Master Index of Archived Threads


No Doubles Defense

Do You Like The No Doubles Defense?

Yes	3 votes
No	5 votes

Elster88 Aug 30 2007 03:02 PM

Never liked it. Never will.

holychicken Aug 30 2007 03:24 PM

Maybe this is 20/20 hindsight talking, but I don't like it there. Just getting the first out is very important. However, I can see why in some situations it would make sense.

TransMonk Aug 30 2007 03:26 PM

It has it's applications but seems to be overused.

vtmet Aug 30 2007 09:38 PM

The No doubles defense is akin to the NFL "prevent" defense against guys like Montana, Elway and Marino...those 3 might have been held in check for 3 quarters, but as soon as they saw the "prevent" defense, they're eyes and arms lit up...

metsmarathon Aug 31 2007 07:25 AM

oh good, i'm not the only guy. i was literally yelling at my radio yesterday to move the fucking outfielders in. i don't usually yell at my radio. i hate the fucking prevent defense in baseball.

Edgy DC Aug 31 2007 07:32 AM

Do you like the corner infielders positioned on the line? Problem with indicting it is that we can't appreciate what it takes away as much as what it yields. One problem with using it as a rule in certain situations is that, with fast batters, a single is as good as a double.

metsmarathon Aug 31 2007 09:08 AM

yes i do like guard the lines better. i'm a believer in what al leiter typically would say, i believe. everything in front of the outfielder is his. if it goes over his head, its on the pitcher. in a big game, i'm more worried about teh dinks killing us that the rockets.

metsmarathon Aug 31 2007 09:22 AM

also, wagner has allowed 41 hits total. only 8 were doubles or triples, and 5 were home runs. the average mlb pitching staff allows a double or triple every 4th hit that isnt a home run. for his career, billy gives up doubles and triples once per 5.4 hits that aren't home runs, and while this season its up to once every 4.5 hits, its still less frequent than the typical pitcher. no doubles is a less good option when billy wagner is your pitcher than with a typical pitcher. of total hits including home runs, the numbers are as follows: billy this year: 47 / 8 = double or triple per 5.875 hits (5 homers) billy's career: 515 / 82 = double or triple per 6.28 hits (71 homers) mlb average pitching staff this year: 1228 / 277 = double or triple per 4.43 hits (134 homers)

Edgy DC Aug 31 2007 09:29 AM

Part of Wagner's stingininess on extra-base hits may be attributed to him pitching regularly in the no-doubles-defense situations. I'm not sure. I just hired a security guard for my dinner program. My board worries that I'm blowing good money. If they come by for a visit, it'll look like a waste of money, because the clients will be behaving, because a security guard is there. You can easily measure what you allow, but you can't always measure what you prevent. The issue Leiter's not dealing with in the ND defense is not the ball in front of the outfielder falling for a hit vs. the one over his head, but the single in the gap being cut off rather than splitting the defenders for a double. Shinjo cost the Mets a big game in Atlanta because Bobby Valentine --- who took the responsibliity of positioning the outfielders himself --- had been tossed, and Shinjo hadn't been in ND posture.

TransMonk Aug 31 2007 10:11 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Shinjo cost the Mets a big game in Atlanta because Bobby Valentine --- who took the responsibliity of positioning the outfielders himself --- had been tossed, and Shinjo hadn't been in ND posture. True story, I remember that game...yet I seem to remember everyone blaming Benitez. That game in 2001 was very similar to yesterday's game...however once Benitez allowed the double which brought ATL to within one run, Franco relieved the closer, loaded the bases and gave up the game winning grand slam.

Edgy DC Aug 31 2007 10:30 AM

Valentine took the blame himself, for allowing himself to get tossed, and not being there to position the defense. I'm pretty sure he got tossed arguing a safe/out call at third, stepping in to protect the runner, Tusyoshin Shinjo.