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The Next Twenty Peeps in the Mets Hall of Fame

Edgy MD Aug 04 2005 10:29 AM

Purely for speculation, fun, and, at least in the first case, wishful thinking. 2006) Rube Walker 2007) Dwight Gooden 2008) Darryl Strawberry 2009) Davey Johnson 2010) Frank Cashen 2011) John Franco 2012) Howard Johnson 2013) Tim McCarver 2014) Jack Lang 2015) Nelson Doubleday 2016) Mike Piazza 2017) Sid Fernandez 2018) Al Leiter 2019) Bobby Valentine 2020) Ron Darling 2021) Gary Cohen 2022) Kevin McReynolds (highly controversial) 2023) Marty Noble 2024) Yogi Berra 2025) David Cone Below are others in the conversation, but vulnerable to getting eclipsed by subsequent figures (Wright, Reyes, etc.). Asterisks indicate stature likely to grow over time. Jon Matlack Fred Wilpon* Karl Ehrhardt Jesse Orosco Lee Mazzilli Joe Gergen Edgardo Alfonzo* Howie Rose John Milner Armando Benitez Bobby J. Jones Rick Reed Dave Kingman Todd Hundley John Stearns Ron Swoboda John Olerud Wayne Garrett Bobby Ojeda Bobby Bonilla Hubie Brooks Mel Stottlemyer Craig Swan Lenny Dykstra* Stevie Henderson Jeff Kent George Foster Roger McDowell* Felix Millan

MFS62 Aug 04 2005 10:38 AM

If the Benitez plaque ever gets hung, I hope they coat it with spray paint repellent. Later

seawolf17 Aug 04 2005 10:39 AM

Ditto the Bonilla.

metirish Aug 04 2005 10:45 AM

Great list, hard to imagine Gooden getting in before Strawberry and Franco to name just two, Doc has no ties to the Mets right now, Piazza to get in before 2010, of course things can change.

MFS62 Aug 04 2005 10:49 AM

Is Al Jackson in the Mets HOF? If not, he should be. And I'd put him in before any other new inductee. Later

dgwphotography Aug 04 2005 10:57 AM

Great list: 2006) Rube Walker inspired choice - I like it, a lot. 2007) Dwight Gooden No. Sorry I can't get past it - I always felt like he was a bigger pr*ck than Darryl 2008) Darryl Strawberry Yes - I know that my bias is showing here, but Darryl is the best offensive player to ever come through the farm system he has to get in 2009) Davey Johnson Oh yeah 2010) Frank Cashen See coment for Davey Johnson 2011) John Franco I'd have to make this a grudging yes - I can't stand what he became at the end of his Mets career, but he belongs in 2012) Howard Johnson Um, yeah 2013) Tim McCarver Nope - I can't get past his continued use of pinstriped kneepads 2014) Jack Lang Acknowledged Mets historian, but was he ever an actual Mets employee? 2015) Nelson Doubleday Not as long as a Wilpon owns the team 2016) Mike Piazza This should happen much sooner than 2016 2017) Sid Fernandez No 2018) Al Leiter NO! 2019) Bobby Valentine Big Yes 2020) Ron Darling I'm on the fence with this one 2021) Gary Cohen Not yet 2022) Kevin McReynolds (highly controversial)Definitely not 2023) Marty Noble Like Lang - was he ever an actual Mets employee? 2024) Yogi Berra No 2025) David Cone ehhhhh - on the fence

Edgy MD Aug 04 2005 11:32 AM

Weird stuff here. Keep in mind that this is mostly third-person speculative, with the fore-noted exception of Walker. Almost none of this is actually going to happen. Obviously, the list suggests Bonilla and Benitez are destined to remain forever outside the honor. Reviving Benitez's legacy may be a lost cause. But taking hateful cheap shots at him now is egregious. After his performance against the Mets last year, the people who deserve the criticism are the ones who ran him out of town. That should be Mt. Rushmore obvious. Darryl and Doc's history is what it is. Safe speculation says that the Mets would like to carefully --- as slowly and discretely as necessary --- rehabilitate both players' relationship with the team, it's fans, and decent society. Whether or not they succeed, rehabilitation is almost always the right thing to do. Even rehabbing men from Yankee associations (and yuck to that McCarvermetaphor). It's altogether possible that this time next year Bobby Valentine or Davey Johnson is managing the Yankees. I don't know that Mets employeeship should necessarily be a standard.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 04 2005 11:40 AM

I don't think Bill Shea was ever an employee of the Mets and I believe he's in.

dgwphotography Aug 04 2005 11:42 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I don't know that Mets employeeship should necessarily be a standard. From Answers.com: The New York Mets Hall of Fame was created in 1981 to recognize the careers of former New York Mets players, managers, broadcasters and executives. So I think that employeeship is a standard.

seawolf17 Aug 04 2005 11:43 AM

It's not about employment by the Mets, it's about contribution to the club. (Of course, it's usually hard to do that if you're not employed by the club, but...) Gary Cohen should be in, providing he doesn't jump ship in the next five or ten years. He's got fifteen years behind the microphone already. Along that lines, then, what about Fran Healy? He's been around since 1984. edit: Seeing lubitul's post, maybe I'm wrong.

Edgy MD Aug 04 2005 11:49 AM

Healy's in the conversation also. He's already in the confidence Hall of Fame. Really, all that matters is the next person in. This got weird too fast.

G-Fafif Aug 04 2005 12:04 PM

I've been trying to imagine Rube Walker in the Mets HOF for more than a decade. When that happens, I'll be able to think about inductees for the 19 years that follow. (Though I'm already on record as being immensely down with Cashen and D. Johnson.) http://mets2005.myblogsite.com/blog/_ar ... 00101.html Come to think of it, if we're inducting Rube, why not Piggy? He was here as long and he did plant the tomatoes, a crop I'd like to see tended in NuShea if and when that's ever built. He also has the added asset of being alive to enjoy it.

G-Fafif Aug 04 2005 12:08 PM

Iubitul wrote: So I think that employeeship is a standard. I think the Mets can be flexible about the rules. It's their Hall of Fame. I want to see them be expansive, not restrictive about it. Technically, Gammons and Jerry Coleman didn't go into the National Baseball HOF this past weekend, so do something similar for the writers who did so much to popularize and celebrate the Mets. Create the Jack Lang Award and give the first one to Jack, the second to Marty Noble and take it from there. Don't give one to Dick Young.

Edgy MD Aug 04 2005 12:28 PM

Now that I'm caught, I must acknowledge the obvious --- that this topic is a spinoff of Greg's essay and our subsequent exchange. I've been arguing in a parallel world for Walker for at least as long. The suggestion of the deans of the Mets press corps as well as Karl Ehrhardt is all him though. While neither are high priorities in my book, I applaud his notion of expansive inclusion. Piggy's got his argument, but it's obvious why his case is less than Walker's --- for the same reason a bullpen coach is a lesser role than a pitching coach. But, yeah, He certainly belongs ahead of some on that waiting list. Please note that my list makes some deference for age. After ranking them purely on merit, if I saw that a guy was five years older than the man ahead of him on the list, he jumped, ten years older than the next guy, he jumped again. In the spirit of rehab and reconciliation, I can't see why, if the case can be made for Nelson Doubleday, Wilpon would block it. Unless he believes that Doubleday really is/was virulently anti-Jewish, holding a grudge over a meatless honor for a dotty old man could only reflect poorly on him and the organization.

G-Fafif Aug 04 2005 01:05 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Now that I'm caught, I must acknowledge the obvious --- that this topic is a spinoff of Greg's essay and our subsequent exchange. And my essay was inspired by an entry in Mets Walkoffs... http://metswalkoffs.blogspot.com/2005/0 ... rific.html ...so don't sweat it on steamy afternoon. I've wondered about Doubleday. He may be a difficult electee given his and Wilpon's emnity though one would like to believe differences can be put aside given their dual role in resuscitating the franchise. I've always considered Doubleday more dotty than venal. He's also been the one credited for yelling "swing!" on the Piazza trade. Piggy's not a no-brainer but there is something to be said for essential Metsiness, especially in uniform. I honestly have no idea if bullpen coaches actually coach the bullpen or just answer the phone, tend the tomatoes and flick spit sunflower seeds off their personages, but Pignatano must've been considered somewhat essential to span Hodges, Berra, McMillan, Frazier and Torre. M. Donald Grant played a key role in the building of the foundation of the franchise. But any attempt to induct him into anything but the 41st level of hell will be strongly opposed by all who are sentient.

Edgy MD Aug 04 2005 01:09 PM

I think M. Donald gets in the year after Walter O'Malley makes the Brooklyn Dodger Hall of Fame.

MFS62 Aug 04 2005 01:12 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I think M. Donald gets in the year after Walter O'Malley makes the Brooklyn Dodger Hall of Fame. Edgy, I'm not sure if that was funny or true. Y'know what? Both. Later

Benjamin Grimm Aug 04 2005 01:14 PM

It's certainly true. The Mets don't have anyone in their history as evil as Walter O'Malley, but M. Donald Grant is probably as close as they get.

G-Fafif Aug 04 2005 01:26 PM

Ten Who Get Inducted Into the Mets HOF Ahead of M. Donald Grant: 1) Roger Clemens 2) John Rocker 3) Chipper Jones 4) Mike Scioscia 5) Terry Pendleton 6) Luis Sojo 7) Luis Aguayo 8) Pete Rose 9) Leo Durocher 10) Genghis Khan

MFS62 Aug 04 2005 01:31 PM

Let's keep it to baseball. You can dump Ghengis (although I appreciate your senses of History and creativity) and add (and it pains me to type these words) Mel Rojas. Later

seawolf17 Aug 04 2005 01:31 PM

Benjamin Grimm Aug 04 2005 01:42 PM

How about opposing players who've done good deeds for the Mets? Like Bill Buckner. And, in the wild pitch category, Bob Stanley and Brad Clontz.

G-Fafif Aug 04 2005 01:48 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: How about opposing players who've done good deeds for the Mets? Like Bill Buckner. And, in the wild pitch category, Bob Stanley and Brad Clontz. Maybe Clontz would show. He was one of us.

Valadius Aug 04 2005 05:59 PM

Does it have to be one a year? I think it's counter-intuitive- it creates way too big a backlog.

Edgy MD Aug 04 2005 06:26 PM

It doesn't have to be any pace at all. It's been 21 in 25 years, but it was 14 in the first ten years and only seven in the last 15. I think one per year is a nice pace and it keeps the meaning from getting watered down, and it also allows the day to become an expected and celebrated --- rather than ovelooked --- day in the annual schedule, perhaps keeping peeps dramatically anticipating this year's honoree, maybe waiting until a month before the game to announce the name. Of course, early on, they inducted peeps with a shared legacy together, and they still could do that --- Johnson and Cashen, Rose and Cohen when their time comes, Piggy and Walker --- but I still like the power of one guy (or gal, Ms. Payson) getting the year to himself. 1981 Joan Whitney Payson (executive) Casey Stengel (manager) 1982 Bud Harrelson Gil Hodges (manager) George Weiss (executive) 1983 Johnny Murphy (executive) William A. Shea (executive) 1984 Ralph Kiner (broadcaster) Bob Murphy (broadcaster) Lindsey Nelson (broadcaster) 1986 Rusty Staub 1988 Tom Seaver 1989 Jerry Koosman 1990 Ed Kranepool 1991 Cleon Jones 1992 Jerry Grote 1993 Tug McGraw 1996 Mookie Wilson 1997 Keith Hernandez 2001 Gary Carter 2002 Tommie Agee

dgwphotography Aug 04 2005 06:35 PM

MFS62 wrote: Let's keep it to baseball. You can dump Ghengis (although I appreciate your senses of History and creativity) and add (and it pains me to type these words) Mel Rojas. Later I think Richie Hebner would be a better fit on that list.

G-Fafif Aug 05 2005 01:57 PM

Iubitul wrote: I think Richie Hebner would be a better fit on that list. I don't understand. All the other people on that list were enemies of the Mets who did terrible things to the Mets whereas Richie Hebner played for the Mets in 1979 and...OH, I GET IT! Besides, I think the Yankees are planning a Ghengis Khan Day for 2006. You know how Steinbrenner loves "my warriors".

MFS62 Aug 05 2005 02:23 PM

G-Fafif wrote: Besides, I think the Yankees are planning a Ghengis Khan Day for 2006. You know how Steinbrenner loves "my warriors". I wonder what they're planning as a give-away on that day, a human ear? Later

Benjamin Grimm Aug 05 2005 02:29 PM

They already did that on Vincent Van Gogh Day.

Edgy MD Aug 05 2005 03:02 PM

So, Walker it should be then? Maybe Bill Webb should be on the list also...

G-Fafif Aug 05 2005 04:09 PM

Edgy DC wrote: So, Walker it should be then? Rube Walker played a great role in the implementation of the five-man rotation. Kaz Ishii pitches every fifth day because the Mets have a five-man rotation. Maybe Rube Walker's not such a hero after all.

Willets Point Aug 05 2005 04:54 PM

Elucidate for the young and the ignorant: What is Rube Walker's connection to the Mets?

Edgy MD Aug 05 2005 05:24 PM

Rube was one of Roy Campanella's backups with the 1950s Dodgers (and, in fact, his baseball card features prominently in the plot of the film Mask). When Gil Hodges took over as Met manager, he made Rube his pitching coach on his staff of almost all catchers. (Could you imagine how radio callers today would react if a manager named a former catcher as his pitching coach?) Rube lasted from 1968 to 1981 and mentored all the pitchers that came to the Mets during that period. He survived the tenures of Hodges, Berra, McMillan, and Frazier before getting fired along with Joe Torre. Torre despite inheriting the old coot, thought enough of him to re-hire him (and much of his Met staff) when he took over as Atlanta manager. When Jerry Koosman was inducted into the Mets Hall of Fame, Rube Walker was the non-family member he specifically requested be there.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 05 2005 05:30 PM

Rube was also behind the plate for Brooklyn when Ralph Branca pitched to Bobby Thomson in that famous 1951 playoff game.

Mets Guy in Mich. Aug 05 2005 08:46 PM Todd Hundley

Where's the love for Todd Hundley? This guy was our star, our All-Star, for a number of years, held the home run record and even set the single-season record for catchers while wearing the Mets uniform. He belongs!

cleonjones11 Aug 05 2005 09:14 PM Hall of Fame

How about Dave Mlicki for shutting out the Yankees.

Edgy MD Aug 05 2005 10:34 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 06 2005 07:07 AM

Where's the love for Todd Hundley? Currently on the borderline case list. And in Ms. Mets' heart. This guy was our star, our All-Star, for a number of years, held the home run record and even set the single-season record for catchers while wearing the Mets uniform. He belongs! Well, his two All-Star seasons were the only ones he qualified as a star. He holds the team homer record, but so did a lot of guys, though he set a nice record --- homers as a catcher, since broken ---- as a Met. All of which makes him a little bit more qualified than John Stearns, but then Stearnsie's coaching career adds to his legacy. The stadium won't burn if the Mets Hall of Fame were to include Todd Hundley, but, really, aren't there a dozen guys higher up on just about anybody's list? Let's be deliberate here (says the guy looking twenty years into the future).

Willets Point Aug 06 2005 12:32 AM

I got my Rubes confused. I was thinking of the Hall of Fame pitcher from the early 1900's who is of course Rube Waddell. I couldn't figure out his Mets connection since he died decades before the Mets came into existence. Thanks for clearing up my cobwebbed mind. Both Rubes are available for sponsorship at Baseball-Reference.com, by the way, Walker a bargain $10 and Waddell a mere $20 for a HOF-er!

Valadius Aug 06 2005 08:41 PM

There was also the great Rube Marquard.

SI Metman Aug 07 2005 12:47 AM

Hopefully we will be putting Reyes and Wright in there 25-30 years from now. Perhaps Pedro and Beltran too.

mlbaseballtalk Aug 08 2005 08:10 PM

Edgy DC wrote: It doesn't have to be any pace at all. 1986 Rusty Staub You forgot Buddy Harrelson! Also, wanted to say, the Mets can at some point, I don't know, spruce up the Closet (a friend of mine, who is a MFY fan, came up with that nickname due to the small size of it) they have in the Diamond Club Lobby? Not saying they need a full blown museum or something akin to Monument Park (save that all for Shea II) but put the names and a short bio of the HOFers up next to the blown up photos. Yeah a true Met fan knows who they are, but what about for a youngster or non-fan? Are they going to rely on whomever's with them? "Yeah, thats uh Ed Charles" (pointing at Tommie Agee) And maybe a nice plaque signifying all the major Met award winners through the years (BTW Al Leiter's Clemente Award is STILL hanging on the wall) and those enshrined in Cooperstown Steve

Edgy MD Aug 08 2005 08:32 PM

I forget my source (I think from the Mets' own site) but I got Bud Harrelson there in 1982. I'm pretty sure Rusty's induction day was his own. Those awful wigs stick out in my mind.

Johnny Dickshot Aug 08 2005 08:47 PM

Rube Walker is a great choice. When Hodges named him pitching coach (to raisaed eyebrows, even tho it wasn't unprecendented to name a catcher a PC) the Mets had had 7 pitching coaches in 7 years.

G-Fafif Aug 08 2005 11:44 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I forget my source (I think from the Mets' own site) but I got Bud Harrelson there in 1982. I'm pretty sure Rusty's induction day was his own. Those awful wigs stick out in my mind. Mets Media Guide confirms Rusty and Buddy went in together as the first players in 1986. The Mets had run out of no-brainer non-players and were waiting on Tom to retire (Seaver, not Gorman). Rusty Fright Wig today was a separate affair from HOF induction. Don't hold me to it but I think the HOF was tied into Old Timers Day that year. Rusty was broadcasting for the Mets so it wasn't hard to bring him back multiple times. Seaver was inducted the day they retired his number, I think. I don't remember a separate ceremony. Everybody since then has gotten one.

Edgy MD Aug 09 2005 05:53 AM

Well, I still didn't forget him, I just mislaid him. Stupid source.

G-Fafif Aug 09 2005 12:24 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I still didn't forget him, I just mislaid him. Buddy's small. Easy to mislay. If you'd lost track of Kingman or Straw -- or Eric Hillman -- that would be something else.