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Wonder if the Mets will add to the HOF closet...err display

SteveJRogers May 13 2007 09:48 PM

Hopefully before 2009 but I guess not. Last year I think was the best shot at doing so (Dave Johnson/Frank Cashen/Darryl Strawberry) but I'm guessing that there will be no more Met HOFers untill a brand spanking new HOF and museum is showcased at Citi Field. Its a shame in a way that the Mets never fully utilzed what they had with the HOF, but rather kept it hidden in what can best be described as a closet like space! Oh sure it really is a nice area, but honestly, is THAT the best the Mets can do to honor its HOFers? First of all, there is no easy access or signs pointing towards it at all, you basically have to know the way by heart (take the intersections of the loge ramps) or find the elevator that is only labeled "Diamond Club" There are busts of the Met HOFers but nothing describing WHY they are HOFers. For example, why is this man in the Mets HOF? The NY attorney who was influential in bringing NL baseball back to NY, a lifelong part of the Met family and the guy the ballpark was named for, but is any of that info listed alongside William Shea's bust? No. And finally, and most egreously, there are also pictures of the HOFers along the wall of the lobby, but there are no labels on any of them, so that means if someone asks who they are the person who was asked had better know the right answer For example: "Hey Dad, who is that?" "Well son...I'm not quite sure? Ed Charles maybe?" The correct answer of course is Cleon Jones, but the Mets are clearly banking on the fact that everyone who strolls through the lobby of the Diamond Club would know who Cleon Jones is and why he is considered an all-time great Met. I really hope there is much change in this area in Citi Field come 2009! Hell, I even have a problem with how the retired numbers are displayed! Again, they are (and always have since the early 80's when 37 and 14 were first slapped on the walls) banking on fans knowing exactly who wore 37, 14 and 41, as well as why there is a red 42 with a blue border and no pinstripes. But its the blind leading the blind if the person you ask has no clue about Met history, or has no knowledge of what number Casey, Gil and Tom wore About the ONLY thing the Mets ever did right in this regard is this: Thats the Agee homerun marker for the longest homer to reach the Shea seats out in the Upper Deck, Left Field. And sadly that will be no more after next year! Has the date, the player, his uni, it really is what you'd expect for something like that. Guess I needed to vent a little on the way the Mets have treated their past. Hopefully this is changed dramatically in 2009, but its a shame that it never happened at Shea.

iramets May 13 2007 09:55 PM

It surprises you that the Mets have done a balls-up job of so simple task as running their HOF competently? I have an idea: why not propose a statue of yourself for the Mets HOF, labelled "Steve J.Rogers--typical Mets Fan"?

Johnny Dickshot May 13 2007 10:00 PM

Any film exist of that Agee HR? Did it really happen?

SteveJRogers May 13 2007 10:18 PM

iramets wrote: It surprises you that the Mets have done a balls-up job of so simple task as running their HOF competently? I have an idea: why not propose a statue of yourself for the Mets HOF, labelled "Steve J.Rogers--typical Mets Fan"? No Bret, it doesn't surprise me the least. But just as you complain about shoddy fact checking in books, why can't I complain about shoddy HOF running. Especially since I see more competent HOF museums and galleries all over baseball. Philadelphia, Atlanta, Cincy, KC, Baltimore, hell even Monument Park is leaps and bounds better than how the Mets treat their shrine.

Nymr83 May 13 2007 10:30 PM

it is pretty shoddy i agree. if you're going to have it,make it accessible. otherwise why have it? is there even a sizeable thing on their webpage about it? i havent looked much

seawolf17 May 14 2007 08:58 AM

Steve's got a point. Why is it in such an exclusive place? Hopefully they remedy that and make it more accessible at Bob Murphy Stadium at CitiField.

Johnny Dickshot May 14 2007 09:28 AM

The Mets have always been reluctant and shitty stewards of their own history, which is why they ought to be thankful for people like us. I'd like to address Agee's alleged home run. FK, Ira, Mole and a few others out there I'm sure could address this: Any recollection of that ecvent when it happened? Or was this one of those things that was "remembered" a little too vividly? A shot to that spot is almost unfathomable.

Frayed Knot May 14 2007 09:40 AM

I don't remember it and apparently there's no existing video. On the other hand, Howie Rose used to talk about it all the time - even going back to his pre-announcing days when he was just a WFAN jock/Mets Extra guy. He either claimed to have been there or simply remembered it - even to the point of suggesting to the then still-living Agee in an interview that it should be acknowledged in some way which, I believe, is what set things in motion for the marker that's up there now. Only problem was that, because there was no visual evidence, they could never be sure where exactly to mark it - although Agee claimed; "I know where it landed". So the bottom line seems to be that the shot did indeed happen, and that the marker is at least a good approximation of the real spot.

soupcan May 14 2007 09:52 AM Re: Wonder if the Mets will add to the HOF closet...err disp

="SteveJRogers"]Hell, I even have a problem with how the retired numbers are displayed! Again, they are (and always have since the early 80's when 37 and 14 were first slapped on the walls) banking on fans knowing exactly who wore 37, 14 and 41, as well as why there is a red 42 with a blue border and no pinstripes. But its the blind leading the blind if the person you ask has no clue about Met history, or has no knowledge of what number Casey, Gil and Tom wore If I go to Fenway or Yankee Stadium or any other stadium other than Shea and I look at the retired numbers displayed at those ballparks, I may not know what player belongs to what number and why. Their names and statistics are not displayed along with the numbers. In fact when I see stadiums that have their immortal players faces and pertinent stats splashed all over their outfield walls (Atlanta, Los Angeles) I think it looks like crap. Displaying the numbers and nothing more is a classy and understated way of honoring an athlete. I like it and have no problem with it. If someone at the game is curious and wants to know who 37, 14 and 41 are and why 42 is displayed differently, they can ask me. Or they can ask the people around them. I don't like the idea of my team pandering to the casual fan so much. I understand that they want to draw people in to fill the seats. I tolerate the bush league inbetween inning activities and the scoreboard inciting the crowd to cheer because I realize that the team wants everyone to have a good time whether they pay attention to the game or not. But how about leaving the stuff that matters to the real fans of the game that truly appreciate it?

Johnny Dickshot May 14 2007 09:57 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't remember it and apparently there's no existing video. On the other hand, Howie Rose used to talk about it all the time - even going back to his pre-announcing days when he was just a WFAN jock/Mets Extra guy. He either claimed to have been there or simply remembered it - even to the point of suggesting to the then still-living Agee in an interview that it should be acknowledged in some way which, I believe, is what set things in motion for the marker that's up there now. Only problem was that, because there was no visual evidence, they could never be sure where exactly to mark it - although Agee claimed; "I know where it landed". So the bottom line seems to be that the shot did indeed happen, and that the marker is at least a good approximation of the real spot. See, this is what I was afraid of. Based on one fan who was there, who encouraged Tommie Agee to remember how terrific it was. I don't for a second doubt Howie's sincerity or even his eyesight but gee whiz. I'd like some indypendent verification.

Gwreck May 14 2007 10:42 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I'd like some indypendent verification. I would...but somehow I don't think that searching the NY Times archives for the story about that game is a permissible use of the company Lexis/Nexis account. I bet somebody out there has access, though.

Johnny Dickshot May 14 2007 10:45 AM

]somehow I don't think that searching the NY Times archives for the story about that game is a permissible use of the company Lexis/Nexis account. Sure it is. ] I bet somebody out there has access, though. Lousy cheapass org took it away.

Gwreck May 14 2007 10:56 AM

Here's [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=niJjDTjJmdUC&pg=RA1-PA174&lpg=RA1-PA174&dq=agee+%22upper+deck%22+shea&source=web&ots=UWuzJZJuX5&sig=63qHyYVQexc0NrAXDUobNbsJQaE#PRA1-PA174,M1]something[/url]. Found on the Google Book Search, from the book Only in New York: 400 Remarkable Answers to Intriguing, Provocative Questions about New York City, by Stuart Goldenberg of The New York Times: ]Though it is not actually retired, No. 20 belonged to Tommie Agee, a Met center fielder. It marks the spot where, on April 10, 1969, Agee's second-inning home run, one of the most prodigious in Shea Stadium history, fell out of the sky and bounced behind a third-row seat. Agee hit the 3-and-1 pitch, a low fastball, off Larry Jaster of the Montreal Expos. Calling it "one of the longest home runs ever hit in Queens," Joseph Durso wrote in The New York Times that the ball "bounced off the uppermost deck of the five-tiered Shea Stadium, 100 feet above the ground in a no-man's land of empty green seats in left field." It then fell back onto the field. Baseball clubs didn't estimate home run distances in 1969, but the left field foul pole at Shea is 338 feet from home plate, and the Upper Deck begins 95 feet above the ground. In later years, Dave Kingman launched balls into the parking lot, and Darryl Strawberry bounced a few off the scoreboard, but according to the Mets' press office, Agee's blast is still the only fair ball to land in the upper deck at Shea Stadium. Agee, a leadoff hitter who had hit only five home runs the previous year, actually smacked a second home run that afternoon, which just cleared the 398-foot sign on the center field fence. The Mets won the game, 4-2.

Gwreck May 14 2007 11:04 AM

P.S. - Regarding the distance of that homer, I don't think it was quite as far as some think. Using basic triangulation, we know that the upper deck was 95 feet above the ground. We'll add 15 feet from the bottom of the upper deck to aisle where it bounced. The foul pole is 338 feet from the plate -- we'll say that the homer bounced about 25 feet to the fair side of the foul pole -- which means the distance from home plate to the spot of the wall (on the ground) where the ball crossed is about 339-340 feet. Add another 30 feet for the wall-aisle distance. I estimate that homer to be about 386 feet.

metirish May 14 2007 11:41 AM

I sent an email to the Mets regarding video of the Agee home run..here is the reply.... ] Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, we do not have access to video of the home run Tommy Agee hit to the Upper Level.

Nymr83 May 14 2007 01:54 PM

Gwreck- but where would it have landed with no obstructions in the way? even if it was already falling when it hit the fact that it was 110 feet above the ground meant it had some more distance on it, depending on the angle and speed maybe as much as another 50-75 feet, but without video we'll never even be able to take an educated guess

Gwreck May 14 2007 02:15 PM

Nymr83 wrote: but where would it have landed with no obstructions in the way? even if it was already falling when it hit the fact that it was 110 feet above the ground meant it had some more distance on it, depending on the angle and speed maybe as much as another 50-75 feet, but without video we'll never even be able to take an educated guess Probably not -- but why would we want to know how far it "could" go? Seems irrelevant to me.

G-Fafif May 14 2007 02:27 PM

Three more or less contemporary accounts of the Agee HR: "Agee...hit two home runs, one of them an unbelieveable smash into the fifth (and top) deck in the left field corner, an unmeasureable shot of something more than 500 feet." --Leonard Koppett, "The New York Mets" "Agee unshackled himself from [a] long, lean winter in the second inning when Larry Jaster tried to slip the 3-and-1 pitch over the plate. Agee rocked it off the uppermost deck of the five-tiered stadium in left field, 100 feet above the ground in a no man's land of empty green seats." --Joe Durso, "Amazing: The Miracle of the Mets" [Note: Upper deck seats used to be green.] "Tommie Agee [hit] two home runs in one game for the first time in his pro career, including an unprecedented smash inot the upper deck in left...Ron Swoboda said, "That one today would have gone over the third fence and hit the bus in the parking lot if it hadn't hit the seats." --Larry Fox, Daily News 4/11/69

metsguyinmichigan May 14 2007 04:15 PM

Greg's too shy about tooting his own horn, but he has a number of great blog posts at FAFIF about the shoddy Mets Hall of Fame and who should be included. But to be fair, I've been to a bunch of stadiums and rare is the team that does a good job. The Cardinals -- which should surprise no one -- do a fantastic job. The White Sox USED to have a really cool Hall of Fame but turned most of it into a gift shop. The Tigers have some kiosks in the middle of the concourse for each era, and the Phillies have some plaques in centerfield. I know the Reds are working on something.