay: .252/.313/.395/.708 Hernandez:.254/.296/.344/.640 (PECOTA thinks his defense will make him just a shade over replacement level despite his limp bat) Loretta: .276/.341/.388/.729 Miles: .236/.284/.302/.586 Theroit: .272/.331/.360/.691 Gomez: .280/.336/.366/.702 Castillo: .264/.317/.407/.724 Hairston Jr: .255/.318/.350/.668 Infante: .263/.310/.422/.732

metirish May 02 2007 09:44 AM

Newhan can play second base,lets not forget him.

Johnny Dickshot May 02 2007 09:59 AM

Nah, let's.

patona314 May 02 2007 10:01 AM

maybe omar's thinking this spring was to use jose/damon/etal as a stop gap. isn't orlando hudson on the market next year?

Frayed Knot May 02 2007 10:16 AM

I want Ryan Theriot just for the best nickname: Ryan The Riot

Vic Sage May 02 2007 11:50 AM

]Easley's got decent pop (.405 career SLG), and has a pretty good eye at the plate, which allows him to have a decent OBP (career .328) despite not hitting for average (.251). A .328 OB% is NOT "decent", unless by decent you mean "below league average"... same is true of his "decent" pop. Easley would be adequate filling in here and there, or platooning against LHPs, but if he's our everyday 2bman for the next 6 weeks or so, we've got another hole in our lineup. Who is our top SS prospect right now?

Vic Sage May 02 2007 12:30 PM

here is our off-season thread on "Second Base", where we discussed these very issues. http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/5100/f1_t5154.shtml some interesting things there. They signed Valentin within 2 weeks of the end of the season. They pursued Lugo but when he signed with BoSox in December, Omar declared them "satisfied" with Valentin at 2b. We watched Barfield get traded to Cleveland, saw Loretta, Belliard, DeRosa and Aurillia sign elsewhere, and made no play for Vidro.

Willets Point May 02 2007 12:33 PM

="Frayed Knot"]I want Ryan Theriot just for the best nickname: Ryan The Riot I have a friend with that name and we called her The Riot, although it is actually pronounced Teary-Oh.

Frayed Knot May 02 2007 12:39 PM

Those damn French don't know how to pronounce anything! There's also an NHL player with that name (which is where I stole the nickname from).

Edgy DC May 02 2007 12:54 PM

The top shortstop prospect is probably Jose Coronado, who is scuffling at Binghamton. The top secondbase prospect is likely Hector Pellot, who is repeating Savannah and started slow but has come on of late. The Mets are pushing both aggressively.

Willets Point May 02 2007 12:58 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Those damn French don't know how to pronounce anything! I believe the pronounce anything as nim-poor kwah (n'importe quoi).

Rotblatt May 02 2007 01:46 PM

]A .328 OB% is NOT "decent", unless by decent you mean "below league average"... same is true of his "decent" pop. Easley would be adequate filling in here and there, or platooning against LHPs, but if he's our everyday 2bman for the next 6 weeks or so, we've got another hole in our lineup. Totally disagree. His career line isn't far off that of the average 2006 2B, which was 275 AVG/.333 OBP/.409 SLG/.742 OPS. His .143 IsoP is higher than that of the average 2B, and while yes, his OBP & SLG are a little lower than that of the average 2006 2B, it's not like having a slightly below average 2B = a "hole in our lineup." Unless you mean in the sense of replacing Valentin's bat, in which case, I agree with you. But in terms of carrying dead weight around, well, we won't be carrying around any more than most MLB lineups. Easley seems like a perfectly adequate interim second baseman, and it didn't cost much to sign him. So as far as I'm concerned, Omar did a fine job backing up Valentin in the offseason. Now that Valentin's down for a while, however, I think it would make sense to try and shore up our MI depth a little. and just for the hell of it . . . 2007 to date: Lugo: .242/.330/.326/.657 OPS Barfield: .154/.185/.218/.403 Loretta: .276/.341/.388/.729 Belliard: .298/.336/.375/.711 DeRosa: .269/.345/.513/.858 Aurillia: .284/.317/.411/.727 Vidro: .315/.351/.393/.744 Valentin: .279/.359/.471/.830 Easley (25 AB): .240/.345/.560/.905 I'd say the early returns are pretty good for us, both in terms of signing Valentin and picking Easley as a back-up. Lots of season left to play, obviously, but I don't think I'd take any of the above over Valentin ($3.8M) for this year, and the only back-ups signed in the offseason whom I'd pick over Easley ($850K) at this point are DeRosa ($4.3M), Vidro ($7.5M), and maybe Loretta ($2.5M).

Vic Sage May 02 2007 02:31 PM

]it's not like having a slightly below average 2B = a "hole in our lineup." You're right. But neither is a slightly below average 2bman "decent" unless (as i said) by "decent" you mean below average. To me, decent means "not great, but ok", ie, better than mediocre. so maybe we're just having a definitional dispute. And i'll take Barfield, thank you very much. Heck, i'll still take Aurillia or Vidro. The more Easley plays, the more he'll be exposed. Maybe it won't matter, if Wright is finally waking up and everybody else stays productive. I guess i'm just distressed because a problem we all anticipated (Valentin either getting hurt or declining) has happened, and i don't like our options ... neither in the short-term nor, more importantly, in the long term. I think we've got long-term answers at every position EXCEPT 2b and C.

Johnny Dickshot May 02 2007 02:38 PM

Just wait till Delgado needs some time off!

Vic Sage May 02 2007 03:02 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Just wait till Delgado needs some time off! Lets bring Carp up NOW!!!

sharpie May 02 2007 03:12 PM

Vidro has yet to play the field for Seattle and, judging from what I watched of him last year, that is a smart move by the Mariners. If Delgado needs time off, Green moving to first and Endy moving to right is ok with me, plus it improves our outfield defense.

Edgy DC May 16 2007 09:37 PM

How d'ya like him now?

metirish May 16 2007 09:48 PM

MFS62 May 17 2007 08:34 AM

Vic Sage wrote: ="Johnny Dickshot"]Just wait till Delgado needs some time off! Lets bring Carp up NOW!!! I know that was tongue-in-cheek, but FYI, Carp is on the DL with a broken finger. Maybe when it heals.....? Later

Vic Sage May 17 2007 09:02 AM

Edgy DC wrote: How d'ya like him now? um... i don't know what you're talking about. Go, Easley! You da man!