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doc g
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 3274
(9/25/01 9:36:52 am)
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Closers are not people...
they are not like other players, anyway, in that their jobs are (the way the game is played now)
100% of it, by definition, with the game on the line, and any failure on their parts translates
DIRECTLY into the loss of a close game that the team was winning. When Mikey strikes out with
the bases loaded in the ninth of a one-run loss, or when Zeile hits into a game-ending DP, their
loyal fans point to other virtues of theirs--a HR earlier in the game, or a great fielding play (well,
maybe I've chosen bad examples for a great fielding play, but you get the idea...) Players other
than closers have a long track record of off-setting virtues to their vices. But with closers we
demand and expect unbroken perfect performances, and we measure their performance against
other players, none of whom operate in 100% game-on-the-line pressure as they do. So all this
criticism of closers is IMO totally unjustified and a display of poor understanding of how the game
is played. If you want to compare their performances under pressure, compare them to those of
other closers--because that's the comparison that counts.
"a thread runs through all things: all worlds are strung on it, as beads; and men, and events, and
life, come to us, only because of that thread.'--Ralph Waldo Emerson, in "Montaigne; or, The
Skeptic"
Edited by: doc g at: 9/25/01 9:40:36 am
Baseball Mom
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 8202
(9/25/01 9:38:22 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
What about middle relievers?
"I Get Knocked Down, But I Get Up Again - You're NEVER Gonna Keep Me Down!" -
Chumbawumba
doc g
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 3275
(9/25/01 9:41:10 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
They're people.
"a thread runs through all things: all worlds are strung on it, as beads; and men, and events, and
life, come to us, only because of that thread.'--Ralph Waldo Emerson, in "Montaigne; or, The
Skeptic"
Baseball Mom
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 8203
(9/25/01 9:42:10 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
Ok. So we're cool Doc
"I Get Knocked Down, But I Get Up Again - You're NEVER Gonna Keep Me Down!" -
Chumbawumba
bill metsiac
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 4000
(9/25/01 9:47:57 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
You're absolutely right, Doc, and there was a perfect illustration of it Sunday. Shinjo struck out
twice in key situations, but was remembered only for his great fielding play. Mando was 41-43 in
saves, but ripped for "choking" in pressure situations because of this game. And one day earlier
he was a top candidate here for team MVP for '01!!!
Go figure...
IT AIN'T OVER!!!
IF YOU LOSE THE FAITH, YOU LOSE!! THE FAITH LIVES ON!! LGM!!!
METSSC
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 4569
(9/25/01 10:23:55 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
Right on Doc.
The term booby meaning a stupid person dates to about 1599. It probably comes from the
Spanish bobo meaning the same thing as well as being the name of the type of bird--which were
slow, stupid and easy to kill. The sense meaning breast is 20th century coinage, but traces back
to the mid-17th century with the term bubby meaning the same thing
The Big Train
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 4918
(9/25/01 10:43:18 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
I always get frustrated with expressions like, "Sure he's got good stats, but I get agita when he
enters the game."
I had the same feelings with John Franco, Anthony Young, Randy Myers, Roger McDowell, Jesse
Orosco, Doug Sisk, Neil Allen, Jeff Reardon, and Bob Apodaca. If I wasn't too young too
understand baseball well, I'm sure I would have gotten agita when Tug McGraw entered the game.
In no cases was the feeling the fault of the closer. It's a close game with a win on the line. If you
care, you'll have agita anyway.
This is akin to saying, "Sure they save a lot of people, but I get worried when I see firemen enter
my neighbor's house."
Baseball Mom
Mets Hall-Of-Famer
Posts: 8207
(9/25/01 11:12:27 am)
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Re: Closers are not people...
Agita and Tug - recently, I saw a clip of the 9th inning of the 1980 Phillies/Royals World Series,
with Tug on the mound. If you were pulling for the Phillies to win their first World Series title, that
would have been all-time agita.
"I Get Knocked Down, But I Get Up Again - You're NEVER Gonna Keep Me Down!" -
Chumbawumba
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