Master Index of Archived Threads
My Right Arm
| Elster88 Jun 04 2007 07:45 PM |
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[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/sports/playmagazine/0603play-wood.html?_r=1&ref=playmagazine&oref=slogin]Interesting[/url]
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| metirish Jun 04 2007 09:11 PM |
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I read that article the other day,very interesting read,meant to post it,thanks Elster.
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| SteveJRogers Jun 09 2007 06:14 AM |
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While I admit I'm kind of guilty of the same line of thinking, but I wonder why whenever someone tries to disprove that pitch counts matter and pitchers should just pitch, pitch and pitch some more, despite the overwhelming evidence (heck even Dallas Green admits that he had a hand in messing up Gen K) in today's game, they use only the rarest rubber arm examples like Bob Gibson (who was the pitching coach for Tim Leary's debut) rather than try to do any kind of research to counter the arguments beyond "This guy once threw 197 pitches and all these extra inning CGs"
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| Edgy DC Jun 09 2007 06:34 AM |
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Bob Gibson wasn't the pitching coach for Leary's debut. Rube Walker was. To hear some people tell it, Walker invented pitch counts.
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| SteveJRogers Jun 09 2007 06:38 AM |
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Right, right, Bob was just the assistant. Brain fart there, sorry.
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| Iubitul Jun 09 2007 07:13 AM |
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I think Aluminum bats play a part in this.
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| MFS62 Jun 09 2007 07:40 AM |
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Apparently the message is finally gettng through. I was in the park a few weeks ago and heard this conversation: Kid: "How do you throw a curve ball?" Adult: "How old are you?" Kid: "Nine" Several adults who had heard the exchange: "You're too young!" Later
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| Elster88 Jun 09 2007 09:08 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 09 2007 09:41 AM |
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I don't think this is due to aluminum bats. Would the kids stop if they were facing wood bats?
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| iramets Jun 09 2007 09:24 AM |
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"Anecdotes" is not the plural form of "evidence" (or however that meme goes). Without getting into specifics, if you're going to include the falsely-positive arguments ("Except for Bob Gibson, pitchers wrecked their arms by throwing too may pitches") you need to include the falsely-negative: i.e., even under these scrupulous and meticulous conditions, pitchers are still wrecking their arms every day. You could make the case (and I would) that if pitch counts protect young pitchers so well, how come valuable and well-protected properties (like Zambrano and Pedro) spend so much time on the DL with arm troubles? Have you documented, for example, that the incidence of arm problems for starting pitchers has gone down significantly since pitch counts came into existence? Assuming you can document this, which is an iffy proposition, has it gone down enough to compensate for the declining quality of pitching in general , as tomorrow's Gibsons and Marichals and Drysdales will never get to throw as much as yesterday's, and will be routinely surrendering IP (and wins for their teams) to inept mediocrities who are pitching middle inning relief because they're not nearly the pitchers that tomorrow's Gibsons, and Marichals and Drysdales will be. or woulod have been, if we could ever get them achieve their full potential.
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| Elster88 Jun 09 2007 09:29 AM |
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ira don't bang your head against the wall.
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| iramets Jun 09 2007 09:32 AM |
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It feels so good when I stop.
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| Iubitul Jun 09 2007 10:14 AM |
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I think they would be coached differently.
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| Frayed Knot Jun 09 2007 11:17 AM |
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[url=http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ten-things-i-didnt-know-last-week38/]Dave Studeman of the Hardball Times[/url] takes Bissenger to task for some selective use of stats in that article (and also on some apparently related radio interview) saying, among other things, that;
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