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Willie's Seat ... and How Hot it Might Be

Johnny Dickshot Sep 21 2007 08:00 AM

]Heat's on Willie But Wilpon 'disappointed' in team from 'top to bottom' By Jon Heyman, SI The Mets could be in the midst of a historic collapse, and manager Willie Randolph assumes the posture of a man without a care, infuriating radio call-in people, bloggers and fanatical e-mailers. But now the complaints about Randolph are said to be more pointed than that and coming from people a lot closer to the situation, folks inside his own organization, in fact, some of whom have the ear of general manager Omar Minaya, who for three years has been Randolph's staunchest in-house supporter. No matter how many times Randolph, who is easily one of baseball's most experienced pennant-race participants over the past 30 years, tells everyone that, "This isn't Armageddon,'' no one is listening. Folks look at Randolph's lifeless, tight team and see a stoic leader, and they blame him. But according to people familiar with internal discussions, it isn't just the fans this time who are wondering whether Randolph's message is being lost and his strategies are misfiring. The Mets' message du jour is, "We're all in this together,'' but the reality is that there are cracks beneath the veneer. And it's only natural that the front office that for two years has been taking bows for assembling what's generally viewed as the National League's most talented team is wondering whether Randolph is getting the most out of his players. Eight straight losses to second-place Philadelphia and two bad ones to the Nats before Wednesday night's win -- not to mention 10 errors in back-to-back losses -- have everyone in Flushing searching for answers. "I'm disappointed with the way the team is performing overall, and that's everyone, top to bottom,'' Mets COO Jeff Wilpon told SI.com before Wednesday's much-needed win expanded New York's NL East lead over Philadelphia to 2½ games. "I'm disappointed in Omar, Willie, the players ... that's everyone. We shouldn't be in this position. But we are. We've got to fight our way out and pull this out.'' Randolph's fate is said to be "up to Omar.'' And while there's no indication the manager's job is on the line, even if the freefall continues, say the unthinkable happens and the Mets miss the playoffs after leading their division since May 16. Randolph's status would take a clear hit. Minaya, who, let's not forget, has "full autonomy," is finally starting to hear some cries of bullpen mismanagement, and a couple holes are beginning to show in the relationship between the two great New York stories, the Brooklyn-bred manager and the Queens-raised GM. However, only one of them is facing the heat of this fire. Minaya was publicly deified for a string of superb transactions a year ago, and while last winter didn't measure up to the one before, the perception that this team's talent is too good to lose places the bull's-eye squarely on the manager. Everything was supposed to be going Randolph's way this year, too, with a rich two-year extension that'll pay him $2 million in 2008 and $2.5 million in '09 (heavy deterrents to a firing), and especially with Manny Acta -- who is personally closer to Minaya and other front-office members and who was perceived to be the heir apparent -- gone to Washington. But instead Acta's Gnats did a number on the Mets two straight nights, tightening New York's noose. The Mets' malaise started well before the All-Star break, and Randolph got hot when Minaya wrongly blamed hitting coach Rick Down (whom Minaya fired anyway). Things have not improved on the field since that misguided move; if anything, they've gotten worse. Meanwhile, Mets people adhere closely to their "all together'' mantra, refusing to open old wounds. Folks familiar with the team's internal discussions say the gripes about Randolph's strategies, particularly as they relate to the relief corps, have been going on behind closed doors since the early days of his three-year tenure. But until lately Minaya was having little of it. While it was the front office's call to give multi-year contracts to Scott Schoeneweis and the tainted Guillermo Mota, Randolph's over-reliance on Mota generally and Schoeneweis lately (the struggling lefty pitched in his fourth straight game Tuesday) has been questionable. While fans have accused Randolph of lacking passion, that's a bit unfair, as his department-store mannequin demeanor isn't appreciably different from the Yankees' iconic Joe Torre, who has also faced criticisms of bullpen mismanagement. Randolph has also been chided for going too easy on his players, though he correctly points out that he has engaged in many unreported one-on-one confabs. Club sources peg Randolph as generally a "non-confrontational'' type but insist that he can be tough on occasion, especially on prodigy Jose Reyes, who's talented, young and impressionable. One Mets person said Randolph recently berated Reyes for failing to hustle, an unreported confrontation that Reyes said he appreciated. "When he has something to say, he's going to say something to me,'' Reyes confirmed. "You appreciate it.'' The source also said Reyes shot back that Randolph shouldn't criticize only him. But Reyes insisted, "I don't worry about somebody else.'' They should all be worried now. What's hard not to notice is the surprising malaise that has infected this team for months. They are barely a .500 club since the end of May (one game over), a fact that isn't lost on a vigilant ownership that invested hard and wisely to turn the franchise around. If they blow it down the stretch, Randolph will still make it to 2008. But he'll make it with a noticeably shorter leash.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2007 08:12 AM

I don't think a team can be both lifeless and tight. Pick one, Jon. I'm looking at last night's comeback, followed by Wagner missing the bell and Wright's error, and I'm gueesing tight.

soupcan Sep 21 2007 08:13 AM

]"I'm disappointed with the way the team is performing overall, and that's everyone, top to bottom,'' Mets COO Jeff Wilpon told SI.com before Wednesday's much-needed win expanded New York's NL East lead over Philadelphia to 2½ games. "I'm disappointed in Omar, Willie, the players ... that's everyone. We shouldn't be in this position. But we are. We've got to fight our way out and pull this out.'' I agree with him, I'm disappointed too. What's the big deal about Jeffy saying it? I take it as just stating the obvious. (OE: Ahhhh, Joel Youngblood. MUCH better than Jeff Kent)

metirish Sep 21 2007 08:15 AM

If it's a big deal it might be because he is not heard from that much,I like that he said it and it should be an interesting winter if God forbid we don't make it to the play-offs and win.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2007 08:19 AM

My vote goes to tight as well. They're definitely not lifeless. Look at all the runs they've been scoring. But when they're in the field they look like they're playing as if they're afraid to lose. They need to shake that feeling. (I can understand how hard that must be. I can't shake that feeling either.)

HahnSolo Sep 21 2007 08:35 AM

Nice timing by Jeff for his first comments about the team in I don't know how long. Jeffy, go back to worrying about where the concessions will be at Citi Field, or dreaming up another way we can honor the Brooklyn Dodgers there.

soupcan Sep 21 2007 09:07 AM

HahnSolo wrote: Nice timing by Jeff for his first comments about the team in I don't know how long. Jeffy, go back to worrying about where the concessions will be at Citi Field, or dreaming up another way we can honor the Brooklyn Dodgers there. I'm not president of the Jeff Wilpon fan club or anything but who cares? What did he say that nobody already knew or felt? What does the timing have to do with it? They are suckier than sucking suck right now and everybody knows it.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2007 09:19 AM

Yeah, I don't care what Jeff says or doesn't say. He's certainly entitled to his opinion. I just don't like hearing Steinbrenner-esque bluster coming from the Mets front office.

Edgy DC Sep 21 2007 09:20 AM

You know, it strikes me that cleonjones21's time out expired about 10 days ago, and he should have posting priveleges now.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 21 2007 09:29 AM

He left with a big f-you. He may not care to come back.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 29 2007 09:25 AM

Well, we've learned that in addition to knowing how to win, Willie Randolph also knows how to lose. Now, the Mets may yet make the playoffs and win the 2007 World Series. But in the more likely event that they all go home after tomorrow's game, my vote is this: Fire Willie. It's not really even about punishment or blame. I just think that, with this collapse on his permanent record, he's not the guy to run the team in 2008. His "quiet confidence" isn't going to carry any weight next spring in Port St. Lucie or when the season opens. The Mets will need to wash the stink off them, and getting rid of Willie Randolph would be a key first step. It's not like they'd be losing anyone special. At best he was a halfway decent manager. Getting a replacement of his caliber (or, ideally, better) shouldn't be that hard. I'd love to see the Mets with a smart manager. A legitimately bright guy. I think they've only had two such managers: Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine. I'd be glad to see either of those guys come back.

Nymr83 Sep 29 2007 09:37 AM

we want Bobby V!

metirish Sep 29 2007 09:50 AM

Agree with what Yancy said and I echo Nymr, I've read that Tony Bernazard is no fan of Willie, here is that article. http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spken0929,0,1931195.column

metsguyinmichigan Sep 29 2007 10:05 AM

I'm not yet calling for Willie to get dumped. Bu I've always thought firing Valentine was a big mistake. He knew how to get guys fired up, and knew how to deflect the attention when it was going poorly. Seems like he got dumped because he couldn't get along with Phillips, which, granted, is part of his job. Wonder how he and Omar get along.

Nymr83 Sep 29 2007 10:28 AM

Willie "arguing" with the umpires Bobby V arguing with the umpires

metsmarathon Sep 29 2007 10:32 AM

i'm not ready to say that willie should be fired. i am, however, ready to say that willie needs to spend his entire offseason thinking about how and when to use relievers, and how and when to pull long relievers out of games in favor of pinch hitters after 0.1 innings of work. its not inconceivable that his (mis)management of the bullpen led to its ultimate collapse, but its more likely that the bullpen collapsed of its own accord, gathering a precipitous momentum that dragged along with it all other phases of the game. for that, i can blame minaya (lack of bp depth) and peterson (its his job, natch) more than willie. and both of them have had too much other successes for this failure to wipe away. their work brought the club to the point where the collapse of the bullpen is as calamitous as it is.

OlerudOwned Sep 29 2007 01:10 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I'd love to see the Mets with a smart manager. A legitimately bright guy. I think they've only had two such managers: Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine. I'd be glad to see either of those guys come back. http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/02/hire-manny-acta.html We had one.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2007 03:05 PM

Okay, now that the collapse is official, so is my position: I want Willie Randoph fired before the week is out.

Nymr83 Sep 30 2007 03:07 PM

fire willie NOW, fire Rickey too. in fact, flush out the entire coaching staff immediately.

bmfc1 Sep 30 2007 03:09 PM

The stench of '07 will linger with Willie into '08. It will have a negative effect on the team and weigh it down. I hate to say it but I concur. He should be fired... but it won't happen. The Wilpon's don't want to appear Steinbrenneresq.

TransMonk Sep 30 2007 03:09 PM

I would be pretty shocked if Willie were fired. But I certainly wouldn't disagree with the decision. It all depends on who would replace him.

bmfc1 Sep 30 2007 03:11 PM

Girardi. Oberkfell. When ST opens, if Willie is there, we will think of '07 and so will the team. Time for a change.

Zvon Sep 30 2007 03:11 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: Okay, now that the collapse is official, so is my position: I want Willie Randoph fired before the week is out. If Bobby V could walk right into that office before its even in print, I will agree. Someones head is gonna roll. I keep thinking it's gonna be Peterson, though that might not be the correct or proper move. I just think our pitching was such a failure, and you can hang that on Omar to an extent, but I don't see him going anywhere. Nor would I want to see him go anywhere. I did see,....or I should say I didn't see alot of things that I wish I did see, when it came to looking at what Willie did in certain situations this season. (okay, I think I've hedged all bets sufficiently there ^)

Edgy DC Sep 30 2007 03:27 PM

I just want them to start with what they want and believe in, not what they don't want. I know I want more than "I've been a winner all my life."

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2007 03:28 PM

Especially now that that's no longer true. (Assuming it ever was.)

soupcan Sep 30 2007 03:30 PM

I don't think Willie's to blame here and shouldn't be canned. It was the pitching, plain and simple. He could only pitch who he had. Omar supplied 'em and Petersen coached 'em. Since Petersen was not a choice of Willie's why should Willie be fired? Omar and Peterson are the architects of this collapse and since Omar isn't going anywhere Peterson is the one that should be shit-canned. Nevertheless, if Bobby V. is available I'd love to have him back.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2007 03:35 PM

I don't blame Willie either. As I said in my post on Page 1 of the thread, it's not about blame it's about going forward. If he's still in the dugout next spring the stink of this season will be all over him. The players need someone who'll bring a new attitude, who can prevent this thing from carrying over. I don't think Willie can do that. And that's why I want him to go. It's about 2008, not about 2007.

OlerudOwned Sep 30 2007 03:37 PM

Manager Keith Hernandez and pitching coach Ron Darling. (Not really)

Zvon Sep 30 2007 03:49 PM

Darling should be in baseball to more of a degree than just broadcasting. He's knowledgable. Hernandez? Not so much. How about we do what seems to be the way things are handled these days by parents. Okay, make believe Reyes is our kid. Find out who it is that Reyes has a problem with and kick him out the door. Reyes obviously has a problem with someone on that team. I say he should grow the fuck up, but if I said that to my kid these days I might actually find myself defending that statement in a court of law.

metirish Sep 30 2007 03:54 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I just want them to start with what they want and believe in, not what they don't want. I know I want more than "I've been a winner all my life." Yeah I don't want to hear that tripe anymore. I would have no problem with the Wilpons cleaning house, if they keep Minaya(which they will I assume) does he still have full autonomy , should be a very interesting winter.

seawolf17 Sep 30 2007 03:56 PM

Seeya, Willie. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. And yes, you can take Peterson and Rickey and Jerry Manuel and Sandy Alomar with you. I don't see any way this staff comes back next year. And I might be done with Minaya too.

DocTee Sep 30 2007 03:59 PM

what seawolf said

Iubitul Sep 30 2007 04:00 PM

I'm ready for Bobby V II. (but then again. I was when they hired Willie, instead)

Zvon Sep 30 2007 04:06 PM

Imo, Minaya stays and the less I see the Wilpon name in print, the better. Lately Wilpon seems to be talking more and more like Stienbrenner. Maybe he saw that Bronx Is Burning mini series (excellent, btw) and he thinks thats the way an owner should act. By gettin in his teams pots and pans.

Iubitul Sep 30 2007 04:08 PM

Zvon wrote: Imo, Minaya stays and the less I see the Wilpon name in print, the better. I definitely agree with this...

Zvon Sep 30 2007 04:30 PM

What say we blame this all on Matt Murphy. I just read he's more than willing to take the blame. He says when he caught the Bond's ball on Aug 7th the Mets began their decent. I say we round him up and brand an asterisk onto his cranium. Who's with me?

Valadius Sep 30 2007 04:35 PM

When I throw out the first pitch next year, I'll have some time to let Willie know how I feel about all this. Any suggestions on what I should tell him?

Zvon Sep 30 2007 04:53 PM

Valadius wrote: When I throw out the first pitch next year, I'll have some time to let Willie know how I feel about all this. Any suggestions on what I should tell him? Hit him in the skull with the ball and see if it fire's him up. Ya know,..todays game could have been easily managed from the clubhouse with a TV. After that crazy 1st at bat of the game by Ramirez, I would have lept out there and made sure I was tossed. I would not have left until I was thrown out of the game and the crowd was on their feet jumping and screaming and every Met player was united at my dugouts steps and on the field, watching me go off like a roman freakin candle. I would have made sure I somehow got dirt on the bill of West's cap. I think I can kick dirt that high. I don't know if Bobby V would have done that so early in the game, but he would have done something similar at some point, if he saw an excuse to. I think that was the only excuse we were afforded today. Willie has to realize,....sometimes a managers uniform has to get dirtied too. He is one of the Mets. He is a part of that team, not above them.

metirish Sep 30 2007 07:05 PM

] "I am happy with Willie Randolph," Minaya said just outside Randolph's office after the Mets' 8-1 loss to the Marlins. "When you ask those questions at the end of the year, I owe it to sit down with my ownership and tell them what I think. "But I'm telling you that I'm happy with the work that Willie Randolph has done for the past three years ... I always feel like I owe it to my ownership to sit down and talk to them about everybody Willie... ] Randolph, who guaranteed "we're gonna win this thing" on Friday, said he is not worried about his job status. "No, not at all," he said. "I'm here to win. That's what it's all about for me. I'm not here trying to impress anyone. Money is not an issue for me. I'm here to win and teach these guys how to play winning baseball. When I don't do that, obviously they're going to get rid of me or whatever. I don't have any qualms, any problems, any worries about stuff like that. I grew up in this town. I know how things work." "I'm the manager of the team," he said. "I'm a big boy. I can take that. I take all the full responsibility."

Frayed Knot Sep 30 2007 07:48 PM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I don't blame Willie either ... it's not about blame it's about going forward. If he's still in the dugout next spring the stink of this season will be all over him. The players need someone who'll bring a new attitude, who can prevent this thing from carrying over. I don't think Willie can do that. And that's why I want him to go. It's about 2008, not about 2007. My only problem with that line of reasoning IMO is that you're doing it to send a message to the players who under-achieved and/or had bad attitudes but the message it sends is that someone else will take the fall for them. And on a more general level, it creates an aura of a front office that (once again) doesn't know what it wants: Howe was their guy ... but was dumped less than half way through the 4-year deal. Then the big change was made by "Mr. Full Autonomy" to Willie, and after a year of solid progress, followed by one of almost total success, followed by one that was good most of the way through ... only to be blown up over a few weeks of failure and less than a year after an extension. Yeah, saving face is, by itself, a lousy reason for staying the course, but in their position I'd want something a little more concrete than just; 'we need a change so we're not reminded of the collapse'. Maybe there is something more behind the scenes (Tony Bernazard apparently thinks so) but otherwise it seems more like change for change sake. Not that I'm particularly attached to Willie, I just prefer not to make rash decisions on what seems like a short-term problem. Ah, maybe we just need to put a little more space behind this season.

Valadius Sep 30 2007 08:02 PM

Right now, it looks like they'll fire Alomar and Manuel.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 30 2007 08:11 PM

No way Minaya goes. Many of his moves were magical and the team has won every year he's been here. A collapse is horrible, but, damn, they almost won. Willie's got two years at $2 million each, so I don't think he goes either.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 08:16 PM

Valadius wrote: Right now, it looks like they'll fire Alomar and Manuel. What do you base this on?

SteveJRogers Sep 30 2007 08:21 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Valadius"]Right now, it looks like they'll fire Alomar and Manuel. What do you base this on? Yeah I know I'm speaking for Val here, but probably the "standard" practice of firing coaches rather than the manager for no reason, other than the sake of firing someone.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 08:22 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Sep 30 2007 08:41 PM

avi

Edgy DC Sep 30 2007 08:29 PM

I don't think firing the bench and third-base coaches is any more standard than firing the manager, quotes or not.

Nymr83 Sep 30 2007 10:12 PM

whatr did Alomar do wrong? you can at least fire willie and say the collapse ultimately falls on the manager or you can fire Rickey because of the supposed negative influence on Reyes, or you can pick Peterson because the pitching collapsed.... but what can Alomar be blamed for?

Gwreck Sep 30 2007 10:31 PM

Nymr83 wrote: but what can Alomar be blamed for? He did a pretty awful job as a third base coach. See the "out at home" thread. Fireable offense? Hard to say.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 10:32 PM

My anecdotal evidence supports a grade of "exemplary" for Sandy as third-base coach.

Vic Sage Oct 01 2007 08:43 AM

Phuck Wee Willie phucking Randolph.

metirish Oct 02 2007 08:31 AM

I think Frank Robinson would be a good fit for this team, he would certainly hold players accountable for their actions, maybe a bit old though and probably wouldn't fancy replacing a friend.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 02 2007 08:50 AM

We don't need Frank Robinson. The snooze today made much of what they saw as tepid support from Omar. Basically he appears to have given yet another interview in which he had nothing to say, leaving his words wide open to interpretation. Meanwhile Jeffy was eating a bowl of cereal and dictating a Steinbrenneresque statement of official "bitter disappointment."

Benjamin Grimm Oct 02 2007 08:58 AM

Sounds like Omar's saying he's going to recommend that they keep Willie, but that the Wilpons might overrule him. If that's true, then I hope they do.

metirish Oct 02 2007 09:03 AM

Omar gave a 40 minute press conference and was asked several times if he would guarantee Willie was going to be coach next season and he kept side-stepping it, he did say he has full autonomy but felt he owed it to Wilpon to sit down with him, it was a classic Minaya interview.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 02 2007 09:21 AM

know what i'm sayin

Valadius Oct 02 2007 11:02 AM

Scuttlebutt is that Willie's staying: [url]http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnPhFZM4X2dF9J0Fdj1cNNPavrYF?slug=txmetsrandolph&prov=st&type=lgns[/url]

Frayed Knot Oct 02 2007 01:29 PM

They all had a big pow-wow today followed by a press gathering and anyone who wants Willie gone ... is going to have to wait a while because it's not going to be this winter. The "vacilating" Omar did - if you want to call it that - sounds like it was him first expressing his choice to have Willie back, and then backtracking a bit when he realized that maybe those things are better left unsaid until you're sure all the big boys are on board with that.

Valadius Oct 02 2007 04:07 PM

I'm glad he's staying. I think we can give him another chance considering 2006. We just need some new coaches around him.

Rockin' Doc Oct 02 2007 06:09 PM

Personally, I'm not real big on Ricky as a base coach. I'd give HoJo the first base job and look at getting a new hitting coach. Otherwise, I'm okay with the coaching staff. What the Metsd truly need is some new and better pitchers in 2008.

Zvon Oct 02 2007 06:21 PM

I have no problem giving Willie and Omar nice big chunks of the blame. But not the axe. Hope they both learned afew things that stick with them.

Grote15 Oct 02 2007 06:37 PM

Well..wee Willie is safe...Why Alomar? Seems silly I think I've had enough of Rick Peterson

cooby Oct 02 2007 07:03 PM

Good I'm glad too...it would be nice to see some new faces on the pitching staff, that's for sure.

metirish Oct 02 2007 07:06 PM

] It's official: Willie stays as Mets manager BY DAVID LENNON | david.lennon@newsday.com After an unsettling 24 hours for the Mets, general manager Omar Minaya announced this afternoon that Willie Randolph will return as manager for the 2008 season. The Mets' collapse raised speculation that Randolph might take the fall for the team's miserable finish, and Minaya did nothing to quell those concerns on Monday. But after meeting with ownership this morning, Minaya revealed his decision to retain Randolph during a 40-minute news conference at Shea Stadium. "After thinking about this, I have decided that Willie should continue to manage our club," Minaya said. "As the GM, it was my decision to make." Randolph stood beside Minaya during the media briefing and spoke to reporters immediately afterward. "It's been a tough couple days for me," Randolph said. "The way the season ended was unacceptable, and as manager of the ballclub, I take full responsibility for not getting it done." "I've always been associated with winning and it hurts deep down inside, it really hurts to be associated with this type of collapse. That's not why we play the game and there's no way in the world that I thought we'd be in this position right now talking about this." When asked about his job security moving forward, Randolph said that has never been his primary objective since taking the Mets job at the start of the 2005 season. "I'm not concerned about my security. I came here to help this team win a championship. I'm a New Yorker, I'm passionate and I live and die with this team every day. I'm here to win, that's all of my focus." The Mets became the first team ever to blow a seven-game lead with 17 games remaining in the season, and it happened with embarrassing speed. Sitting atop the NL East on Sept. 12, they went 5-12 down the stretch and were crushed by the Marlins, 8-1, on the season's final day to hand the division crown to the Phillies. More articles

Benjamin Grimm Oct 03 2007 07:24 AM

Bad bad terrible horrible decision. (Am I making myself clear here?) In February and March, the Collapse will be a big stinking toxic cloud over the Mets training camp. It will make for a poisonous atmosphere and I don't think Willie Randolph will be able to dispel it. A new manager could just say, "I wasn't here. We have a clean slate." Willie could say, "I'm confident that we've put this behind us" but everyone will remember how confident he was when everything was falling apart the previous September. 2008 has just gotten off on the wrong foot. If, in May, the Mets find themselves around .500 and in third place (which is not at all far-fetched) Willie will probably be fired anyway.

metirish Oct 03 2007 07:28 AM

Jeter called Willie. ] Fifteen minutes before Randolph walked into the first day of the rest of his Mets life, Jeter interrupted his postseason workout to call him from the other side of October. They've stayed in regular touch since Randolph left Joe Torre's side. Jeter spoke with a credibility that none of Randolph's young stars could touch. After all, the Yankee captain was MVP of the last World Series that included the Mets. "Hang in there, bro," Jeter told Randolph. "You know it's the players, not the manager. You're not the one out there playing. You can't hit and field and pitch for them." Maybe Randolph needed to hear that from someone he could trust. "That's my boy," he said of Jeter. [url=http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3ODMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMDI5MzImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2]Klap on Willie[/url]

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2007 07:40 AM

Madden in the Snooze makes a case today that the real power in the org belongs to Tony Bernazard, to whom the Latin players can and do go over Willie's head to report to. That arrangement, he says, leaves Willie with "no juice." The org is also not standing up for him.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 03 2007 07:43 AM

Yeah. They're keeping Willie (for now) because of the 4 point something million that they owe him for the next two years. Unless the Mets come roaring out of the gate next April, that won't be enough to save him. Also, didn't Davey Johnson also shave off his mustache late in his tenure as Mets manager in a futile attempt to save his job?

metirish Oct 03 2007 07:48 AM

Madden is not the first to indicate that Bernazard wields a lot of power in the Mets front office, I've read recently that he pretty much thinks Willie is useless. I also hate the idea that Willie might actually be keeping his job because of monetary reasons , that never works I don't think. [url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/10/03/2007-10-03_wille_randolph_gets_backing_but_shouldnt.html]Madden on Willie[/url]

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2007 08:00 AM

"Madden is not the first to indicate that Bernazard wields a lot of power in the Mets front office, I've read recently that he pretty much thinks Willie is useless." Are others actually reporting this, or is it a case Madden being the source and others merely repeating something that's "out there" ? ]"I also hate the idea that Willie might actually be keeping his job because of monetary reasons This ownership has dumped Howe, Bonilla, Cedeno, Ordonez and others owing them a heckuva lot than they owe Willie. I honestly don't think this is a factor.

metirish Oct 03 2007 08:12 AM

="Frayed Knot"]"Madden is not the first to indicate that Bernazard wields a lot of power in the Mets front office, I've read recently that he pretty much thinks Willie is useless." Are others actually reporting this, or is it a case Madden being the source and others merely repeating something that's "out there" ? ]"I also hate the idea that Willie might actually be keeping his job because of monetary reasons This ownership has dumped Howe, Bonilla, Cedeno, Ordonez and others owing them a heckuva lot than they owe Willie. I honestly don't think this is a factor. I've read about Bernazard for a while now,yesterday Ken Davidoff from Newsday had this.... ] Minaya also tolerated a culture in which an assistant, vice president of development Tony Bernazard, openly fraternized with Nationals manager Manny Acta whenever the Mets and Washington played each other. Between those actions and Bernazard's behind-the-scenes criticisms of Randolph, Bernazard gave off the strongest impression that he wished Acta were the Mets' manager. That's not healthy. Maybe Wilpon has had enough of paying employees not to work for them, but no I don't think that was the reason they kept him on but I think it was a factor. Whatever happened with Bernazard and the Pirates, they asked for and got permission to interview him for the GM job, heard nothing since then though.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2007 08:20 AM

Does it drive anyone else crazy that these guys who report these front-office power rifts never address or question their Boogeyman directly? Not that I doubt there's some truth to Madden's story here -- I don't doubt someone is saying it, that's for sure -- but if Madden reports that every Latin player on the Mets has Bernanzard's cell number, how hard would it be to get himself? Could you address this with him directly? Could you ask Omar to address these questions?

Edgy DC Oct 03 2007 10:40 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 03 2007 12:00 PM

A handful of managers don't get hired because they can't agree with their teams over money. I imagine few or none don't get fired because of a team afraid to eat the money. It's a fraction of the budget in the big picture. Managers on the hot seat remain because the team fears the instability of throwing new leadership --- usually a complete unknown --- at players they have a lot invested in. That's where money comes into it. Wouldn't it be funny if Delgado and Bernazard were bff?

Frayed Knot Oct 03 2007 11:13 AM

]Could you ask Omar to address these questions? M&MD did on Tuesday. Omar, of course, denied there is or was a rift.

Valadius Oct 03 2007 11:51 AM

Pittsburgh hired a GM, one of Shapiro's assistants in Cleveland.

Valadius Oct 03 2007 12:07 PM

According to the Daily News, when the Mets brought Willie in, they expected him to be malleable, a pushover, because he had no previous managerial experience. However, that's proven to not be the case, and Willie has exerted his will. I think that's a good sign.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 03 2007 12:08 PM

How has he exerted his will?

Valadius Oct 03 2007 12:10 PM

We don't know. Hard to tell with Willie. But apparently, he has. He might look like a cipher while he's in the dugout, but apparently there's a lot more to him.

metirish Oct 03 2007 12:14 PM

I tend to not agree with that Val, he didn't exactly inspire or motivate his players in public or behind closed doors, there probably is nothing at all remarkable about Randolph.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 03 2007 12:41 PM

Exactly! If he was a remarkable manager who went through a bad streak at a bad time, I wouldn't be calling for his head. (Not that anyone's listening.) I know there's VORP, but is there a VORM for managers? I think that there are at least two or three (or perhaps many more) guys already within the Mets organization who would do as well or better than Willie Randolph. Am I the only one worried about the toxic cloud of stink in Port St. Lucie next spring?

Edgy DC Oct 03 2007 12:52 PM

I know how to calculate VORM. I just need a sabbatical.

metirish Oct 03 2007 01:01 PM

I'm very worried about this team going forward, I'll wait and see what changes are made before the spring. I don't know how true these stories are about Bernazard but they can't make the Mets an attractive team to manage to experienced skippers out there. Not that we need a manager but in case we do.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 03 2007 01:09 PM

I think we may need one midseason, which is why I'm wondering about who might be available from within the organization.