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Drawing and Losing

Edgy DC Jul 06 2007 09:25 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 06 2007 09:36 AM

This was from a Philadephia Intelligencer columnist the other day. It was sad to see the Phils' collapse last weekend against the Mets. It was almost as sad to hear the Phils' announcers trumpeting the attendance during the broadcasts. As if it makes it OK to keep losing as long as the stadium is full. And therein lies the eternal problem with the local baseball team. As long as the fans keep showing up, there's no need to improve the team. (Granted, there were plenty of New York fans at the games, but no matter the opposition, we're always updated on how well the team is drawing, which makes me ill). What needs to be done is for you, and me, to stop going to the games. That would do it. Until ownership is hit in the pocketbook, the song will remain the same. ... Now, I've heard this logic --- a variation on the Ambler Thesis --- a lot, and there's a few things that're just being overlooked. 1) Ambler can make this argument. A writer who gets good free seats can not. 2) If you don't think people should go to the games, cover something you think they should go to. 3) The reveune from a single playoff game is really good money for a team. The notion that there's no profit motive for a team that draws to continue to improve kind of falls apart there. 4) Stadium revenues are only part of the income pie for a team --- and a smaller part than they are for a team like Pittsburgh. Staying home and watching them on Ripoff Sports Net is still good for bidness. 5) The attendance was high because Philadelphia was knocking on the door of first place with a four-game series against the first-place team (who the Phils incidentally whomped the last time out), from a nearby city that has historically kind of made Philadelphians feel second-rate just by being. You know what kind of fans go to those sorts of games? Baseball fans. That's as good as it gets, baseball-wise. You don't like it, try opera. 6) The Phils are now 4.5 games out, mid-season, with the Mets and the Braves each struggliing to construct a decent offense. You know who jumps ship at a point like this? Losers.

metirish Jul 06 2007 09:33 AM

I suspect if the Phillies had won three out of four then this columnist would be imploring the fans to keep showing up at the Park that they in fact can make a difference to the home team. Fans not showing up in the long run can get a team moved out,not that that would happen in Philly.

Edgy DC Jul 06 2007 09:37 AM

Yeah, how'd that "starve the team into success" strategy work in Montreal?

iramets Jul 06 2007 09:50 AM Re: Drawing and Losing

="Edgy DC"]This was from a Philadephia Intelligencer columnist the other day. It was sad to see the Phils' collapse last weekend against the Mets. It was almost as sad to hear the Phils' announcers trumpeting the attendance during the broadcasts. As if it makes it OK to keep losing as long as the stadium is full. And therein lies the eternal problem with the local baseball team. As long as the fans keep showing up, there's no need to improve the team. (Granted, there were plenty of New York fans at the games, but no matter the opposition, we're always updated on how well the team is drawing, which makes me ill). What needs to be done is for you, and me, to stop going to the games. That would do it. Until ownership is hit in the pocketbook, the song will remain the same. ... Now, I've heard this logic --- a variation on the Ambler Thesis --- a lot, and there's a few things that're just being overlooked. 1) Ambler can make this argument. A writer who gets good free seats can not. 2) If you don't think people should go to the games, cover something you think they should go to. 3) The reveune from a single playoff game is really good money for a team. The notion that there's no profit motive for a team that draws to continue to improve kind of falls apart there. 4) Stadium revenues are only part of the income pie for a team --- and a smaller part than they are for a team like Pittsburgh. Staying home and watching them on Ripoff Sports Net is still good for bidness. 5) The attendance was high because Philadelphia was knocking on the door of first place with a four-game series against the first-place team (who the Phils incidentally whomped the last time out), from a nearby city that has historically kind of made Philadelphians feel second-rate just by being. You know what kind of fans go to those sorts of games? Baseball fans. That's as good as it gets, baseball-wise. You don't like it, try opera. 6) The Phils are now 4.5 games out, mid-season, with the Mets and the Braves each struggliing to construct a decent offense. You know who jumps ship at a point like this? Losers. Dear Owner, 1)You gave me those free seats in the hope that, once I was cheaply bought off, I would devote my career to being your flack. You were wrong. 2)Why don't you concentrate on putting a quality product on the field, and let me worry about what I'll choose to cover, okay? Self-interest much? 3) Holy Shit! You're telling me that teams make money from extra sellout post-season games? Stop the freaking presses! 4)Okay, so let's see what happens then if no one shows up at the ballpark and your revenue stream is flooded by all the fan interest on TV. Don't matter to you, right? TV, paid attendance, it's all good. So let's try it and then re-assess whether you need fannies in the seats or if I'm just bluffing that you'll be hurt by 4,000 Paid Attendence games. 5)What's your point? I'm a fake baseball fan if I decline to put my money in your undeserving pocket? Okay, I'm a fake baseball fan, and a cretin, and a poo-poo head. You still ain't getting my green. 6) Ohhh, I get it. YOU'RE finishing out of the money for the umteenth straight year, and I'M the loser because I'm pointing out that salient fact. Good one. Sincerely, Joe Journalist

Edgy DC Jul 06 2007 10:40 AM

I'm not the owner. I'm a fan of the other team who thinks calling for a fan boycott when your team is 4.5 out with 81 to play exibits a lack of perspective.

iramets Jul 06 2007 11:10 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm not the owner. I'm a fan of the other team who thinks calling for a fan boycott when your team is 4.5 out with 81 to play exibits a lack of perspective. Oh. Then this is easy. Don't buy my fucking paper if you're so offended by ideas other than your own. Sincerely, Joe J.

Edgy DC Jul 06 2007 11:13 AM

Thanks. I think I make it clear that it's the lack of perspective I object to. Try to be less. Please.

martin Jul 06 2007 11:21 AM Re: Drawing and Losing

iramets wrote: Self-interest much? is this how people phrase things nowadays? i dont like it, it doesnt make sense to me.

iramets Jul 06 2007 11:29 AM

"Lack of perspective" and "A perspective different from my own" are pretty close. A journalist might simply say "I don't get it? No, my little friend, it's you who doesn't get it." What're you going to say to that? "No, my little friend, it's YOU...." and bbbyyy? The guy is simply seeking to organize an outcome that's pretty inevitable: when a team doesn't win, its fans stop showing up as much. He's looking to put the Phils ownership on notice that thte natives are restless, and he's beginning by agitating the natives. Seems as good a tack as any to take. There'll always be some "Stay the Course" zombies, some "Ya Gotta Believe" mouthbreathers, etc, whether the team is 4.5 games out in July or 45 games games out in mid-July. But fans are by their nature impatient with losing, and are willing to shrug off the opinions of those who never think that it's appropriate to back up the truck, pull the trigger, set a few heads rolling, and so on.

metirish Jul 06 2007 11:33 AM

Philly is a football town,or so I have heard it said,the baseball team has lost 10,000 games or are close to. When football starts whatever fans are going to Chase Field will be hardcore fans,the rest will be at the link.

Edgy DC Jul 06 2007 11:33 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 06 2007 02:00 PM

They are winning, unless you take a 4-game sample. They are still slightly above even, and in a position to strike. That's a lack of perspective, objectively speaking. If Philadelphia fans want to revolt against their team, its good news for the Mets.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 06 2007 11:37 AM

I don't see why a reporter needs to tell people to stay home, or to support the team. If I want to spend my money on baseball tickets, nobody should tell me I shouldn't. If I think that by buying tickets I'd be supporting a team that doesn't deserve that support, than nobody should tell me that I ought to be out there cheering on my team. Each individual fan can allot as much, or as little, money and time to their team as they see fit. There's no right or wrong.

iramets Jul 06 2007 11:42 AM Re: Drawing and Losing

martin wrote: ="iramets"]Self-interest much? is this how people phrase things nowadays? i dont like it, it doesnt make sense to me. Your final "sentence" has two independent clauses spliced together by a comma, resulting in a lack of stylistic felicity. Also, you seem not to understand the use of capital letters, nor the use of apostrophes. In other words, blow me.

martin Jul 06 2007 01:57 PM Re: Drawing and Losing

iramets wrote: In other words, blow me. heh. i kinda wish i participated in this forum more so we could insult each other more often. you make a good villain. a "love to hate em" sort of fella. don't ever change.

G-Fafif Jul 06 2007 02:20 PM

The "don't go, it's only encouraging them" argument is a familiar one. Allegedly the Maras in the late '70s would never fix the football Giants because the same 77,691 would show up at the Meadowlands regardless of record. Some tickets were burned, a plane flew a disagreeable message (15 YEARS OF LOUSY FOOTBALL -- WE'VE HAD ENOUGH) and a handoff turned into a calamity if not necessarily in that order. But Giants fans kept going. And the team got better. The Maras didn't like losing any more than their fans did. The Phillies have drawn very well since Citizens Bank opened. The novelty has not worn off and the Phillies have been competitive if not ultimately successful these past few seasons. It's a pretty good business model, on the field and off. Had the Phillies won three of four, would the attendance be hailed by this columnist as the fuel allowing the team to make such great progress, so let's keep going? I'm not tuned into the Philies' front office, but I'm assuming its trying to build and maintain a winner. To suggest you, the Phillies fan, are making them too phat and happy with coming up short by spending your entertainment dollar with them seems rather ludicrous. The CBP novelty will wear off eventually anyway.

iramets Jul 06 2007 03:35 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Try to be less. Please. You're so very, Heather. Historically, you know there have been franchise owners who felt and behaved as if the fans will buy tickets whatever the team's recent results, that the fans don't understand the game as a business, that the fans will remain loyal, that the management team is doing well, results notwithstanding, ad nauseum, and a fan revolt (even with luny arguments being made frequently) acts as a corrective to clueless management. Of course they won't admit that as a factor, (I wouldn't either) but I'm not sure that on some level, declining ticket sales isn't what finally motivates them to hold that crucial "Something isn't working here" meeting.