Forum Home

Master Index of Archived Threads


Tell The Mets It's Never Too Late

G-Fafif
Jul 21 2007 11:00 PM

...to retire a deserving number, that is.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/wires/07/21/2010.ap.bbn.pirates.waner.0612/

http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18608726&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478568&rfi=6

DocTee
Jul 21 2007 11:14 PM

Now maybe they'll retire Kiner's, too.

Gwreck
Jul 21 2007 11:34 PM

It's already retired in Pittsburgh.

Greg, who exactly did you have in mind for the Mets to retire?

SteveJRogers
Jul 22 2007 05:28 AM

="Gwreck"]It's already retired in Pittsburgh.

Greg, who exactly did you have in mind for the Mets to retire?


[url=http://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/5/18/2959967.html]Greg is thinking 24 for Willie Mays,[/url]

Something inneresting though from the Beaver County Times article

]The Pirates haven't retired a number since putting away Ralph Kiner's No. 4 in 1987. That was a no-brainer and something that should have been done far earlier. Kiner remains arguably the most-popular Pirates player in history as he led the National League in home runs for seven straight seasons from 1946-52 despite playing in Forbes Field, a longball graveyard.


Hmmmm. More popular than any of the HOF members of the championship squads of 60, 71 and 79? Oh yeah I know "Donnie No Rings" is very popular here in NYC and gets the loudest ovations at Old Timers Day but thats generally in part because Mattingly has been retired for only 10 seasons and the majority of the other more popular MFY are either dead, their fanbases for whatever reason are not in the ballpark for OTD any more, and certain players since 1996 are yet to show up to Old Timers Day.

DocTee
Jul 22 2007 08:21 AM

]DocTee Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:14 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now maybe they'll retire Kiner's, too.

Gwreck wrote: It's already retired in Pittsburgh.


I stand corrected. Was thinking of Marty Noble's crusade to have a more appropriate statue of RK at PNC, as is done for some of the other Pirate greats--seems all they have is a figure of his hands beneath a stairweel in LF.

G-Fafif
Jul 22 2007 06:43 PM

Gwreck wrote:
It's already retired in Pittsburgh.

Greg, who exactly did you have in mind for the Mets to retire?


Keith mostly. Now that David Newhan has gone down bayou way, I'm hoping 17 can be shaken free from the clutches of mediocrity.

Paul Waner, 55 years. What the heck were they waiting for?

I saw Lloyd Waner take a swing at age 70 in an Old Timers game at Shea in 1976. Seventy was a lot more doddering back then (or I was 31 years younger).

G-Fafif
Jul 22 2007 06:47 PM

Bite it, Pittsburgh. Ralph's ours.

iramets
Jul 22 2007 06:56 PM
Re: Tell The Mets It's Never Too Late

Here's a counter-argument: You don't retire numbers just cause it would be sweet to do so. You need players who

1)played all or virtually all of their careers with your franchise. Keith played here for a few key years, and was the guts of the mid-80s Mets, it's true, but he only had a handful of big seasons for the Mets. He got old early and basically was mediocre after messing up his hamstring in mid-'88. Four good years do not a retired number make.

2) played longer for your franchise, or at least better, than for any other. Keith put in almost a decade for the Cardinals, and was a better player overall for them than for the Mets. You don't retire the number of a player on the other team.


3) played clearly better for your team than any other contemporary. Keith was very good, but are you prepared to say definitively that he was a better Met than Doc or Darryl or Carter? I'm not, and I just love the guy.

You're puffing up Hernandez into being slightly better than he actually was, just because you want a retired number.

Iubitul
Jul 22 2007 07:24 PM

I have to agree with all of ira's points, except for the very last one. I don't think Greg is just puffing up Keith for a retired number.

now - looking at those three criteria - does Piazza's number get retired? I say yes.

Frayed Knot
Jul 22 2007 07:44 PM

I've been espousing the "counter" arguments for years across these and other airwaves.
Fewer retired numbers is better than more IMO.

Induction to the Met Hall of Fame (which hopefully will be more accessible in the new joint)
is a good in-between step to honor top Mets while saving the retired number stage for
the truly special - like along the lines of Ira's conditions.

I suspect they'll retire Piazza's 31 but it wouldn't bother me a bit if they didn't.
Talk to me in 15 years about #5 & #7

SteveJRogers
Jul 22 2007 07:56 PM

Careful there BretSalaDocRa, Greg does have a soft spot for Keith and his Metness

From April of 2007:


]
The team will also honor its 1967 and 1982 World Championship teams in recognition of their 40th and 25th anniversaries, respectively, with such standouts as Lou Brock, Bob Gibson, Whitey Herzog, Keith Hernandez and Bruce Sutter scheduled to attend.

Which of those Cards is not like the other? Right. There's a Cardinal in there who became a Met on June 15, 1983 and we're not giving him back. I know it's just for an evening, for festivities' sake, for milestone purposes (and who wallows in a good milestone anniversary more than me?). I know we're not swapping him out retroactively for Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey. I know The Baseball Encyclopedia doesn't come with disappearing ink for everything he accomplished once his paychecks weren't signed in Bud.

But no sir, I don't like it. I don't like that Keith would forgive the Cardinals when a measly quarter-century has yet to pass. I don't like the way Keith yammers on a little too fondly about his Cardinal days during Mets telecasts. I'm a little worn by his yammering on about his Met days during Mets telecasts, actually, because I could use a touch more yammer about these Met days during Mets telecasts, no matter what kind of hammer Atlee Hammaker dropped on him for strike three when the world was young, but that's another story.

Keith the Cardinal was outstanding. Keith the Met remains iconic.
Keith the Cardinal won a World Series. Keith the Met won the World Series.
Keith was a Most Valuable Cardinal. Keith was The Indispensable Met.
Keith was their star. Keith was our Captain.

If Keith were entering the Hall of Fame (if only petitioning made it so), then which cap do you think he'd be wearing? Which cap do you think he should be wearing?

Keith is Ours as few have been even if we keep issuing 17 to every Dae-Sung and Lima that comes down the pike (pending massively wonderful revelations to the contrary, David Newhan ain't worthy either). The Redbirds renounced their Keith rights when Ratzog discarded him not eight months beyond that '82 championship they're suddenly intent on marking. St. Louis turned on Mex. Mex turned on New York and we were totally plugged into Mex. For all his Keithfoolery on the air, it doesn't take much to close one's eyes and picture in his prime the Second-Greatest Met of the First Forty Years — fielding, hitting, leading...always leading. Leading us in '84 and '85 and '86 as he targeted the gray at Shea and replaced it with sunny bursts of blue and orange. Those colors, like Keith, were Just For Mets.

Keith Hernandez invited back by the Cardinals? On one of his myriad days off from the booth, I wouldn't blink because I understand the concept of completism and squaring circles and players honoring their pasts because they are the fans' pasts, too (Ozzie Guillen would scoff at such sentimentality, but when doesn't Ozzie Guillen scoff?). That he's throwing out the first ball for our Home Opener makes me feel somewhat less queasy, but trotting out Keith Hernandez as their own on the night they raise their flag in our face after having secured it at the expense of us...pass the Pepto.

metsfanbook
Jul 22 2007 09:08 PM

Of the names mentioned, I'd only support retiring Piazza's 31. Mays was one of the greatest players of all time, but he came to the Mets long past his prime and he only really had symbolic value on the team. I think a player whose number is retired has to have a major influence on the team's history and fortunes. And the influence can't just be sentimental (as it was with Kranepool or Wilson). I'd support Hernandez only if Koosman, McGraw, Carter, and Strawberry were also retired. I think that those are the only Mets to have had a comparable impact. Obviously, where you draw the line is pretty arbitrary. But I'd draw the line either to include only Seaver and Piazza, or to include these two plus the other four I've mentioned.

Edgy DC
Jul 22 2007 09:12 PM

The argument for retirement of Mays' number is the argument that the Mets are carrying forward the New York Giants' legacy (or, at least, his legacy with the New York Giants) more than the San Franciscos are.

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 22 2007 09:25 PM

I think the Mets could end the whole limbo thing by retiring No. 24 for Joan Payson, but I don't think the current ownership cares about the former ownership, and I don't know if there's any Paysons or DeRoulets around anymore who give a shit.

I think Keith can get a 17 retirement eventually by continuing to be a good org soldier. But it's way too early in his broadcast career to bestow such an honor. He could at any time say something that would embarrass them. I realize that's a point in favor of retiring his number but ownership wouldn't see it that way.

Frayed Knot
Jul 22 2007 09:26 PM

The other thing is, I like it when a new player carries on the tradition started by an earlier player
by wearing his number.
Reyes even knows (was told most likely) about Ed Kranepool and his time with the Mets and I think
his playing with #7 adds to Krane's legacy rather than takes away from it.

Then, if someone wears a particular number both at a top level and for all or most of his career,
that digit can then be set aside as a special one never to be duplicated.
41 is the only one that has done that to date for me.


btw, the Yanx have cheapened the "honor" IMO by over-doing it for good but not great, or for
short-term great players: Guidry, Howard, Martin, Nettles;
as well as for those who were non-Yanx longer than they were ever pin-stripers: Jackson, Maris, Winfield, etc.

Gwreck
Jul 22 2007 09:27 PM

The curious thing is that #17 has been handed out liberally but #8 is in semi-retirement now that Carter has reached the HOF.

I'm not sure I'd agree that Hernandez' number should be retired, but it certainly would go before Carter's ever would.

SteveJRogers
Jul 22 2007 09:35 PM

Frayed Knot wrote:


btw, the Yanx have cheapened the "honor" IMO by over-doing it for good but not great, or for
short-term great players: Guidry, Howard, Martin, Nettles;
as well as for those who were non-Yanx longer than they were ever pin-stripers: Jackson, Maris, Winfield, etc.


Nettles wasn't, it was only retired for Maris and Winfield's 31 has not been retired.

Howard at least was a "pioneer" for the Yanks and a longtime employee as a coach for the Yanks who died suddenly. Martin, Reggie and Maris were probably all done in a way to keep them "in the Yankee family"

Hey JD, where is that column you wrote on the Yanks retiring Guidry's number?

Its because of the bloating that Yankee fans have come to want Paul O'Neil's number to be retired as well.

Frayed Knot
Jul 22 2007 09:40 PM

That's right, they were going to do Winfield but changed their minds after he "dis-honored" them
by going into the HoF as a Padre ... as if that alone made his NYY career less worthy.

Edgy DC
Jul 22 2007 09:51 PM

Gwreck wrote:
The curious thing is that #17 has been handed out liberally but #8 is in semi-retirement now that Carter has reached the HOF.


I think part of that is his former teammates requesting the number to honor him.

SteveJRogers
Jul 22 2007 09:52 PM

I think Rizzuto's number was also retired simply because Steinbrenner wanted to do what Cooperstown was not doing.

3, 4, 5, 7, both 8s, 10 (this I'll give them though), 16, 37
Those are the Yankee numbers that meet Bret's criteria.

As I said 1, 9, 44 were primarily ego-f**ks to keep the players that they were honoring "happy" and part of the Yankee family for the rest of their days.

15, 23, 32, 49. As I said Howard was more paying tribute to a long-time employee of the team, Thurm was honoring a great player cut down, Mattingly, despite lacking the WS rings and the HOF status is a freaking GOD in this town, and Guidry, like Paul O'Neill now, was one of those "When are they retiring his number?" guys that sports radio and internet message boards would be filled with.

I think an original plan was to retire 30 as well the same day as 49 right around the time Willie Randolph finally called it a career, but something happened on Gator's end that he had to drop out. Still odd that they never followed up (assuming it was true) on retiring 30 while Randolph was still there.

Edgy DC
Jul 22 2007 09:56 PM

God?

Johnny Dickshot
Jul 22 2007 10:04 PM

Don't interrupt him.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 23 2007 07:16 AM

Retired numbers is one of the few things the Mets have done right.

I have no problem with 37, 14, or 41. (Although 37 may have been unnecessary.)

I would absolutely NOT retire 24, 36, 17, 8, or 1. And if 31 was up to me, I'd lean towards no.

Piazza had no World Championships, no MVP's, and was in decline for more than half of his Mets career.

Let's watch and see if Wright and Reyes can have the kind of career that calls for retiring their numbers. (I'd say 10 to 15 years as a Met and a trip to Cooperstown.)

In other words, many years should pass before the Mets retire another number.

DocTee
Jul 23 2007 07:30 AM

I'm with Yancy.

Something I might support at CitiField is what they have at AT&T Park in SF-- in addition to those NY/SF Giant numbers that are retired (and in some cases, like Chrsity Mathewson and John McGraw, these players pre-date uni numbers). All of these are memorialized on baseball-shaped plaques hung from the upper-deck facade. Additionally, in the same place and manner, HOF broadcaster Russ Hodges is remembered, with a name and image of an old-time microphone. The Mets should do that for Murph and Kiner, too, and perhaps others (Joan Payson, Bill Shea)

I'll try to find some images in case my description is unclear.

Edit: In case??

Edgy DC
Jul 23 2007 07:30 AM

There's a Jon Franco factor in two of these decisions.

Does Mike Piazza's Met legacy make 31 untouchable? Maybe not. Does Mike Piazza's Met Legacy plus Jon Franco's Met legacy make it untouchable? Maybe so.

Does Tug McGraw's Met legacy make 45 untouchable? Probably not. Does Tug McGraw's Met legacy plus Tug McGraw's baseball character legacy plus Tug McGraw's premature death plus John Franco's (shorter) Met legacy make it untouchable. Maybe so.

I'm not arguing for either, but Franco, while not getting a win, may get two saves.

soupcan
Jul 23 2007 07:34 AM

I like how the Red Sox do it.

You have to have played at least 10 years for the Red Sox and be a Hall of Famer.

End of story, case closed.

HahnSolo
Jul 23 2007 08:44 AM

I don't believe we should be retiring 17 or 8 (and certainly not 24), but having the #37 up on the wall, in my opinion, opens the door to discussion.

Granted, I'm only old enough to remember the Old Professor as a crazy old man stomping around the field during Old timers Day ceremonies, so I can't remember his time as manager. Maybe I'm not the best judge, I don't know.

It's easy to explain to my kids why #s 14 and 41 will never be worn again. Why 37 is retired baffles me.

Edgy DC
Jul 23 2007 09:16 AM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jul 23 2007 09:33 AM

The culture of the early Mets. He helped define the team and its relationship to the city. It's hard to appreciate now because the culture has evolved and incorporated many other things, and because we assume the team would have developed some relationship of one sort or another.

There's an argument against that, but the guy helped a buffoon team outsell the mighty Yankees, and, in retirement, remained as much a symbol of the team as Mr. Met. Ours was a loveable everyman team, in success as well as failure, even if everyman was a wizened old coot.

He continued to escort Mrs. Payson on Old Timer's Day. And the lady took care of her own. We may be a different sort of team now, but what's done is done. And we can do worse than remember where we came from.

Benjamin Grimm
Jul 23 2007 09:24 AM

Well said.

Casey's contribution certainly can't be judged by his wins and losses as a manager. But, as much as anybody, he helped the franchise establish itself. None of the other founders wore a uniform number, so Casey's 37 in a way stands for all of them.

I can see how he can be seen as less deserving than Hodges or Seaver, but I don't think they erred in retiring Casey Stengel's number.

SteveJRogers
Jul 23 2007 05:31 PM

For comparison sake, lets look at other retired unis
Angels kick us off with 5. 26 for “The Singing Cowboy” in honor of his being the 26th man for Anaheim in 1982. If Autry wanted to honor himself then why the heck not. 29 Rod Carew and 30 Nolan Ryan (while Ryan was still active as a Ranger) were put into mothballs in advance of their HOF enshrinements. Certainly Ryan’s Angel career was probably more important than Carew’s was, Ryan blossomed in California and was the anchor of the staff while Carew brought his legend there and helped lead the way to two AL West crowns.

50 Jimmie Reese in honor of the coach’s 50 years in pro ball. Again its hard to quibble as its not like the Angels have gone overboard with numbers and it is so high up that it is a coach/Spring Training number.

11 Jim Fregosi. Huh? Okay he was a very popular player, and did net a future HOFer and managed the team to their first AL West Crown but I guess I’ll have to know more about Angel history, maybe he was the first genuinely big star in Angel history.

Astros go a bit of an overload with 34 Ryan being the only HOFer of the bunch. Offensive stars like 24 Jimmy Wynn, 25 Jose Cruz and 5 Jeff Bagwell (he’ll probably make the Hall though) and of course Craig Biggio (who defiantly will be in Cooperstown) when he hangs them up. Also pitching standouts like 33 Mike Scott and 49 Larry Dierker (who did lead them to multiple NL Central crowns as skipper) Also two RIP uniform retirements for 32 Jim Umbricht and 40 Don Wilson.

Back to just the Hall of Famers with the Athletics
For reasons unknown no Philadelphia A is so honored (a number of the Oakland honorees played in KC but no genuine KC A really should be honored) but the A’s have 4 numbers retired, all 4 played the majority of their careers or at least built their legacy as A’s. 27 Catfish Hunter, 34 Rollie Fingers, 9 Reggie Jackson and 43 Dennis Eckersley. Also all 4 were retired after gaining entry into Cooperstown. They also have honored the late owner during the 80’s run, Walter Hass.

None for the Blue Jays as they have a “Level Of Honor” as a Hall of Fame for great players and other personnel

Same holds for the Braves’ 5 with the exception of Dale Murphy’s # 3, though all would be retired before they were enshrined. 21 Warren Spahn, 41 Eddie Mathews, 44 Hank Aaron and 35 Phil Niekro (while Knuksie was still active!) Wouldn’t be surprised to see at least 47 for Glavine, 29 for Smoltz and 10 for Larry.

Brewers also honor the Hall of Famers, though one will quibble 44 Aaron as he only played 2 seasons. Ditto with 34 Rollie Fingers, but again the only other two are Brewers in the HOF, 19 Robin Yount and 4 Paul Molitor.

Skipping ahead to the Cubs who also are quite skimpy on the numbers and with the exception of 10 Ron Santo, which was probably done with an eye towards getting him into the Hall, the honorees are all Cubbie HOFers. 14 Ernie Banks, 26 Billy Williams and 23 Ryne Sandberg

Devil Rays’ 12 for Wade Boggs is an absolute joke and a waste of time to even discuss. Their expansion brothers the Diamondbacks have yet to retire a number, though I’d expect 51 for Randy Johnson to be put aside.

Cardinals and Dodgers have 10 each (and one “name” for the Cardinals honoring Rogers Hornsby) but at least the majority are all HOFers who are known for their days in St. Louis and Brooklyn/LA
Cardinals: 6 Stan Musial, 17 Dizzy Dean, 45 Bob Gibson, 20 Lou Brock, 1 Ozzie Smith (all except for ‘Ole Diz done in advance of Cooperstown) as well as 2 Red Schoendienst, who is a long time Cardinal employee, 9 Enos Slaughter and 42 Bruce Sutter. Cards also have honored 14 for an ill Ken Boyer and 85 (hard to quibble with that high of a number) for the 85 year old owner August Busch. Also the Cardinals honor Jack Buck with a microphone.

Dodgers: All except for Alston after their inductions, 32 Sandy Koufax, 39 Roy Campanella, 42 Jackie Robinson, 24 Walt Alston, 4 Duke Snider, 1 Pee Wee Reese, 53 Don Drysdale, 2 Tom Lasorda and 20 Don Sutton. Lone exception is honoring the sudden death of long time player and coach, 19 Jim Gilliam.

The Giants also have a bloated list with 12 honorees, 8 players and 4 names, but all are Hall of Famers though. The names are broadcast legends Russ Hodges and Lon Simmons along with New York legends Christy Mathewson and John McGraw. The players; 11 Carl Hubbell, 4 Mel Ott, 24 Willie Mays, 27 Juan Marichal, 44 Willie McCovey, 3 Bill Terry, 30 Orlando Cepeda and 36 Gaylord Perry. Probably the only quibble is Perry in terms of his Giant career as opposed to his time in Cleveland and San Diego, but hey he is still a HOFer and in as a Giant. All except for Terry, Cepeda, Perry and the names were done before their inductions into Cooperstown.

Cleveland has 7 numbers on the wall, though 6 players as they honored their streak of 455 consecutive sellouts from 95 to 01 with a “retirement.” For the most part they are HOFers, 3 Earl Averill, 5 Lou Boudreau, 19 Bob Feller, 21 Bob Lemon and 14 Larry Doby. The lone exception, 18 Mel Harder who after a fine career was a coach with the Indians for a long time as well.

The Mariners have no retired unis, however 24 has yet to be used since Ken Griffey Jr. was traded to the Reds prior to the 2000 season.

The Marlins have one uni retired, #5 in honor of the late Carl Barger who was named the Team President in July of 1991, died suddenly before the Fish ever played their first game. The Marlins chose the uniform of Barger’s all time favorite player, Joe DiMaggio.

For what its worth the Expos put 3 numbers, honoring 4 players in mothballs. All three have appeared on the backs of Washington Nationals. 8 for Hall of Famer Gary Carter, 10 for fan favorites Rusty Staub and Andre Dawson, and 30 for fan favorite Tim Raines.

Baltimore with 6 also continues the trend of just the no doubt future HOFers with 20 Frank Robinson, 5 Brooks Robinson, 4 Earl Weaver, 22 Jim Palmer, 33 Eddie Murray and 8 Cal Ripken

Then we have the Padres. While only 4 retired jerseys they do seem to be all over the map. 6 for Steve Garvey and 35 for Randy Jones would indicate some sort of honoring great Padres, but then they have only honored Dave Winfield’s 31 after his induction and Tony Gwynn’s 19 after he retired.

Both Pennsylvania teams have a bunch. Phillies with 5 numbers and 2 names, all HOFers though. 4 were done in advance of their enshrinement, 36 Robin Roberts, 1 Richie Ashburn, 32 Steve Carlton and 20 Mike Schmidt while 14 Jim Bunning was not. Also when Bunning’s was retired it gave the Phillies the opportunity to honor Philly legends before there were numbers. So Grover Alexander and Chuck Klein have their names on the wall.

With Waner’s 11 being retired the Pirates count is 9 numbers. All but two honor HOFers. Both honor popular managers who passed on before hand, 1 Billy Meyer and 40 Danny Murtaugh. The others, 33 Honus Wagner, that was his number as a long time Pirate coach, 20 Pie Traynor, 21 Roberto Clemente, 8 Willie Stargell, 4 Ralph Kiner, and 9 Bill Mazeroski. All but Mazeroski, and Stargell were retired after their inductions.

The Rangers have just two, 34 for Nolan Ryan and 26 for Johnny Oates who managed the team to their postseason appearances.

As we know the Red Sox are even stricter than just Hall of Famers with their 10 year rule which means just 9 Ted Williams, 4 Joe Cronin, 1 Bobby Doerr, 8 Carl Yastrzemski and 27 Carlton Fisk.

The Reds for a lot of years just had 2 retired uniforms, 1 Fred Hutchinson the manager of the 1961 NL Champs who died suddenly in 1964 and 5 for Johnny Bench. Then in 1998 the retired numbers started to balloon. 13 for Davey Concepcion will be the 8th number retired, following 8 Joe Morgan, 18 Ted Kluszewski who was a long time coach after his playing days, 20 Frank Robinson, 24 Tony Perez, and 10 Sparky Anderson. Bench is the only one of the 5 HOFers who the Reds retired the number in advance of their induction into Cooperstown.

None for Colorado.

The Royals only have 3 retired numbers. One is a bit of a Gil Hodges tribute to 10 Dick Howser who died in 1987. 20 Frank White to one of the most popular players in Royals history and of course 5 George Brett.
The Tigers honored 4 Hall of Famers, all years after their inductions with the exception of 6 Al Kaline, as well as a popular player in 23 Willie Horton. The others are 2 Charlie Gehringer, 5 Hank Greenberg and 16 Hal Newhouser. They have also honored the names of HOFers Ty Cobb, Heinie Manush, Hughie Jennings, Sam Crawford, George Kell, Mickey Cochrane and Ernie Harwell.

The Twins are also a team that has both honored popular greats and future HOFers, with their 5 retired unis. 3 Harmon Killebrew, 29 Rod Carew and 34 Kirby Puckett being the HOFers with 6 Tony Oliva and 14 Kent Hrbek being the non-HOFers.

And finally, the White Sox with 8, also a mix of HOFers and non HOFers. 4 Luke Appling, 2 Nellie Fox, 11 Luis Aparicio, 16 Ted Lyons and 72 Carlton Fisk are in the Hall while 9 Minnie Minoso, 19 Billy Pierce and 3 Harold Baines are not.

Looking at the sheer numbers, 157 different men (Jackie Robinson (by the other 29 teams), Ryan (3 times), Reggie, Carew, Fisk, Fingers, Frank Robinson, Aaron, and Stengel are the only multiple honorees) have been honored in this fashion, either with a number or a name alongside the other retired numbers.

Out of that 157 112 are in either the regular HOF or Ford C. Frick winning broadcasters, which leaves 45 who are not in one way or another honored in Cooperstown, of that group.

15 are either memorialized after their passing or the recipients of a tribute before their passing (I’m leaving Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig out of this category, as their numbers should be retired by their respective teams anyway despite the circumstances surrounding their number retirements)

Which leaves 30 numbers for either long time owners (Autry and Busch), a tribute to fans in Cleveland and a tribute to long time franchise favorites even if they fell short (or way short) of Cooperstown.

Nymr83
Jul 23 2007 05:47 PM

you forgot the skankees i think

SteveJRogers
Jul 23 2007 05:51 PM

They are already discussed in this thread, as well as our 3.

Frayed Knot
Aug 04 2007 01:08 PM

One more from the 'Overdoing it' file:

The Yankees - that would be the Staten Island Yankees - are retiring Robinson Cano's number,

His time spent on that team? -- 22 games.

Edgy DC
Aug 04 2007 01:45 PM

Are they still failing to sell like the 'Clones?

SteveJRogers
Aug 26 2007 03:31 PM

Frayed Knot wrote:
One more from the 'Overdoing it' file:

The Yankees - that would be the Staten Island Yankees - are retiring Robinson Cano's number,

His time spent on that team? -- 22 games.


Heh, to be fair (and I'd have to check the records) it might just be honoring those who eventually made it to the bigs. The other two are Ching-Meng Wang and ex-Met Jason Anderson

G-Fafif
Aug 27 2007 12:46 AM

I noticed Eddie Kunz pitching for the Cyclones the other night wearing No. 37 (though he's listed as 46 on their roster). I thought if it's retired by the big club it's retired by the little clubs.

G-Fafif
Aug 27 2007 12:48 AM

SteveJRogers wrote:
Craig Biggio (who defiantly will be in Cooperstown) when he hangs them up.


That Craig Biggio, he's the defiant one all right.

Elster88
Aug 27 2007 04:18 AM

Frayed Knot wrote:
I suspect they'll retire Piazza's 31 but it wouldn't bother me a bit if they didn't.
Talk to me in 15 years about #5 & #7


#15 is an intriguing possibility.