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Milestones

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2007 02:55 PM

Just a general purpose note for a boring Monday: - we pretty much ignored Torre winning his 2,000th game, notable only in that he became the only player w/2K hits and also 2K wins as a manager. - and also let Hoffman's 500th save slide by with barely a mention. I know, it's saves and a boring 'counting' stat, but that's one long career of saving games. - Chipper got his 2,000th hit the other day Others Coming up: - Sammy is 1 HR short of 600 - Biggio is 11 hits short of 3,000. Be interesting to see if he keeps his (more or less) full time job once he gets it considering his sub-.300 OBA this year. - Frank Thomas is 4 HRs short of 500 - Griffey, who already has 18 this year and has passed Reggie, Palmiero, and Killebrew during the season to get to 8th all-time, needs 19 to reach 600 and would pass McGwire & Frank Robinson on the way. - and then there's that Bonds guy who now needs just 7 to tie, 8 to break.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 18 2007 05:51 PM

A while ago I heard that Glavine had 295 wins. Surely he's closing in on 300 by now?

Frayed Knot Jun 18 2007 05:53 PM

Oh, and Bobby Cox is one ejection short of the all-time record of John McGraw

Mr. Zero Jun 18 2007 06:01 PM

]A while ago I heard that Glavine had 295 wins. That's one for the "Millstones" thread.

SteveJRogers Jun 18 2007 06:18 PM Re: Milestones

Frayed Knot wrote: - Frank Thomas is 4 HRs short of 500 ARod needs 9 more as well. Also Sosa is sitting on 599

Frayed Knot Jun 19 2007 07:24 AM

Some amusing stuff about Cox's [url=http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/bobby-cox-you-are-ejected-please-leave-the-bench/]ejection history[/url] Also, considering the differences in their reputations, Torre's managerial ejection rate is surpringly close to that of Piniella.

Frayed Knot Jun 23 2007 05:29 AM

Bonds hits 749, now needs 7 to tie, 8 to break. - So I hear about this via this morning's SportsCenter, which leads off their telecast with that game (big surprise) with the tease that Bonds had hit another HR and "It was a big one!". So I'm thinking that maybe he hit a late-game clout which brought the Giants back from their early deficit after I had gone to bed ... only to find out that it was a relatively meaningless solo shot narrowing a 6-2 NYY lead down to 6-3.. Sheesh! Also, Baltimore puts Miguel Tejada on the DL breaking his 5th longest ever consecutive games played streak. Tejada had taken a pitch off his wrist 2 games ago and was pulled from the game. However he played the next day taking only a 1st inning AB where he tried to bunt his way on and was then replaced in an obvious attempt to keep the streak going. Turns out, however, that the wrist is broken and the streak is over.

metirish Jun 28 2007 02:03 PM

Frank Thomas hits number 500 in Minnesota,gets standing ovation.

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2007 02:04 PM

#500 for Frank Thomas this afternoon (Jays lost anyway) Houston is sitting Biggio while he's on the road so his 3,000th hit will come at home (needs 3) Cox tied the ejection record last week but needs one more to have it all to hisself

Willets Point Jun 28 2007 02:07 PM

Frayed, this thread needs photos of all the historical players the player in question needs to pass to get to his milestone.

HahnSolo Jun 28 2007 02:14 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Houston is sitting Biggio while he's on the road so his 3,000th hit will come at home (needs 3) I never liked the logic behind this. What if he goes in a slump on the homestand?

Edgy DC Jun 28 2007 02:25 PM

What if they, you know, lose games because he's sitting? I mean, I realize he's not helping them win much at all this year*, but that's a hard way to keep your rep as a gamer, no matter how skutchy your helmet is. *The on-base percentages for Houston's starting secondbaseman and shortstops this year are .278 and .275, respecitively. The OBP for backup at the two positoins, Mark Loretta, is .400. Mike Lamb, who used to play second, is now backing up at third with a .366 OBP. Backing up Morgan Ensberg, that is. Loretta is filling in while the shortstop (Adam Everett) is on the DL, and they better not give Everett the job back too easily.

attgig Jun 28 2007 02:34 PM

here's a prettier way to keep track: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/flash/milestones

Vic Sage Jun 28 2007 02:50 PM

500 HRs for Thomas. Looking at his career numbers, he's got all the HOF credentials you could ask for... but the most common defensive position he played throughout his career was "DH". Will voters hold that against him? And how devalued will his numbers be, considering he generated them during the steroid era? I guess the first test of the HOF-worthiness of a full-time DH will first be tested in a few years by Edgar Martinez. But he's a borderline candidate, compared to Thomas. To be clear, i don't think it should matter much at all that he was a DH a majority of his career. Same for Martinez. But i've heard writers speak dismissively of DHs as HOFers. The same is true of their intentions regarding steroids-era players in general. Will that combo be enough to derail Thomas's enshrinement? I don't think he's ever been specifically identified as a steroids cheat, but he does have an abnormally large physique and could be tarred with that brush by those who are looking for a reason not to vote for a DH. thoughts?

Edgy DC Jun 28 2007 03:09 PM

People should consider the DH question. A DH gets zero defensive win shares. But any writer working from the rule of DH=non-candidate should be railed against.

OlerudOwned Jun 28 2007 03:15 PM

attgig wrote: here's a prettier way to keep track: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/flash/milestones They project Griffey to hit 600 on September 3rd, against the Mets.

Centerfield Jun 28 2007 03:29 PM

That is, of course, unless he's on the Mets.

Gwreck Jun 28 2007 03:29 PM

Vic Sage wrote: guess the first test of the HOF-worthiness of a full-time DH will first be tested in a few years by Edgar Martinez. But he's a borderline candidate, compared to Thomas. I don't think Martinez is a "borderline" candidate. That's selling his career numbers pretty short. The .311 batting average and .933 OPS are pretty damn good.

seawolf17 Jun 28 2007 04:53 PM

I look forward to cheering Griffey's 600th home run wearing my white "GRIFFEY 3" Mets t-shirt. Frank Thomas is a Hall of Famer, methinks.

Nymr83 Jun 28 2007 05:01 PM

Martinez is a hall of famer, but the fact that he only played half the game does make it close to me. Thomas is just automatic. he is 11th on the career OPS list.

Elster88 Jun 28 2007 07:18 PM

seawolf17 wrote: I look forward to cheering Griffey's 600th home run wearing my white "GRIFFEY 3" Mets t-shirt. Frank Thomas is a Hall of Famer, methinks. I'm just being silly and superstitious of course, but the way things are going if Griffey joins the Mets I see him getting in a car accident on the way from LaGuardia to Flushing. He won't be injured, but he'll tear a hamstring jogging the last quarter-mile to Shea.

Frayed Knot Jun 28 2007 09:08 PM

Biggio 3K 'Stros came home, he got in the lineup, and promptly got 3 knocks. Good job for a nice Long Island boy.

Elster88 Jun 29 2007 04:44 AM

Does he belong in the HoF? I say no.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 29 2007 05:13 AM

he's a lock

Elster88 Jun 29 2007 05:14 AM

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. He still doesn't belong IMHO.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 29 2007 05:17 AM

Good luck with that campaign.

attgig Jun 29 2007 09:09 AM

consistency has gotten people in before. he's in. now... if he breaks the HBP record, he'll definitely be a lock...........

metirish Jul 24 2007 12:47 PM

Biggio will retire after the season. ] "Retiring is not an easy thing to do," Biggio told MLB.com. "But it's time. How many guys get the opportunity to do it the way they want to do it? You're pretty much writing your own story here, as far as walking away when you want to walk away. It's not taken away." Only seven major league players have more than 3,000 hits and 400 stolen bases. Five are enshrined in Cooperstown. Players with 3,000 Hits and 400 Steals Player Hits Steals Rickey Henderson 3,055 1,406 Lou Brock 3,023 938 Ty Cobb 4,191 744 Eddie Collins 3,315 744 Paul Molitor 3,319 504 Tris Speaker 3,514 432 Craig Biggio 3,014* 413* * Entering Tuesday's game "It's just time. That hurts. But you hear bad stories sometimes that guys waited too long [to retire] and I don't want a bad taste in the fans' mouths that I played too long. Then they remember me on the down side, the bad side. It can't get any better than it has been this year," he said, according to the Web site. "I'm going out on top. Other than a World Series, the [3,000th] hit thing was unbelievable. To me, I'm going out on top. It makes me feel great, being able to do it this way. And the fans can remember you on a positive note," he said, according to the Web site.

Frayed Knot Jul 24 2007 01:05 PM

Biggio was, I believe, unsigned beyond this year and it was not exactly a slam-dunk that he would have gotten a job offer from Houston, or maybe would have had to accept one at a greatly reduced price and for a greatly reduced role. IOW, not surprising that he's quitting. Being 41 y/o has something to do with it also. Back to milestones ... why are they using specially marked balls for Bonds & ARod during at-bats where they couldn't possibly tie or set a mark?!? As good as both are, it's not like either can hit TWO HRs in one AB. Do they think Alex's #499 is going to be valuable to the point where it's authenticity can't be in question? Or Barry's NON record-tying HR?

Edgy DC Jul 24 2007 01:11 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Do they think Alex's #499 is going to be valuable to the point where it's authenticity can't be in question? Or Barry's NON record-tying HR? Yeah, I think these lead-up homers are going to be valuable things. I imagine the day isn't far off when every ball will be uniuqiely marked and enter the game in sequence.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 24 2007 01:18 PM

I heard that they started with Barry with number 750. I don't really know that his 754th home run ball would be that much more valuable than, say, his 733rd, but using specially marked baseballs actually ensures that it will be more valuable. I'm so sick of memorabilia. If I was the dictator of baseball, I'd put big screens up so that no fan could get the ball, and I'd have it retrieved by special agents who would immediately destroy the ball.

Edgy DC Jul 24 2007 01:20 PM

I agree that it ensures that it will be more valuable. It improves the market for the genuine article, but it also decreases the market for the frauds. So more good than bad, right?

Benjamin Grimm Jul 24 2007 01:22 PM

True. But I'd rather destroy the ball and be done with it.

metirish Jul 24 2007 01:27 PM

I had no idea they were giving A-rod special balls.I didn't think he had any,I thought only Bonds had those balls. The balls should be sponsored and the money given to charity.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 24 2007 01:32 PM

The only thing special about Barry's balls is that they're tiny and shriveled. Giving the money to charity is nice, but unfortunately the ball will belong to whatever thug in the stands is able to push everyone else out of the way.

metirish Jul 24 2007 01:38 PM

I was thinking a charity ball like they have for the home run derby,probably wouldn't work though....

Frayed Knot Jul 26 2007 08:16 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 26 2007 08:21 AM

A partial explanation about using marked balls for ARod's recent games ... although I don't know if this was actually the reason for it. Sir Alex of Arodia his #499 last night in KC and will get a shot at #500 today (against the same pitcher against whom he hit #400 btw). BUT ... here's the kicker; the Yanx have to finish up a late-June suspended game against the O's this weekend (Saturday I think). And the poobahs at Elias have ruled that since this is a conclusion of a June game then anything that occurs in the remaining innings (Yanx lead by 2 in the 8th) will count as if it happened on its original date and be counted in the order in which they would have occured. So ... if he does NOT HR before then, but then HRs during the conclusion of that game (and he's def sked to bat in that game) then last night's HR will count as #500 and the "500th one" as #480-sumpthin (depending on how many he's slugged since). And even if he does HR between now & then, a HR in that conclusion will change the order of every HR between the original starting date and now. Now THAT would be an interesting conundrum for the collectors crowd. Last night's shot to RCF landed in that grassy area near the fountain and, as far as I could tell, was left alone there and not collected.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 26 2007 08:20 AM

That's pretty funny. He could end up hitting his 500th home run before he hits his 482nd? I hope Barry Bonds' 756th bounces off the scoreboard and lands on the field. Or lands in a bullpen or something. I'd hate to see some burly fan get rewarded for elbowing a few sixth-graders out of his way.

metirish Jul 26 2007 08:21 AM

Are KC fans that beaten that they can't be bothered getting "historic" baseballs? I would like to hear John Sterlings call on the Rodriguez milestone homer,should be entertaining.

Frayed Knot Jul 26 2007 08:24 AM

metirish wrote: Are KC fans that beaten that they can't be bothered getting "historic" baseballs? 1) I don't think fans can get to that area. It's would probably be like Pratt's HR which was just picked up by some stadium worker out near the base of the scoreboard. 2) They didn't think it WAS an historic HR (and it still may not be).

Frayed Knot Jul 31 2007 10:10 PM

Milestones taking an oh-fer tonight. - ARod now oh for his last 17. I think he was the only Yank NOT to hit a HR tonight. - Bonds is still playing but hasn't gone deep yet - and Glavine we kinda know about

Frayed Knot Aug 04 2007 12:06 PM

5 0 0 Got it out of the way early, hitting the first pitch he saw today into the LF seats. I came home and turned on the TV exactly as the ball was landing.

Edgy DC Aug 04 2007 01:11 PM

Where were those boo-birds during that curtain call?

MFS62 Aug 04 2007 03:14 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Where were those boo-birds during that curtain call? Maiking sure their coats were turned to the right side, then cheering for his curtain call. Later

metirish Aug 04 2007 09:15 PM

Bonds hits # 755 in his first AB tonight against the Padres.

MFS62 Aug 05 2007 08:36 AM

When the camera settled on Selig, he was standing but not applauding. It was tough to figure out exactly how he would react from his last few interviews. Good for him. A nice middle ground. Later

Frayed Knot Aug 05 2007 08:40 AM

Don't all those people with the flash cameras realize that their flashes are useless at the kind of distances from which they're using them?

metsmarathon Aug 05 2007 01:12 PM

listening to the fan today? apparently there's a big deal being made on richard neer's program that "arod is selling a commemorative 500th homer bat" for $129.99 + $20.00 S&H the big deal is that he's pimping his name for this overpriced product, apparently, sullying his good name. what no-one has picked up yet, is that craig biggio is also pimping his good, and heretofore presumably more genuine, good name on a commemorative 3,000th hit bat. but never let that get in the way of a good story, i guess...

SteveJRogers Aug 05 2007 01:38 PM

metsmarathon wrote: listening to the fan today? apparently there's a big deal being made on richard neer's program that "arod is selling a commemorative 500th homer bat" for $129.99 + $20.00 S&H the big deal is that he's pimping his name for this overpriced product, apparently, sullying his good name. what no-one has picked up yet, is that craig biggio is also pimping his good, and heretofore presumably more genuine, good name on a commemorative 3,000th hit bat. but never let that get in the way of a good story, i guess... Yeah but Neer is doing a show in NYC, ARod plays in NYC, ARod is a lightning rod for any sort of polorizing issues. Neer just saw the ad on the YES network and clearing has no clue or inclination to do any research on any other athlete hawking memoriablilla based on recent accomplishments

Frayed Knot Aug 05 2007 03:04 PM

]apparently there's a big deal being made on richard neer's program that "arod is selling a commemorative 500th homer bat" for $129.99 + $20.00 S&H the big deal is that he's pimping his name for this overpriced product, apparently, sullying his good name. He did that once before, in the early days in his NYY career following a 3-HR game against Bartolo Colon and the Angels. When a furor arose over that Alex came out the next day saying that it was done without his authorization and that he was immediately cutting ties with the promotion agency that handled it. Now we have this situation here which certainly sounds like much the same thing.

metsguyinmichigan Aug 05 2007 03:41 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Don't all those people with the flash cameras realize that their flashes are useless at the kind of distances from which they're using them? My guess is that the go off automatically as part of the digital camera, unless you change the settings. Anybody remember actual flash bulbs? The little square bulbs clicked onto the top of the cameras.

Farmer Ted Aug 06 2007 02:19 PM

A friend forwarded this to me today (needless to say, a Bonds hater). This is crazy shit. EXCLUSIVE: Barry Bonds' Home Run Record Tainted by Mechanical Device? By Michael Witte Published: August 06, 2007 10:45 AM NEW YORK (Commentary) Beyond his alleged steroid use, Barry Bonds is guilty of the use of something that confers extraordinarily unfair mechanical advantage: the “armor” that he wears on his right elbow. Amid the press frenzy over Bonds’ unnatural bulk, the true role of the object on his right arm has simply gone unnoticed. This is unfortunate, because by my estimate, Bonds’ front arm “armor” may have contributed no fewer than 75 to 100 home runs to his already steroid-questionable total. Bonds tied Henry Aaron’s home run record of 755 on Saturday night and will go for the new standard this week back at home in San Francisco. As a student of baseball – and currently a mechanics consultant to a major league baseball team -- I believe I have insight into the Bonds "achievement." I have studied his swing countless times on video and examined the mechanical gear closely through photographs. For years, sportswriters remarked that his massive "protective" gear – unequaled in all of baseball -- permits Bonds to lean over the plate without fear of being hit by a pitch. Thus situated, Bonds can handle the outside pitch (where most pitchers live) unusually well. This is unfair advantage enough, but no longer controversial. However, it is only one of at least seven (largely unexplored) advantages conferred by the apparatus. The other six: 1) The apparatus is hinged at the elbow. It is a literal "hitting machine" that allows Bonds to release his front arm on the same plane during every swing. It largely accounts for the seemingly magical consistency of every Bonds stroke. 2) The apparatus locks at the elbow when the lead arm is fully elongated because of a small flap at the top of the bottom section that fits into a groove in the bottom of the top section. The locked arm forms a rigid front arm fulcrum that allows extraordinary, maximally efficient explosion of the levers of Bonds' wrists. Bonds hands are quicker than those of average hitters because of his mechanical "assistant." 3) When Bonds swings, the weight of the apparatus helps to seal his inner upper arm to his torso at impact. Thus "connected," he automatically hits the ball with the weight of his entire body - not just his arms - as average hitters ("extending") tend to do. 4) Bonds has performed less well in Home Run Derbies than one might expect because he has no excuse to wear a "protector" facing a batting practice pitcher. As he tires, his front arm elbow tends to lift and he swings under the ball, producing towering pop flies or topspin liners that stay in the park. When the apparatus is worn, its weight keeps his elbow down and he drives the ball with backspin. 5) Bonds enjoys quicker access to the inside pitch than average hitters because his "assistant" - counter-intuitively - allows him to turn more rapidly. Everyone understands that skaters accelerate their spins by pulling their arms into their torsos, closer to their axes of rotation. When Bonds is confronted with an inside pitch, he spins like a skater because his upper front arm is "assistant"-sealed tightly against the side of his chest. 6) At impact, Bonds has additional mass (the weight of his "assistant") not available to the average hitter. The combined weight of "assistant" and bat is probably equal to the weight of the lumber wielded by Babe Ruth but with more manageable weight distribution. At the moment, Bonds' apparatus enjoys "grandfathered" status. Similar devices are presently denied to average major leaguers, who must present evidence of injury before receiving an exemption. Bonds has worn some sort of front arm protection since 1992. In '94, a one-piece forearm guard was replaced by a jointed, two piece elbow model. In ‘95 it got bigger and a small "cap" on the elbow was replaced by a "flap" that overlapped the upper piece and locked the two pieces together when the arm was elongated. In '96, the "apparatus" grew even larger and so did the "flap." It seems to have remained relatively the same until -- interestingly— 2001, the year of his record 73 home runs, when an advanced model appeared made (apparently) of a new material. It had softer edges and a groove for the flap to slip into automatically at full arm elongation. More important, the upper half of the machine was sculpted to conform more comfortably to the contours of Bonds' upper arm. Since 2001, the apparatus seems to have remained relatively unchanged. Several years back, baseball was rightfully scandalized by the revelation that Sammy Sosa had "corked" his bat. The advantages conferred by the Bonds "hitting machine," however, far exceed anything supplied by cork. Ultimately, it appears the Bonds "achievement” must be regarded as partly the product of “double duplicity" -- steroidal and mechanical. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Witte (gmitchell@editorandpublisher.com) is a well-known illustrator whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, Time, Sports Illustrated, The Wall Street Journal and dozens of other publications. The New Yorker recently wrote a piece about him and his study of mechanics. He appeared on network TV coverage of the 2003 World Series, providing cartoon sketches of some of the action.