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Intersting health of baseball article in Smart Money

SteveJRogers Sep 22 2007 12:46 PM

Smart Money is a monthly magazine put out by the Wall Street Journal, and every month as a "10 Things" column. This is only in the print edition, so from the October '07 issue Ten Things Major League Baseball Is Not Telling You by Barry Petchesky Number One, "So Much For The National Pastime" really is good evidence in my "baseball is dying" argument as it mentions a Harris Poll from 1985 where baseball as a favorite sport was listed by 1/4th of the respondents. In 2006, that number dropped 14% which is half as much as the NFL. Petchesky also mentioned the rise of NASCAR and soccer in the context of it, but showed no reason for the inclusion of those two sports. Also mentioned is the Nielson ratings where the postseason ratings since 1985 have fallen 50% and the fact that all 10 of the lowest rated World Series have occurred within the last decades. Inconvenient game times is given as the culprit, and more to the point there is a quote from SABR's Gary Gillette that says "the diehards will always be there...but the causal fans have left in droves." The other items include; -How MLB is essentially scalping their own tickets by going to bed with Stubhub and other resellers. -Alienating fans because of arcane territory rights that black out certain markets on MLB.com's MLBTV service. -The rise of the Latin American player at the expense of American born players. -Crazy accounting that makes teams appear to be losing money and in turn more raises in prices at the ballpark, not to mention getting the public to finance new ballparks in one form or another. -There are still many problems with the drug policy, especially in the case where you can not test for HGH. -And the coziness of having that anti-trust exemption. Its good for a quick read on the problems still facing baseball, despite what the revenue streams of attendance records and merchandise sales will have you believe.

Kid Carsey Sep 22 2007 01:21 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Sep 22 2007 01:24 PM

SJR: >>>Smart Money is a monthly magazine put out by the Wall Street Journal<<< Thanks, I always wondered who put that out when I was reaching past it to pick up a copy of The National Enquirer to thumb through on line at the supermarket. I still think this notion that baseball is dead is silly, but glad you found some- one to help you bang your drum this cloudy afternoon.

martin Sep 22 2007 01:21 PM

scalping your own tickets doesnt seem like a problem. i have always thought sports venues miss out on profits by not getting market (scalped) value for their seats. more money for baseball is not a "problem" dont see the problem with latin players "excluding" americans. talent is talent. people like to watch anyways. last time you made these points i mentioned that nascar ratings are not impressing the way they used to. maybe you should do a "nascar is dying" thread. i will buy that crazy blacjout rules piss off the fans.

Edgy DC Sep 22 2007 01:25 PM

I don't want totals, I want averages.

SteveJRogers Sep 22 2007 01:30 PM

martin wrote: scalping your own tickets doesnt seem like a problem. i have always thought sports venues miss out on profits by not getting market (scalped) value for their seats. more money for baseball is not a "problem" dont see the problem with latin players "excluding" americans. talent is talent. people like to watch anyways. I'm not sure if the article listed them as problems as opposed to just exposing something baseball doesn't want you to know. Also, the Latin American point was labeled "As American As Apple Pie...And Job Outsourcing" which probably is more of a social statement than a localized baseball statement, but there does seem to be more movement towards the factories in Latin America than there are here in the Continental U.S. ]last time you made these points i mentioned that nascar ratings are not impressing the way they used to. maybe you should do a "nascar is dying" thread. Which probably is why the author didn't mention the actual ratings other than the decline in MLB in the piece =;)

cooby Sep 22 2007 01:31 PM

Alienating fans because of arcane territory rights that black out certain markets on MLB.com's MLBTV service This point could be highly expanded on to include ESPN games (I'm too local to watch the Mets) and private team ownership television channels (I'm talking to you Mets and Yankees) which don't allow romote fans to buy their channels on cable (I'm too far away to watch the Mets)

SteveJRogers Sep 22 2007 01:38 PM

cooby wrote: Alienating fans because of arcane territory rights that black out certain markets on MLB.com's MLBTV service This point could be highly expanded on to include ESPN games (I'm too local to watch the Mets) and private team ownership television channels (I'm talking to you Mets and Yankees) which don't allow romote fans to buy their channels on cable (I'm too far away to watch the Mets) That may be more of a cable provider issue though. I doubt Cablevision or Time Warner, even through their new fangled digital services carry out of market networks like NESN, Comcast, Turner South, your local FOX regional sports network, ect. DirecTV does offer a wide selection of those networks but, and here I will agree with you, due to MLB Extra Innings and the NBA and NHL packages black out ALL team related programing (classic games, pre/post coverage, weekly highlights, ect) not just the current game if you are out of the market.

metsguyinmichigan Sep 22 2007 01:52 PM

It's misleading to say that because ratings are down, people aren't following the game. How many different ways can you follow a game these days besides watchign it on television?

cooby Sep 22 2007 01:52 PM

]That may be more of a cable provider issue though. I doubt Cablevision or Time Warner, even through their new fangled digital services carry out of market networks like NESN, Comcast, Turner South, your local FOX regional sports network, ect. Somewhat correct, Steve, Comcast won't even carry the Big Ten network here which for some is a much bigger crises than lack of NY baseball coverage! But research into this problem for me has resulted in the feeling that the Mets are mainly to blame for the blackout on ESPN in this area. My neighbor Steve and I are the only two Mets fans that I know of in Woolrich and last spring he called Comcast to complain that we could not watch the Mets games on ESPN and the rep at Comcast told him that that was the Mets idea that "our area was in the perimeters of blackout" according to the plan the Mets came up with. Could be a lie, but why would they? Have you ever wondered why I am a Mets fan instead of a Phillie or Pirate fan? I grew up watching the Mets and Yankees on basic cable for free for years and years. Now, in order for an out of market fan to watch either team, it requires a dish, a receiver, and special hookup. Ka-ching. No thank you. It's not that I don't have it, but I'm not spending it on sports teams that care so little for my fandom. Now as for the rest of you, who can either watch on TV for free, or drive to the game....does it occur to you that the new stadium will have room for approximately 10000 less fans per game? Have you considered how that money will be recouped? 1) Higher stadium prices, higher parking prices, higher concession prices. 2) Higher cable prices, for those of you who CAN watch the games that way. 3) Higher pay TV prices, via MLB.TV, for those of you who have shelled out for MLB.TV and a dish. In a few years, you'll all be as pissed off as I am at the Mets (yes, I do still root for them though) and their fan base will have shriveled to local fans only, as they apparantly want it to be. And my generation will be the last of the remote Mets/Yankees fans.

Kid Carsey Sep 22 2007 02:08 PM

I dunno cooby, and I'll think about it some more, but I think it sounds a little paranoid to think the Mets are out to screw the good folks of central Penn- sylvania wanting to better please the good folks of the central tri-state area. The 10,000 seat less stadium is in keeping with the times. There's 15,000 seats at Shea Stadium that suck and another 10,000 that are borderline. The fact that one can watch baseball on the internet, cable, satelite dish, etc. is a matter of the times we live in. You can watch anything you want for a price in all the major sports including most college crap. It's not a Metscentric thing but a sports/media relationship thing based on love of the almighty buck. We've had some of this discussion before on various levels. I have said more than once that I find it ridiculous that all these choices and competition for viewers should lower prices for everything but we all pay through the ass.

SteveJRogers Sep 22 2007 02:26 PM

="Kid Carsey"]You can watch anything you want for a price in all the major sports including most college crap. It's not a Metscentric thing but a sports/media relationship thing based on love of the almighty buck. BINGO! And yes, the causal NBA and NHL (if there were any even before the lockout that canceled the entire season) is gone forever as well. At this point the only thing that can bring baseball back is someone so transcendent on the Jordan, Tiger Woods level that there is no question about their legitimacy. Even ARod, Pujols and Howard are shrouded in the same steroid black cloud. Also that player must win multiple championships on a team that is not the Yankees/Mets/Dodgers/Red Sox, and therefore shows that there is no inequality issues when it comes to multiple postseason apperances. See Derek Jeter for this example, who is loathed by scores of non-Yankee fans due to the simple reason that he is a member of the New York Yankees, despite the fact that he truly is one of the "good guys" that the sport is built around. Okay he clearly isn't anywhere near the ARod/Griffey/Bonds/Pujols/Howard level, or even Jimmie Rollins/Hanley Ramierez level in terms of impact short stops, but he is a future HOF if he remains healthy as he is on pace to race through the 3,000 hit club. So pretty much he is Paul Molitor/Craig Biggio before people started to realize they were putting up HOF caliber numbers.

Frayed Knot Sep 22 2007 02:29 PM

I suppose one could point out [AGAIN] that listing various problems and/or contradictions is NOT the same thing as saying "the sport is dying" but I've already wasted enough band-width on that and you're obviously going to stick with your tendancy of coming to a conclusion first and then cherry-picking and twisting whatever evidence comes down the pike when it fits your pre-determined conclusion. "The rise of the Latin American player at the expense of American born players" Yeah, I just hate the way MLB has been hiding its Latin influence. "- How MLB is essentially scalping their own tickets by going to bed with Stubhub and other resellers." Yes they are and it's bad business practice IMO. But it's something which is partly driven by increased ticket demand! " - Alienating fans because of arcane territory rights that black out certain markets on MLB.com's MLBTV service." As opposed to the NFL's national TV deal which is built on exclusivity rights and blackouts designed to protect local teams and articfically boost TV ratings through lack of competition. "-Crazy accounting that makes teams appear to be losing money and in turn more raises in prices at the ballpark, not to mention getting the public to finance new ballparks in one form or another." In other news, Seattle is expecting rain this winter. And the way they've kept the second largest city in the country without a team for all these years strictly to use it as a threat to cities who won't cough up subsidized stadiums is disgusting ... oh wait. "-There are still many problems with the drug policy, especially in the case where you can not test for HGH." This just in: ALL sports are dying!!! "-And the coziness of having that anti-trust exemption." I agree it should no longer exist but this is the biggest red herring in sports today. Much of the exemption has already been watered down to virtual non-existance and what remains doesn't allow baseball to act any differently than any other sports league. "Its good for a quick read on the problems still facing baseball, despite what the revenue streams of attendance records and merchandise sales will have you believe." Well that's good because I'm certainly tired of hearing how baseball has no problems. Nothing in that article is wrong per se but it's not saying what you claim it's saying nor is it breaking any news. This notion that problems within baseball are being swept under the rug either by itself or by a dis-interested news media is laughable.

Kid Carsey Sep 22 2007 03:31 PM

Re-thinking, a dollar a day for all baseball games via Extra Innings or about fifty cents a day to watch on your laptop plopped down on the coffee table is pretty damn cheap. Depriving oneself from watching for the cost of a news- paper because you can't get it for "free" on tv (and we all know nothing is free) and blaming it on a team seems misguided to me.

cooby Sep 22 2007 04:35 PM

KC, I'll admit you'd understand my point of view much better if you were wearing my shoes. Sorry I've been abandoning my argument here, but I have been watching the Penn State game, on (ahem) abc. I don't think it's a coincidence that my interest in football has increased dramatically in the past couple of years.

Kid Carsey Sep 22 2007 05:06 PM

I ain't really arguing with you cooby, I'm all over the map already in this thread. If you weren't a Penn State fan and wanted to watch the Wisconsin Beavers or whatever they're called would you get the college package? My dogs would look funny trying to fill your shoes.

cooby Sep 22 2007 05:44 PM

I am sure your feet are bigger than mine :)

Edgy DC Sep 22 2007 06:11 PM

For the thousandth time, "baseball is the national pastime is a phrase that goes back to the 1850s and doesn't refer to what people like to watch on television, but what they like to do. It hasn't been true to any extent since early in the 20th century, certainly since World War II. America's National Pastime is watching shit on TV. I've been hearing about it losing this status, based on TV viewing preferences or jive-assed polls my whole baseball-loving life, and it completely misreads the quote.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 13 2007 03:24 PM

Baseball: [url=http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-baseball13nov13,1,5493513.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=2&cset=true]Still dead[/url].

sharpie Nov 13 2007 04:06 PM

Ya gotta register for that, Seo.

smg58 Nov 13 2007 04:09 PM

The one thing I'm surprised they didn't mention is broadcasting postseason games at times that ensure that nobody on the East Coast who doesn't have a specific rooting interest will stay up to watch the end.

A Boy Named Seo Nov 13 2007 04:16 PM

]Baseball cash tree is ripe for picking As free agents chase money, the sport has plenty available, with $6 billion in revenue this year. By Bill Shaikin, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer November 13, 2007 It was Gil Meche last winter. It could be Kyle Lohse this winter, or Carlos Silva, or Francisco Cordero. It certainly could be Alex Rodriguez. Today is the first day free agents can sign with a new team. In the days and weeks to come, some player will sign a contract that appears so outrageous fans will shake their heads in amazement. Meche was a relatively unknown and definitely undistinguished pitcher last winter, with a career record just above .500 and a career earned-run average just below 5.00. Then the Kansas City Royals lavished $55 million upon him, and all of a sudden fans wondered not only what the Royals were thinking but when this geyser of money erupted. Baseball is awash in revenue, and you don't have to take Scott Boras' word for it. The commissioner, Bud Selig, would be more than happy to put a number on it for you: Baseball is a $6-billion industry. Since owners and players last shut down the game, baseball's annual gross revenue has increased fivefold, from $1.2 billion in 1994 to an estimated $6 billion this year. "That number is the most dramatic manifestation of how popular the sport is," Selig said. "That number is stunning." The players have shared in the spoils. Rodriguez, the game's highest-paid player, made $27 million in base salary this year, and opted out of his contract in hopes of making more in free agency. The game's highest-paid player in 1994 was Bobby Bonilla of the New York Mets, at $6.3 million. The cancellation of the 1994 World Series did not, as fashionably predicted at the time, herald the death of baseball as a major American sport. Now, flush with bucks from online and international ventures unimaginable a decade ago, and from new ballparks that double as cash machines, baseball is within striking distance of the estimated $6.3 billion generated by the NFL this year. "Baseball was not the national pastime, but past its time: That's what everybody said," Selig said. "I happen to believe the sport is as popular today as it's ever been and as popular as any sport now." For the fourth consecutive season, baseball set an attendance record, in the major leagues and in the minor leagues. Interleague play has juiced attendance, with the surefire series -- Angels vs. Dodgers, New York Yankees vs. New York Mets, and so on -- booked into prime weekend spots. The wild card has been wildly successful, not only in diversifying the playoff field and keeping fans interested once football season starts, but by accenting the power of the biggest draws in the game, the Yankees and Boston Red Sox. The Yankees and Red Sox have made the playoffs together three times in the last five years; the Yankees have qualified every year since the 1994 strike. But no team repeated as a division champion this year, and no team has repeated as a World Series champion in seven years, a span in which parades have been held in honor of the Angels, Arizona Diamondbacks, Chicago White Sox, Florida Marlins and St. Louis Cardinals. "There's a general parity of belief -- not necessarily more parity," said Boras, perhaps the most powerful agent in the game. "The Yankees and Red Sox are always winning, which I think is a good thing for the sport. "You have your Goliaths. But you have a lot of Davids winning the World Series. That brings a ray of hope to a lot of people in the game." Whether fans followed games at the ballpark, on television, on radio or online, they spent billions of dollars. And corporations spent billions more to reach those fans. "I think the game, overall, has taken good advantage of expanding economic opportunities," said Donald Fehr, executive director of the players' union. In 2006, for instance, baseball generated $1.2 billion from luxury suites, advertising and sponsorships -- equivalent to total revenues in 1994. Clubs hauled in corporate dollars in naming rights, to a ballpark or to a particular section of it. In renovations at Angel Stadium and in Dodger Stadium, and in new ballparks across the country, clubs converted their best seats to luxury boxes and suites, with fine dining and fax service and $400 tickets. "There's been a strong demand for corporate and premium seating, which has created a great deal of revenue," Boras said. "Owners learned how to operate their ballparks -- 70% of the revenue comes from 30% of the seating." Revenues from traditional tickets and local broadcast rights have more than tripled since 1994. And, with the value of sports programming rising to national advertisers struggling to reach mass audiences amid the proliferation of cable and satellite channels, national broadcast rights have soared from $52 million to $935 million. But the biggest eruptions from that geyser of money may be yet to come, as baseball expands its presence abroad and online. The jump in merchandising and licensing revenue from 1994 to 2006 was almost three times greater internationally than in the United States, and countries from Israel to Colombia are clamoring for entry into the second World Baseball Classic, scheduled for 2009. "Ten years from now, you won't recognize the sport worldwide," Selig said. "It will be that quick. The World Baseball Classic was the first real foray into that, and it was so good. "We've opened an office in Beijing. Israel is talking baseball now. We want to open up in Europe. We're going to be very aggressive. It opens up horizons that don't exist. It's huge." The same is true for MLB Advanced Media (MLBAM), the hugely successful online arm of baseball. MLBAM generates hundreds of millions no one could envision a decade ago, running online operations in baseball and beyond, venturing into such areas as volleyball and music. In baseball, team websites offer one-stop access to news, game updates, video and audio coverage, promotions and ticket and merchandise sales. Diamondbacks President Derrick Hall said his team sells eight out of 10 tickets online. "I think we've only scratched the surface in terms of what MLBAM ultimately will become," said Jeff Moorad, Diamondbacks chief executive. The revenue revolution could be fueled by the marriage of international outreach and innovative technology, said Billy Beane, Oakland Athletics general manager. "I can get it on my computer. People are going to be able to get it on their phones," Beane said. "There are millions -- possibly billions -- of people on the other side of the world that have yet to pick their favorite team. They're going to be able to pull up their cellphone some day and watch the Oakland A's from Hong Kong." In addition to the money split evenly among 30 teams -- in jersey sales and online operations, for instance -- the teams that make the least money get welfare from the teams that make the most. This year's revenue-sharing pool is a record $342 million, Selig said. Fehr, the union chief, notes baseball has taken advantage of a strong economy over the last decade. But he also notes better management leads to more money. "Do you remember when Seattle was a tiny-market club, and San Francisco, and Texas, and all those teams that could never draw and were terrible?" Fehr said. "It shows that, in most of those cases, there wasn't anything intrinsic about the location. It had more to do with the way teams were being managed." The factor most fundamental in selling baseball is, of course, playing baseball. Since the 1994 strike, owners and players have twice negotiated a new collective bargaining agreement without either side threatening to shut down the game. "A generation of fans was always holding their breath," Beane said, "waiting for the next interruption." Selig cannot guarantee something as delicate as labor peace. Or can he? "In the '70s and '80s and early '90s, clubs were fighting with each other," he said. "Clubs were fighting with commissioners. The union and clubs were fighting. Players were fighting, owners fighting with owners. "Just think how different it is. Those things don't exist any more. And they won't, as far as I'm concerned."

Nymr83 Nov 13 2007 08:28 PM

]Israel is talking baseball now i ordered an israel baseball leaguehat 2 months ago and it still hasnt showed up, thanks for reminding me! nasty email time...