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Knicks Suck: Reloaded 2007-2008

Vic Sage Jun 28 2007 10:08 AM

With the NBA draft tonight, its time to kick off the Knickerbocker thread for the new season. Unfortunately, it seems Isiah is picking up where he left off last year, as he is projected to select Wilson Chandler (?) with the 23rd pick. http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=505 Sure, we need a small forward. But we need one that's smart, plays with intensity, takes care of the ball and has the necessary skills to step out and hit a long jumper, which would open up the low post for Curry and allow Marbury and Crawford to drive the lane. Basically, we need Morris Almond, or a similar type that may be available at #23.. While Chandler is strong and fast and can jump out o the gym, he's a passive player that takes bad shots, has a low BB IQ, and is, basically, a raw underclassman with underdeveloped NBA skills. He is, like Balkman last year, projected as a 2nd rounder... a developmental--type pick with a high upside. So why Chandler? Apparently, because Zeke favors athleticism over skills or intensity or IQ. He favors potential over production. He has an overbearing hubris to prove himself a brilliant talent evaluator by gambling on a high-ceiling guy. This, of course, will do nothing to improve the 07-08 Knicks, but if he's right about Chandler, it will serve the organization well down the road. Depth Chart: PG: Marbury / Francis / Collins SG: Crawford / Robinson SF: Q-Rich / Balkman / Chandler (?) PF: Lee / Jeffries / Rose C: Curry / Frye / James / R.Morris 10-man rotation: - starters: Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Lee / Curry - in rotation: Collins / Robinson / Balkman / Jeffries / Frye - bench: Rose / James - reserve: Morris / Chandler (?) / ______ (?) - traded: Francis (at least) Knicks 06-07 MVP: David Lee Knicks 07-08.... Let the debacle begin!

metirish Jun 28 2007 10:35 AM

Don't want to sound crazy here but I trust Thomas in the draft ,don't like seeing David Lee constantly mentioned as trade bait,the annual Garnett to NY rumors are up again,such a pipe dream.

Vic Sage Jun 28 2007 10:44 AM

I think Isiah's rep as a good drafter is a bit overstated. He prefers to draft "athletes", so they tend to have a high upside, if they can develop skills. But they can also go bust more readily. It's a high risk/high reward approach. As for Lee, if Isiah trades him I'll be furious. He was far and away the Knicks' best player last year, despite the late-season injury. A tenacious, smart, hard-working, energetic, positive guy, Lee has great hands that allows him to excel as a rebounder, ball-handler, passer and low-post scorer. If he ever develops a consistent mid-range jumper that he's not to timid to take, he'll be an all-star.

OlerudOwned Jun 28 2007 12:09 PM

Lee and Balkman were basically the only reasons I got back into the Knicks. If they trade Lee, forget it. I'll find something new to hold me over until hockey season.

metirish Jun 28 2007 12:28 PM

From what I read Balkman is the reason Thomas would entertain trading Lee,but looking at it form a marketing point of view it would be crazy,Lee is a very marketable commodity for the Knicks ,he's white ,can play and seems like a good guy....

Vic Sage Jun 28 2007 01:19 PM

balkman is a SF, and too small to play PF, so i don't understand what his presence on the roster has to do with Lee's availability. They may have similar skills, but they play different positions and have different upsides. Lee is a 12-15pt/10-12reb/3-5asst/1-2blk/35min guy. He could even become a 20/10 guy, if he improves and takes a mid-range jumper. Balkman is more of a part-timer, with too many limitations as a scorer and at his size to play full-time. I like him, but all he'll be is a nice guy to have coming off then bench for 20m/gm. If they trade Lee, then who? Frye at PF? please. If he were any softer, he could fill a sugar cone. Jeffries? yeah, he's good for 4pts/gm. Like i said, Lee (not Curry) was the team MVP last year, and the best all-around player on the team. Trading him for anything but as part of a package for a young-ish, blue-chip stud would be madness.

OlerudOwned Jun 28 2007 07:17 PM

Holy crap holy crap holy crap the Knicks just made an outstanding trade. Zach Randolph, Disaster Dan Dickau, and Fred Jones for Frye and Francis. Isiah just took somebody to cleaners. I don't know how to feel right now.

metirish Jun 28 2007 07:28 PM

WOW..from Newday ] The Knicks are close to acquiring Zach Randolph from the Trail Blazers in a deal that would send Channing Frye and Steve Francis to Portland, a person with knowledge of the situation told Newsday. Besides adding another post scorer to complement Eddy Curry, the Knicks also will unburden themselves from the $33.6 million due Francis the next two years and also get guard Fred Jones to make the salaries match. Randolph, 25, averaged 23.6 points and 10.1 rebounds last season, the second 20-10 season of his six-year career. But his off-court issues, including a sexual assault complaint against him that never resulted in charges, prompted the Blazers to shop him this summer in an ongoing effort to clean up their image. The Knicks are not trying to clean anything, only get better. And as long as Randolph can keep his head on straight, this trade certainly makes them better if it goes through as expected. Isiah Thomas, who has been positioning himself for weeks to pull off an impact trade, had to do something after the Celtics traded the No. 5 pick to Seattle in a package deal that brought Ray Allen to Boston. That gives the Celtics a combination of Allen, Paul Pierce and Al Jefferson that will be formidable in the Eastern Conference.

MFS62 Jun 28 2007 07:29 PM

What a fucking bush league grandstand play. To announce the trade when the Nets had a minute to go before their pick was announced. Fuck you, Isiah. Fuck you, Stephen A. Smith Fuck you, Spike Lee Fuck you all. Later

metirish Jun 28 2007 07:31 PM

Why would the Knicks care about the Nets,a team that moving into their back yard.

OlerudOwned Jun 28 2007 07:40 PM

="MFS62"]What a fucking bush league grandstand play. To announce the trade when the Nets had a minute to go before their pick was announced. Fuck you, Isiah. Fuck you, Stephen A. Smith Fuck you, Spike Lee Fuck you all. Later That's not the Knicks fault, that's ESPN. The trade was reported on SLAM 45 freaking minutes before ESPN, and about a half hour earlier on Yahoo. ESPN played it up for drama because they suck.

Nymr83 Jun 28 2007 11:47 PM

I can't see how this trade could hurt, Randolph's contract sucks even more than Francis' but who cares? the Knicks are over the cap from now until judgment day anyway. the Knicks did take the Chandler guy for anyone who cared and wasn't watching.

metirish Jun 29 2007 08:57 AM

How does this work with Curry,aren't both the same type of player,does this mean less minutes for Lee...

Vic Sage Jun 29 2007 10:42 AM

]How does this work with Curry the same way it would work with saag, vindaloo or khurma. ]aren't both the same type of player, no. Randolph is a GOOD player. ]does this mean less minutes for Lee... unfortunately, yes, which is why i don't like the trade. we needed an outside shooter to open up the middle for Curry, and for the guards to drive. Instead, we got another low-post roadblock clogging up the middle. Randolph and Curry will be stepping on each other's feet, and the opposing defense will collapse on them, leaving no room for Starbury to drive or dish. He'll be the designated jump shooter, which is not really his speciality. Don't get me wrong... I'm happy to be shed of Francis and Mr. Softee, and i like that we also got the 2nd round pick Demetrius Nichols from Syracuse. But, D.Lee is on the verge of becoming a quality starter, and Randolph will reduce him to a frontcourt backup. And the trickle down effect may also limit Balkman's minutes, which is also not great news. I'd still like to see Isiah get a 20pt sharp-shooter with range, who plays defense... basically, a Quentin Richardson type, when Q-Rich was actually good, consistent and healthy. We should have taken Almond. Depth Chart: PG: Marbury / Collins / Dickau* SG: Crawford / Robinson / F. Jones* SF: Q-Rich / Jeffries / Balkman / Nichols / Chandler PF: Randolph / Lee / Rose C: Curry / James / R.Morris *Knicks are 2 players over the 15-man limit. Portland throw-ins Dickau and Jones may get bought out. 9-man rotation: - starters: Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Randolph / Curry - in rotation: Collins / Robinson / Jeffries / Lee - bench: Rose / Balkman / James - reserve: Morris / Chandler / Nichols - traded/released: Dickau / Jones SHOULD be traded: James, Jeffries, Rose, Robinson, Dickau, Jones TEAM NEEDS: outside shooting, shot blocker, defensive intensity, new owner

Centerfield Jun 29 2007 11:07 AM

Vic Sage wrote: i like that we also got the 2nd round pick Demetrius Nichols from Syracuse. You will not feel this way for long.

Vic Sage Jun 29 2007 11:11 AM

why? whats wrong with him? I heard he can shoot, which we need.

Vic Sage Jul 10 2007 10:03 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Jul 12 2007 08:37 AM

I watched some of the Knicks' first summer league game last night, against Seattle. some observations: - Balkman is an exciting, explosive, multi-dimensional player who deserves more playing time. - Nichols looked good, too, hitting some 3s from the corner, and playing more SG than SF. - Morris is a big fella, rebounded and clogged the middle. Doesn't seem to have much shooting touch, though. - Chandler looks more polished than i was led to believe by scouting reports. He rebounded, passed, blocked shots, played defense, as well as hit mid-range jumpers and finished around the basket. He played under control, unlike... - ...Robinson, who knows he is fighting for his job, and so is trying to play a more heads-up game, trying to be more PG than just a SG. But he often reverted to type, driving to the hoop against 3 sonics in the lane rather than dishing it. He's quite talented, but I'd love to see him get traded. - Q-Rich was talking to Clyde on the sidelines, and said (i)) his back was all better after surgery, (ii) everybody can't score 20 and he's prepared to sacrifice to win, and (iii) Curry has been working out in the gym, uncoerced, and is in game shape. - David Lee isn't 100% yet, which is worrying. Amidst the recent reports about the Knicks persuing Artest, I was relieved to hear that Zeke has been saying that Lee and Balkman are not available in such a deal (for Kobe or Garnett, maybe, but not for Artest). Now i'd happily send them the expiring deals of Rose and Dickau, along with the talented Robinson, to get Artest. I don't think they'd be interested in that package, however. But I think the longer Zeke holds out on pursuing Artest, the less they'll take for him. Regardless, he can opt out next year and sign with the Knicks anyway, in a sign-and-trade. Depth Chart (17): PG -- Marbury / Collins / Dickau* SG -- Crawford / Robinson / F. Jones / Nichols SF -- Q-Rich / Balkman / Jeffries / Chandler PF -- Randolph / Lee / Rose* C -- Curry / James / R.Morris Rotation (9): - starters: Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Randolph / Curry - in rotation: Collins / Balkman / Lee / James Bench (3): - Robinson / Jones / Jeffries Reserve (3): - Morris / Chandler / Nichols * could be traded/released (2): - Dickau / Rose

Centerfield Jul 10 2007 10:51 AM

Vic Sage wrote: why? whats wrong with him? I heard he can shoot, which we need. Sorry I missed this before. There's nothing really wrong with him, it was just more sour grapes from a Syracuse fan who is disappointed that Nichols never turned out to be the player we hoped he'd be. When he was a freshman, he was a guy with good size and a good jumpshot. He just never really became that star-player. He had a great senior year, put up big numbers, but was invisible in a lot of big games...especially when you need your star to come up with a big shot. Also, besides his jumper, there is very little he does well. Not a great defender, or rebounder, and isn't great at creating his own shot. (He did develop a step-back jumper his senior year.) Who knows, he might turn out to be a decent pro. I'm awful at predicting a college star's potentional in the NBA.

Vic Sage Jul 10 2007 11:57 AM

He sounds like Allan Houston, which worked out pretty well for Allan Houston.

Methead Jul 10 2007 12:21 PM

Apparently he did a nice job in his first game, scoring 13 points. He didn't shoot well from the outside, oddly enough. And he blocked two of Kevin Durant's shots, one of 'em a layup. Who says he can't play defense?

Vic Sage Jul 10 2007 12:22 PM

[u:ab51b9d590]Summer league roster:[/u:ab51b9d590] current knicks roster -- G: Mardy Collins / 6′6 /220 / 8.4.1984 / Temple / New York (NBA) 1 G: Nate Robinson / 5′9 /180 / 5.31.84 / Washington / New York (NBA) 2 F: Renaldo Balkman / 6′8 / 208 / 7.14.1984 / South Carolina / New York (NBA) 1 C: Randolph Morris / 6′11 / 260 / 1.2.1986 / Kentucky /New York (NBA) 1 draft picks -- F: Wilson Chandler 6′8 / 230 / 5.10.87 / DePaul (NCAA) R F: Demetrius Nichols / 6′8 / 216 / 9.4.1984 / Syracuse (NCAA) R college FA -- G: Roderick Wilmont / 6′4 / 203 / 7.28.1983 / Indiana (NCAA) R Developmental league -- G: Olu Famutimi / 6′4 / 207 / 2.21.1984 / Arkansas / Arkansas (NBADL) R Foreign leagues -- G: Ali Berdiel / 6′6 / 200 / 12.27.1983 / Valparaiso / Hainaut (Belgium) R G: Tre Simmons / 6′5 / 200 / 7.24.1982 / Washington / Gran Canaria (ULEB) R G: Kelvin Torbert / 6′4 / 210 / 5.5.83 / Michigan State / Euphony(Belgium) R F: Brian Greene / 6′7 / 225 / 8.30.1981 / Colorado State / Villeurbanne (France) R F: Dylan Page / 6′9 / 240 / 3.28.1982 / Wisconsin-Milwaukee / Drac Inca (Spain) R C: Alex Bougaieff / 6′11 /235 / 4.15.1977 / Rice /SPO Rouen (France) R

Vic Sage Jul 12 2007 08:35 AM

Las Vegas Summer League, Game 2: 7/11/07 New York 88, Team China 65 My box score observations: - Demetrius "the Gladiator" Nichols again played well off the bench, scoring an efficient 14pts on 7 field goal attempts, adding 3 assts and 1 reb (with 1 TO), in only 16+ minutes; - Randolph "Mercury" Morris scored an equally efficient 10 pts on 5 shots, with 6 reb (4 off), 1 blk, but with 5 TOs and a staggering 7 fouls in only 22+ minutes; - The Balk Man's stat line is that of a tazmanian devil: 10 pts on 6 shots, 7 reb (4 off reb), 5 steals, 2 blocks, 2 assts (albeit with 4 TOs), all in 24+ minutes; - 'Mookie' Wilson Chandler chipped in nicely in all depts: 8 pts on 7 shots, 5reb, 3asst, 1 blk, with only 1 TO, in 21+ min; and - Nate "the Great" Robinson led in playing time with 25+ min, and scored 11 pts on 9 shots, with 3 assts (but 4 TOs), 2 reb, 1 stl. - Mardy Collins is on the roster but still a no - show, rehabbing from off-season surgery.

A Boy Named Seo Jul 12 2007 09:21 AM

Vic's already in mid-season form. The Clipper ships are apparently hot for your sloppy seconds, looking to get Steve Francis to sign. What's more pathetic is that with Cassell aging faster than that Nazi who drank from the wrong cup in the last Indiana Jones movie and poor Shaun Livingston recovering from that sickening knee injury, Francis is actually a decent option for us. I can't wait for the Clips second round pick, a "heady" point guard out of Marist named Jared Jordan, to be ready. He sounds amazing.

Vic Sage Jul 16 2007 12:54 PM

With victory over Nuggets, Knicks went undefeated in summer league (5-0), to finished tied for 1st with Dallas Mavs. Nate the Great was named league MVP. http://www.nba.com/summerleague2007/ Nuggets box score observations: - Nate scored 24pts on 12 shots (!), with 5 rebs and 2 assts, but he had 6 fouts and 3 TOs as well. I'm glad he's played well out there, so maybe he's increased his trade value? - Nichols filled it once again, with 23 pts on 16 shots, adding 4 rebs and and 3 assts, with only 1 TO. This kid looks good on paper. They're talking about stashing him in Europe for a year, to ease their roster glut. - Chandler showed another balanced game, with 15 pts, 10 rebs and 3 blks. I like this kid! - and The Balk Man continues to energize with 9 pts, 7 rebs and 5 assts (only 1 TO). His ball-handling, passing, strength and quickness reminds me of a slightly smaller, quicker Anthony Mason, with similar hair quirkiness. - Big Randy Morris continued to produce, going 10pt/10reb, albeit with an ongoing fouling problem he needs to address. 2007 Summer League Final Averages Nate Robinson: 29.8 mpg .483 fg% / 3.6 reb / 6 ass / 4.2 TO / 3 PF / 19.6 PPG Demetris Nichols: 24.4 mpg / .526 fg% / 2 reb / 2.6 ass / 1.4 TO / 2 PF / 15.6 ppg Wilson Chandler: 28.2 mpg / .509 fg% /5.2 reb / 1.8 ass / 1 st / 2 blk / 1.4 TO / 3 PF / 13.4 ppg Renaldo Balkman: 27.4 mpg /.467 fg% /7.6 reb / 2.2 ass / 2.2 st / 1.8 blk / 3.2 TO / 4 PF / 13.2 ppg Randolph Morris: 27 mpg / .633 fg% /9.2 reb /1 stl /1.2 blk /3.8 TO /3 PF / 11.2 ppg

Elster88 Jul 16 2007 09:27 PM

Great stuff Vic, you are a big-time fan. Vic Sage wrote: Nate the Great was named league MVP. I am distressed that the summer league names an MVP

metirish Jul 19 2007 07:20 AM

Vic,would you agree with the sentiment of this article? [url=http://www.slate.com/id/2170558/nav/tap3/]The sloppy, bizarre, freewheeling, wonderful NBA summer league[/url]

Vic Sage Jul 19 2007 09:29 AM

i agree with his description of the players (top picks and fringe guys in foreign leagues trying to get an NBA job), and the nature of the league's play... wide open, unstructured, free-wheeling and fun, albeit sloppy to the point of hilarity. i disagree with his implication that little can be learned about how these guys' performance will translate to the NBA. I can definitely tell the nature of the skills players have from watching these games. Of course you can't tell how skills will translate into production from one context to another (whether its college, foreign leagues, or the summer league), but you can definitely get a sense of what guys can do what, and whose been working to develop new skills. Watching Wilson Chandler this summer has eased my concerns, because i saw a guy who is not only an "athlete" (a description that always worries me), but a real basketball player with a wide range of skills and a shot much further along than i was led to believe. I now think i can see what Zeke saw in him. Of course, i have no idea if the bigger, stronger, faster, and ocasionally more disciplined NBA game will suit him, but i think you could watch him play and understand why he should be given a chance to make it. Last summer, i saw David Lee play and immediately saw a player developing quickly who could have a real impact on a game. He wasn't just a greg butler-type "white guy at the end of the bench". And as it turned out, he was probably the best player on the team last year. This year, in addition to Chandler, Renaldo Balkman showed not only his energy and defensive tenacity (which you could see in bursts last season), but an ability to handle the ball as a "point forward" of sorts, that suddenly made me think of Anthony Mason. So now i'm thinking he should definitely be given more of a role next year, and i think he can have an impact. But despite the league MVP award, Nate the great didn't fool me. I saw a guy trying to play more like a PG, but every time he still had the ball after a play failed to develop immediately, he'd just take it to the hoop himself. I'm happy he produced numbers, but only because i think it increased his trade value. I'd be happy to see him go. Demetrius the Gladiator and Dandy Randy Morris showed flashes, but also showed flaws that don't lead me to any conclusions about them, one way or the other. I knew Nichols could shoot, and he showed he could. But he didn't show much else. And Morris is big, and plays big, but he seemed to get 10 fouls per game. Which, you know, really doesn't work in the NBA. So, the jury is still out on these 2. But i don't think we need to sell the farm to fill a hole at small forward, with guys like Balkman and Chandler already here, and Lee and Richardson able to play there as well. and that's an assessment about the knicks i couldn't have come to without watching the summer league.

Elster88 Jul 22 2007 02:25 PM

Nymr83 wrote: Randolph's contract sucks even more than Francis' but who cares? the Knicks are over the cap from now until judgment day anyway. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it would be if the Knicks hadn't subscribed to that theory five years ago they'd be under the cap now. But whatever, Knicks fans are going to be spewing that about the cap as long as they are over it.

Nymr83 Jul 22 2007 10:06 PM

I wish they'd tried to get under shortly after Ewing left town, but they didn't and right now i'm not sure that getting under for the sake of getting under is the right move, though i'd support any rebuilding effort.

Vic Sage Aug 01 2007 11:34 AM

Garnett joins Pierce and Allen in Beantown. Oh, well. There goes the East.

Edgy DC Aug 01 2007 11:40 AM

Five players, two draft picks and that much traded guy Cash Considerations. I don't follow roundball much, but an eight-for-one deal is unheard of in any sport, isn't it? Is this guy Gretzky or what?

metirish Aug 05 2007 01:58 PM

marbury drunk,stoned or maybe both.

A Boy Named Seo Aug 05 2007 02:14 PM

Is this dude making out with his sister or what? And if so, who then would he refer to, or reefer to, as his "better ho"?

metirish Aug 23 2007 10:15 AM

Hard to imagine Marbury saying anything stupid but he has...... [url=http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/08/pro-basketball-.html]Starbury Defends Vick[/url]

Edgy DC Aug 23 2007 10:23 AM

"From what I hear, dogfighting it's a sport." He's welcome to go one-on-one with a pit bull.

Johnny Dickshot Aug 23 2007 10:43 AM

Marbury may indeed be an ignorant shithead, but I've had it up to here already in dramatic media outrage. I mean, I don't doubt for a second that Marbury and Vick and whoever do justify their participation in that crap by thinking of it as a another form of hunting. What needs to be addressed (after throwing Vick in jail of course) is what happened culturally to these guys to make them think that. Columnists falling all over themselves to condemn it doesn't do anything.

metirish Aug 23 2007 10:49 AM

Have no fear Johnny,this sorry saga will open a National debate on such things as race,culture and so on,just like the Imus saga did. I think some of what you are getting at JD is that these guys are treated like big shots as far back as high school and certainly in College,I'm sure that adds to the aura of invincibility that some of them have.

Edgy DC Aug 23 2007 10:56 AM

Feel free to write that column. If there are any less than 20 basement pit fighting rings in DC, I'd be surprised.

Johnny Dickshot Aug 23 2007 11:30 AM

metirish wrote: Have no fear Johnny,this sorry saga will open a National debate on such things as race,culture and so on,just like the Imus saga did. I think some of what you are getting at JD is that these guys are treated like big shots as far back as high school and certainly in College,I'm sure that adds to the aura of invincibility that some of them have. I'm not trying to make that point at all (though I don;t disagree). What I'm saying is, we should be more concerned that the Vick arrest and Marbury comments indiacte a comfort with the "sport" that indicates it's an epidemic, rather than condemning Marbury for not falling into line and finding it abhorrent like the rest of us.

metsmarathon Aug 23 2007 12:11 PM

whether or not marbury is an idiot, a fool, or an otherwise great, magnanimouos person is besides the point here, too. whether or not stephon marbury is an athlete, a famous one, and/or black, is also besides the point. the point that marbury illustrates is that there are indeed those who feel that dogfighting is ok, and likely should not be considered a crime, and maybe should be considered a sport. the point is that those who feel that way are wrong, and should be disagreed with, and should be argued with, and should have their opinions (pie in the sky time) changed/rehabilitated. as was the problem with the imus scandal, we care more about who says what than what they said. sure, there was an attempt to refocus on the greater issue there, but once the who was gone, the what lost all its popular momentum. and that'll happen again with dogfighting, of course. as soon as vick makes his way into the correctional system, and a period of shock and awe passes by, we'll all forget about it. and surely nobody'll mention how abhorrent dogfighting is when the falcons win their first game, and certainly not if they win a second game. we'll have moved on to the next dumb thing a celebrity does that shocks and dismays us when they do it, but that we couldn't care less about if its rampant amongst the ugly people.

metirish Aug 23 2007 12:21 PM

I've read JD that dogfighting is rampant around NFL circles yet if you are to believe players and agents and others they've never heard that,Vick will pay for this with jail time and the loss of lots of money and I'm down with that but after he serves his time and shown contrition then he should get to play in the league again.I'd not be bothered if Goodell didn't ban him after he finishes his "time",there are plenty of people playing in this league who've done things that are deplorable . Did you hear that Brittney is moving to London?

A Boy Named Seo Oct 02 2007 11:42 PM

Just saw this blurb on the [url=http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/jordan_070930.html]Clips [/url]site: September 30, 2007 Clippers Trade Draft Rights to Jordan to New York Jordan The Los Angeles Clippers today traded the draft rights to point guard Jared Jordan to the New York Knicks in exchange for cash considerations. Jordan was the Clippers second round selection (45th overall) in the 2007 NBA Draft. Makes a ton of sense for the Clips. Shaun Livingston is trying to return from a completely horrific leg injury and Sam Cassell is very, very, very, very old. So desperate we were for a point, that Brevin Knight is now a Clipper. Everything I read about Jared Jordan really excited me. I'm really disapointed they moved him for nada. You gotta read this [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/the_bonus/05/24/jared.jordan/]piece [/url]on him. Enjoy.

Vic Sage Oct 04 2007 08:59 AM

Now that camp has begun, we can take another look at the current roster (with the welcome replacement of Dickau with Jordan at backup PG): Depth Chart (17): PG -- Marbury / Collins / Jordan** SG -- Crawford / Robinson / F. Jones / Nichols** SF -- Q-Rich / Balkman* / Jeffries / Chandler** PF -- Randolph / Lee / Rose C -- Curry / R.Morris** / James* Rotation (9): Starters (5): Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Randolph / Curry In rotation (4): Lee / Balkman* / Robinson / Morris** Reserves (8) Bench (3): Collins / Jeffries / Rose Reserve (3): Chandler** / Nichols** / Jordan** Traded/released? (2): James* / Jones * = injured ** = rookie With 2 players over the limit, it looks more and more likely that they're going to buy out James, and then they either need to find some place to stash Nichols for a year, or dump Fred Jones. Balkman is hurt, which will set him back, but i still think he can make an impact this year as a mini-Mason. In the meantime, Jeffries will likely get his minutes at backup SF, but i'd prefer they gave those minutes to Lee, who'll need playing time with Randolph now ahead of him. I'm excited about Jordan's potential. He could displace Collins and/or Robinson in the rotation, as the backup PG. In fact, i'm still hoping they trade the out-of-control Robinson, along with Jeffries. Unfortunately, James is probably immovable, so he remains a big fat useless drag on the roster. I'm also hoping David Stern does the right thing and suspends Isiah and Dolan.

Vic Sage Oct 05 2007 08:35 AM

More reason to hate Dolan, as if anybody needed more: ]Thursday, October 4th 2007, 11:18 PM We're all paying Garden sin tax by Michael Daly All but a fraction of the jury's award in the big sexual harassment suit will be covered by the $10.9 million tax break Madison Square Garden receives from the city each and every year. Which is another way of saying we help subsidize the piggish behavior of the rich brat who runs the Garden, James Dolan. Dolan seems to delight in what has been termed "Jim-nastics," abusing and firing the help. He has added cause to laugh every three months, when the city Department of Finance mails the Garden its property tax bill, officially known as a Quarterly Statement of Account. "WE WANT TO HELP YOU PAY THE RIGHT AMOUNT ON TIME," the top of the page announces. The building in question is listed as 420 Eighth Ave. The owner's name is "Madison Sq Garden Etc.," the etcetera in this case being Cablevision, the empire owned by the brat's generally decent father, Charles Dolan, known as "the leprechaun who can count." The bill lists the annual tax that would otherwise be due: "Tax Before Exemptions and Abatements: $10,886,054." Directly below that is the magic math the various owners of the Garden have enjoyed for a quarter century: "Annual Property Tax Payable: $0" The break was approved by the New York State Legislature in 1982, when the then owners of Madison Square Garden were threatening to leave town with the Knicks and the Rangers. "When someone has a gun to your head and says, 'Your money or your life,' sometimes you have to give your money," state Sen. Franz Leichter was quoted as saying in reluctant support. "Welfare for the rich," state Sen. James Donovan was quoted observing. The deal was negotiated by the city and then-Mayor Ed Koch, who thought the tax break would expire after a decade. In what is either criminal oversight or an overlooked crime, the only 10-year limit in the deal as enacted by the Legislature is on the time the owners are required to keep the teams in New York. Otherwise, the Garden gets the tax break for however long the Knicks and Rangers play under its roof. Over time, with adjustments for inflation, the perpetual tax break has been worth some $250 million. Half of that has gone to the Dolans since they bought the Garden in 1994. That extra $10 million a year has given them a nice little cushion to shrug at a sexual harassment suit or stymie a plan to build a stadium on the West Side. Another big opponent to the West Side stadium was Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, one of the gang of three in Albany whose consent would be needed to end the Garden's tax abatement. The Dolans' lobbyists have included Silver's former top assistant. Last year, Mayor Bloomberg called for the end of the tax break. The City Council has long had a "home rule memo" in committee that would call for the Legislature to cease this quarterly outrage. The Council measure has sat there quarter after quarter as the brat has gotten tax bill after tax bill with that outrageous "$0." As if that were not insult enough, the same bill that gave the Garden the tax break also provided for a flat rate in its Con Ed bill, with a 15% discount worth about $350,000 a year. One legislator suggested in 1982 this translated into every Con Ed customer kicking in a dime. That has added up to about $8,750,000 or around $2.50 per customer over the last 25 years. "The Garden's still getting it," a Con Ed spokesman reported yesterday. Meanwhile, the Garden continues to squeeze every penny of profit it can. The Garden has charged the NYPD $120,000 for holding its two-hour Police Academy graduation there. Tourists who wish to tour the empty building are charged $17 for adults. "$12 for children 12 and under," a recorded voice at the Garden says. Which means that the Garden charges a youngster more to tour its premises than it pays in property taxes. And if the sexual harassment case did not convince you the Garden has no sense of shame, consider those numbers again: "Tax Before Exemptions and Abatements: $10,886,054 Annual Property Tax Payable: $0."

Edgy DC Oct 05 2007 09:20 AM

Vic Sage wrote: "When someone has a gun to your head and says, 'Your money or your life,' sometimes you have to give your money," state Sen. Franz Leichter was quoted as saying in reluctant support. This is hardly news, but that quote is sad. The Knicks and the Rangers are not life. The revenues the city loses by giving the wealthy that huge tax break --- that, on the other hand, can be life. I hope Senator Leichter's tenure was as short as his vision.

Vic Sage Oct 09 2007 08:56 AM

Curry is hurt... which may be a blessing in disguise. His 1-dimensional game can easily be replaced by the smaller but tougher and more diverse Zach Randolph, and will give more minutes to David Lee, which is a good thing.

Edgy DC Oct 09 2007 09:18 AM

The more I think about how Dolan ownership group has been disgraceful, the more mind-boggling it seems. It puts in mind how ridiculous the Yankees would be if the Mets didn't give them competitition. The Nets move to Brooklyn may be the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks.

Vic Sage Oct 09 2007 09:46 AM

Supposedly, commissioner Stern complained to the elder Dolan about his franchise, and the old man ripped his son a new one, and there may actually be a management shakeup of some kind in the works. or that could be just wishful thinking.

Vic Sage Oct 09 2007 11:57 AM

Knicks win 1st pre-season game over 76ers, 101-92 http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=ApCVkMbuZHQJHWsU7Cxn5OmQvLYF?gid=2007100820 As expected, in Curry's absence, Randolph performed solidly at Center, and Lee had the best game on the team. The rotation was as follows: starters: Marbury / Crawford / Richardson / Lee / Randolph rotation: Robinson / Jones / Chandler / Rose / Morris bench: Collins / Jeffries IR: James / Curry / Balkman ? = Nichols / Jordan

metirish Oct 09 2007 01:04 PM

I'd consider myself a good Knicks and Rangers fan,I didn't even bother to tune into the Rangers season opener last week, James Dolan makes me sick and it's affecting my support for MSG teams.The sooner he is gone the better, I don't have much hope of that happening though.

Nymr83 Oct 09 2007 02:55 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ="Vic Sage"]"When someone has a gun to your head and says, 'Your money or your life,' sometimes you have to give your money," state Sen. Franz Leichter was quoted as saying in reluctant support. This is hardly news, but that quote is sad. The Knicks and the Rangers are not life. The revenues the city loses by giving the wealthy that huge tax break --- that, on the other hand, can be life. I hope Senator Leichter's tenure was as short as his vision. what about the loss of income from the teams leaving? thats a whole lot of taxable business (tickets, merchandise, meals) going on in NYC on account of the teams being here. today, in 2007, the threat of them leaving seems pretty minimal, so i'd repeal that tax break ASAP, but that doesnt mean it was necessarily a bad idea at the time... though kill the idiot drafters who didn't give it the expiration date that it was thought to have.

Edgy DC Oct 09 2007 03:00 PM

It was a bad idea at the time and I'm disappointed to read you suggesting otherwise.

Nymr83 Oct 09 2007 07:19 PM

you're saying that (theoretically, because this isnt worth doing research over) if the state had decided at the time that keeping them here was worth more than 10.8 mil annualy in tax revenues (on the tickets sold, the people buying merchandise and doing other shopping while they are here, the state income taxes of the players plus the small amount from each visiting player, the meals all the fans buy, etc) they still shouldn't have done it?

Edgy DC Oct 09 2007 07:53 PM

1) Sure. It's a wretched precedent and it reeks ideologically. 2) That would all be bullshit. Bullshit at the level I wouldn't expect you to fall for. It's not the alleged revenues that force politicians to cave when teams threaten to leave town, it's the civic embarassment (and the potentially declining polling points) of being the politician who allowed them to go.

Vic Sage Oct 10 2007 10:14 AM

83 is only for welfare if its for a corporation. back to the Knicks... According to reports, Demetrius Nichols is unlikely to make the final roster, with the Knicks preferring to keep Fred Jones (better defender and former Pacer who played for Isiah) and are unwilling to buy out that big, fat bust, Jerome James. They should trade Nate Robinson for a draft pick and hold onto Nichols. It would be a shame to lose him for nothing. Ditto, re: Jared Jordan.

Nymr83 Oct 10 2007 10:25 AM

]83 is only for welfare if its for a corporation. its not "welfare," welfare is gettinmg something for nothing. it is (or was) a bribe to stay in NY and continue to be a source of other jobs and revenues in NY, theres nothing wrong with that, and if the knicks left there'd have been a few hundred more people receiving your kind of welfare in the city. i'd still end the tax today because the threat to leave isnt credible right now.

Edgy DC Oct 10 2007 11:15 AM

Nymr83 wrote: and if the knicks left there'd have been a few hundred more people receiving your kind of welfare in the city. I think it's a pretty empty case that they'd have left. I think it's a pretty empty case that the city or its people would be more hurt by the team leaving than they are by them staying tax-free. Tax codes being applied arbitrarilly is awful policy.

Vic Sage Oct 10 2007 01:16 PM

so is paying bribes... or, more accurately, knuckling under to extortion.

Valadius Oct 10 2007 07:11 PM

WHY is Allan Houston back with the Knicks? We really don't have any space for him on the roster.

Nymr83 Oct 10 2007 08:00 PM

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3057170[/url] for anyone who hadn't seen it yet. could this franchise get any lower?

Valadius Oct 10 2007 09:42 PM

Knick fans need to collectively buy the team from the Dolans. This team needs saving.

Valadius Oct 21 2007 10:39 AM

Allan Houston ended his quixotic comeback try today.

Vic Sage Oct 23 2007 08:17 AM

They looked good beating the Celtics last night, but so far the Curry-Randolph tandem works better when one of them isn't on the floor. starters: Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Randolph / Curry rotation: Robinson / Jones / Chandler / Lee / Morris bench: Collins / Jeffries IR: Balkman-dl / James-dl / Rose ? = Nichols / Jordan I'm annoyed we may lose both Nichols and Jordan, talented young guys with real potential, because we don't want to eat the useless contracts of Isiah's last 2 mid-level signings (James and Jeffries) or even the bloomless Rose. We should trade Robinson for a draft pick, then cut James, and use the two slots for the kids.

Centerfield Oct 23 2007 09:33 AM

I like how Clyde and Breen were talking about Robinson's newfound maturity, then two minutes later, he's getting into another fight.

Nymr83 Oct 23 2007 11:18 AM

trade Isiah for a draft pick... or just trade Isiah AND a draft pick to get rid of him. throw away 1 pick now to stop him from trading away more of them later.

Nymr83 Oct 24 2007 07:05 PM

i just learned that Balkman was born on staten island

Vic Sage Oct 25 2007 08:07 AM

is that good or bad?

Nymr83 Oct 25 2007 10:32 AM

neither, i just didnt know it, and we dont have many famous people here

A Boy Named Seo Oct 25 2007 11:25 AM

Jordan [url=http://www.courant.com/sports/hcu-knicksjordan-1025,0,2141994.story]waived[/url]. Would love to see the Clips pick him back up and stash him in the D-League or Europe. Dan Dickau for free! Woo hoo!

Methead Oct 25 2007 11:50 AM

Nichols gone too. He didn't do himself any favors by flat out refusing to go to Europe for a year. Thing is, he'll probably end up there anyway.

Vic Sage Oct 26 2007 10:47 AM

so we lose two 2nd round picks with promise to keep James and Rose on the roster. Woop-de-damn-doo

Vic Sage Oct 26 2007 10:53 AM

final roster starters: Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Randolph / Curry rotation: Robinson / Jones / Jeffries / Lee / Morris bench: Chandler / Rose IR: Balkman / James / Collins When Balkman comes back, Rose will likely go to IR, with Jeffries joining Chandler on the bench. Then, if Collins knee is ok, he can join chandler on the bench and bump Jeffries all the way down to the IR. That way, all the dead weight is in one place.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 04 2007 06:12 PM

Son of a bitch, the Clips are 2-0.

Elster88 Nov 06 2007 08:07 PM

About to beat the Nuggets.

Valadius Nov 06 2007 08:42 PM

Randolph had 22 and 17. That's what I'm talking about!

Vic Sage Nov 07 2007 11:47 AM

Balkman is an animal! I've got a man-crush! Isiah is playing a strict 8-man rotation, maximizing minutes for his best players. Unfortunately, the dominance of Z-Rack has minimized Lee's time and his game. But they've been playing pretty well, so i can't complain. Crawford has either taken his game to the level we hoped he one day would, or he's just on a hot streak. But he seems to be making better decisions overall, which will elevate this team. starters: Marbury / Crawford / Q-Rich / Randolph / Curry rotation: Robinson / Balkman / Lee Bench: Jones / Collins / Chandler / Rose IR: James /Jeffries / Morris

Vic Sage Nov 12 2007 08:47 AM

With Zack out on "grief leave" (his grandma died), and Robinson with a bad hammy, the rotation is revamped. But last night's game against hapless, Wade-less Heat shows how reliant this team on Randolph. There is no one to go to at crunch time, so Knicks collapse down the stretch.

Kid Carsey Nov 13 2007 04:11 PM

Marbury = awol, leaves team in Phoenix and returns to NY?

Valadius Nov 13 2007 07:17 PM

We're playing Phoenix tonight. Who is a rookie guard for the Suns? Darryl Strawberry's son, D.J. Strawberry.

metirish Nov 13 2007 08:54 PM

What a fucking mess , they used to be the envy of the league and now are a joke.

Nymr83 Nov 13 2007 09:11 PM

i'm glad Starbury went awol, hopefully he'll leave for good and the kmicks can move on.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 13 2007 09:56 PM

You guys and us guys mañana. Good luck. I don't mean that.

Valadius Nov 14 2007 09:03 AM

It's war: ]Marbury: "I got so much stuff on Isiah'' Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 7:06 am EST The New York Daily News reported Wednesday that New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury told teammates on a charter flight: "Isiah has to start me," Marbury fumed, according to the Daily New source. "I've got so much (stuff) on Isiah and he knows it. He thinks he can (get) me. But I'll (get) him first. You have no idea what I know." Marbury was talking about New York Knicks GM/Coach Isiah Thomas. Marbury made his decision to return to home to New York once he was informed on the charter plane Monday afternoon that he would not be starting against the Phoenix Suns.

Methead Nov 14 2007 09:50 AM

I'm making popcorn and getting comfortable.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 10:08 AM

metirish wrote: What a fucking mess , they used to be the envy of the league and now are a joke. When? Not since 1974, except maybe the first few months after they drew the big prize in the Patrick Ewing lottery.

metirish Nov 14 2007 10:10 AM

Well I meant as far as how an organization is run, before the Dolans bought the place the Knicks were a model franchise, I think I'm right in saying that.

Valadius Nov 14 2007 02:35 PM

]Isiah, Marbury exchanged punches on flight Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 2:17 pm EST The Record of Hackensack reported in Wednesday editions that punches were thrown during an altercation between New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury and GM/Coach Isiah Thomas on a charter flight to Phoenix. The Knicks have denied any fight took place. Quoting an unnamed team source, The Record said someone on the flight admitted awakening to a commotion as Thomas discussed his dissatisfaction with Marbury's play and a possible demotion from the starting lineup. If that's the case Marbury probably has played his last game for his hometown team. Thomas also wouldn't say whether Marbury will be suspended or fined. The latter could cost Marbury more than $180,000 of his $20.1 million salary for each game he misses.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 02:49 PM

Isaiah is a walking nightmare.

Valadius Nov 15 2007 02:35 PM

From Yahoo Sports: ]Not every Knick happy with Marbury's return By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports November 15, 2007 LOS ANGELES – The New York Knicks began to rise from their locker-room seats Wednesday evening, stretching their legs one last time before running onto the Staples Center court to face the Los Angeles Clippers, when a voice came from the back corner of the room. “I want you guys to know I’m sorry,” Stephon Marbury said, “for everything you’ve had to go through the past couple days.” The players turned to look at Marbury, waiting to hear if the Knicks’ prodigal point guard had anything to add. Over the previous 48 hours, Marbury had threatened to “bury” his coach; left the team in Phoenix to fly home to New York; reportedly incurred a team-issued fine worth just under $200,000; and, finally, jetted back across the country to Los Angeles to rejoin his teammates. Marbury, however, stayed quiet. He hadn’t even bothered to stand up to issue his brief apology. This is what the Knicks had come to expect from their $20 million star. The size of the gesture didn’t matter as much as its lack of sincerity. And that’s why, less than 24 hours earlier, when Isiah Thomas dispatched Jamal Crawford to find out how the players would react if and when Marbury rejoined the team, all of them voted against allowing him to play. Thomas, according to one person who spoke with Crawford, had pledged to hold out Marbury if even a single Knick didn’t want him on the court. So how did Thomas react to the team’s unanimous vote? He sat Marbury until late in the first quarter then played him nearly 34 of the game’s remaining 39 minutes. The Knicks lost, of course, falling 84-81 to an injury-riddled Clippers team that many in the league expected to be anchoring the bottom of the Western Conference. Marbury clanged a late 3-pointer, then was powerless to stop Cuttino Mobley from backing him down for the clinching turnaround bank shot. Afterward, Thomas said his personal feelings toward Marbury wouldn’t keep him from putting the team in the best position to win. “I’ve played with people I don’t like. I’ve won with people I don’t like,” Thomas said. “We’re a professional basketball team. My job is to try and win the basketball game. “However I feel about a person, that doesn’t matter. We’re tying to win. Whatever happened in the past is in the past.” That’s doubtful. Marbury said after the game that he’s “cool” and can “walk with my head up” and that “going forward, I’m fine.” The problem is that many of his teammates aren’t fine. They’re fed up with him. The Knicks lived with his bizarre television appearance. They listened as he admitted to having sex with a team intern in the back of a truck. And when Thomas let Marbury know Monday that he was planning to bring him off the bench against the Phoenix Suns, they even weathered the resulting firestorm. One person on the plane, confirming a report in the New York Daily News, said Marbury threatened to “bury (Thomas) and the Knicks” with unseemly information about the coach. But when Marbury left his teammates high and dry in the desert? That was too much. The Knicks let out a collective sigh of relief when told Marbury had left. For one night, at least, they didn’t have to stomach his selfishness. But as soon as Marbury walked into the visitors’ locker room Wednesday, smiling as if he had just crisscrossed 9,000 miles in 48 hours for the sheer pleasure of pumping up his frequent-flier account, the team was once again on edge. Thomas said Marbury needs to provide leadership and defense to win back his starting job, and that should be good for a few more laughs. Leadership? From the guy who deserted his team? Even if Marbury left with Thomas’ permission, as Marbury claims, he still left. In spite of their frustration, the Knicks don’t have anyone willing to challenge Marbury, and they’re quickly losing faith in their coach doing so. Thomas, perhaps weighed down by his role in the team’s recent sexual harassment lawsuit, has seen his own leadership erode. Some nights he’s miserable after a loss; on others he almost doesn’t seem to care. The players don’t know what to make of the mixed message. As a result, even Marbury’s harshest critics in the locker room don’t think he deserves full blame for the team’s 2-5 start. Too many players have played too poorly for it to be the fault of one. Still, the Knicks are tired of being the league’s longest running joke, and Marbury has been their clown prince. From Larry Brown’s settlement to Anucha Browne Sanders’ lawsuit to Marbury’s current feud with Thomas, the circus has stayed too long in New York, even if the rest of the NBA continues to find it entertaining. “I could have taken LSD, hallucinated AND been a great writer and I still couldn’t have made this stuff up,” said one rival team executive. So, for now, the Knicks’ runaway train continues to careen off the tracks with Marbury and Thomas sharing the engineer’s chair. Everybody seems to be enjoying the ride except those actually on board.

Vic Sage Nov 16 2007 08:11 AM

unbelievable. Isiah polls the team, gets a unanimous vote to bench Star-buried, and plays him anyway. he should get fired for that alone.

Valadius Nov 26 2007 08:02 PM

The Knicks beat Utah, a good team. And I'm not sure how I feel about that, which scares me.

Kid Carsey Nov 29 2007 07:14 PM

I never thought I could think such a thought, much less utter it in public -- but I'm diggin' the Celtics watching the first half of the Knicks game.

seawolf17 Nov 29 2007 07:19 PM

I grew up a Celtics fan, and this team has been unwatchable the last few years... but KG has me interested in basketball again, for the first time since the strike. (And for that matter, my Philly Flyers are in first place too!)

Valadius Nov 29 2007 08:39 PM

WOW do we suck.

Nymr83 Nov 29 2007 10:57 PM

tonight's humiliation puts us one step closer to every fan's goal: the removal of isiah thomas

Vic Sage Nov 30 2007 10:27 AM

why? It seems to me Dolan is entirely immune to public humiliation.

Vic Sage Dec 10 2007 09:31 AM

Dolan laughs as the Garden burns.

metirish Dec 10 2007 12:51 PM

It's come to the point where nothing amazes anymore, it seems no matter how low things go Dolan has faith in Thomas.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:52 PM

Some good news for Isiah Thomas: he's not named in the Mitchell Report.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 02:19 PM

[url=http://toastedjoe.blogspot.com/2007/12/what-exactly-does-isiah-thomas-have-to.html]What does Isiah have to do to get fired?[/url] ]In all honesty, I am wondering what exactly Isiah Thomas has to do to get fired at this point. Fortunately, I have a few ideas: (1) Pull out a machine gun during a game and fire randomly into the stands. This one might not work at the Garden, since the stands are well on their way to being empty. (2) Cornhole the captain of the Knicks City Dancers on the scorer's table during a timeout. Isiah will say it was consensual. That will be good enough for Dolan. (3) Walk over to David Stern at halftime and masturbate into his Diet Coke. Actually, Dolan would probably get a kick out of this. (4) Say during an interview that he thinks that all white Knick fans should be assessed a $5 "honky tax" on all tickets. Probably won't work either. Dolan might actually do this. (5) Use one of Jim Dolan's electric guitars to perform an illicit sexual act on Charles Dolan. Ladies and gents, we have a winner!

metirish Dec 18 2007 01:33 PM

The New York times wants to talk to this fan who was escorted from MSG during the Pacers game. [url=http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/12/18/sports/18knickswebrefer_CA0.ready.html]Do You Know This Fan?[/url]

Vic Sage Dec 18 2007 01:59 PM

]Thomas says Knicks have no heart, no pride It appears that Isiah Thomas finally saw what booing New York Knicks fans have been seeing for weeks — a lousy team without guts. About 15 minutes after his last-place team got blown out at home by 27 points and fell to 10 games under .500, Isiah Thomas finally admitted what Knicks fans have known for the past month. "Tonight was very discouraging to me because we didn't collectively play with heart," Thomas said after the Knicks were clobbered by the Pacers, 119-92. "I think we have the talent, but just because you have the talent and skill doesn't necessarily mean you have the heart. ... For whatever reason, we just stopped competing; we just stopped playing with pride." well, this is the team you built, Mr. GM. If they've got not heart, no pride, why did you go out and get each and every one of them for umpteen gazillion dollars and draft picks? At this point, I'm just waiting for the Nets to move to Brooklyn.

Valadius Dec 18 2007 02:11 PM

I can't wait for the day when once and for all, the team can be dismantled and started from scratch. We just need to get the salary cap finally under control.

metirish Dec 18 2007 02:16 PM

The Nets moving to Brooklyn is looking worse and worse by the day for the Knicks, The salary cap is one thing that needs fixing but also James Dolan needs to go and the whole structure of management needs to be dumped.

Vic Sage Dec 18 2007 03:16 PM

i've never switched any sports allegiance i've ever had to any team, but once the Nets are out of NJ and in my hometown neighborhood, the Knicks will drive me into their arms... unless there has been a radical shakeup of top management and a new direction put in place.

Vic Sage Dec 19 2007 08:41 AM

the dentist with the giant pink slip is leading a protest today at 11am in front of the Garden. All knick fans in the area are invited to join him and sign the petition.

HahnSolo Dec 19 2007 08:53 AM

="metirish"]The New York times wants to talk to this fan who was escorted from MSG during the Pacers game. [url=http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/12/18/sports/18knickswebrefer_CA0.ready.html]Do You Know This Fan?[/url] I like how he needed to add the little arrow on the sign pointing in Isiah's direction. It's the small things, people. ]The Nets moving to Brooklyn is looking worse and worse by the day for the Knicks, The salary cap is one thing that needs fixing but also James Dolan needs to go and the whole structure of management needs to be dumped. Lost in the Knicks misery is the absolutely horrible job being done by the team in New Jersey. They've lost 8 out of 10 now, they never win at home, and even the Knicks have beaten them, twice. That team may not be championship caliber, but should be way better. It honestly would not shock me to see Laurence Frank go before Isiah.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 19 2007 09:00 AM

The Snooze put the kid on the front page today Slow News day. Pages 1-3 were devoted to this story including a full page FIRE ISIAH sign for fans toclip and take to the game. Page 4 had the daily "OMG transit rate hike" piece and an update on the cop-punching, bikini-wearing newscaster, and Page 5 had stories on Clemens and on Arod's bnew agent. C;lemens also got the back cover due to Lupica's idiotic "tell it to Congress" column.

Edgy DC Dec 19 2007 09:07 AM

Yeah, I know the fan. His name is Everybody.

Valadius Dec 19 2007 01:55 PM

The fan has been identified as Jason Silverstein, a 23-year-old Manhattan real estate agent.

MFS62 Dec 20 2007 05:06 PM

Knicks fans are asking "Why isn't David Lee playing more?" Nets fans are asking "Why isn't Jason Collins playing less?" Later

TheOldMole Jan 12 2008 01:35 PM

After all the losing Isiah Thomas has done - both on and off the court - the Knicks' president and head coach appears to be finally losing the support of his strongest ally as well. Garden chairman James Dolan recently told confidants that he knows a coaching change must be made and that he is preparing to do just that, according to a source close to Dolan. No timetable was given, but the source indicated that Dolan is leaning toward making a change before the end of the season.

Elster88 Jan 29 2008 10:31 PM

I am the president of the "Isiah is the worst GM and coach of all time" club, but are they playing better now. Maybe I was underrating the Stephon Marbury = Clubhouse Cancer factor.

MFS62 Feb 02 2008 08:36 AM

MFS62 wrote: Knicks fans are asking "Why isn't David Lee playing more?" Nets fans are asking "Why isn't Jason Collins playing less?" Later UPDATE: Forget the Santana trade. I knew they would have to come to terms with him, so it was a done deal. The deal that made me most excited yesterday was news that the Nets are trading Jason Collins for Stromile Swift. When completed, it will bring the pleasure of passing a kidney stone. They guy was the worst regular ever to play for the Nets, and I have been a fan since the old ABA days. And that includes Kim Hughes. Later

Nymr83 Feb 09 2008 03:06 PM

]After undergoing ankle surgery that turned out to be more complicated that initially thought, New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury will miss the rest of the season according to a published report. Thomas: I promise we were just about to turn things around and then Marbury got hurt, and we all know that teams can't be expected to play through injuries. we'll be better next season when nobody gets hurt, because its unusual for anyone to get hurt.

AG/DC Feb 09 2008 09:51 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 10 2008 10:37 AM

="MFS62"]They guy was the worst regular ever to play for the Nets, and I have been a fan since the old ABA days. While I have little idea what you're talking about, as I've cared little for the NBA the last 15 years, this statement got me curious because I recall some gloriously ugly Net play back in the day on WOR. Lester Conner was the first guy to pop into my head as an overmatched Net regular. Dwayne Schintzius popped into my head also, but I dug him up and he only started 17 games for the Nets. But I checked this Collins guy out and he certainly does appear, at face value, to be out of his depth. But, most notably and curiously, I found this happening. Year FTM FTA FT% 2001-2002 115 164 .701 2002-2003 180 236 .763 2003-2004 136 184 .739 2004-2005 137 209 .656 2005-2006 44 86 .512 2006-2007 59 127 .465 2007-2008 14 37 .378 What's happening there?

Rockin' Doc Feb 10 2008 10:08 AM

My guess would be a loss of cahnnnfidence. That and hearing, "Booooo! You suck!!!" everytime you miss another free throw probably contributes to his diminished performance from the line.

Kong76 Feb 24 2008 10:20 AM

So funny it's not funny ... http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/sports/basketball/24anderson.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=sports&pagewanted=print Better Days for the Knicks? Dream On By DAVE ANDERSON I had a dream the other night, a dream that was too good to be true. I was in an otherwise empty Madison Square Garden that was set up for a Knicks game, only me and a rumpled little man sitting in the front row who looked like James L. Dolan, the cable guy, and he was babbling about what he had finally decided to do about his alleged professional basketball team. “I’m returning the New York franchise to the National Basketball Association,” he said. “As of now, the Knicks no longer exist.” I was tempted to tell him that the Knicks have not really existed for several seasons, not the Knicks that New York knew and loved, the Knicks of Red Holzman and Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere, Bill Bradley, Dick Barnett and Earl Monroe that won two championships, or even the Knicks of Pat Riley and Jeff Van Gundy and Patrick Ewing, Charles Oakley, John Starks, Allan Houston and Larry Johnson that twice went to the finals. But he kept babbling. “As of now the Knicks no longer exist,” he repeated. I told him that a pro basketball franchise and a team can’t simply cease to exist in the middle of the season. “I don’t care. I’m canceling the rest of the season.” You mean you’re forfeiting the remaining games? “Home and away,” he said. “Anybody who bought tickets for any of those games will get refunds. Home and away.” • What happens to the players? “I’ll pay them whatever millions remain on their contracts for whatever number of years, and they’ll be free to go anywhere else. “If any other team wants them,” he added, with a smirk. “The last time I watched them play, whatever five guys were on the court, they looked like they were five strangers we had hired off Eighth Avenue that night. No teamwork on offense, no rebounds, no defense.” What happens to the assistants? “The assistant coaches and everybody in the front office get all the money that’s coming to them, too.” What happens to Isiah? “Who’s Isiah?” he said. Isiah Thomas, your coach and president for basketball operations. “Oh, that Isiah.” Yes, that Isiah. “I thought Isiah was his last name. When all those fans were yelling, ‘Fire Isiah,’ I thought they were cheering for him. I thought Fire was his first name.” But what happens to Isiah? “He’s on the Cablevision payroll now. I thought about using him as a repairman, but that’s what I thought I was getting when I hired him to fix the Knicks more than four years ago. If he couldn’t fix the Knicks, I doubt he could fix somebody’s cable TV if it’s not working. So maybe I’ll just let him work off the rest of his contract as a consultant.” Will you consult him? “Not if I can help it.” Does all this mean that there won’t be a New York franchise in the N.B.A. next season? “No, somebody probably will buy the New York franchise by then.” In returning the franchise to the N.B.A., does that mean you’re putting the Knicks up for sale? “Not me.” Then who? “Commissioner David Stern told me he’s willing to broker the sale. When we didn’t settle that sexual-harassment case before it went to trial and we lost, eventually settling it for $11.5 million, he said that the Knicks were ‘not a model of intelligent management.’ Imagine that. Doesn’t he know that Cablevision is a billion-dollar business?” But on your watch, the Knicks have been nowhere near as successful as Cablevision? “Let me remind you that, according to Forbes magazine, the Knicks, with a net worth of $608 million, are pro basketball’s most valuable franchise.” But that $608 million hasn’t bought a playoff berth in what will be seven seasons, much less a championship. “Playoffs, championships. They’re not the bottom line. The dummies who kept buying Knicks season tickets at ridiculous prices, they’re the bottom line. And in returning the Knicks franchise to the league, David Stern has assured me that he’ll start the bidding for the franchise at $608 million. Now that’s a bottom line.” • Will you let the new owner’s team play in the Garden? “Under the deal I made with David Stern, the new owner can rent the Garden for every home game for the same amount that the Knicks paid. Whatever amount that was. To tell you the truth, I don’t know what it was.” To tell me the truth? “Of course,” he said. With that, I woke up. Not wanting to forget anything, I hurriedly wrote down everything that this rumpled little man who looked like James L. Dolan had told me in the dream. And as crazy as that dream was, the next night, I dreamed that I had to tell the commissioner about it. When I did, he laughed. “I’ve had the same dream,” he said.

metirish Mar 21 2008 07:09 AM

Walsh or West, would it matter unless Dolan gives full autonomy?

TheOldMole Mar 27 2008 06:16 AM

Over the last two weeks, Thomas has unabashedly promoted his prospects and benched his veterans and given every impression that winning is a low priority. The Knicks have lost 12 of 14 games, further securing a high position in the draft lottery. Every year at this time, the worst teams announce they are “playing for the future” and “developing the kids.” Veterans with mild limps are shut down for health reasons. Cynics, who include rival executives and coaches, call this tanking. But the practice continues unabated, with winks and clichés. Asked where the line is between tanking and planning for the future, Thomas smiled. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/sports/basketball/27knicks.html?ref=sports Would this be allowed in any other sport? Is it anything less than a total disgrace?

metirish Mar 27 2008 06:38 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 27 2008 11:28 AM

The Knicks playing for the lottery should make other teams happy, they will get the picks. Seriously don't they have to forfeit some first round picks to other teams over the next few years?

TheOldMole Mar 27 2008 11:17 AM

I think the commissioner's office should make a team that's clearly tanking games forfeit a draft pick.

Nymr83 Mar 31 2008 01:03 AM

The Knicks should make the last home game of the season "fan appreciation day" and appreciate the fans by firing Isiah in a halftime ceremony.

Vic Sage Mar 31 2008 10:42 AM

i think its time to bring back the guillotine.

TheOldMole Mar 31 2008 11:39 AM

I think their next coach should be Uday Hussein.

Nymr83 Apr 01 2008 11:19 PM

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3324896[/url] Espn says Walsh announcement tommorow!

MFS62 Apr 02 2008 02:53 PM

Nymr83 wrote: [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3324896[/url] Espn says Walsh announcement tommorow! Here's a link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Apv6OFr._WsPfQAJJmWYB.E5nYcB?slug=ap-knicks-walsh&prov=ap&type=lgns Later

Nymr83 Apr 08 2008 01:03 AM

Congratulations to #33 whose election to the hall of fame (along with former nemesis Hakeem Olajuwon and former coach Pat Riley) was anounced yesterday!

Kong76 Apr 17 2008 06:47 AM

One of the ways I drive to work takes me past the Knicks/Rangers practice facility. Some mornings ya see over-sized luxury SUV's with Canadian plates or a blinged out car and you just know it's someone. Anyway, today I saw a gaudy almond color Cadillac (I think it was a Caddy, I don't pay much attention to cars) and it was pulled over and a black smiliing toothy guy was yappin' on the cell phone and for just one instance I thought it was Isaiah -- hopefully talking to his agent about getting shit-canned.

Farmer Ted Apr 17 2008 10:31 AM

Did Walsh not fire Thomas when in Indiana?

AG/DC May 10 2008 02:06 PM

Sports Illustrated says Mike D'Antoni is your new Knicks coach.

Valadius May 10 2008 02:32 PM

Fantastic choice. He'll bring a style of play tailor-made for the Garden. Now to just build a team...

Vic Sage May 12 2008 02:24 PM

Now they need a GM who is on the same page as D'Antoni, because if they draft, trade and sign players who offer defense and 1/2 court skills (you know, the kinds of things that win championships), D'Antoni won't know what to do with them. So who stays and who goes? 1) Zach Randolph - statistically, their best player last year, but ill-suited for "run & gun"; big contract +bad attitude + minimal defensive effort = hard to trade, but he GOES. 2) Jamal Crawford - Despite a low BB IQ, he's coming off his best year, in his prime, and a good player for a running game. He STAYS. 3) David Lee - although the Randolph/Curry frontline minimized his impact, Lee was still a solid all-around contributor in 08. His passing and ability to run the floor (for a big man), plus his overall contributions, make him a definite keeper in any system. STAYS 4) Stephon Marbury - He didn't do too well with D'Antoni in AZ, and he's not ideal PG for this type of team. Last year of K makes him tradeable. GOES. 5) Nate Robinson - erratic, inconsistent, but speed/versatility makes him ideal for this style. STAYS. But D'Antoni will try to strangle him at some point. 6) Eddy Curry - His only value is as a low-post scorer in a 1/2 court set, which will not be a recurring phenomenon for the next 4 years. GOES. please, god, please. with sugar on top. 7) Quentin Richardson - he's totally shot. GOES. 8) Fred Jones - marginal player with little upside. GOES. 9) Wilson Chandler - young, talented, versatile. STAYS. 10) Renaldo Balkman - Big disappointment last year; I really thought he had Anthony Mason -type potential. He still may, and he's ideally suited for D'Antoni's offense. STAYS. 11) Jerome James - I'll drive him to the airport. GOES. 12) Jared Jeffries - He can run... he just cannot do anything else, and BBall is not a track meet. He should GO, but he seems D'Antoni's type so he probably STAYS. 13) Mardy Collins - 1/2-court PG; too slow; GOES. 14) Malik Rose - Totally shot. GOES. 15) Randolph Morris - Big stiff so far, but still has upside. STAYS.

metirish May 12 2008 02:37 PM

One of the writers in the Daily News today said they should make D'Antoni the GM for the very reason you mention, they type of players he likes.

Vic Sage May 12 2008 03:07 PM

i don't like the GM/Coach situation. It gives the coach too much leverage vis-a-vis Team Prez Donnie Walsh. But the new GM (whoever he is) will need to bring in D'Antoni's type of players... otherwise, what was the point of overpaying to get him? Frankly, i think this signing has "disaster" written all over it, and the only thing that will save D'Antoni is his lack of resemblance to Isiah Thomas. But i don't think anybody could save the Knicks in the next 2+ years. If they make some good draft picks and can then get under the cap and sign LeBron by that point, then there'll be a chance to turn things around. So whoever is coaching now is more of a highly paid sacrificial lamb than the person to lead us to the promised land. Maybe Walsh did Mark Jackson a favor by lying to his face.

Elster88 May 12 2008 05:33 PM

Valadius wrote: He'll bring a style of play tailor-made for the Garden. I agree. With the extra large court and 11 foot rims, the basketball court at MSG is perfect for D'Antoni's style.

Elster88 May 12 2008 05:35 PM

Vic Sage wrote: 4) Stephon Marbury - He didn't do too well with D'Antoni in AZ, and he's not ideal PG for this type of team. Last year of K makes him tradeable. GOES. Is this what you want? I hope not. We needed to get out of the big contracts five years ago. I pray they don't start trading for more big-time, long-term contracts.

batmagadanleadoff May 12 2008 05:41 PM

some writer wrote: One of the writers in the Daily News today said they should make D'Antoni the GM for the very reason you mention, the type of players he likes. Couldn't you say that about any coach?

SteveJRogers May 12 2008 05:42 PM

="Vic Sage"]i don't like the GM/Coach situation. It gives the coach too much leverage vis-a-vis Team Prez Donnie Walsh. But the new GM (whoever he is) will need to bring in D'Antoni's type of players... otherwise, what was the point of overpaying to get him? Frankly, i think this signing has "disaster" written all over it, and the only thing that will save D'Antoni is his lack of resemblance to Isiah Thomas. But i don't think anybody could save the Knicks in the next 2+ years. If they make some good draft picks and can then get under the cap and sign LeBron by that point, then there'll be a chance to turn things around. So whoever is coaching now is more of a highly paid sacrificial lamb than the person to lead us to the promised land. Maybe Walsh did Mark Jackson a favor by lying to his face. I can just hear Stern telling Dolan "Look, look, best way to save face, and still get LeBron is to fire Thomas, hire Walsh and an experienced coach, stay under the cap and radar until LeBron is a free agent and then, he is all yours!"

Elster88 May 12 2008 05:50 PM

I can't see him saying that.

SteveJRogers May 12 2008 05:56 PM

Well that was my best...errr worst imitation of an NBA conspiratorial sports radio show caller (Jordan was "suspended," Ewing pick was the result of the frozen envelope, playoff games are fixed to get the Lakers/Bulls/Knicks/etc in the finals, etc). Yeah, if Stern really did want to get the Knicks back on top, LeBron would have been here, probably Day 1 somehow.

AG/DC May 12 2008 05:58 PM

Steve, please speak for yourself. Or at least specify when you're speaking for WFAN strawmen.

SteveJRogers May 12 2008 06:00 PM

AG/DC wrote: Steve, please speak for yourself. Or at least specify when you're speaking for WFAN strawmen. I was speaking for myself, in making a bad joke.

Nymr83 May 12 2008 06:32 PM

]But i don't think anybody could save the Knicks in the next 2+ years. If they make some good draft picks and can then get under the cap and sign LeBron by that point, then there'll be a chance to turn things around. So whoever is coaching now is more of a highly paid sacrificial lamb than the person to lead us to the promised land. getting under the cap in 2 years would constitute "saving the knicks" in my opinion, regardless of their record on the court. this team is just not going to win until the roster gets turned over and i don't mean by trading the crap they have now for newer shinier crap with longer contracts.

TheOldMole May 16 2008 07:26 PM

What is Isiah's current role with the Knicks? Good will ambassador?

Nymr83 May 20 2008 06:57 PM

Knicks, who had a 7.6% chance at the top pick, end up with the 5th pick, so the conspiracy theorists can't complain now when they dont get Derrick Rose.

Valadius May 20 2008 08:40 PM

We got the sixth pick.

Nymr83 May 20 2008 09:21 PM

yeah, read it wrong on espn