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My Bloody Valentin (split from IGT 7/8/07 Mets-Astros)

Nymr83 Jul 08 2007 02:34 PM

Kid Carsey wrote: Fuckin' Valentin. I'd like to see more Easley and less Valentin at this point.

Gwreck Jul 08 2007 03:15 PM

Less Valentin is also a (potentially) wise business move. His '08 option becomes guaranteed if he hits 400 PAs. (He's currently at 162).

Nymr83 Jul 08 2007 04:03 PM

another good reason to bench him, though i think theres a rule against the management specifically telling willie to bench a guy to avoid his option kicking in.

Kid Carsey Jul 08 2007 04:28 PM

Those kinda things aren't said, they're winked. It'd be kinda tough to have a team of players (union brothers, if you will) know that a guy is having $$$ taken out of his kid's mouths by such an action and expect them not to raise holy hell. Plus, it's gopnna be kinda hard to negotiate contracts with certain incentives built in for fringe players knowing that management might do some- thing like that. I'm not saying it's not done, just think it's kinda silly to say there's a rule.

Nymr83 Jul 08 2007 04:59 PM

i believe there is such a rule under the collective bargaining agreement though, and when you suddenly a bench the guy hitting .270, 18, 76 in august after starting him all year the union can and will file a grievance. edit- now Valentin has certainly earned his (potential) benching, but that needs to be the reason for it.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 08 2007 05:26 PM

His OBP dipped below 300 just today. I believe that allows, if not compels, management to do all manner of filthy things to him without repercussion.

Kid Carsey Jul 08 2007 05:43 PM

ny: >>>suddenly a bench the guy hitting .270, 18, 76 in august after starting him all year the union can and will file a grievance<<< There's no billable hours here -- no need to introduce points that have nothing to do with Valentin, Counselor.

Nymr83 Jul 08 2007 07:14 PM

sorry, i thought you were questioning the existence of the rule rather than its applicability to Valentin.

Edgy DC Jul 08 2007 08:10 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 08 2007 08:32 PM

Technically, his kids shouldn't have money in their mouths anyhow. Secondly, it's going to be his bat stopping him from hitting that threshold, and, if it doesn't, that means he's hitting, and I won't begrudge him a penny of the Wilpons' option money. That said, I don't think he's in condition to be effective offensively or defensively.

Gwreck Jul 08 2007 08:27 PM

I think we're getting to the point of a split here. I agree with Edgy on the "not in a condition to play." I wonder if there's some way they can convince Valentin to just get the surgery now on the knee and start the rehab already so that he can be in good shape for the start of the season in '08. I'd have no problem with Easley and Gotay covering 2nd base (whether straight platoon or otherwise). We would need somebody else off the bench (unless keeping Alomar around is the option).

Edgy DC Jul 08 2007 08:38 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 09 2007 05:47 AM

Well, the best way they can convince him to do that is to guarantee his option. Until then, he's playing for his contract. And the next best way to convince him is to make it clear that --- although they appreciate how hard he's worked, they have other options they're going to look to.

Nymr83 Jul 09 2007 12:01 AM

Gwreck wrote: I think we're getting to the point of a split here. I agree with Edgy on the "not in a condition to play." I wonder if there's some way they can convince Valentin to just get the surgery now on the knee and start the rehab already so that he can be in good shape for the start of the season in '08. I'd have no problem with Easley and Gotay covering 2nd base (whether straight platoon or otherwise). We would need somebody else off the bench (unless keeping Alomar around is the option). if you keep alomar around then Castro suddenly becomes usable as a pinch hitter, he's shown power but he's not much of an avg guy.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2007 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 09 2007 11:53 AM

The good news is that we've managed to be slightly above average at second. Bad news is leaving Houston, and leaving behind Loretta, the most productive of the free agents we passed on. The good news is the huge bullet we dodged in Julio Lugo, who is using the Boston lineup to hide the fact that he's had a terrible season offensively and been merely an average shortstop defensively. Side note: Right now, Jose Reyes has the second best zone rating among starting shortstops in the bigs. Derek Jeter has the second worst. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2007&seasonType=2&split=82&sortColumn=zoneRating

smg58 Jul 09 2007 10:46 AM

I think we really need to see more of Gotay. Aside from him currently swinging the bat really well, how I'd approach second base in the offseason depends a lot on him. Is he a useful utility guy on a hot streak, or can he be an everyday player on a good team?

Johnny Dickshot Jul 09 2007 11:45 AM

Willie seems to think that Gotay, like Valentin, isn't a strong RH-hitter, so he's redundant as long as JV is around, or vice-versa, seeing as Easley gets the starts v. LHP. I also suspect the Mets think Gotay doesn't have the glove JV has, just a bit slow moving to his right. So that's a point in the Chin's column. That said, Goat's continued nice ABs and Chin's continued struggles are making this a harder decision -- one that might not even have been happening were there not so many outfielders going down. So I think a solution here is connected to a solution in the outfield.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2007 11:56 AM

I don't see how Willie and his staff full of old infielders can miss that Valentin's range doesn't resemble what it was last year. Let's give Easley the lefthanders and split the righthanders between the Goat and Valentin. Maybe the rest will help the guy.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 09 2007 12:02 PM

I the only one who suspects the Mets are uneasy with Gotay's D?

sharpie Jul 09 2007 12:32 PM

I also haven't been that thrilled with Goat's D. Neither his arm nor his range have impressed me.

Centerfield Jul 09 2007 01:15 PM

Give me the guy who can hit. Probably the most damning thing about Valentin wasn't all the balls he's failed to connect on, but the one he did manage to hit. It died at the warning track. If Valentin doesn't have the power he had last year, he brings very little to the table now that his mobility is compromised. I'd go with Ruben.

Johnny Dickshot Jul 09 2007 01:22 PM

Your possible trade targets here would be Brian Roberts and/or Brandon Phillips of the Reds. Roberts is a nice player but definitely not a power hitter. Phillips isn't as great as they said he might be yet... I have no idea whether of not the Reds would wanna trade him. There's always switch-hitting Ray Durham, but he's getting old. I could see him maybe acquired as a bench-veteran kinda guy, you know, a better Newhan or Franco.

Benjamin Grimm Jul 09 2007 01:30 PM

Centerfield wrote: Give me the guy who can hit. That was Davey Johnson's philosophy.

sharpie Jul 09 2007 01:35 PM

I can't imagine that Phillips or Roberts would be available and if they were we'd have to pay a fortune. Durham, sure, but is he much better than Gotay/Valentin these days? Also available would be our old friend Ty Wigginton but his defense is questionable.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2007 01:44 PM

If we're going to deal, why not Sweet Loretta? (I'd still rather have an outfielder.)

smg58 Jul 09 2007 08:44 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I the only one who suspects the Mets are uneasy with Gotay's D? I don't know. I listen to the games more than I watch, so I really haven't seen much noteworthy of Gotay beyond Matsui's infield single a couple of days ago, but I think that was an error of inexperience (or at least something correctable) rather than a reflection on his range. I do think it's interesting that they've played Gotay some at short instead of Easley, who's much more experienced at the position. I can't imagine they'd do that if they had serious misgivings about Gotay's glove.

Edgy DC Jul 09 2007 08:55 PM

Valentin's even more experienced. He was at the top of his field when he was over there.