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I've never known baseball

Edgy DC Sep 18 2007 09:13 AM

...without Bruce Froemming. Him retiring, to me, is like Wrigley Field retiring.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2007 10:44 AM

I don't want to say he's been around a while, but in Julio Franco's 6th MLB game Froemming was working behind the plate for [url=http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/bruuuuuce/]the 413th time![/url]

Valadius Sep 18 2007 11:01 AM

Bruce Froemming should go into the Hall of Fame, no? The Veterans' Committee has been awful at electing non-players (or anybody, for that matter).

Edgy DC Sep 18 2007 11:23 AM

Yes, he should. No, they haven't.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 18 2007 11:25 AM

How many non-players have been inducted in the last twenty years? I can't think of many. (Earl Weaver. Leo Durocher.) But then again, I haven't been devoting a whole lot of brain cells to remembering Hall of Fame inductees.

metirish Sep 18 2007 11:39 AM

I like him and certainly he'll be missed,Gary mentioned the other night that his name was pronounced Fremming when he first came into the league.

Valadius Sep 18 2007 11:44 AM

Looked it up. Besides the huge class of Negro Leagues inductees in 2006, they are: Al Barlick - Umpire, 1989 Bill Veeck - Executive, 1991 Bill McGowan - Umpire, 1992 Leo Durocher - Manager, 1994 William Hulbert - Executive, 1995 Ned Hanlon - Manager, 1996 Earl Weaver - Manager, 1996 Tommy Lasorda - Manager, 1997 Lee MacPhail - Executive, 1998 Nestor Chylak - Umpire, 1999 Frank Selee - Manager, 1999 Sparky Anderson - Manager, 2000 So excluding the Negro Leagues induction, which was outside the Veterans' Committee, it's been nobody in 7 years. That's pretty sad, considering that I don't think we've gotten everybody that should be in there yet.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 18 2007 11:49 AM

="metirish"]I like him and certainly he'll be missed,Gary mentioned the other night that his name was pronounced Fremming when he first came into the league. That's how I still pronounce it. How are the kids saying it these days? FRO-ming?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 18 2007 11:51 AM

Thanks for the list, Valadius. So, then, who are the recently retired managers, umpires, executives who should be considered? I agree that Froemming should go in. How about Tom Kelly?

Edgy DC Sep 18 2007 11:53 AM

It's not sad. Turning in a blank ballot comes at the expense of some hard work by mostly old people asked to do a hard task, upholding high standards in the face of tons of constiuencies with their own agenda.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2007 12:00 PM

They've recently re-jiggered the vets committee voting procedure so that the HoF players will now vote ONLY on players while the others: execs, umps, etc., will be dealt with by a special committee. The players had previously expressed a reluctance about judging anything other than players, something that came to light when many blank ballots were submitted even though Marvin Miller was eligible. So it's possible that some more non-playing types will be honored in the near future now that those near-automatic blanks won't factor in.

metirish Sep 18 2007 12:01 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"] ="metirish"]I like him and certainly he'll be missed,Gary mentioned the other night that his name was pronounced Fremming when he first came into the league. That's how I still pronounce it. How are the kids saying it these days? FRO-ming? Yes with a Fro.

Valadius Sep 18 2007 12:05 PM

They might not even be recently retired. There are plenty of people in the 19th century that have been overlooked. And what about more owners and executives? And there are still some managers that could go in that aren't recently retired, but retired for quite a while.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 18 2007 12:08 PM

There are a lot of people who COULD go in, but at some point you have to declare that the 19th Century has been covered, barring some new discoveries. I'm not prepared to say whether or not we've reached that point. I'm no expert on 19th Century baseball. (Though I'd like to be!) But you seem to be inclined to want a more crowded Hall, and I'm on the other side of the fence. I want to raise the bar as high as possible, despite the qualifications of whoever may have already made it in.

Edgy DC Sep 18 2007 12:38 PM

Valadius wrote: They might not even be recently retired. There are plenty of people in the 19th century that have been overlooked. And what about more owners and executives? And there are still some managers that could go in that aren't recently retired, but retired for quite a while. Who? Bid McPhee? Al Spalding? I think it's wrong to suggest that this era hasn't been covered. I think they should keep reviewing it unitl the end of time, but that doesn't meed that they somehow have failed by not adding new names. It's a closed era with a finite number of persons.

Valadius Sep 18 2007 12:57 PM

Well, players-wise I think the 19th century isn't fully covered. I dunno about managers/executives. But from a baseball executives/pioneers standpoint, let me throw out some names: William Shea Walter O'Malley Charles Ebbets Bing Devine Gussie Busch Charlie O. Finley Bob Howsam Joan Payson Marvin Miller

Benjamin Grimm Sep 18 2007 01:05 PM

I would venture to say that most of the 19th Century guys are dead at the present time.

Edgy DC Sep 18 2007 01:06 PM

So, among the plenty of people from the 19th century that have been overlooked, you decline to offer anybody?

Johnny Dickshot Sep 18 2007 01:08 PM

Valadius wrote: Well, players-wise I think the 19th century isn't fully covered. I dunno about managers/executives. But from a baseball executives/pioneers standpoint, let me throw out some names: William Shea --no. Walter O'Malley --influential, but very very hated Charles Ebbets --not very important; like bill shea Bing Devine --decent gm, but it would really open the floodgates Gussie Busch --asswipe Charlie O. Finley --clown Bob Howsam --no Joan Payson --no Marvin Miller --yes

DocTee Sep 18 2007 01:13 PM

I think Finley gets in. What about Steinbrenner?

Valadius Sep 18 2007 01:19 PM

Ebbets invented the rain check and was the first to propose a player draft that favored bad teams. So I think he merits some kind of consideration.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 18 2007 01:22 PM

DocTee wrote: I think Finley gets in. What about Steinbrenner? I'm afraid so. Ebbets invented the rain check? That's nice, but it gets zero Cooperstown points.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 18 2007 01:22 PM

Considered and rejected.

Frayed Knot Sep 18 2007 01:25 PM

Any consideration of Steinbrenner has to start with the fact that he was twice banned from the sport for actions that were both unethical and illegal.

metirish Sep 18 2007 01:37 PM

Not at all crazy about owners getting into the HoF especially for being the first to propose things like rain checks,how about the guy that proposed the first domed stadium,no need for rain checks then.

Edgy DC Sep 18 2007 01:41 PM

Oddly enough, proposed by Walter O'Malley --- to replace, oddly enough, Ebbets Field.

metirish Sep 18 2007 01:45 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Oddly enough, proposed by Walter O'Malley --- to replace, oddly enough, Ebbets Field. Ha ,didn't think of that when I was being a smart ass.

Zvon Sep 18 2007 05:07 PM

Froemming will be missed. Im watching a clip now from the 70's - he had some kool sideburns back then.

Zvon Sep 19 2007 05:51 PM

On ESPN now, for me here, a thing on Froemming. Says his first game called was in 1971 at Shea with Tom Seaver pitching. How bout that?