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Did Anyone Else Hear THIS?

MFS62 Jun 02 2007 10:05 AM

On Thursday night's BBT on ESPN, they were talking about Ichiro's current hitting streak. I swore I heard ex-Major (and, I believe ex-Japanese) leaguer Orestes Destrade said he waits on the ball and "chinks" it to left field. The host of the show must have caught it, and quickly said something like "Yeah, Ichiro really dinks those hits beyond the infielders." Did anyone else hear that show? Did you catch that comment? Has anyone heard about whether or not Orestes will be censured for a comment that is a racial slur? Later

Edgy DC Jun 02 2007 10:18 AM

I think you should call them.

DocTee Jun 02 2007 10:32 AM

At least he didn't say that Dice-K nips the corners.

MFS62 Jun 02 2007 10:44 AM

DocTee wrote: At least he didn't say that Dice-K nips the corners. Oooooooh. Edgy, I did call the customer care number for ESPN, and was told the ESPN tv hotline is only open weekdays, M-F afternoons. I won't be able to call this week because of business, but the number is: 1-860-766-2236 (NOT toll free) I'd appreciate it if someone could call on Monday and report back here what they say. Later

Kid Carsey Jun 02 2007 10:48 AM

Chink kinda works: 2. To fill narrow openings in

MFS62 Jun 02 2007 10:58 AM

Then I guess it was an appropriate word. But I don't think Destrade was that erudite. BTW- I saw on another site that Fernando Vina was the first to use the term on that show, and Destrade used it moments later. Sort of like Imus echoing his producer Bernard's comment about the Rutgers womens basketball team. Later

metirish Jun 02 2007 11:00 AM

If anyone were insulted by "chinks" then I think they are probably looking to be,or very sensitive......I could see Yao Ming being a bit pisssed but why would Ichiro?

MFS62 Jun 02 2007 11:04 AM

metirish wrote: If anyone were insulted by "chinks" then I think they are probably looking to be,or very sensitive......I could see Yao Ming being a bit pisssed but why would Ichiro? Maybe not Ichiro, but about a billion other people might find it a tad offensive, eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink Later

Kid Carsey Jun 02 2007 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 03 2007 09:20 AM

MFS: >>>Then I guess it was an appropriate word. But I don't think Destrade was that erudite.<<< Well I had to look it up, and we all know how era, erru, uh, smart I am. I don't mean to be insensitive, and the few Asian people I know are a little fed up that racial slurs towards decendents of a whole continent are over- looked daily, but I guess we'll see if anything comes of it or your being ap- parently appalled by it is an overeaction.

Rockin' Doc Jun 02 2007 11:28 AM

Are they also offended when someone speaks of a chink in someone's armour? Chink can be a perfectly legitimate word. Of course, it has been used as an ethnic slur so everytime a person uses the word that must surely have been their intent. Chink –noun 1. a crack, cleft, or fissure: a chink in a wall. 2. a narrow opening: a chink between two buildings. 3. a chinking sound: the chink of ice in a glass. –verb (used with object) 4. to fill up chinks in. to caulk the chinks in the siding verb (used without object) 5. to make, or cause to make, a short, sharp, ringing sound, as of coins or glasses striking together. I believe this could be a case of making a out of a

Frayed Knot Jun 02 2007 11:35 AM

A 'chink' hitter doesn't sound any different to me than a 'ping' hitter and there's no reason why Ichiro, or any fans, should get all in a tiff over it -- although maybe Ping the Chinese delivery boy from the Seinfeld show may get doubly upset, I dunno. Destrade, btw, played in Japan for years.

Edgy DC Jun 02 2007 11:38 AM

I imagine it was meant the same way as dink --- an otomatopia creation to describe a lightly strick base hit.

martin Jun 02 2007 08:49 PM

well, at least he was trying to compliment his hitting style, rather than being niggardly with his praise.

attgig Jun 02 2007 09:55 PM

="Rockin' Doc"]Are they also offended when someone speaks of a chink in someone's armour? Chink can be a perfectly legitimate word. Of course, it has been used as an ethnic slur so everytime a person uses the word that must surely have been their intent. Chink –noun 1. a crack, cleft, or fissure: a chink in a wall. 2. a narrow opening: a chink between two buildings. 3. a chinking sound: the chink of ice in a glass. –verb (used with object) 4. to fill up chinks in. to caulk the chinks in the siding verb (used without object) 5. to make, or cause to make, a short, sharp, ringing sound, as of coins or glasses striking together. he waits on the ball and chinks it to left field. which definition is that? because OD used chinks as a verb here. and neither of the verb definitions work. i suppose you could say ichiro waited on a the ball and sent it to a chink in the OF, but considering how much space there is in the OF, and only 3 folks patrolling the spacious grounds, i hardly think chink is an appropriate word. that said. i'm guessing it slipped out unconsciously. give him a small slap on the wrist so that he's a bit more conscious/cautious with his words, and move on. no need to dwell. more than unintentional things like this, what pisses me off more are things like Shaq talking fake chinese when asked about yao a few years ago, and thinking there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. that's just straight disrespectful.

martin Jun 03 2007 02:22 AM

one of college baseballs winningest coaches is also a terrible racist that we can get indignant about: "Bittle's good. Just look at his numbers," MSU coach Ron Polk said. "We've been beaten by chink hits so much the last week and a half, we finally caught a break. I don't apologize for winning with chink hits." from a mississippi state game last month. http://www.djournal.com/pages/story.asp?ID=242017&pub=1&div=Sports i emailed him and complained, his reply was short, he said his computer is busted, he has some gook on it.

Centerfield Jun 03 2007 07:31 AM

Maybe if martin tries that joke a third time someone will laugh.

Elster88 Jun 03 2007 08:29 AM

]Shaq talking fake chinese when asked about yao a few years ago, and thinking there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. that's just straight disrespectful. I thought this was hysterical. I was surprised when Shaq was getting ripped apart the next day. It reminded me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer got into it with a guy who owned a pizza place (the episode where he cooks his shirts and where George is feeding calzones to Steinbrenner). In that one, Kramer talks fake Italian (read:gibberish) after the pizza guy yells at him. His fake Italian included sticking his tongue out and spitting and kicking his foot on the counter. As an Italian-American, I was not in the least bit offended. In fact I loved it. It's all in the context, I guess.

soupcan Jun 03 2007 08:42 AM

It's not even 10:45 on Sunday morning and this is now the third time today that I've heard (or read) the word 'onomatopia'.

martin Jun 03 2007 10:42 AM

Centerfield wrote: Maybe if martin tries that joke a third time someone will laugh. i am all out, i only wish i could do another. i dunno what is worse, my miserable jokes, or the idea that something clearly unintentional and unoffensive is scrutinized so closely to find problems.

Kid Carsey Jun 03 2007 10:49 AM

I'm patiently waiting for someone to explain what otomatopia is.

martin Jun 03 2007 10:54 AM

onomatopoeia, using word that sounds like what you are describing.

metsmarathon Jun 03 2007 10:55 AM

i think its more likely that OD was intending to say "dink" and came up with "chink" instead. like when people say "mute" point for "moot" point. they think they've got the right word, cos it sounds kinda right, but they've never applied the brainpower to what the actual words they are using will mean, or could mean. i read the other day on some other message board "it siezes to amaze me" about something the poster had intended to demonstrate his continuing appreciation of something wonderful. but not only did he use the completely wrong word, he phrased the whole thing wrong. but in his head, he said exactly what he wanted to, without really knowing that he got it wrong. i wonder, too, would we be offended if another host on another show were to describe some substance that is think, highly viscous, sticky, and not very smoothly dispensable from a container as "gooky" when he means "goopy"? i think this is just a genuine case of misspeaking mind you, i mean misspeaking as in saying words other than what you had intended, not the don imus misspeaking definition of "i said a stupid stupid thing, and now i'm in trouble for it, and it was a mistake for me to have said it, even though it was exactly what i had said and meant exactly what i intended it to, but people are offended, so i've gotta backtrack off of it."

martin Jun 03 2007 11:01 AM

right, but your examples are malapropisms, mistakes, whereas destrade didnt really make a mistake. he just used a word that he probably didnt realize that people would bother caring about.

Elster88 Jun 03 2007 11:09 AM

marathon is arguing that it was a slip of the tongue.

Kid Carsey Jun 03 2007 11:11 AM

I said, "for all intensive purposes" until my late twenties instead of, "intents and purposes."

martin Jun 03 2007 11:23 AM

Elster88 wrote: marathon is arguing that it was a slip of the tongue. mute point and siezes to amaze are malapropisms, mistakes, not simple slips of the tongue by people intending to use different words. people mean to say mute point, they think that is the phrase. i don't think he think did a slip of the tongue or a malapropism. he just forgot that the word he used could be taken out of context and construed the way it was. i feel like if stevejrogers made this thread you guys would light him up.

Edgy DC Jun 03 2007 11:42 AM

Glad to be a part of that.

Frayed Knot Jun 03 2007 07:24 PM

My favorite from the old board was when a player with a swelled head would get referred to as a 'Pre-Madonna'

MFS62 Jun 04 2007 09:18 AM

Here is an interesting response to the topic on another board: ]I actually remember chink and Chinese home run being discussed in Dickson's Baseball Dictionary, but I don't know why anyone would think that one term has anything to do with the other. Quote: Chink: To hit a ball weakly; to squeeze out a hit. Usage Note. The term is widely used but subject to offensive interpretation; e.g., "steal bases, advance runners, chink in some hits" (New York Yankees manager Dallas Green, quoted in Hartford Courant, Apr. 5, 1989). Although it has been argued that this is the "chink" defined as "a short metallic sound," it was interpreted in an angry letter to the Hartford Courant (Apr. 8, 1989) "as a demeaning metaphor about people of Chinese extraction." Dickson has about 2 pages on usage and etymology for Chinese home run, so I'm not retyping all of it, but here are a few interesting paragraphs: Quote: 1st Use. 1954. When Dusty Rhodes hit his aforementioned Chinese home run, Joseph H. Sheehan (New York Times, Oct. 1, 1954) attempted to trace the term: "According to Garry Schumacher of the Giants' front office, who in his baseball writing days was a noted phrase-coiner, 'Chinese homer' was one of the numerous Thomas Aloysius (Tad) Dorgan contributions to the lexicon of American slang." Sheehan concluded that the connotation of a cheap homer came from the association in Dorgan's era of the name "Chinese" with coolies and cheap labor. "The term carried the added connotation of a homer of little account, in line with the cynical observation of a colorful political leader who reportedly once stated, 'Why should we care about the Chinese. There ain't a vote in a million in them.'" Etymology. The debate over the Chinese Exclusion Law in the 1910-20 era served as the motivation for Dorgan's term for an insubstantial home run. David Shulman commented: "The idea was express a cheap home run as Chinese then represented what was cheap, such as their labor." Dorgan used his cartoon "Indoor Sports" to introduce, or popularize, slang; such terms as "dumbbell," "skimmer" (for hat), and "hot dog" have been traced to Dorgan's cartoons. Dorgan's coinage fit in with a larger group of Chinese terms, such as a "Chinese Rolls-Royce," which is a Ford according to Abraham Roback (Dictionary of International Slurs, 1944), and probably was not intended to be especially disparaging. Sheehan noted that Dorgan was a "benign and gentle" satirist with two adopted sons of Chinese ancestry. Quote: While not disputing the Dorgan story, Dan Schlossberg (The Baseball Catalog, 1980) notes that the term was used in the 1920s by New York Tribune sports editor Bill McGeehan to describe the right-field wall at the Polo Grounds, which looked "thick, low, and not very formidable--like the Great Wall of China." But this seems to be one of those terms that has attracted a fascinating collection of explanations. Russ Hodges, longtime Giants annoucer, gave this explanation to the San Francisco Call-Bulletin (Apr. 21, 1958; Peter Tamony): "Years ago in the Polo Grounds, Chinese gamblers were wont to gather in the left-field stands at the foul line, a little over 250 feet. Any hit that went out at that point was followed by cries of: 'There goes one for the Chinese.'" While interesting, I'm not sure how credible the last two theories really are... while the Polo Grounds were the most popular source for the use of the word, it was definitely used elsewhere, and there's no real evidence that it was first coined at the Polo Grounds. Later

Edgy DC Jun 04 2007 09:34 AM

Much ado.

Centerfield Jun 04 2007 09:44 AM

martin wrote: ="Centerfield"]Maybe if martin tries that joke a third time someone will laugh. i am all out, i only wish i could do another. i dunno what is worse, my miserable jokes, or the idea that something clearly unintentional and unoffensive is scrutinized so closely to find problems. Your jokes are worse. On top of being unfunny/offensive, the last thing you should do when a joke bombs is to tell it again. Getting back to the point, I think a distinction has to be made between unintentional slips and deliberately inappropriate material. I doubt Destrade would risk his job at ESPN by attempting to slip in a racial slur. If it was just a gaffe, I don't see it as a big deal. What I do see as a problem, and KC touches upon it, is that deliberately offensive material aimed at the expense of asian americans gets swept under the rug a lot of times. I mentioned here before that Power 105 DJ Ed Lover ran a segment called "Are you smarter than an Asian?" where he mimicked an asian accent and propogated stereotypes. A few years ago, Miss Jones at Hot 97 ran "the Tsunami Song" which mocked drowning "chinks" and "chinamen". Neither host lost their job. Neither incident got a fraction of the publicity of the Imus story. Anyone who thought Imus's jokes were horrific or cruel should take a read through that song's lyrics. The explanation, oftentimes, is that it's just a joke, and that everyone should lighten up. I find that hard to do when there are still hate crimes, glass ceilings...when some people see an asian face and immediately equate that with "foreigner". It's hard to laugh at racial slurs when those slurs were used by the guys who assaulted a group of asian americans on Northern Boulevard a few weeks ago. When these things are a thing of the past, then maybe I'll find it funny. When it is just a joke and no longer real life.

martin Jun 04 2007 04:14 PM

Centerfield wrote: On top of being unfunny/offensive you should thank me for telling a joke that you could interpret as offensive. it gave you a nice chance to get up on your high horse and preach.

Kid Carsey Jun 04 2007 04:48 PM

Dude's Korean, he finds the word gook offensive. Seems pretty reasonable. If someone posted a joke with coon, wop, or spic in it I'm sure someone would have some kind of reaction too. (sorry to butt in, just my two cents)

DocTee Jun 04 2007 05:05 PM

CF et al My post on page 1 of this thread was a poor attempt at humor, and I'm sorry if I gave offense.

Centerfield Jun 04 2007 05:15 PM

So let me get this straight, you use racial slurs as the basis of your jokes and you have a problem with me being preachy? What response would you expect? Should I ignore it? Am I out of line to object? Should I be impressed by the clever way in which you use naughty words in their alternative meanings? Just so we’re clear, if you use racial slurs, I will get preachy. In fact, the more you use them, the preachier I’ll get. If my response bothers you, you might consider not using those terms. The funny thing about this, is that I doubt you would ever try that joke if all of us were sitting at a meal together. If this discussion was held at a table instead of on the net, there is no way you would think it would be appropriate to try those jokes. But on the web, anonymously, you discover the courage to do so. But then again, maybe you would. In which case everyone would think you were an ass. And everyone would be right. So there you have it. I’ll take preachy. You can pick between coward and ass.

martin Jun 04 2007 05:58 PM

Centerfield wrote: So let me get this straight, you use racial slurs as the basis of your jokes and you have a problem with me being preachy? What response would you expect? Should I ignore it? Am I out of line to object? Should I be impressed by the clever way in which you use naughty words in their alternative meanings? there is no should or shouldnt, you do whatever you want. you are not "out of line" to be preachy. if you like preaching, go for it. ]Just so we’re clear, if you use racial slurs, I will get preachy. In fact, the more you use them, the preachier I’ll get. If my response bothers you, you might consider not using those terms. it certainly doesnt bother me, and you like it, so it is a win-win. and to be fair, the bad jokes i made were meant to point out that context and intent are relevant. this whole thread is based on a misunderstanding of whether context and intent are important. if you didnt mean to make a slur, you didnt make a a slur. ]The funny thing about this, is that I doubt you would ever try that joke if all of us were sitting at a meal together well, at least with you i would know i wouldnt get in much trouble because you mentioned earlier how much you do not like when words lead to violence.

Centerfield Jun 04 2007 06:02 PM

Doc, Honestly, I read your post and didn't find it offensive. I don't speak for anyone else but there's no need to apologize to me. But it's appreciated nonetheless. I don't know...for some reason your post and martin's had a different feel to them. Maybe it was because he made the same joke twice...or maybe it was the great length he went to in trying to incorporate "gook" into his joke. The email, the broken computer, the reply...it seemed like he really really wanted to use that word. Either way, I'd like to think that his response compared to your unprovoked apology proves my hunch right, but I know it's not that simple.

martin Jun 05 2007 12:30 AM

Centerfield wrote: Doc, Honestly, I read your post and didn't find it offensive. I don't speak for anyone else but there's no need to apologize to me. But it's appreciated nonetheless. I don't know...for some reason your post and martin's had a different feel to them. Maybe it was because he made the same joke twice...or maybe it was the great length he went to in trying to incorporate "gook" into his joke. The email, the broken computer, the reply...it seemed like he really really wanted to use that word. boy are you right about that. i did want to use that word. and you do have to really stretch it to incorporate gook into a sentence so that it works both as an innocent word and as a slur. the premise of my jokes was how ludicrous it would be if people were so oblivious or indifferent to the PC state of things that they would unknowingly use these words. but i am not mark twain, and my jokes arent very good. almost always, when someone is getting their balls busted for jokingly saying something offensive, they never really meant anything by it. it has nothing to do with violence or glass ceilings or whatever, that is ridiculous. shaq made a dumb joke about how chinese sounds like jibberish to him. destrade probably had no clue what he was doing. maybe we are a little too eager to find victims. a little too eager to get the moral high ground when someone pokes fun or happens to use a word can also be used as a slur. and i think maybe perspective has been totally lost when you start equating jokes with real violence. although, i am kinda steamed about that japanese joke doc tee made, maybe i am wrong and words do hurt.

Nymr83 Jun 05 2007 02:38 AM

i see a whole lot of crying over nothing. I don't think Imus deserved half the shit he got, but he at least used words directed at people. Destrade used a word to describe a hit, there was no deragatory anything to anyone, the fact that anyone could even attempt to treat this as a story shows how infected with PC-crap we are.

Centerfield Jun 05 2007 09:55 AM

="martin"] the premise of my jokes was how ludicrous it would be if people were so oblivious or indifferent to the PC state of things that they would unknowingly use these words. but i am not mark twain, and my jokes arent very good. almost always, when someone is getting their balls busted for jokingly saying something offensive, they never really meant anything by it. it has nothing to do with violence or glass ceilings or whatever, that is ridiculous. shaq made a dumb joke about how chinese sounds like jibberish to him. destrade probably had no clue what he was doing. maybe we are a little too eager to find victims. a little too eager to get the moral high ground when someone pokes fun or happens to use a word can also be used as a slur. and i think maybe perspective has been totally lost when you start equating jokes with real violence. From what I can gather, you seem to be making two separate points: 1. Some people use slurs unknowingly. Don't give them a hard time. 2. Some people say offensive stuff jokingly. Don't give them a hard time. Like I said before, I agree with you on the first point. I have no problem with those that use an offensive term inadvertently. If Destrade had no intent, I see no reason to make it a big deal. (One can make the case that he should have known, but that’s another topic altogether.) I disagree with you on your second point for many reasons. First of all, you say that people who make offensive jokes "almost always" didn't mean anything by it. How do you know that? Is this documented somewhere? Even if that were the case, how do you distinguish the ones who meant something and the ones who didn't? Does this mean we should keep our mouths shut all the time because some people didn’t mean any harm? Secondly, even if there is no bad intent, offensive jokes, racial slurs and derogatory language can have a negative impact. Specifically, these things can condone and reinforce feelings of hate or prejudice among those who actually do feel these things. Why do I have a problem with the word “gook”? It’s not the letters or the sound that is offensive to me. It’s the hate and bigotry associated with that word. Acceptance of the word implies acceptance of those feelings. A person harboring such feelings will hear these jokes, hear the word “gook”, and think that their feelings are justified and widely accepted. You think it’s silly that I bring up the hate crimes. You distort my message by implying that I equated the jokes to hate crimes. That’s not true. Obviously making an insensitive remark is a far cry from racially motivated assault. But I disagree with you that these jokes have “nothing to do with violence”. I think these words can promote prejudice and hate. And I suspect that some of the comics may not be as innocent as you make them out to be. There is a time and place for racial humor...and there are plenty of times it’s not harmful. If you’re with a group of friends who you know not to be racist, and who also know you not to be racist, there’s no harm in jokes like that. Back when the Braves rotation was Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Bruce Chen, my buddies and I would call him the chink in the Braves armor. But I wouldn’t make that joke at work, in a public setting, or anywhere else that it can be misinterpreted. When I say that you wouldn’t make these jokes if you were sitting at a table with me, I’m not saying you would be afraid I’d get up and pop you in the nose. You wouldn’t make those jokes because you know them to be inappropriate. You would know that such a joke would be disrespectful to me. All I’m asking is that when you are in public, be respectful even if I’m not there.

iramets Jun 05 2007 10:09 AM

I think that what Martin means by "I am not Mark Twain" is "I am a crude, imperceptive, witless, offensive boor whose every attempt at humor fails, except on those occasions when I inadvertently urinate on myself while telling a joke." So, yeah, in that sense of the term, you're clearly not Mark Twain. I want to support CF's point that "when you are in public, be respectful even if I’m not there," by adding one of my own: it's irrelevant that CF is of Korean heritage himself. Offensive and dismissive language is disrespectful, except maybe among close friends, and even there it's getting harder and harder to justify. Basically, it's not inherently funny anyway, and if someone expresses discomfort, well, what's the point? It's not as though everyone else is falling down laughing at stereotype humor.. Personally, I don't think that getting preachy and high-horse is a very effective tactic when dealing with inadvertent boors. Better to explain patiently and politely (as CF is doing and has done) your request to refrain from casual abuse, and (when possible) to maintain that civil tongue as long as possible in the face of provocative and obnoxious boorishness.

Edgy DC Jun 05 2007 10:28 AM

"Love many, trust few, do bad to none." - Yau-Man

seawolf17 Jun 05 2007 10:37 AM

metirish Jun 05 2007 10:42 AM

I watched Margaret Cho the other night on TV,she was ripping of laughs at the expense of Koreans,it was hilarious,would I feel that way if an Irish comic was doing it about Irish people,of course I would and Tommy Tiernan does it all the time. I guess my point here is that like CF said there are times and places for racial humor,of course there are some social commentators that say there should never be a place for such humor,but I don't agree with that. Cho BTW looks totally different,she's lost a bunch of weight.

iramets Jun 05 2007 11:22 AM

That's a tough one, and it's only going to get tougher as we assimilate. If Koreans are permitted to mock each other mercilessly, and non-Koreans are subject to instant social shunning for attempting such humor, basically once CF provides his bona fides (tough to do on the Internet, especially) then he can riff on his people all he wants--but what's to stop me from claiming to be Korean or black? Are you prepared to tell me that I'm not? Does half-Korean count? How about maybe my great-grandmother was Korean, I think? How about "Some of my best friends are Korean"? Is that my pass to tell disgusting, vulgar, racial jokes? Really?

metirish Jun 05 2007 11:30 AM

It's a fair point ira,and how would I have felt if Cho was telling jokes about the Irish,I'd probably have a few choice words to shout at her,I think I've opened up a whole different conversation here,sorry if I took things of track.

martin Jun 05 2007 01:40 PM

Centerfield wrote: When I say that you wouldn’t make these jokes if you were sitting at a table with me, I’m not saying you would be afraid I’d get up and pop you in the nose. You wouldn’t make those jokes because you know them to be inappropriate. You would know that such a joke would be disrespectful to me. All I’m asking is that when you are in public, be respectful even if I’m not there. because we are not physically at a table it gives me more opportunity to be honest. you are being a pussy. you are whining like a bitch about your precious tribe. get over it. ="iraments"]I think that what Martin means by "I am not Mark Twain" is "I am a crude, imperceptive, witless, offensive boor whose every attempt at humor fails, except on those occasions when I inadvertently urinate on myself while telling a joke." So, yeah, in that sense of the term, you're clearly not Mark Twain. i dunno why you are explaining,it was clear that was exactly what i meant.

Centerfield Jun 05 2007 02:12 PM

martin wrote: because we are not physically at a table it gives me more opportunity to be honest. you are being a pussy. you are whining like a bitch about your precious tribe. get over it. Awesome. I love when they lose it and admit that they ordered the Code Red.

martin Jun 05 2007 02:22 PM

i dunno exactly what that means about the code red. i will assume you are still angry about that time somebody made that tasteless joke about bruce chen.

Willets Point Jun 05 2007 02:26 PM

Nymr83 Jun 05 2007 02:29 PM

martin wrote: i dunno exactly what that means about the code red. i will assume you are still angry about that time somebody made that tasteless joke about bruce chen. i am in a state of shock that someone has either not seen or does not remember A Few Good Men.

Centerfield Jun 05 2007 02:35 PM

Hey, wait a second. I've been nothing but civil all throughout this thread. I can't help it if martin is losing his shit. Don't move this thread. I want everyone to see martin squirm. ="martin"]i will assume you are still angry about that time somebody made that tasteless joke about bruce chen. I brought some straws for you to grasp at.

Willets Point Jun 05 2007 02:39 PM

Centerfield wrote: Hey, wait a second. I've been nothing but civil all throughout this thread. I can't help it if martin is losing his shit. Don't move this thread. I want everyone to see martin squirm. You're the one who said something about a Code Red. I just illustrated it.

metsmarathon Jun 05 2007 02:54 PM

martin wrote: ="Centerfield"] When I say that you wouldn’t make these jokes if you were sitting at a table with me, I’m not saying you would be afraid I’d get up and pop you in the nose. You wouldn’t make those jokes because you know them to be inappropriate. You would know that such a joke would be disrespectful to me. All I’m asking is that when you are in public, be respectful even if I’m not there. because we are not physically at a table it gives me more opportunity to be honest. you are being a pussy. you are whining like a bitch about your precious tribe. get over it. martin - less likely to be be truthful to your face. and somehow, cf is the pussy? i don't quite see it.

Rockin' Doc Jun 05 2007 05:10 PM

Did you order the code red? You're goddamn right I did!!

Nymr83 Jun 05 2007 07:23 PM

i hate when they edit him on television :(

martin Jun 05 2007 09:56 PM

metsmarathon wrote: martin - less likely to be be truthful to your face. and somehow, cf is the pussy? i don't quite see it. 1. didnt say anyone was a pussy, i said he was acting like one. big difference. making mountains out of molehills is pointless and weak. getting offended at every opportunity is absurd. tribalism in general is absurd. i certainly dont give a damn if you insult the random groups i was born into, although i know you fellers arent buying that argument, because i have been over it before. tribal loyalty seems primitive to me. i am not the one worried about this or that random group and causing division. in my book everyone is game for taunting. fair treatment all around. 2. you are implying that i am a pussy. i am amazed i am so stupid and cowardly considering that centerfield explicitly said he wasnt the sort of person who would punch me in the face for offending him. i will remember that if i ever see him. it will be free speech time, and the only punishment i will receive will be a nice preaching at. again, l it should be noted that i never used a slur against anyone, merely amused myself with the idea that some people unintentionally offend, like orestes destrade did. but i know it doesnt really matter, when it is time to get offended all bets are off, the whining commences. ]Hey, wait a second. I've been nothing but civil all throughout this thread. I can't help it if martin is losing his shit. Don't move this thread. I want everyone to see martin squirm. you brought it up, dude, i didnt even know what it was. maybe blame iramets, he sniped a couple shots at me. it is cool though, that is the way he rolls. ]I brought some straws for you to grasp at. don't look at me, man, you are the one who used the slur against bruce chen. remember, according to you, the listener gets to determine if a statement was offensive, regardless of context. i just hope nobody was listening when you said it. saying that in public is not cool. yunno that shit contributes to violence right? in fact, the actually violent person isnt really to blame, he is the victim of the slurs he heard. always blame the words, never the violence.

iramets Jun 06 2007 08:43 AM

martin wrote: blame iramets, he sniped a couple shots at me. I'll take some blame for getting this thread red-lighted. I did cross a line when I paraphrased martin's remarks at the top of this page, and in fact that was the very line I was talking about when I suggested that criticism of insensitive people should be as civil and as non-provocative as possible, so I'm doubly to blame. I can think martin is a pool of diarrhea for tossing words like "gook" around and thinking he's funny, even after being told he's not a couple of dozen times, but I really shouldn't write such things if I'm intending to maybe engage martin in re-thinking his position. The impulse to toss off insults is always great, and I give in to it a little too much in public.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 06 2007 08:52 AM

This thread was moved because of martin, not because of ira. In my opinion, "pussy" was the tipping point.

Centerfield Jun 06 2007 11:43 AM

martin wrote: almost always, when someone is getting their balls busted for jokingly saying something offensive, they never really meant anything by it. martin wrote: you are being a pussy. you are whining like a bitch about your precious tribe. get over it. So to be clear, most people who tell offensive jokes mean no harm, but you are one of the few that do. Got it. martin wrote: the premise of my jokes was how ludicrous it would be if people were so oblivious or indifferent to the PC state of things that they would unknowingly use these words. martin wrote: because we are not physically at a table it gives me more opportunity to be honest. So which is it martin? Were you trying to make a point or were you just being honest about the feelings you harbor? martin wrote: making mountains out of molehills is pointless and weak. getting offended at every opportunity is absurd. tribalism in general is absurd. i certainly dont give a damn if you insult the random groups i was born into, although i know you fellers arent buying that argument, because i have been over it before. tribal loyalty seems primitive to me. i am not the one worried about this or that random group and causing division. in my book everyone is game for taunting. fair treatment all around. So let me get this straight, the reason we have racism is because these damn minorities play the victim card and get insulted at every opportunity? It’s a shame. If everyone were like martin, there would be no such thing as racism. martin wrote: again, it should be noted that i never used a slur against anyone, merely amused myself with the idea that some people unintentionally offend, like orestes destrade did. but i know it doesnt really matter, when it is time to get offended all bets are off, the whining commences. Your inability to distinguish your jokes from Destrade’s mistake is astonishing. Is English not your primary language? Your lack of reading comprehension is really something else. Destrade used the word not knowing it was a slur, and with none of the intent of a slur. You used slurs knowing full well that they were slurs. I told you that your jokes were inappropriate, and then you, in your clumsy manner, demonstrated that you harbor the ill will and hatred associated with those slurs. You have, in effect, strengthened my argument through your incompetence. There are those, including some on this forum, who feel society is too PC. They make intelligent arguments in support of their position. Even those people wish you would shut up. You’re making them look bad. The feelings of resentment you have demonstrated here undermine their position. Basically, you’re an imbecile. Realize that. And know that you should say as little as possible. In fact, the more you try to advocate an argument, the more harm you will do that argument. Imbeciles make poor lobbyists. And as an imbecile, the least you could do is try to be a little nicer. It’s one thing to be stupid....no need compound that by being mean.

Nymr83 Jun 06 2007 12:27 PM

so thats where this thread went. welcome to the redlight forum you fucking <insert appropriate racial insult for each reader here>. its time to stop, martin.

martin Jun 06 2007 01:10 PM

="Centerfield"] martin wrote: So to be clear, most people who tell offensive jokes mean no harm, but you are one of the few that do. Got it. i dunno where you got that. ]So which is it martin? Were you trying to make a point or were you just being honest about the feelings you harbor? when i was being honest i said you were being a pussy, i dunno what you mean "which", like there is a choice. yes, i harbor feelings that you act like a pussy and whine like a bitch, what is the other question? ]So let me get this straight, the reason we have racism is because these damn minorities play the victim card and get insulted at every opportunity? It’s a shame. If everyone were like martin, there would be no such thing as racism. no the reason we have racism certainly isnt because people make fun of each other. and yes, if people were like me, there would be no racism, because i am beyond identifying myself with people who share arbitrary traits with me. if you taunted my race or ethnicity i would join you. ] You used slurs knowing full well that they were slurs. I told you that your jokes were inappropriate, and then you, in your clumsy manner, demonstrated that you harbor the ill will and hatred associated with those slurs. thanks for telling me how i feel. now you are the victim of the hate you invented for me. i am not doc tee, you wont get an apology for something i didnt do. ]There are those, including some on this forum, who feel society is too PC. They make intelligent arguments in support of their position. Even those people wish you would shut up. You’re making them look bad. The feelings of resentment you have demonstrated here undermine their position. i represent myself, not my race, not the others here. thats part of your problem is you identify people with groups too much, ]And as an imbecile, the least you could do is try to be a little nicer. It’s one thing to be stupid....no need compound that by being mean. i actually thought it was nice of me to be honest. you were being a pussy, better to let you know. ]Basically, you’re an imbecile. Realize that. And know that you should say as little as possible. In fact, the more you try to advocate an argument, the more harm you will do that argument. Imbeciles make poor lobbyists. i realize you think you can go off and me and think you have won because you have some moral high ground because you accused me of racial insensitivity. you do not understand. i am not running for office, i dont give a shit. playing the race card on me doesnt work. martin Jun 06 2007 01:12 PM Nymr83 wrote: so thats where this thread went. welcome to the redlight forum you fucking <insert appropriate racial insult for each reader here>. its time to stop, martin. isnt the redlight forum where we are supposed to kick it up a notch? bam! cocksucker. cooby Jun 06 2007 01:14 PM Hey martin, at least you got a longer leash than I have. I still don't even know why I ended up there, except my imagined slight to the forum martin Jun 06 2007 01:26 PM cooby wrote: Hey martin, at least you got a longer leash than I have. I still don't even know why I ended up there, except my imagined slight to the forum it is suprising that you would get redlighted for anything, you are a friend to the forum. i am lazy and have put no effort into being a friend to the forum, which isnt to say i shouldnt, you peeps are mostly nice, even if there is a bit of groupthink sometimes. cooby Jun 06 2007 01:33 PM You're okay :) Sometimes things get heated in cyberspace, just as they do in real life. And from what I hear, I am not supportive at all. Centerfield Jun 06 2007 01:42 PM martin wrote: ="Nymr83"]its time to stop, martin. isnt the redlight forum where we are supposed to kick it up a notch? bam! cocksucker. No dumbass. He's telling you to stop because you're making a fool of yourself. martin Jun 06 2007 01:51 PM Centerfield wrote: ="martin"] ="Nymr83"]its time to stop, martin. isnt the redlight forum where we are supposed to kick it up a notch? bam! cocksucker. No dumbass. He's telling you to stop because you're making a fool of yourself. i kinda doubt he cares if i make a fool of myself, fuckface! Willets Point Jun 06 2007 01:54 PM Kid Carsey Jun 06 2007 02:01 PM cooby plays the vindictive martyr card. Well done! Basically, as Yance said, it had to be red-lighted because of pussy calling. Actual or otherwise. If we don't do it for one, then the next one is gonna gripe and rightly so. Conversely, we also didn't red-light it because doing so would be caving into the request of one poster and then that would be thrown back in our faces too somewhere down the road. Maybe we should elect a Sgt. of Arms or something, I hate this part of adminin' and I'm sure I'm not the only one. martin Jun 06 2007 02:06 PM well we clearly were not talkin about baseball, so we deserved to get moved. and this way when centerfield exposes that i am an asshole, not as many people see me squirm. Edgy DC Jun 06 2007 02:23 PM We don't redlight people. We redlight threads. If we can exptract the material that led to the disaster from the productive conversation, we'll split. Else the whole thread lives on over here, and that's not meant to imply judgement on everyone who has contribituted to the thread, or necessarily anyone. Rotblatt Jun 06 2007 03:14 PM I'll say it: I rather enjoyed martin's "niggardly" joke. And Doc Tee's "nip" joke as well. I thought martin's "gook" one was a stretch, though, especially since it didn't really make sense--I'm pretty sure he confused "gook" with "gunk." I think that the initial "chink" comment was inadvertantly racist, if it was racist at all. I mean, the derivation of the word "chink," at least in the context in which it was used, has zero racist connotations. It's just a word that SOUNDS racist, even when used properly. Just like nip & niggardly, which is why I thought it was kind of funny to put them in similar contexts to that in which what's-his-name used chink--where it was technically correct, but still sounded like it might be racist. It's the kind of thing that, in the hands of a satirist, could be hilarious--can't you just see a correspondent from the Daily Show or the BBC Office riffing on this shit? Or is it just me & martin? Anyway, I guess my point is, I'm positive there wasn't malicious intent from martin, and I'm a little baffled as to why his jokes drew so much heat. Just my two cents. Batty31 Jun 06 2007 04:03 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 06 2007 04:08 PM Kid Carsey wrote: cooby plays the vindictive martyr card. Well done! Basically, as Yance said, it had to be red-lighted because of pussy calling. Actual or otherwise. If we don't do it for one, then the next one is gonna gripe and rightly so. Conversely, we also didn't red-light it because doing so would be caving into the request of one poster and then that would be thrown back in our faces too somewhere down the road. Maybe we should elect a Sgt. of Arms or something, I hate this part of adminin' and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Just a suggestion...I've been an admin at a few boards and mod at others...why not just lock or delete the offensive thread? I locked a heated politcal thread just a few weeks ago at one board because I know the original poster started the thread just to cause trouble. When the originaly poster put up a fuss, I zapped it. Rockin' Doc Jun 06 2007 04:06 PM "Oh, it's no use! Flash light Red light Neon light Ooh, stop light" --Parliamnet Kid Carsey Jun 06 2007 04:20 PM B31: >>>why not just lock or delete the offensive thread?<<< Well, for one, I'm usually a large part of the reason it got red-lighted. This one being a rare exception. The theory of this section, to me, is that if people are so turned off by the bickering and arguing and name calling they don't have to come to this fo- rum and stick to baseball. The funny thing about this theory is it seems when something gets bumped down here, everyone is drawn to it like a car wreck. Centerfield Jun 06 2007 04:38 PM For what it's worth, I have no problem with this thread being red-lighted. I knew it was headed there ultimately. I think I'm done with martin. I've said what I need to say. I also think martin has demonstrated his true colors in this thread and shown that his jokes weren't as innocent as he originally claimed them to be. Whatever. Your mileage may vary. KC, cooby, make up RIGHT NOW. Kid Carsey Jun 06 2007 05:09 PM I ain't feuding with her, I pretty much have an unconditional fondness for her regardless of what she thinks or how it may appear to others. Willets Point Jun 06 2007 08:58 PM Rotblatt wrote: I'll say it: I rather enjoyed martin's "niggardly" joke. And Doc Tee's "nip" joke as well. I thought martin's "gook" one was a stretch, though, especially since it didn't really make sense--I'm pretty sure he confused "gook" with "gunk." I think that the initial "chink" comment was inadvertantly racist, if it was racist at all. I mean, the derivation of the word "chink," at least in the context in which it was used, has zero racist connotations. It's just a word that SOUNDS racist, even when used properly. Just like nip & niggardly, which is why I thought it was kind of funny to put them in similar contexts to that in which what's-his-name used chink--where it was technically correct, but still sounded like it might be racist. It's the kind of thing that, in the hands of a satirist, could be hilarious--can't you just see a correspondent from the Daily Show or the BBC Office riffing on this shit? Or is it just me & martin? Anyway, I guess my point is, I'm positive there wasn't malicious intent from martin, and I'm a little baffled as to why his jokes drew so much heat. Just my two cents. I'll confess. In a situation where a homonym innocuously used is mistaken for a racial slur, martin's attempts to find similar words that could be mistaken was pretty funny.