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KTE - Pittsburgh Pirates

Lundy
Jul 24 2007 08:24 AM

I didn't have enough time to put together a visual KTE for the Pirates this time, so I'll just post the notes I made, and feel free to add anything that I've missed:

THE TEAM:

The Pirates have been perrenial bottom-feeders for the last decade or so, and this season is no different. They are in fifth place in the NL Central and only a half game ahead of the cellar-dwelling Cincinnati Reds. They are coming off of successive series losses to division rivals Houston Astros and Colorado Rockies.

THE PLAYERS:

Playing first base for the Pirates these days is Adam LaRoche. A familiar face to Mets fans, this is his first year in Pittsburgh after three years with the Atlanta Braves.

Freddy Sanchez is manning second base, and while he hit a career-best .344 last season, he's hitting .295 this season.

Jack Wilson is at shortstop, but the Pirates recently acquired former Dodger, and former Cub, Cesar Izturis, and it has been rumored that Wilson is on the way out with the trading deadline approaching.

The hot corner for the Bucs is manned by Jose Castillo, whose numbers are down this season, batting .238 with no homers and 10 rbi.

In left field the Pirates have Jason Bay, who is hitting .246 with 13 homers and 60 rbi.

The Pirates' centerfielder Nate McLouth is also their leadoff hitter, but he's only scored 21 times and has six stolen bases.

And in right field, a man who knows a thing or two about playing at Shea--Xavier Nady. He's having a pretty respectable year, batting .280 with 14 home runs and 52 rbi.

Ronny Paulino wears the tools of ignorance for the Bucs. He's got a little pop in his bat with five home runs.


PITCHING:

This is where the Mets can get into trouble, as the Pirates will have their top three starters going against the Mets. Tonight they put up Ian Snell (7-7, 3.31) against John Maine, Tom Gorzelanny (9-5, 3.20) goes against Tom Glavine on Wednesday, and Paul Maholm (6-12, 4.57) goes against former Pirate Oliver Perez on Thursday.

EX-FACTOR:

who more appropriate to be the lone ex-Met on the Pirates than the X-Man himself, Xavier Nady?

Edgy DC
Jul 24 2007 08:41 AM

In a world where the batting average champion is still called the "batting champion," Freddy Sanchez's championship was a sweet little cherry for the Bucs last year, but he's below average at both second and third, has little offensive secondary skills, and isn't the player to build around that he once was.

Their other centefielder --- Chris Duffy --- hit when he first came up, but is looking like Nook Logan in Washington or Jeff Duncan for the 2004 Mets or Rod Kanehl for the early Mets, a young athletic outfield ballhawk who has been overmatched by big-league pitching. He may be coming off the DL.

The real assets to build around are Gorzeallyn and Snell, who've been a second-division answer to what Peavy and Young have been in San Diego. If Zack Duke ever finds himself again...

Get a good look at vet relievers Damaso Marte and Salamon Torres, both of whom the Bucs are looking to dump.

This piece is cruel and bitter, and as good as any about the state of the Bucs.

The sad thing is the division is there to be taken, this year or next, by any team with a plan and some moxie.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 24 2007 08:44 AM

I believe Jose Bautista is the regular 3Bman, he's not having a good series either. Matt Capps and Damaso marte are the relief studs but the only two relievers you DON'T want to see on that squad.

Pirates illustrate the danger of having just a few holes in the lineup and flimsy pitching depth. On the surface they appear to be an OK team. Merge the Reds and Pirates, and look out!

I read somewhere the Mets have a thing for Ronny Paulino.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 24 2007 08:49 AM

Johnny Dickshot wrote:
I read somewhere the Mets have a thing for Ronny Paulino.


Yeah, me too. I think it was in the Daily News. Something about how he's being considered to replace Lo Duca next year.

What's really important about this series is that the Mets need to win, and win, and win. It's a chance to beat up on a losing team and in a close division race you have to win the games you're supposed to win.

I'll reluctantly settle for two wins out of three, but anything less than three wins is a missed opportunity.

DocTee
Jul 24 2007 09:33 AM

I've always had a soft spot for the Pirates. Maybe it was the Stargell Stars or the fact that I came of Baseball Age when they won in 1979.

If Paulino leaves, they have a decent replacement in second-year man Ryan Doumit, whom many predicted would win ROY when he first came up.

Instead of the Cubs, Mark Cuban should buy this team-- it is, after all, his hometown, and I bet he would show a real commitment to building a winner there.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 24 2007 09:46 AM

The Pirates were my first World Champion too, in 1971.

It was hard not to like a team that had Stargell and Clemente. I'm trying to remember some of the 1971 Pirates baseball cards that I have. Rennie Stennett? Luke Walker. Nelson Briles. Richie Hebner. Bill Robinson?

metirish
Jul 24 2007 10:03 AM

I like them,if I lived there I'd be a big fan,like the history of the team.



What's In A Name?

An "Act of Piracy" it was called after Manager Ed Hanlon signed a loose infielder claimed by the American Association. Thus the Pittsburgh Pirates came into being. The year was 1891, and the Alleghenies, as they had been known, were last in the National League, but improving. In the previous season they had accomplished the distinctive feat of winning 23 games while losing 113.

The Alleghenies were organized in 1876 as the city's first professional baseball club. Five years later they were playing in the new American Association, called the "Beer and Whiskey League" because most of its six teams were backed by liquor distillers. In 1887, they joined the National League and moved into Exposition Park, a former race track on the banks of the Allegheny River.

The hapless Alleghenies were the league's worst team, always finishing in last place. In 1891, the team acquired Louis Bierbauer, the disputed player, and became known around the league as the Pirates. The term stuck and soon was adopted as the team's official name. The alleged theft helped the team to their only winning season of the 19th century, finishing second in 1893.

In 1900, Barney Dreyfuss brought his team up from Louisville and merged with the Pirates. The Pirates became instant winners, finishing first from 1900 to 1903. They won a World Series in 1909 and posted winning seasons in the first 14 years of the 20th century.

Today's Pirates may resemble the hapless Alleghenies of the 1800s, and may have to resort to another act of piracy to somehow climb out of the cellar of despair. But, despite their mediocre performance in the first years of the 21st century, they are our beloved Pirates and have built up quite a legacy in their nearly 130 years as a professional franchise.

A last note on "Pirates." When modern professional football came to the city on September 20, 1933, the first game was played at Forbes Field in front of 25,000 fans. The final score: New York Giants 20, Pittsburgh Pirates 2. The team, owned by Arthur J. Rooney soon changed their name to Steelers. Forty-odd years later, the Pittsburgh Steelers combined with the Pittsburgh Pirates to give the city a new name. During the decade of the 1970s, Pittsburgh was known as the "City of Champions."

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 24 2007 10:14 AM

Let us not forget Jim Leyland's Bonds/Bonilla/Van Slyke Pirates of the early 1990's. They never reached a World Series (although they came very close) but they were the class of the NL East for a few years.

I remember they also had some pretty good starting pitching, but the only name that comes to mind right now is Doug Drabek.

That team, so far, has been the last outstanding team that the Pirates have had. And they kept the Mets out of the playoffs in 1990.

I also remember, I think in 1984, the Mets closed the season in Pittsburgh and it was speculated that that might be the final game the Pirates would play there. There had been a rumor that the Pirates might relocate to Washington DC over the offseason. I don't think that move ever came close to fruition, but it does show that the city's hold on the Pirates became rather tenuous for a while there.

attgig
Jul 24 2007 10:22 AM

DocTee wrote:
I've always had a soft spot for the Pirates. Maybe it was the Stargell Stars or the fact that I came of Baseball Age when they won in 1979.

If Paulino leaves, they have a decent replacement in second-year man Ryan Doumit, whom many predicted would win ROY when he first came up.

Instead of the Cubs, Mark Cuban should buy this team-- it is, after all, his hometown, and I bet he would show a real commitment to building a winner there.




that's what i thought too, when i first heard about cuban.

having spent 4 years in pittsburgh for college, i tooo have a soft spot for the pirates. and i think if mets fans have anything for them, it might be ralph kiner.

anyways, i really hope that they find a new gm. someone who'll actually be able to gauge talent. littlefield doesn't suck as bad as bonifay, but still. he hasn't done much.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 24 2007 10:39 AM

Notable Met-Pirate games:

Aug. 27, 1963: Grover Powell, who a week before made a magnificent debut start for the Mets (a 4-hit, shutout of Philly) is working on another shutout in Pittsburgh when Donn Clendennon leads off the 5th by lining a shot off Powell's face (and over to SS Al Moran, who throws Clendennon out at first). Powell, who left the game to get medical attention and got a non-decision, never pitched another good game after that and failed to get out of the minors in subsequent years.

Anyone else with a notable Met-Pirate game? (I have 2 others in mind)

metirish
Jul 24 2007 10:41 AM

This will be Nady's first time back at Shea since the trade.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 24 2007 10:42 AM

Brad Clontz, wild pitch, October 3, 1999:

http://ultimatemets.com/gamedetail.php?gameno=6065

Puts the Mets into a one-game playoff with Cincinnati for the NL Wild Card.

metsguyinmichigan
Jul 24 2007 10:50 AM

Speaking of the Pirates...we had a wonderful time in Pittsburgh two years ago exploring stadia both old and new.

PNC is a real treat. Absolutely beautiful. And I like how the university has preserved parts of Forbes.

Here's the link to the blog, if you are interested. (I'll have the photos back on it later today.)

http://metsguyinmichigan.blogspot.com/2005/07/ballpark-ghosts-forbes-field-where.html

DocTee
Jul 24 2007 10:58 AM

Straw hit his first homer off the Bucs Lee Tunnell i believe.

Gwreck
Jul 24 2007 11:02 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote:
Let us not forget Jim Leyland's Bonds/Bonilla/Van Slyke Pirates of the early 1990's. They never reached a World Series (although they came very close) but they were the class of the NL East for a few years.

I remember they also had some pretty good starting pitching, but the only name that comes to mind right now is Doug Drabek.


Bob Walk and John Smiley.

Gwreck
Jul 24 2007 11:03 AM

Ex-Pirates on the Mets: Perez, naturally. Also Moises Alou (his first team).

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 24 2007 11:05 AM

How could I forget John Smiley?

Edgy DC
Jul 24 2007 11:22 AM

August 12, 1977: The Mets 1977 disaster continues with a 6-5, 12-inning loss against Pittsburgh, in which Ed Ott slides hard into Felix Millan. Some accounts say that Millan yelled at Ott regarding the violence of the slide, others say he provoked Ott with a hard tag. Most all agree, however, that the briefly named Ott picked up the 30-pound-lighter Millan and threw him down on the turf of Three Rivers, badly injuring his shoulder, breaking his collarbone, and bringing his 12-year career to an end.

Millan would return with the Taiyo Whales of the Nippon Central League, and become notable by bieng the first western player to participate in the famously brutal winter training that Japanese teams were known to put their players through.

Lance Johnson's Met record of 227 hits in 1996 remains off the charts, thirty more than the next best season, but few recall that it was MIillan's 1975 mark of 191 that Johnson broke.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 24 2007 11:37 AM

I'm also kinda partial to this game, June 30, 1978. I even wrote an award-losing song about it!

Frayed Knot
Jul 24 2007 01:28 PM

Sept 20, 1973

I remember staying up late listening on the radio to [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN197309200.shtml]this one[/url] as the sub-.500 Mets were
trying to catch the barely .500 1st place Pirates.

- Down 1-0, the Mets tie it in the 6th (Jones 1Bs in Garrett)
- Pirates score again in the 7th, Mets tie it in the 8th (Millan 1Bs in Martinez)
- Pirates go ahead in the 9th, Mets tie it again on a 2-out Duffy Dyer 2B
- Mets get 2 on in the 12th ... but can't score
- And finally in the 13th, a Ron Hodges single plates John Milner

Every game was crucial coming down the stretch that year, and this was one of those
make-or-break games.

It was also the night of the BJ King / Bobby Riggs tennis match, and the night signer
Jim Croce's plane went down.
To this day whenever someone mentions either of those events my first reaction is; 'Oh yeah,
I remember that night ... the Mets beat the Pirates in a real thriller'.

G-Fafif
Jul 24 2007 01:48 PM

At the bus stop the next morning, fifth grade, somebody's father asked if any of us had seen last night's Mets game. I volunteered that I had and wow, it was great. He was all "what are you doing staying up that late?"

I'm thinking then as I'm thinking now, don't ask the first question if you're going to come back with the second question.

Though I know the date of all three 9/20/73 events you mention by heart, this is the first time I've ever realized that Croce went down the same night Dave Augustine's fly ball bounced up. Time in a bottle, indeed.

As for Ron Hodges sharing sports immortality with Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs, a friend and I discussed whether there were any other instances of a major Met moment coinciding with another legendary same-date sporting event. The only one we could come up with was the U.S. Women's Soccer team (Brandi Chastain showing great enthusiasm) winning the World Cup on July 10, 1999, same day that Matt Franco did in Mariano Rivera. Having been at Shea and completely wrapped up in Mets 9 Yankees 8, I was legitimately surprised the soccer thing was a big deal. This was 1999. Nothing else existed next to the Mets.

Re: KTE subject matter -- Let us not forget it was the Pirates who swept the Mets last September and delayed their clinching three days. Their sentence for this heinous crime has been commuted, however, seeing as how this allowed a Shea celebration on September 18.

smg58
Jul 24 2007 06:17 PM

Zach Duke will pitch well again once he wears a different uniform.

I get the feeling Paulino (and/or Ryan Doumit) will be among several young catchers Minaya will look at in the offseason. The free agents are LoDuca and Posada, both of whom are 35, and Michael Barrett, whose rapport with the pitchers in Chicago left a lot to be desired. I'd be most curious to know what the Indians would want for Kelly Shoppach, though.