Master Index of Archived Threads


All this winning is terrible...

Centerfield Jun 26 2007 11:14 AM

...if management takes it as a sign that everything is okay. Four game win streaks are nice, but two of the wins came with the Mets scoring 3 runs in 20 innings. Blanton and Maroth are good pitchers, but it's not like this was Brandon Webb and Jake Peavy. The offense has been bad for some time now and it's getting to the point that just waiting for these guys to come around may not be the answer. Of our 8 regulars, it seems pretty likely now that five of them (Delgado, Beltran, Wright, LoDuca and Valentin) have taken a step back from their 2006 numbers. (Some more than others, Paul LoDuca and Carlos Delgado both sports OPS under .700. Beltran is below .800). Alou, and his replacements, have given us little in LF. The only players producing at the same level or higher are Green and Reyes. I'd love to see the team get a starting pitcher, but I think the much bigger need is a run-producing corner outfielder.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2007 11:20 AM

]I'd love to see the team get a starting pitcher, but I think the much bigger need is a run-producing corner outfielder. Me too. Especially since Alou and Green are unsigned beyond this year. There's room for another outfielder or two in 2008. I don't think it's likely that the outfield of the future (Beltran/Gomez/F. Martinez/Milledge) is going to be sufficient for next season, so they'll need to get somebody. And they might as well get that somebody during this season, when he might be a difference maker either in the pennant race or in the postseason.

metirish Jun 26 2007 11:25 AM

Jermaine Dye gets mentioned a lot,he's a FA after the season,what would it take to get him and would the Mets want to sign him for the next few seasons...I really don't like guys that can walk but if he's the difference maker I suppose it's worth the risk....figures to be a lot of teams wanting him though....is he injured right now?

Edgy DC Jun 26 2007 11:57 AM

I don't particuarly need an outfielder. I'm enjoying playing a little Russian Roulette watching Green's resuscitation, Gomez's development, and Alou's daily drama, but it's continually hard to fathom all the talk about pitching help in light of the offense's struggles.

Mr. Zero Jun 26 2007 12:13 PM

Dye is a recent member of the "nagging quad" club.

seawolf17 Jun 26 2007 12:29 PM

Yeah, Dye's hurt. I'd like to see another bat too, but I don't know how they'll get anyone else to fit. Unless Alou is done done, then where do you stick him and Green if you add a healthy Jermaine Dye? I don't know that either one gives you anything off the bench, and neither one is likely to be dealt or cut. Maybe we can resurrect Ryne Sandberg and stick him at second base and get some extra offense that way.

RealityChuck Jun 26 2007 12:39 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I don't particuarly need an outfielder. I'm enjoying playing a little Russian Roulette watching Green's resuscitation, Gomez's development, and Alou's daily drama, but it's continually hard to fathom all the talk about pitching help in light of the offense's struggles. Because the team was supposed to have iffy starting pitching this year, and when sportswriters get an idea into their head at the beginning of the season, it remains until the end (because otherwise, they would be wrong about something). The problems with the starting pitching all assumed worse-case scenarios for all players; an average scenario meant the pitching would be adequate. It would be nice to get another hitter to take up the slack, but that's Fantasy, not reality. The team can win with what it has.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2007 12:47 PM

Well, yeah, they CAN win with what they have. They can also finish in third place with what they have. There's certainly room for improvement with the 2007 Mets. I don't like the idea of not doing anything because they might be good enough.

iramets Jun 26 2007 12:52 PM

Agreed, Mr. Gang. Also RealityChuck wrote: It would be nice to get another hitter to take up the slack, but that's Fantasy, not reality. The team can win with what it has. it's only Fantasy until it happens, which for all you know Omar is frantically working on 24/7 these days. Then it's reality, and your line at that point , sweet Chuck, then becomes "Yes! We needed another hitter all along! How brilliant is Omar? I knew he could come through!" Or will you denounce the move, claiming that Omar was living in a fantasy world? I doubt it very much. Whatever the effect, you always know the cause, don't you? It gets tougher the other way around.

Centerfield Jun 26 2007 12:55 PM

What Yancy said. I also don't see having an extra outfielder when Alou comes back as a problem. Platoon Green and Alou if need be. Have one guy be the first guy off the bench. I'd certainly rather see Alou pinch-hitting in a key spot than Julio Franco. When they passed on Zito, Omar mentioned that a plus from that was financial flexibility during the season. That means they have money to spend...spend it.

Frayed Knot Jun 26 2007 01:52 PM

Dye - who, to my surprise, is only 33 - is having a Delgado-type year and has had more of that type of so-so year than he has real good (2006) ones. IOW, Delgado is at least as likely to perk up the offense as an influx of Dye is. I'm not objecting to bringing in another bat but I'm not sure I'd want it to be him.

Rotblatt Jun 26 2007 02:10 PM

I agree. I don't mind adding another pitcher, provided he's either young & talented or just plain underrated, but I hardly think it should be a priority. A corner outfielder with a little pop and good OBP would go a long way for us. AND could allow us the flexibility to put Beltran on the DL or at least give him a few days off, which we don't really have now. Or allow us to play Green at first more often, and bench Delgado, who is just killing us offensively. He's got an OPS+ of 84, or right around replacement level. And he's a fucking first baseman--and a poor one defensively, at that. If Alou & Milledge were healthy, I think we'd be alright, but Alou sounds nowhere near healthy at the moment.

Johnny Dickshot Jun 26 2007 02:30 PM

No improving the offense without improving the Carloses too. I don;t see them going away.

Elster88 Jun 26 2007 04:55 PM

I don't see how bringing Dye in helps. Hasn't he been terrible this year? I think Alou will be around for the playoffs, which is what we need. And I think we'll make the playoffs with what we have. Next year Gomez starts in right and Gotay at second. Then we'll need a leftfielder.

Elster88 Jun 26 2007 04:56 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Well, yeah, they CAN win with what they have. They can also finish in third place with what they have. There's certainly room for improvement with the 2007 Mets. I don't like the idea of not doing anything because they might be good enough. Well yeah they can finish anywhere between first and last with what they have. Like any other year. So that's not helpful. But here's a question: If they don't make any moves for the year, what place do you think they will finish in? I say first. And my guess is Alou magically feels well enough to play come playoff time. And then we'll be rid of him for 2008. I'd like them to get Oswalt because I'd like our rotation solidified for the playoffs. And because he's under contract and Glavine is getting old. I don't see much point to bringing in a guy like Jermaine Dye.

Gwreck Jun 26 2007 10:02 PM

Elster88 wrote: I'd like them to get Oswalt because I'd like our rotation solidified for the playoffs. And because he's under contract and Glavine is getting old. The chance of getting Oswalt, now that he's signed a lengthy contract extension for a reasonable price is less than zero.

Edgy DC Jun 26 2007 10:13 PM

Calling Mr. Oswalt with the rebel flag tattoo There is a vacancy for pitchers who don't practice no voodoo Carving "S" for "Schoeneweis" here on Willie Randolph's head When we've had enough of that, maybe we'll finally get to bed To feel like we're alive before we wish that we were dead Call Mike and Mad Dog, no one listening will suspect Offer trade proposals for your strange scenario They think they can land him for Mulvey Chance of that is less than zero

metsmarathon Jun 26 2007 10:28 PM

we could target ken griffey jr...

Elster88 Jun 27 2007 05:34 AM

Gwreck wrote: ="Elster88"]I'd like them to get Oswalt because I'd like our rotation solidified for the playoffs. And because he's under contract and Glavine is getting old. The chance of getting Oswalt, now that he's signed a lengthy contract extension for a reasonable price is less than zero. Of course you have no way of knowing if this is true or not.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 27 2007 07:14 AM

Elster88 wrote: Well yeah they can finish anywhere between first and last with what they have. Like any other year. So that's not helpful. But here's a question: If they don't make any moves for the year, what place do you think they will finish in? I'm saying that without making a move, they're as likely to finish in third place as they are to finish in first.

metirish Jun 27 2007 07:32 AM

Johnette Howard on weather the Mets need an arm or bat. [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-sbhow275271710jun27,0,2449113.column?coll=ny-sports-headlines]Big Bat theory[/url]

Edgy DC Jun 27 2007 07:46 AM

="Elster88"] ="Gwreck"] ="Elster88"]I'd like them to get Oswalt because I'd like our rotation solidified for the playoffs. And because he's under contract and Glavine is getting old. The chance of getting Oswalt, now that he's signed a lengthy contract extension for a reasonable price is less than zero. Of course you have no way of knowing if this is true or not. Actually, I do, in that "less than zero" is a mathematically impossible probablility. (Sucka thinks he's gonna be the pedant around here. Uh-uh.)

Elster88 Jun 27 2007 10:23 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="Elster88"]Well yeah they can finish anywhere between first and last with what they have. Like any other year. So that's not helpful. But here's a question: If they don't make any moves for the year, what place do you think they will finish in? I'm saying that without making a move, they're as likely to finish in third place as they are to finish in first. Ugh, I hope not. I still think they have the talent to finish first as the team stands.

Gwreck Jun 27 2007 11:07 AM

Elster88 wrote: ="Gwreck"] Elster88 wrote: I'd like them to get Oswalt because I'd like our rotation solidified for the playoffs. And because he's under contract and Glavine is getting old. The chance of getting Oswalt, now that he's signed a lengthy contract extension for a reasonable price is less than zero. Of course you have no way of knowing if this is true or not. He's under the Astros control until 2012. The contract extension was 5 years at 75 million (plus a $16 mil club option for 2012), which is under market value. Is my name Tim Purpura? No. Am I sure he's not being traded? Yes.

Elster88 Jun 27 2007 08:54 PM

Gwreck wrote: Am I sure he's not being traded? Yes. I understand you're "sure".

Gwreck Jun 27 2007 09:41 PM

Perhaps it would be better if you could provide a persuasive counterargument or proposed situation in which the Astros would deal Oswalt to the Mets.

Elster88 Jun 28 2007 07:13 PM

My contention was never that it was likely Oswalt would come here, nor do I want to start talking about WATPs like a WFAN caller that learned how to write. All I was pointing out by responding to your statement was that it's possible, that the chances are greater than "less than zero".

Gwreck Jun 28 2007 10:22 PM

Elster88 wrote: All I was pointing out by responding to your statement was that it's possible, that the chances are greater than "less than zero". Setting aside the "anything's possible, the Mets could offer Reyes, Wright, Humber and Pelfrey" types of examples, I challenge you to offer a hypothetical situation in which the Astros trade Oswalt. Did I use hyperbole? Absolutely. Am I wrong? I doubt it.

Elster88 Jun 29 2007 04:43 AM

Like I already said, I have no desire to engage in a WFAN-style WATP debate.

Willets Point Jun 29 2007 07:40 AM

I still think the Mets should trade/demote/cut all the players older than 33 and let the youngsters play. This team is going nowhere as it is.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 29 2007 08:14 AM

You've always been such an optimist. How can they give up on this season while in first place, just before a 4-game series against the second place team?

Edgy DC Jun 29 2007 08:18 AM

I thik he's crank-yanking.

Benjamin Grimm Jun 29 2007 08:30 AM

Is that anything like "taking the piss?"

Willets Point Jun 29 2007 08:33 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: You've always been such an optimist. How can they give up on this season while in first place, just before a 4-game series against the second place team? It's not about giving up. It's about making the team stronger now and in the future as opposed to *maybe* backing into the playoffs this season and then wallowing for the next 5-10 seasons behind vastly improved Braves, Phillies and Marlins teams.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2007 09:04 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2007 09:33 AM

Eveything is a maybe. No transactions guarantee anything. I hope we make those releases/demotions/trades wisely because we'd need players to help now. Allegedly Weaker Liineup Reyes, ss Lo Duca, c Beltran, cf Wright, 3b Green, rf Delgado, 1b Valentin, 2b Gomez, lf Allegedly Stronger Liineup Reyes, ss Gotay, 2b Beltran, cf Wright, 3b Green, 1b (He's 33, he gets to stay) Gomez, lf Castro, c Johnson, rf Allegedly Weaker Bench Castro Franco Easley Gotay Ledee Allegedly Stornger Bench Jose A. Reyes Andy Tracy (Or Fernando Tatis) Anderson Hernandez Jake Gautreau (or Miguel Negron or Jesus Feliciano) Chip Ambres Allegedly Weaker rotation Glavine Hernandez Maine Perez Sosa Allegedly Stronger Rortation Maine Perez Sosa Pelfrey Vargas Allegedly Weaker Pen Wagner Smith Feliciano Heilman Mota Schoeneweis Sele Allegedly Stronger Pen Smith Feliciano Heilman Mota Schoeneweis Burgos Collazo

Benjamin Grimm Jun 29 2007 09:25 AM

And among the DL guys, Alou and Pedro Martinez wouldn't be welcomed back.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2007 09:35 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2007 09:37 AM

Turns out that Green is 34. Looks like a lucky day for 32-year-old Fernando Tatis.

Willets Point Jun 29 2007 09:37 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jun 29 2007 10:00 AM

Looks good Edgy, and that's even before adding players picked up in trades from AL teams who think a Glavine or a Wagner will give them an edge and are willing to pay. As is, I'd bet the Allegedly Stronger Team could go 15-19 over a six-week period too (and score just 122 runs or 3.6 per game avg. in that time).

Edgy DC Jun 29 2007 09:40 AM

And I'd bet that that they'd be clearly worse over the final three months. We could even measure it, by projecting what reserves' stats would be over the same workload the starters have, and using the Major League equivelances for the minor leaguers.

Gwreck Jun 29 2007 10:25 AM

Elster88 wrote: Like I already said, I have no desire to engage in a WFAN-style WATP debate. If you wished to avoid WFAN-style posting, perhaps the better step would have been to avoid throwing out the names of players the Mets have no chance of acquiring. WATP = an acronym I'm unfamiliar with.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2007 10:26 AM

Wild-Assed Trade Proposal.

Frayed Knot Jun 29 2007 10:53 AM

Willets Point wrote: It's not about giving up. It's about making the team stronger now and in the future as opposed to *maybe* backing into the playoffs this season and then wallowing for the next 5-10 seasons behind vastly improved Braves, Phillies and Marlins teams. Overhauling a team that is currently in first place and has been so for virtually every day for the last year and a half is a perfectly stupid thing to do based on nothing more than an arbitrary age cutoff. Especially so when a good chunk of the supposed senior citizens are contributing quite nicely at the moment (Glavine, Wagner, Hernandez, Valentin), could very well do so before the year is out (Alou, Martinez, Delgado), and ALL have contracts running out either at the end of this year or next.

Edgy DC Jun 29 2007 10:55 AM

Which is why I think he's tapping the bladder.

Rockin' Doc Jun 29 2007 04:35 PM

WATP = Wild Ass Trade Proposal

Elster88 Jun 30 2007 04:55 PM

I think this current winning in Philly is a good thing. Not terrible.