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"I Hate This Team"

Elster88 Aug 15 2007 11:55 AM

FWIW, to all the whiny haters out there. The Mets have the best record (win %) in the National League. Go ahead, I'm ready for the comebacks about how the league sucks. But can we get a little love for the 2007 edition?

metirish Aug 15 2007 12:06 PM

I hate reading about how the National League sucks and it's inferior to the American League,when it comes to the World Series it hardly matters and has more to do with what teams pitching is inferior . I have plenty of love for the 07 Mets.I don't think many here thought that the Braves and Phillies would be crap like they were last season,so things are tighter this year that's all,toughen the team up for the post-season.

TransMonk Aug 15 2007 12:21 PM

Agreed. It's hard for me to bitch excessively about a team that's been in first place all year. The Mets can't control how well the rest of the league plays. I DO think the 2007 squad has it's problems, but it has also had to deal with injuries as much as any team in baseball...not only injuries to starters, but also their immediate backups at the same time. The one thing I like most about the 2007 Mets has been watching some of the kids come into their own: Maine, Perez, Milledge, Gomez and Gotay have really impressed me.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2007 12:30 PM

The upside of injury.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2007 12:38 PM

Its gonna take a lotta love To change the way things are Its gonna take a lotta love Or we wont get too far

Centerfield Aug 15 2007 12:57 PM

I'm one of the biggest culprits here so I guess I should explain my frustration. 1. Off-Season: If the team falls just short of the World Series, you'd like to start the next year with a feeling of "Wow, we just got ____, if we had him last year we would have gone all the way. I can't wait for the season to begin!" That obviously didn't happen. I realize most of the big-ticket guys went for money that seemed out of control, but there were little moves I felt were bungled. Leftfield and second base, specifically. When Alou and Valentin were injured, there isn't anyone here who was surprised by that. 2. It doesn't feel like a first-place team: Part of that could be because it's been so long since they played like one. Two consecutive losing months followed by an August where they are 7-5. Not exactly awe-inspiring. 3. Not Clutch: Despite being a first place team that scores a good amount of runs (6th in the NL), they are below ML averages with RISP (.266), RISP w/ 2 outs (.230), and close and late (.240). These are the "make you want to rip your hair out" stats. I couldn't find it listed anywhere, but it seems like they're poor at delivering the runner from third base with less than 2 outs. Plus they went through that period of time where they didn't score any runs at all. There's nothing worse than seeing your starter give up 4 runs and knowing the game was out of reach. 4. Can't beat the fucking Braves. 5. Fun Factor: I don't know. Just doesn't seem to be there this year. Hurry back Pedro. 6. I really dislike the manager: Maybe not as much as Sal, but I don't agree with Willie Randolph on much. He makes questionable moves. I think he uses that "old school" logic to justify some bad decisions. I hate hate hate that he doesn't go out and argue with umps because I think it does make a difference on future calls. Of course, it is a first place team, and hate is an ugly emotion. Plus a buddy of mine who is a St. Louis fan said last year's team was one of the most frustrating teams he's ever rooted for so who knows. I do like that this team seems to be pretty dangerous in the 9th inning, and our closer has been stellar. We'll wait and see. If they win the WS this year I'll like them a whole lot more.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2007 01:09 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Aug 19 2007 09:41 PM

Leftfield wasn't bungled. Alou was absolutely a good move. Fraught with risk, but they all are. Maybe we needed a righthanded contingency plan, but come on. Tell me you saw Alou going down and I'll tip my hat and say that you're right. Tell me you saw Alou, Milledge, Johnson, and Gomez all going down (OE: not to mention the lefthanded Chavez) and I'd say yer lying to me, Partner. And yet we weathered all that, remained in first place, and now have Milledge and Alou hitting evey day. And our secondbasemen, despite the injury to Valentin, are seventh out of 16 NL teams in OPS. Bad plans put you in position when everything goes right. Good ones put you in position when everything goes wrong.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2007 01:10 PM

The 2006 team was, no question, more fun to watch. But the 2007 team does have a chance still to win that World Championship that eluded 2006 and if it does, the team we're having trouble loving will get its place in our hearts and our history.

Willets Point Aug 15 2007 01:12 PM

I'm just waiting and waiting and waiting for them to get hot. It should be possible. Beltran-Delgado-Wright-Reyes are as good a core of the offense as you could hope for. Maine, Perez, Glavine & Hernandez have all shown that they're pretty damn good pitchers, some of the time. The bullpen can be very good and very not good. History shows that being dominant throughout the season isn't necessary for a world series championship. The 2003 Marlins were one of the worst teams in baseball for the first two months. The 2004 Red Sox were as sluggish as the 2007 Mets until mid-August. The 2005 Astros were crap and AstroAnnie gave up on them and then they turned around and won the pennant. The 2006 Cardinals were a crap team in a crap division with a crap record and they beat the crap out of the Mets and Tigers. So I still think the Mets can win it all now. They're positioned well being in first place and all. They just need to get hot and stay hot through the postseason. Please?

RealityChuck Aug 15 2007 01:24 PM

The frustration is that they seem to be underachieving. Yes, I know their record is good, but they've been coasting on the first two months; since then, they have been mediocre. The injuries are certainly a factor, and hopefully, they'll start driving in runs at a normal level. I'm seeing some improvement lately: they have been coming back when they fall behind early, something they haven't done in awhile. They would have lost the last two games if they had been playing the way they did in June and July: the team would fall a run or two behind and then just coast. Getting back Alou is big. Giving Milledge more playing time seems an easy choice. And Delgado seems to be hitting much better lately. I also think the fun will return with Endy.

Johnny Dickshot Aug 15 2007 01:25 PM

This team is the continuation of the the group that disappointed for the final month/playoffs of a year ago. I mean, anything can happen, but it's bleh.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2007 01:38 PM

If you don't believe in Alou, believe in Milledge.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2007 02:03 PM

I can be content going into the postseason with an outfield of Beltran, Alou, Milledge, Green and Chavez. And that outfield might be good enough to get us to October. It could be better, but it could also be a lot worse. I think the Mets have the players. They just need to play like they're capable. If a bunch of Mets can get hot, they can go far. If they all just muddle around, the postseason is in jeopardy.

attgig Aug 15 2007 02:04 PM

yeah. it's all about the underperforming that leaves many fans frustrated. delgado is a shell of his former self. wright, for all his talk, does nothing against atlanta, beltran always battling some injury, alou...well, is alou. i honestly think reyes is the only guy performing at the level they're capable of (or at least remotely close) offensively. what keeps me going is the hope that those 5 will all click together. i remember watching baseball tonight back in may, when we had a sizable lead. they put up a stat saying if the mets go .500 the rest of the way, we'll have 95+ wins (can't remember exactly the number). at that point, I thought to myself there's no way mets don't go at LEAST 500.... how disappointing this summer has been.

Frayed Knot Aug 15 2007 02:06 PM

I haven't been one of those bringing the hate, but I see the attitude difference as mainly one of expectations: * Only 5 games worse than last year to the same point, but it feels like more to many since 90 wins (approx pace) is no longer considered an improvement or satisfactory. * Even Reyes & Wright are taking heat even though both are on par to similar statistical years as last year (Reyes's power is down somewhat). Again, now it's expected so you need to do even better to impress us now! * None of the newbies have endeared themselves. Not Schoeneweis, not Alou, nor late-'06 pick-ups/holdovers like Green & Mota. Meanwhile high-priced holdovers Delgado & Beltran are frustrating fans with declines and/or injuries. btw, the NL is LESS down this year compared to 2006. The IL play still favored the AL this season but wasn't nearly as lopsided as last.

Johnny Dickshot Aug 15 2007 02:07 PM

Reyes has played like crap since May. If not crap, then, comparative crap.

Johnny Dickshot Aug 15 2007 02:13 PM

Mike Pelfrey: Big disappointment. To me there's just a feeeeeeeeeling that they just aren't getting certain things done that a championship-level club should: Getting in guys from 3rd with fewer than 2 outs... I mean, they suck at this. I know it's to a large degree a luck thing, but jeez. It's almost like you gotta work hard to have as little luck as they've had, seems like. They've let big leads get away, been blown out an awful lot, and rarely out-crisp an opponent the way seemed to last year. That's not to say they won't have a a month or more of that in 'em still. I hope they do.

metirish Aug 15 2007 02:26 PM

In my ten+ years of watching the Mets it seems to me that they have always sucked with getting men home from 3rd with less that two outs,and they probably have. Delgado has been terrible,probably had one good week,Beltran is not what I expected really and all my silly talk of Reyes as a possible MVP was just that,silly. Wagner has been the team MVP for moi.

Benjamin Grimm Aug 15 2007 02:34 PM

Delgado has been better than you're giving him credit for. Not as good as last year, but he's been getting it done over the past few months. He's been much more than "one good week." His horrible start has left a bad taste in our mouths, but he's been a contributor. (And I bet you'd be very surprised at where he ranks in total Schaefer points for 2007.)

Nymr83 Aug 15 2007 02:39 PM

Delgado has a 103 OPS+. thats pretty much terrible coming from him or any other slow-footed first baseman.

metirish Aug 15 2007 02:39 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"]Delgado has been better than you're giving him credit for. Not as good as last year, but he's been getting it done over the past few months. He's been much more than "one good week." His horrible start has left a bad taste in our mouths, but he's been a contributor. (And I bet you'd be very surprised at where he ranks in total Schaefer points for 2007.) Your right Yancy,but for the life of me I am struggling to remember a signature Delgado moment this season......I suck though.

Vic Sage Aug 15 2007 02:58 PM

CF is, as almost always, except for the whole Rudolph lawsuit business, correct. Mostly, though, I blame the Carloses. Delgado's OPS+ went from 134 last season (which was already down from his career numbers) to 103 so far this season. Whether he's accomplished this mediocre performance in a week or 2 months is immaterial. This is his production to date. Beltran's drop has been even more precipitous, going from 153 to 119. While you can write the difference off to injury, his seeming inability to stay healthy (or at least to play through pain) is part of the problem with him. These 2 guys, batting mostly 3rd & 4th in WWSB's lineup, have hurt our run production more than any other factor. Reyes (121) and Wright (143) are performing at a pace ahead of their breakthrough seasons of last year, so they should not be bearing any blame here. Alou hits like he's supposed to when he plays. Unfortunately, his backups didn't produce and then they got hurt too. This paved the way for Milledge, who's finally producing as we'd hoped. I don't blame green for sucking. I blame Willie for playing him, when he clearly demonstrated over the last few seasons that he's in a steady decline. He's finally giving some of Greenie's ABs to Milledge, now that Alou is back, and Milledge has continued to produce. LoDuca has sucked, but he has always sucked, so thats no surprise (though even he has shown a dropoff from his mediocre 105 to this year's disastrous 78). Castro was better, but he's hurt too. Now we're down to DiFelice. Which does not bode well. Despite Valentin's injury, we've gotten decent production from 2b, between Gotay, Easley and now Castillo. I don't think we can be too unhappy at how that has worked out. The team ERA is amongst the best in the NL, but Maine and Perez have become extremely inconsistent, Glavine is near the end of the line, and Hernandez is due for another vacation any day now. Sosa started off hot, but then returned to his own level, and Pelfrey was a catastrophe. Now, we're stuck with Lawrence until Pedro comes back (if ever). Wagner has done the job all year, and Heilman has been better the last month or so. Joe Smith started hot then remembered he was just out of A-Ball. Mota and Schoeweise have been awful. Feliciano's been good, but overused. Sosa has been more effective than Sele and Mota as a long/middle-inning guy. All in all, the pitching has been comparatively solid but unspectacular. I don't know who the stopper would be in a 7-game series, and i don't like our chances in a slugfest. So i'm not terribly optimistic about the post-season this year, even if we get there.

G-Fafif Aug 15 2007 03:07 PM

metirish wrote: I am struggling to remember a signature Delgado moment this season... Delgado collected the walkoff RBI three times in May: with a bases-loaded walk against the Cubs, a single against the Cubs and a bomb off of Benitez and the Giants. Yet he slacked back into slumping not long after. That's been the story of these Mets. They've given us (me for sure) some of the most transcendent moments I'll ever have as a fan (the drag bunt, the five-run ninth, the 17 innings, Chip Ambres). But then they don't come anywhere near matching them. If you can do it on a Tuesday, why do you look so lethargic on Wednesday? How can you not be ten games up when you're so clearly capable of it (based on those transcendent moments)? How can you not have the best record in New York (it's not your goal, but it's kind of ours)? Why do seven of every nine innings you bat seem to go 1-2-3? None of these questions square perfectly with logic or even airtight evidence, but they're out there in the Metsosphere. We ask 'em. We're fans. We reserve the right to derive satisfaction from going 67-95 and frustration from being 66-52.

Edgy DC Aug 15 2007 05:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Aug 19 2007 09:44 PM

Most of Vic's post I agree with. These are what I don't. ]I don't blame green for sucking. I blame Willie for playing him, when he clearly demonstrated over the last few seasons that he's in a steady decline. Over who? Newhan? You know what the options were. ]He's finally giving some of Greenie's ABs to Milledge, now that Alou is back, and Milledge has continued to produce. It's injury that has claimed Milledge's opportunities. Though you're perfectly free to argue that he should have been installed as the starter from day one, and, if that injury occurred, at least it would have occurred at the big-league level. ]LoDuca has sucked, but he has always sucked, so thats no surprise (though even he has shown a dropoff from his mediocre 105 to this year's disastrous 78). A 105 OPS+ is just fine for a catcher. I'd sorely like some of that 105 about now.

G-Fafif Aug 15 2007 10:35 PM

I miss the days when a thread title like this one automatically referred to the Braves.

Elster88 Aug 19 2007 07:01 PM

G-Fafif wrote: I miss the days when a thread title like this one automatically referred to the Braves. Why?

Valadius Aug 19 2007 07:04 PM

Well Beltran's been earning his keep recently.

DocTee Aug 19 2007 07:28 PM

He's overpaid and brittle and so is alou. We should release them both (Sorry, i was channelling cleon)

G-Fafif Aug 20 2007 12:29 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="G-Fafif"]I miss the days when a thread title like this one automatically referred to the Braves. Why? As a Mets fan, I'd rather not explore reasons as to why I would find my own team somewhat distasteful. Not that those aren't valid feelings.

Willets Point Aug 20 2007 06:12 PM

Willets Point wrote: So I still think the Mets can win it all now. They're positioned well being in first place and all. They just need to get hot and stay hot through the postseason. Please? I was down east all weekend so I haven't been following the Mets. Looks like they had a good weekend in Washington and Beltran is player of the week. Are they getting hot or were they frustrating wins?

Johnny Dickshot Aug 20 2007 06:30 PM

Good wins. Saturday's game was one of those hang-tough ones that a crappier Met squad (say, like the 2007 Mets we know & love) might have blown. Yesterday we turned a squeaker into a rout by pounding on their pen: That we had the dominant force was resounding after that.

Edgy DC Aug 22 2007 12:15 PM

Vic Sage wrote: Delgado's OPS+ went from 134 last season (which was already down from his career numbers) to 103 so far this season. Whether he's accomplished this mediocre performance in a week or 2 months is immaterial. This is his production to date. Beltran's drop has been even more precipitous, going from 153 to 119. While you can write the difference off to injury, his seeming inability to stay healthy (or at least to play through pain) is part of the problem with him. Beltran up to 129 (his highest in his career before last year had been 136. Delgado at 102.

smg58 Aug 22 2007 01:41 PM

Delgado and Beltran have been the biggest difference from last year, but Beltran at least seems to be picking things up. I thought Wright got over-hyped last year, but after a homerless April he's quietly been outstanding since. I hope Smith comes up and replaces Mota soon. But didn't everybody here figure going in that they were still likely to win although it would be much more of a struggle?

Elster88 Aug 22 2007 03:19 PM

Homers aren't the end all and be all of course. If I used the cliche right.