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Armando Revisited (split from IGT 5/29)

Edgy DC May 30 2007 09:59 AM

I think all closers on teams that are up or down by ten or more games have an advantage in the frustation department over closers on teams that are dogfighting year-in year-out for a post-season spot.

Centerfield May 30 2007 02:01 PM

I really don't know why it seems like Benitez sucks so bad. Looking at his stats, he is 9 of 11 in save opportunities...his only blown saves coming against the Mets. And for those who say he can't handle pitching against his old team, prior to these last two games, he was 14 of 15 in saves with a 1.42 ERA.

Willets Point May 30 2007 02:10 PM

Maybe it's just that when he sucks he sucks in a big way.

Edgy DC May 30 2007 02:10 PM

I imagine no pitcher had ever done as well against his former team as Armando in 2004. G GS CG SHO GF SV Op IP H BFP HR R ER BB IB SO SH SF WP HBP BK 2B 3B GDP ROE W L ERA 12 0 0 0 12 11 11 13.1 4 44 1 1 1 0 0 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.68

Centerfield May 30 2007 02:15 PM

It's amazing isn't it? You can post those stats but almost no one has any memory of those games every happening. All I'm hearing today is how Armando can't handle pitching against the Mets.

Edgy DC May 30 2007 02:23 PM

Mets team OPS against Mando: .250.

Centerfield May 30 2007 04:35 PM

And I don't mean to imply I'm somehow above this. I saw Armando warming in the pen yesterday and thought to myself "We can get to him." It's so strange. Anyway, how about the Mets against closers this year? Chad Cordero, Ryan Dempster, Valverde, the Rockies guy...all of them are our bitches.

SteveJRogers May 30 2007 04:46 PM

Centerfield wrote: It's amazing isn't it? You can post those stats but almost no one has any memory of those games every happening. All I'm hearing today is how Armando can't handle pitching against the Mets. I think the perception of Armando has changed because this is a different Met team than the one he faced as a Marlin in 2004. Not to mention the 06-07 Giants are drastically different than the defending champ Marlins.

seawolf17 May 30 2007 06:39 PM

Not only did I think "we can get him," I could actually visualize the loss. I woke my wife up and told her Carlos Delgado was about to hit the ball 600 feet. I definitely remember 2004 -- dude made us look BAD. But he's still Armando.

soupcan May 31 2007 07:26 AM

The problem with 'Mando I think is that he had a few blown saves in high profile situations while with the Mets. He got himself an undeserved choker reputation because of those, and then every save after that that he blew (even thoughh there weren't many) were 'big' games. Ignoring the fact of course that any blown save is usually a story because they don't happen nearly as often as a save When he did and does close out a game successfuly no one cares because that's what he's supposed to do. Does the casual Mets fan even know that Wagner is 12-12 right now?

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2007 07:33 AM

What the casual fan doesn't know is that in their primes Mando was every bit the closer Wagner is, or than Wagner has been on the hill for several legendary big-game chokes for the Astros.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 07:35 AM

The only way to escape Mando's sitation is to be so far ahead or behind so as to avoid high-profile situations. ]I think the perception of Armando has changed because this is a different Met team than the one he faced as a Marlin in 2004. Not to mention the 06-07 Giants are drastically different than the defending champ Marlins. This is that shifting argument stuff. None of that has anything to do with the inherent character flaws he's accused of having because he's a choker who can't beat his former team or do well in New York or whatever. The Mets are doing well against a lot of closers. Stopping the Mets team from scoring a single run in the ninth with Jose Reyes leading off and the world's most prolific balk-caller umping first is no easy task for anybody.

Willets Point May 31 2007 08:34 AM

We probably should split off some posts for an "Armando Revisited" thread.

soupcan May 31 2007 09:19 AM

]We probably should split off some posts for an "Armando Revisited" thread. Do it. [/code]

seawolf17 May 31 2007 10:25 AM

Isn't that part of the dilemma of the modern closer, though? You fail four times over the course of a six-month season, and that's all that's remembered. Armando played in a big market, with some big blowups in big games... so those are going to be remembered. Some of us remember Wagner blowing up in Houston and Philly, but most folks didn't see those games, because they weren't always against the Mets. Part of Benitez' problem was what you saw the other night... he gets over-emotional. Things started to not go his way, and it always seemed like whenever that happened, he got too amped up and tried to throw 120 MPH. Problem is, he starts leaving balls flat out over the plate. Sometimes they get hit 500 feet, like Delgado did; sometimes guys swing through them; and sometimes guys get under them and hit weak fly balls. Those go in the "save" column, and they're largely forgotten. Most of the time, that's how it happens, which is why he saves 40 games a year. The blowups are just magnified.

Gwreck May 31 2007 10:29 AM

I'm convinced that adding to Benitez' problems was that during his heyday, the best closer...EVER was also in his heyday. Seriously. Many Mets fans, whether they'll admit it or not, have their view influenced by the constant media attention and praise associated with Rivera. The perception of him as infallible, I think, caused people to have less patience with Mets closers, probably with somewhat unfair expectations.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 10:36 AM

seawolf17 wrote: Part of Benitez' problem was what you saw the other night... he gets over-emotional. Things started to not go his way, and it always seemed like whenever that happened, he got too amped up and tried to throw 120 MPH. Problem is, he starts leaving balls flat out over the plate. Sometimes they get hit 500 feet, like Delgado did; sometimes guys swing through them; and sometimes guys get under them and hit weak fly balls. Those go in the "save" column, and they're largely forgotten. Most of the time, that's how it happens, which is why he saves 40 games a year. The blowups are just magnified. I just can't see how this distinguishes him from most other closers.

soupcan May 31 2007 10:41 AM

seawolf17 wrote: Isn't that part of the dilemma of the modern closer, though? You fail four times over the course of a six-month season, and that's all that's remembered. Yes it happens to all closers but for some reason Benitez is tagged as the biggest choker of them all when its just not true. Again I think its because he blew up in a few high profile games and just could never shake the tag. He's expected to save games so when he does it's no big deal. When he blows one, its headline time because of past 'big game' failures and the rarity of his blown saves. Same reason that Jeter is perceived as the clutchiest clutch player that ever swung a bat. He came through a few times in high profile situations and ever since then every time he gets a hit in a 'big' situation (and of course every time there's a RISP that's perceived as 'big') it just adds to the myth. When he doesn't get the 2-out RBI its no big deal because the odds say he won't but when he does - whooo-hooo Cap'n Clutch ccomes through again. ="Gwreck"]I'm convinced that adding to Benitez' problems was that during his heyday, the best closer...EVER was also in his heyday. Excellent point.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 10:46 AM

Mets fans would have a much more positive view of Armando if not for these three games. It started with this one, which was painful enough: http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6248 But then, these two, only six days apart, were the nails in the coffin. There was nothing he could do after that to rehabilitate his reputation: http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6402 http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6407

seawolf17 May 31 2007 10:47 AM

I don't know that Armando's the biggest choker ever, nor the worst closer ever. It's just that you seem to remember his games more, for whatever the reason. (Jeffery Maier.) And my comment about his over-excitability doesn't distinguish him from all other closers, but a lot of them, including guys like Mariano Rivera. Not saying it's fair to compare him to Mariano, but Mo is unflappable, completely emotionless on the mound, whereas Armando is stomping around with what my wife called his "angry bull face" the other night. That's going to make his foibles more prominent.

Frayed Knot May 31 2007 10:52 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 31 2007 10:57 AM

Benitez, seemingly more than any other closer, would get the "mental weakness" tag assigned as the reason for any game in which he wasn't virtually perfect. It was never a bad night with him, it was always that he "melted" or "couldn't handle it". Paul O'Neill works out a walk after a tough AB and everything else that happened afterward was due to a mentally rattled closer. But try this on for size - just one World Series later: - Rivera is handed a one-run lead but gives up a lead-off single ** and it's just so obvious that he lost it at that point ** - because then came the bunt which he threw away - then, after another bunt, he gives up a ringing double to Tony Freakin' Womack ... - and then Mr. near-Perfect control hits tiny Craig Counsell before serving up the eventual game-winner to Gonzalez I mean GEEZ, the guy is perfect all year and then - in Game 7 of the WS and with NYC's post-9/11 pride on the line - he faces 6 batters and gets only one of them out, and that's with two of those batters trying to make an out !! See how much fun it is when you pre-write the story and then twist the facts to fit the pre-determined conclusion?

Edgy DC May 31 2007 10:54 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Mets fans would have a much more positive view of Armando if not for these three games. It started with this one, which was painful enough: http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6248 But then, these two, only six days apart, were the nails in the coffin. There was nothing he could do after that to rehabilitate his reputation: http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6402 http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6407 Sure, but those two games came at the end of several weeks of other must-haves that he did close successfully. If he blew two of those instead, I think it'd change very little about the way he's perceived. Don't forget that professional writers have (1) blamed him for homers that John Franco gave up, (2) argued for his replacement by out-of-town closers that have worse track records.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 11:04 AM

Those last two games came against the Braves in the heat of a feel good (post 9/11) division race. And the other came in the first ever World Series game between the Mets and the Yankees. They were, without a doubt, BIG games. I'm not arguing that he should be demonized, or that he never did any good. But there's no denying that those we three three losses we all pretty darn awful. If he had saved those two games against Atlanta, but had blown games the previous week against Florida or Montreal, I don't think he'd be as reviled as he is.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 11:12 AM

And I'm saying his performance up to that point made that feel-good division race happen. He was a monster. A machine. A monstrous machine.

Gwreck May 31 2007 12:07 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'm not arguing that he should be demonized, or that he never did any good. But there's no denying that those we three three losses we all pretty darn awful. If he had saved those two games against Atlanta, but had blown games the previous week against Florida or Montreal, I don't think he'd be as reviled as he is. The 2001 games were tough (especially the first, as the Mets were poised to sweep that first series), but what has always stuck in my craw was: 1999 NLDS Game 4 1999 NLCS Game 6 2000 NLDS Game 2 2000 WS Game 1 I hate to say it, but "when it mattered most," Benitez didn't get it done. He had several other good outings, but he was 3-for-7 in post season saves over a 2 year period.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 12:16 PM

And I'm saying, for any team in a tight race, year in-year out, like the Mets of that era were, it was always when it mattered most. It's the nature of the job and of the team.

soupcan May 31 2007 12:20 PM

If I recall correctly CF compared 'Mando's stats in postseason games to to his peers and 'Mando came out right in line with everyone else.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 12:24 PM

And I just looked at the six consecutive saves he had in September 2001 prior to his 9/23 meltdown against the Braves at Shea. None of them were saves of one-run games. Three or four of them (I had trouble manipulating my fingers and typing at the same time) were actually games where he pitched the 9th inning with a three-run lead. I guess my problem is that I don't think that the modern 9th-inning closer is that important a role. He's in a no-win situation where when he succeeds it's not a big deal. (He just has to pitch one inning, and often he can even give up a run or two.) But when he fails he's the guy who spoiled everything. He's the guy who turned a win into a loss. Everything was going fine until this schmuck came into the game. It's not fair, but it's how it is. Years ago, a reliever like Tug McGraw would usually come into a game when there was trouble, when there was a fire to put out. If they didn't succeed, they weren't usually vilified, because it was somebody else who made the mess that they weren't able to clean up. But closers aren't "firemen" anymore, they're specialists. And once they get into trouble, they have to pitch out of it themselves. With Benitez at least, sometimes Franco, if available, would come in if Armando was in trouble. But in most of Wagner's failures last season, he was left on the mound no matter how poorly he was pitching and wouldn't come out of the game until things were out of hand. If Joe Smith, for example, lets his first two or three batters get on base, he'll be removed. Billy Wagner doesn't have that luxury. I'd love to see a manager start using his bullpen the way it was done before Tony LaRussa and Dennis Eckersley changed everything. When Frisella could bail out McGraw, or McGraw could bail out Frisella. Same with McDowell and Orosco. I thought that Bobby Valentine would do that with Franco and Benitez, but he (usually) went along with the 8th-inning/9th-inning specialist nonsense that's now become the rule.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 12:29 PM

When Was Benitez ever lifted for Franco with the game still in hand after he became the closer? And how can we say "It's no fair, but that's the way it is"? This is our own judgment we're talking about.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 12:33 PM

I don't know. I seem to remember it happening, but I don't know the specific dates, and my memory may be wrong. My judgment is that it's not fair, but that's the way it is.

metirish May 31 2007 12:41 PM

I remember Valentine would bristle at suggestions that Benitez was a choker,Bobby was a huge supporter of his and Benitez of him. Like others I seem to only remember when he failed,I do remember him striking out the side against the yankees once,think it was IL play and not the WS .

Centerfield May 31 2007 01:38 PM

Wow, Benitez revisited. In 1999, when the Mets were in a dogfight for a wild card spot in September, Benitez was a big reason the Mets remained alive. Though I've long since forgotten the exact numbers, he was great during that run (you don't remember any memorable blown saves do you?). He had two scoreless appearances in two close games against the Pirates in the last weekend of the season. Both kept the game tied, both would eventually end up in wins. Had he given up a run in either of those games, or in any game that month, it would have been blown up and the media would have ripped him for blowing it at the worst possible time. It never happened. That post-season, he pitched 9 innings and gave up 1 run (he also allowed an inherited runner to tie the game in Game 4 of the NLDS.) That first run he gave up was in Game 6 of the NLCS in his second inning of work. Before that, he converted a save in Game 4 and didn't allow a run in Game 5 (the Grand Slam Single). Because of that one post-season run, he was accused of blowing it at the worst possible time. In 2000, Benitez was again, great in September. In the post-season, he had two blown saves in 4 opportunities. The JT Snow Game, and Game 1 of the World Series. Critics again said he melted down in the worst possible spot. Over the course of two post-seasons, he made 15 appearances with an ERA of 2.00. In 2001, because of the two memorable games against the Braves, Benitez critics changed their tune from "Benitez sucks in the post-season" to "Benitez sucks in big games". They ignore the success he had in September prior to that year and the success he had prior to those games. He picked up 5 saves after 9/11 and picked up the win in the dramatic Piazza HR game after entering the game in the 8th (he closed it out in the 9th). Even his biggest critics concede that had he blown a save at any point during that stretch, it would have been "at the worst possible time." So anything short of perfection would have contributed to this reputation. All in all, his "history of failure" can be boiled down to five games over the course of three years during which he was one of the most dominant relief pitchers in baseball. The Mets basically played with no safety net during that entire time and Benitez pitched well in countless big games. (For instance, does anyone remember that Benitez pitched 2 scoreless innings in the Agbayani Walk-Off game? Do you think they would remember if he did give up a run?) By comparison, Braden Looper had 8 blown saves in 2005 including one where he blew two separate leads to the Braves in one game. It's amazing, and sad, that Benitez has been so villified by Mets fans. His "choking" is as big a myth as Jeter's super-competitive-clutchosity.

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2007 02:02 PM

IIRC his famous 01 "blowup" also came on the third or fourth consecutive day of work and there being discussion of his being ridden too hard even going in. There was one game in the middle there he worked which was desperate but not serious, if I recall properly.

Centerfield May 31 2007 02:09 PM

Benitez had worked in 4 of the 5 previous games. In the two games immediately prior, he had come in in the 8th inning.

Frayed Knot May 31 2007 02:39 PM

]I guess my problem is that I don't think that the modern 9th-inning closer is that important a role. He's in a no-win situation where when he succeeds it's not a big deal. (He just has to pitch one inning, and often he can even give up a run or two.) But when he fails he's the guy who spoiled everything. He's the guy who turned a win into a loss. Everything was going fine until this schmuck came into the game. All true. But the oddity about Armando is that he is treated as if he is now and always was uniquely lousy and untrustworthy when compared to the subset of his fellow closers - instead of it being recognized that his foibles were no worse than many and were actually better than most. I've said before that in any given year the fans of about 25 teams hate their closer since, as you say, HE is the guy who ruins everything for your team and you don't feel it when the other guy does so. But it's now gotten to the point with Benitez where the rep about him - and not just from bitter Met fans but also from supposedly more neutral and rational media members - is that his career has been nothing but a string of epic failures. Some wise-ass doing the highlite stuff on SNY the other night peppered his on-going description of Tuesday's game with: ".. and then the Giants brought in Armando Benitez - although why I have no idea" It's like all logic and sense of proportion gets lost whenever his name is brought up.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 02:53 PM

I'd be curious to see a listing of all-time post-season leaders in blown saves. According to Wikipedia, blown saves are not an official stat, but they've been tracked since 1988. If that's the case, it looks like the first ever post-season blown save was by Jay Howell of the Dodgers, against the Mets in LA, in NLCS Game 1: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1988/B10040LAN1988.htm

TransMonk May 31 2007 03:22 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'd be curious to see a listing of all-time post-season leaders in blown saves. That's a hard list to find. I read while looking that the Braves blew 11 of 33 saves between 1991 and 2001.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 03:39 PM

It might have to be assembled by looking at box scores.

soupcan May 31 2007 03:40 PM

On the player stats page on mlb.com they have a 'save' column and next to that what appears to be a 'save opportunies' column. It's odd though b/c they don't give a total number of save opps. at the bottom and in some cases a pitcher is listed as having a save but there was no save opp.

Benjamin Grimm May 31 2007 03:42 PM

And failing to get a save doesn't mean you blew it. You could have just held it for the next guy.

Elster88 May 31 2007 07:20 PM

Breaking news on SNY: San Francisco Chronicle reporting a Benitez trade.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 07:20 PM

Name that team.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 07:26 PM

Crazy guess: Sox. And by Sox I mean Sawx.

Elster88 May 31 2007 07:27 PM

Nah their bullpen is straight.

OlerudOwned May 31 2007 07:28 PM

It's da Fish. Scary 2004 flashback.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 07:32 PM

Elster88 wrote: Nah their bullpen is straight. I was hoping they'd get a little crazy and re-consider Papelbon as a starter.

Elster88 May 31 2007 07:34 PM

Maybe. Okajima too. Not that I'm sure if you're serious or not.

Edgy DC May 31 2007 07:40 PM

Seriously crazy.

seawolf17 May 31 2007 07:54 PM

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/05/31/SPGP5Q5MDJ2.DTL]Linky.[/url]

Edgy DC May 31 2007 08:05 PM

Armando blew the save. Now he sleeps wit' da Fishes. Strictly business. Nothing personal.

bmfc1 May 31 2007 08:15 PM

metsblog says that Armando is being traded to the Marlins.

OlerudOwned May 31 2007 08:16 PM

He's revisiting.

DocTee May 31 2007 09:08 PM

From the same site-- yikes! [url]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/05/31/national/a140504D69.DTL[/url]

Johnny Dickshot May 31 2007 09:12 PM

Benitez was always hocking on sandwiches. No wonder they traded him.

metirish May 31 2007 09:33 PM

Games against the Marlins just got tougher.

Frayed Knot May 31 2007 09:54 PM

metirish wrote: Games against the Marlins just got tougher. I dunno. In the minds of many Met fans, they just got easier. Summing up some stuff on Benitez While no one is claiming he was the perfect closer duing his time here, there have always been 3 general themes that drove me nuts about much of the anti-Armando diatribes 1) the notion that his presence as a closer was a detriment to the team to the point where virtually any other choice would have been an improvement Tracking the 15 closers who spent the most time in that role during the time he was here (1999-2002) among those, Armando ranked: 4th in save pct (88.5%) 1st in BA-against 5th in WhiP 1st in K/9 2nd in ERA 7th in SLG-against But what the detractors want you to believe was that while he was better than average in all those categories, his contemporaries were managing to give up more hits, more runs, strike out fewer batters, and blow games at a higher rate, yet somehow do it all at times and in games that didn't hurt as bad - even though virtually all closers are used in the same way. 2) That there was a predictable pattern to when and against who his "meltdowns" would occur; both in that he was a "bully" who would beat up on the weak sisters but then crumble at the sight of good teams, and that he was a near-perfect closer from April thru August and then a disaster afterward (Francesa is STILL spinning that one) But that doesn't stand up to scrutiny APR MAY JUNE JULY AUG SEPT ERA 3.48 3.21 1.90 2.15 2.36 3.19 HITS 50 43 32 34 36 30 BBs 37 25 34 28 20 23 WHiP 1.35 1.11 1.00 1.14 1.01 1.23 Bl Svs 6 3 4 5 3 4 and the teams that he blew those 25 saves against were a mixed bag as well: 1 each: DBacks, Braves, Cubs, Reds, Brewers, Pirates, Padres, Orioles, Red Sox, DRays 2 each: Astros, Yanx 3: Expos; 4 times: Phillies & Marlins (Hmmm, 'Spos & Marlins, weren't those exactly the teams he supposedly dominated?) Now I realize that Blown Saves aren't the only measure of bad games but, between the BS games and the rest of the standard stats, I contend that anyone claiming to see a predictable pattern there is seeing only what he wants. 3) And finally it's the notion that somehow all of his bad outings were solely the result of mental weakness and never just an off-night; a condition which apparently didn't affect other closers who often weren't as successful as him. It's as if they believed Armando to be the most talented pitcher ever to trod the Earth and therefore perfection was the only acceptable result.

Edgy DC Jun 01 2007 07:23 AM

i think, maybe if they're dumping Armando Benitez, San Francisco might do well to get themselves a real firstbaseman. Trade somebody for Craig Brazell or something.

soupcan Jun 01 2007 07:35 AM

From the 'Perpetuating The Myth department: - The two accounts of the trade that went down last night that I read (NY Times and NY Post) both included variations of the phrase 'Giants trade struggling Benitez' I think he was 9-11in save situations. Maybe he wasn't lighting the world on fire but its hardly 'struggling'.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 01 2007 07:48 AM

Whatever happened to Lance Neikro? IIRC he killed us in one series shortly after coming up.

Edgy DC Jun 01 2007 07:57 AM

Lance got DFA'd in early May and now has an .881 OPS in 14 games for your Vancouver Grizzlies.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 01 2007 08:03 AM

We could use a RH-pinch hitter with power/knuckleballer. Let's get him!

Edgy DC Jun 01 2007 11:05 AM

GM Sabean, teammate say fans played role in reliever's demise Henry Schulman, Chronicle Staff Writer Friday, June 1, 2007 (06-01) 04:00 PDT New York -- - There was one unusual sight in the Giants' clubhouse after their 4-2 loss to the Mets on Thursday night. As 24 players scurried to dress for the two-hour bus ride to Philadelphia, Armando Benitez's locker was abandoned, his chair folded and stored. Benitez already was gone, flying to Milwaukee to join the Florida Marlins and a new life far from the tumult of San Francisco, far from the fans who were sick of him, far from a star-crossed 2 1/2 years with a team for which he ultimately could not deliver. The Giants traded Benitez to Florida for 25-year-old reliever Randy Messenger, a 6-foot-6 right-hander used mostly in long relief. A source said the Giants also will pay $4.7 million of the roughly $5 million left on Benitez's three-year contract, which expires after this season. Clearly, this deal is addition by subtraction. "It was probably time for a change with Armando," said manager Bruce Bochy, who briefly spoke to the pitcher before he left Shea Stadium mid-game. Bochy said Benitez "seemed like he was really excited about the change." But Sabean said Benitez seemed "stunned" when told of the deal. In an extraordinary conference call with reporters, Sabean left no doubt he was unhappy that he was forced by public opinion to consummate a trade that leaves the Giants with no experienced closer. "The type of person or professional I am, I don't take any satisfaction in anybody's demise or inability to do his job," Sabean said. "I'll say one thing about Armando. He was strong enough to be a whipping boy. "The first game here (in New York) we had three players who were not available. That was not Armando's fault. Tonight we had three hits and looked dead as a doornail. That was not Armando's fault. We are at a crossroads in my mind, and apparently the fans, the press and some people in the clubhouse felt he needed to go. "Now we're going to find out what they're made of. We'll see who's strong enough to be the whipping boy now. ... We're going to find out who, when and how we're going to step up. Right now, as we speak, we're heading closer to last place than first place. I don't know that that was Armando Benitez's fault." Benitez was 0-3 with a 4.67 ERA and nine saves in 11 chances this year. After he saved 47 games for the Marlins in 2004, the Giants got a total of 45 saves in two-plus seasons from Benitez after they signed him to a three-year, $21.5 million deal. His tenure was doomed from the start by a catastrophic hamstring injury during his first month in San Francisco. He fought a chronically arthritic right knee in 2006. He also fought boos from his own fans, who grew tired of his body language, occasional comments blaming others for his failures and tightrope ninth innings. He fought former manager Felipe Alou and, ultimately, he fought a lack of confidence from some of his teammates. There was a detente for the first two months this season. Benitez had worked hard to strengthen his knee and get into better shape, and he was throwing better and saying the right things. Then, one week ago, he allowed two runs in the ninth inning to lose a game against Colorado, once again said, "I did my job" and suggested the offense should have scored more runs before he pitched. In the series opener here Tuesday night, Benitez blew a save in the 12th inning by walking leadoff hitter Jose Reyes, eventually balking him home and allowing a game-winning Carlos Delgado home run. Those two events proved to be the tipping point for Giants management. Benitez's teammates heard the news during Thursday's game. If some were happy to see him go, none said so publicly. After another lost game and series, nobody was ready to dance on a former teammate's grave. "Everybody knows the Benitez situation here the last three weeks," shortstop Omar Vizquel said. "It's been a battle between him and the fans and a struggle to really come out and do his job. It's a front-office decision. Obviously, it didn't work between Benitez and the Giants. They decided to move him to another team." Vizquel said Benitez was "misunderstood" at times because of the language barrier and agreed with Sabean with the closer was not the sole reason the Giants completed a 12-16 May and stand two games below .500. Benitez "was one of the things we were concerned about. The other thing is hitting," Vizquel said. "We need to hit more. It's bad on my part that I'm not hitting the ball well. We just have to score more runs. You can't blame one or two guys." Lefty reliever Steve Kline said he was sorry he did not have a chance to say goodbye to Benitez and added, "He can still pitch. He's a competitor. He's going back to Florida. He had a great year there one year. I wish him the best of luck." E-mail Henry Schulman at hschulman@sfchronicle.com.

metirish Jun 01 2007 11:09 AM

That's an astonishing admission by Sabean,I don't know if I have ever heard anything like it. If I'm McGowan I fire Sabean right now,how do you manage your roster that way,caving to the fans opinions,crazy.

Edgy DC Jun 01 2007 11:20 AM

Really. How about going to the mat for your players? "Boo me, you scapegoating schlubs."

metirish Jun 01 2007 11:22 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Really. How about going to the mat for your players? "Boo me, you scapegoating schlubs." Yes I see he said some great things about Benitez but to trade him because of fan opinion,it's confusing to say the least.

Edgy DC Jun 01 2007 11:34 AM

"Of the $5.16 million Benitez is owed the rest of this season, Florida will pay $460,000, according to a Marlins official. The Giants will cover covering the remaining $4.7 million." I'd fire myself for making that deal. Oh well, maybe Randy Messenger will be good.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 01 2007 11:37 AM

Brian Sabean wrote: "The first game here (in New York) we had three players who were not available. That was not Armando's fault. Tonight we had three hits and looked dead as a doornail. That was not Armando's fault. We are at a crossroads in my mind, and apparently the fans, the press and some people in the clubhouse felt he needed to go." A GM shouldn't feel forced to make a deal because of anything that the fans or the press say. I wonder about "people in the clubhouse", though. Was Armando's presence causing some kind of disharmony? Is that why he was traded?

metirish Jun 01 2007 11:46 AM

Anything I have ever read regarding Armando was that he's a decent sort,quite if anything,gives free haircuts.....

Elster88 Jun 01 2007 11:18 PM

metirish wrote: Anything I have ever read Ugh, that's something rogers would say. *wink

Nymr83 Jun 02 2007 03:27 AM

]and some people in the clubhouse felt he needed to go if thats true i'd cut Sabean some slack. But yeah, if you actually made a bad trade just to "make the fans happy" you should be fired. on its surface this seems to me like a bad trade. I don't like Benitez, but you traded him for a nobody and you are paying his entire salary. dumb.

iramets Jun 02 2007 04:07 AM

The part I don't get (credit M & MD for bringing this up) is who's the Giants' closer now? Did they have a closer all groomed and ready or somefin?

iramets Jun 02 2007 04:12 AM

double post

Frayed Knot Jun 02 2007 11:28 AM

iramets wrote: The part I don't get (credit M & MD for bringing this up) is who's the Giants' closer now? Not sure why those two should be concerned seeing as how they've been insisting for years that any bum dragged off of Fisherman's wharf could do a better job. At least, y'know, when it really counts.

Nymr83 Jun 02 2007 01:07 PM

they have Brian Wilson but he's been hurt, I'd guess Hennessey, maybe they'll go get someone.

soupcan Jun 03 2007 09:03 AM

="Nymr83"]they have Brian Wilson but he's been hurt, I'd guess Hennessey, maybe they'll go get someone. Some choice.

Willets Point Jun 03 2007 02:31 PM

="soupcan"] ="Nymr83"]they have Brian Wilson but he's been hurt, I'd guess Hennessey, maybe they'll go get someone. Some choice. The drunk or the drink.

Edgy DC Jun 05 2007 10:57 AM

Armando's feat: not without precedent.

Centerfield Jun 05 2007 11:36 AM

I believe that Charlie Brown actually does have a well-documented tendency to melt down in the worst of spots.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 05 2007 11:47 AM

He recently (in the strips being rerun in the daily papers) was caught stealing home with two outs in the ninth. He had represented the tying run.