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Our baseball IQ ...

Frayed Knot Sep 15 2007 04:00 PM

... during Phillie games has been stunningly low. Those caught stealings in the 6th inning today were killers - I don't think I've ever seen an inning where the pitcher get out unscathed after walking the final 3 batters he faced - yet it was merely a symptom of how the last 6 games against them have gone. Other stuff: - Beltran taking a step back on balls hit in front of him then coming in on ones hit over his head - Inability to lay down bunts when asked or even when not (Willie said he took the bunt OFF in Friday's game w/Gomez up after strike 2 but Carlos bunted anyway into a force out). - Missing signs, missing cut-offs, stupid errors, bad decisions, etc. - Stupid steal attempts of 3rd w/2 outs and the middle of the order up - bad approaches in ABs (Willie was going to squeeze the other night if he got a count in his favor but Castillo was suddenly hacking at everything) - plus a bunch of other shit I can't even think of right now. Then there's just the inexplicable inability to hit their bullpen not to mention their bottom-scraping staff in general. We've scored 2 or 3 runs in every one of the last 7 games ... except for the time we scored 10 and gave up 11. Each of the last 6 have been 1 or 2 run games. And, yeah, there's been a bunch of bad luck too (swinging bunts, broken bat bloops) plus some of the worst umpiring I've seen in years ... but that stuff just adds to the misery and isn't the cause of it. In a way I'm not all that worried because these games have been so bizarre and so Murphy's Law-ish that it can't possibly continue like this (getting outscored just 26-19 while losing 6 straight - including 2 in extra innings) .... but GEEZ this is fucking frsutrating!!

metirish Sep 15 2007 06:30 PM

Really I wouldn't want to meet the Phills in the post-season.

Willets Point Sep 15 2007 06:44 PM

I do. Watch as the Phillies and the media build it up as death for the Mets. And then the Mets kick the Phillies ass from here to Timbuktu. All you nervous Nellies can quiver if you want but the Mets are still going to win the NL East and I think can take on any other team in the postseason. The only way they'll lose is if they screw up, and that can happen against any team.

Zvon Sep 15 2007 07:46 PM

metirish wrote: Really I wouldn't want to meet the Phills in the post-season. I actually do. Whats been happening here is a fluke, and probably just the Gods Of Baseball way of looking down at me and chuckling. Cause Im probably the only one really upset by these games. And not really upset, but bragging rights upset. How many more days do I have to hear it from the locals? Well,..I just respond "Hey, you, me and the Phils can get together and watch the playoffs in afew weeks." But truth is I'd rather see the Phils in a 7 game series than the Padres. Pad's have that pitching. Phils pitching sucks. This is just a flukey thing. Agreed though, F.K. , that many things could have,should have gone differently. But thats how things end up being flukes.

Zvon Sep 15 2007 07:52 PM

Its a personal thing between the Gods of Baseball and me, and i apologize to you all for that. But if it ends up that Wright is robbed of the MVP by a Phillie, which is a BIG possibility, then...then I'm gonna have to do something about this. Is there a church of baseball where I can pray? When was the last time we all thought we had a REAL good chance to see a Met get the MVP award, and who got it that year? What was the Mets records against the Phils that year? I have a Phanatic voodoo doll for the winner of the quiz.

metirish Sep 15 2007 08:04 PM

One or two games is a fluke,this is not.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2007 09:01 PM

I disagree. One or two games are one or two games. No outcome of one or two games --- 50% are sweeps, 50% splits --- are statistically far-fetched. It's only after six or seven that things become markedly unliikely.

metirish Sep 15 2007 09:23 PM

I just don't think what the Phils are doing to the Mets right now is a fluke,they are putting some beating on them lately.

Edgy DC Sep 15 2007 09:44 PM

Not at all. They lost the last two games 3-2 and 5-3 as both the Mets and umps played sloppy. The Mets have been outscored 35-21 overall through the six games, which should result in the Phils taking four of six. And a big chunk of that was in the first game. In the last five, they've been had 26-19, a differential which suggests that they should have walked away with two of those games. Which they didn't, and that sucks, but the Phils haven't beaten on anybody. Certainly not on Pedro Martinez today.

Rockin' Doc Sep 16 2007 06:31 AM

I agree with Irish that you may blame 1-2 games on luck or call them a fluke, but after 6-7 games you have to look beyond blammng the losses on bad luck from the "baseball Gods" and bad calls from the umps. The Phillies may have got a few breaks from questionable calls or a few cheap hits, but ultimately a good team needs to find a way to win against adverse circumstances. Against the Phillies, the Mets have repeatedly failed to make plays or get hits at crucial times. As I see it, in the last two series between the Mets and Phillies, the Phillies have outplayed the Mets in the late innings when the game is on the line. Yes, the majority of the games have been close, but the Mets have repeatedly made sloppy plays or dubious decisions that have led to their defeats. The Mets offense has repeatedly failed to expand upon early leads. The Mets bullpen has frequently failed to protect those leads in the late innings, while the Phillies bullpen seems to be a mystery the Mets hitters just can't solve. I truly believe that the Mets are the superior team, but they certainly haven't demonstrated that in recent head to head matchups with the Phillies.

Elster88 Sep 16 2007 08:16 AM

Rockin' Doc wrote: I agree with Irish that you may blame 1-2 games on luck or call them a fluke, but after 6-7 games you have to look beyond blammng the losses on bad luck from the "baseball Gods" and bad calls from the umps. The Phillies may have got a few breaks from questionable calls or a few cheap hits, but ultimately a good team needs to find a way to win against adverse circumstances. Against the Phillies, the Mets have repeatedly failed to make plays or get hits at crucial times. As I see it, in the last two series between the Mets and Phillies, the Phillies have outplayed the Mets in the late innings when the game is on the line. Yes, the majority of the games have been close, but the Mets have repeatedly made sloppy plays or dubious decisions that have led to their defeats. The Mets offense has repeatedly failed to expand upon early leads. The Mets bullpen has frequently failed to protect those leads in the late innings, while the Phillies bullpen seems to be a mystery the Mets hitters just can't solve. I truly believe that the Mets are the superior team, but they certainly haven't demonstrated that in recent head to head matchups with the Phillies. This was all true against the Braves too, and then we kicked the crap out of them for 6 out of 7. It's just the swings of baseball. I don't think we should read too much into seven games.

Zvon Sep 16 2007 10:49 AM

I've been watching the Phils all year guys. Unfortunately I know this team very well. This is the flukeyest fluke of them all. Okay, lets not even call it a fluke,....thats when Burrell catches a fly ball right to him. Lets call it a twist of fate. The Phils just don't have the pitching. They certainly have the hitting, we all know this. But seriously...who would you rather see in the playoffs? Phils or Pads. Don't phear the Phillies.

Edgy DC Sep 16 2007 11:59 AM

I'm not blaming anything on luck. The Phils have won and the Mets have lost. I'm saying that this hasn't happened in any manner that suggests the Phils have any advantage on the Mets going forward that most any other team wouldn't also have.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 16 2007 09:48 PM

No team is good enough to fuck up the way we have and win. Beyond all the bad luck. The Phillies are a good team. I find their relative lack of success against the rest of the league every bit as baffling as our results. They have 5 everyday players in their lineup with 20 or more HRs, with 4 of them developed in their own farm system, the 5th (Rowand) a shrewd trade pickup. Their bullpen might be dicey but they've got, I think, 4 guys with more than 100 career saves in there and none of them are the closer. They are very capable. They have Shane Victorino and Greg Dobbs on the bench. We cannot play like shit against a team that good and then ask why us? Why? We're not as good as them, that's why. That's not to say I covet them or think we can't beat 'em in a 7-gamne series. We can. But we can't screw up even a little.

Gwreck Sep 16 2007 10:31 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: The Phillies are a good team. I find their relative lack of success against the rest of the league every bit as baffling as our results. I'm not baffled. Philly starters: 55-48, 4.89 ERA, .283 BAA. Mets starters: 62-47, 4.15 ERA, .244 BAA.

Nymr83 Sep 16 2007 10:47 PM

]We cannot play like shit against a team that good and then ask why us? Why? We're not as good as them, that's why. the Mets have a better record and though we have scored 103 less runs than they have this year we've also allowed 115 less. and that was before we got Pedro back. The Mets are as good if not better than the Phillies.

Rockin' Doc Sep 17 2007 03:04 PM

The Phillies have a lethal offense, but their pitching is pretty suspect. I definitely believe that the Mets have the bettter team, but we have certainly not played like it against the Phillies. The Mets are the team that seems to find a way to lose the games when the two square off. I definitely don't fear the Phillies, but they aren't a push over either. I just don't feel much to be reassured about when the team is struggling to consistantly score runs, the bullpen is erratic, and the defense suddenly is fielding as if gloves were outlawed. I just want to see the team playing well and performing at least close to the capabilities going into the playoffs. Last year, St. Louis proved that the better team doesn't necessarily win in the postseason. It is the team that performs and executes that generally prevails.