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Tom Glavine

soupcan Sep 26 2007 12:23 PM

...just pissed me off last night. If there was ever a time for a first ballot Hall of Fame 300 game-winning veteran of a staff to 'show up', then last night was it. I don't want to hear that 'it was just one of those nights', or 'I just didn't have my stuff'. Please. That team, again, is the weakest hitting team in the bigs and they ran roughshod over him from the get-go. If Gavine gives up 3 runs over 5 innings then the Mets win that game. Not a lot to ask of him at that point you know? Go home Tom, retire already. In my mind he pulled a Trachsel last night. Now lets say the Mets do get in the postseason and Glavine spins some wunnerful games. That's all well and good but I'm soured on him from here on in. I really thought that he, of all people, would take charge of that game last night and he let all Met fans down. Hard.

metirish Sep 26 2007 12:26 PM

I can't really say I was surprised by his outing,to me he looks the same throwing a one hitter as he does on nights he stinks the joint, does that make sense?

Edgy DC Sep 26 2007 12:27 PM

First loss of the second half. Send him home, you've got to send a lot of guys with him.

soupcan Sep 26 2007 12:32 PM

Edgy DC wrote: First loss of the second half. Send him home, you've got to send a lot of guys with him. First loss but not the first bad outing at crunch time. I know I'm being irrational but you know what I'm talking about. Tell me you didn't feel good knowing that it was Glavine last night. Knowing that we had our veteran guy who even without his best stuff would know what the situation called for and would somehow muster up the effort that the Mets needed last night. I was just so disappointed.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2007 12:33 PM

It's Glavine's second bad performance in a row. If he had pitched well in one of his last two starts, the Mets would be three games up instead of two, which, at this point, is a huge difference. Having said that, he's been the Mets most consistent and reliable starter throughout the year. They'd be, overall, in much worse shape without him. I'd still welcome him back for 2008.

HahnSolo Sep 26 2007 01:21 PM

Gotta pose this question: if we need the final game of the season, does anybody really have any confidence in Glavine after his last two starts?

Edgy DC Sep 26 2007 01:25 PM

Relative to the rest of the rotation, why not?

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2007 01:26 PM

Well, no, of course not. I have no confidence in Maine or Pelfrey either. Hernandez has been hurt. Martinez has been throwing too many pitches. I'm not confident in any of these guys, but I'm least uneasy with Perez and Martinez. This is why our NLDS outlook is so dicey. They've all been more bad than good lately.

smg58 Sep 26 2007 01:41 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Relative to the rest of the rotation, why not? Unfortunately that's the only answer I could come up with myself. Yes we're all mad at him for his gopher ball exhibition last night, but he's still a HOF pitcher and he's been our most consistent starter the second half.

soupcan Sep 26 2007 01:48 PM

="smg58"]but he's still a HOF pitcher and he's been our most consistent starter the second half. What good is that when he throws a stinkbomb like he did last night? Not against the Braves, not against the Phillies, not against the Cubs. Against the Nationals. 'We're giving the ball to Tommy tonight because he's a crafty veteran who knows what to do in these situations...blah, blah, freakin' blah...'

Benjamin Grimm Sep 26 2007 01:58 PM

Yeah, he sucked last night? Does that mean he'll suck again next time around? Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't. Our only reasonable option is to put him out there again and see what happens. We didn't give up on Al Leiter when he couldn't get anyone out (literally!) in 1999 NLCS Game 6. Really, what can you do. Even pitchers as good as Glavine (or better) have bad games. And sometimes they come at bad times. It's not a sign of a character flaw, it's a sign that he's human.

Frayed Knot Sep 26 2007 02:09 PM

Glavine on the radio NOW!!!! for his regular weekly stint. - couldn't get the feel/control of the change-up all night - the curveball that Kearns hit surprised him because he throws so few that batters rarely even swing at it much less hit it a mile

soupcan Sep 26 2007 02:28 PM

="Yancy Street Gang"]Really, what can you do. Even pitchers as good as Glavine (or better) have bad games. And sometimes they come at bad times. It's not a sign of a character flaw, it's a sign that he's human. I understand. I do. Its just that the stars were aligned last night. - MUST win - Tom Glavine - Met offense is clicking - Nationals All we needed was a so-so start from a guy that we should've been able to count on in that situation. The guy just did not show up. It bummed me out.

metirish Sep 26 2007 02:31 PM

Can pitchers really make adjustments during a game, I hear a lot about it but am wondering if Glavine does.Right now I would trust Perez in a must win.

soupcan Sep 30 2007 01:13 PM

Thanks again Tom! Douchebag.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2007 01:15 PM

You're not pleased with today's results?

soupcan Sep 30 2007 01:30 PM

You still want him back next year? I sure as hell don't. He got the ball twice in two must win situations and got blown out of the box. Didn't even come close to giving his team a chance. Against two of the worst teams in the league. The last thing I want to see is Tom Glavine in a Mets uniform next year. Good riddance choker.

Rockin' Doc Sep 30 2007 01:44 PM

Glavine has been one of the Mets best starting pitchers the past 2 seasons, but he really spit the bit the last few times out, particularly his last two outings. I had believed that the Mets should bring him back in 2008, but after the last few outings I'm thinking that the money required to retain him could go to better use elsewhere. Glavine is a certain hall of Famer that his enjoyed a long and successful career, but I think his stuff has eroded away to the point that he has no room for error with his pitches. I do think it is now time to move on.

bmfc1 Sep 30 2007 01:54 PM

I do want to see Glavine pitch again for the Mets... during the '07 playoffs. In '08, he can pitch elsewhere. Three big starts down the stretch, three lousy performances.

Rockin' Doc Sep 30 2007 01:59 PM

bmfc1 -"I do want to see Glavine pitch again for the Mets... during the '07 playoffs...." Extremely slim chance of that happening. The Mets collapse is definitiely not Glavine's fault, but he did nothing to help end the slide down the stretch.

cooby Sep 30 2007 03:18 PM

I was folding sheets, up in the bedroom, and walked over to the laptop to check on the score right after the game started....when I saw it was 7-0 after a third of an inning I commented to my husband that Glavine's going to be run out of NY on a rail. Anybody got a rail?

Iubitul Sep 30 2007 04:10 PM

He left the same way he came in, as The Manchurian Brave* *thanks FAFIF for this great nickname

SteveJRogers Sep 30 2007 04:13 PM

One problem, isn't the option for next year his to pick up?

seawolf17 Sep 30 2007 04:20 PM

His option, team's buyout, I believe. Or is that someone else? Did his option vest already?

Rockin' Doc Sep 30 2007 05:51 PM

ESPN offers the following details regarding the terms of Tom Glavine's contract status for the 2008 season: Glavine signed a one year contract for $10.5 mil. this season. His deal contained a $9 million player option for 2008 that became guaranteed when he passed 160 innings this season. The price of the option increases by $1 million for each additional 10 innings up to a maximum price of $13 million. Glavine pitched 200.3 innings this season, to lead the Mets staff. If the option isn't exercised, Glavine gets a $3 million buyout and he has the right to decline the option even if it becomes guaranteed. So Glavine would receive $13 mil. if he decides to exercise his guaranteed player option or he gets $ 3 mil. if he decides to retire or opts to pursue free agency. Hell, for $13 mil. I would come back for a final year if I was him, so the Mets may not really have a choice.

Iubitul Sep 30 2007 05:57 PM

All the jokes about glavine being the Manchurian Brave aside, he always seemed to be a class guy with his priorities straight. I don't think he would come back for just the money if he didn't think it was the right thing to do for his family or his career.

Benjamin Grimm Sep 30 2007 06:09 PM

Yeah, he's a good guy. He deserved a better last game as a Met than what he had today.

soupcan Sep 30 2007 06:35 PM

I think its too bad that he'll be coming back (I assume the Mets aren't going to eat $13 mil in order to let a starting pitcher who won 13 games walk away). He's shown himself to be so much less than a big game pitcher. If the Mets are ever faced with another big spot in which they need a starting pitcher to step up, I hope that they remember how badly Glavine failed in that role this season the two times he had a chance. I never want to hear another baseball person, broadcaser, writer, etc. espouse about what a dependable veteran Tom Glavine is. Because he isn't.

seawolf17 Sep 30 2007 06:37 PM

Has anyone ever really felt comfortable with Glavine in a big spot? I know I haven't, in all his years here. I've never once said "Oh, it's okay, because Glavine's pitching tonight." There's always been that underlying unease for me.

metirish Sep 30 2007 06:47 PM

I don't think I have ever felt comfortable with that, like when he would face off against the Braves I would think " oh fuck he's facing Smoltz". Hearing him on the post-game he sounds very nonchalant about the whole thing.

Gwreck Sep 30 2007 07:32 PM

seawolf17 wrote: I've never once said "Oh, it's okay, because Glavine's pitching tonight." There's always been that underlying unease for me. Even in the DS and LCS last year? Glavine was pretty good, IIRC. I seem to recall that everybody was pretty confident with him going, worrying about Trachsel, Perez and Maine instead.

PatchyFogg Sep 30 2007 07:44 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: ESPN offers the following details regarding the terms of Tom Glavine's contract status for the 2008 season: Glavine signed a one year contract for $10.5 mil. this season. His deal contained a $9 million player option for 2008 that became guaranteed when he passed 160 innings this season. The price of the option increases by $1 million for each additional 10 innings up to a maximum price of $13 million. Glavine pitched 200.3 innings this season, to lead the Mets staff. If the option isn't exercised, Glavine gets a $3 million buyout and he has the right to decline the option even if it becomes guaranteed. So Glavine would receive $13 mil. if he decides to exercise his guaranteed player option or he gets $ 3 mil. if he decides to retire or opts to pursue free agency. Hell, for $13 mil. I would come back for a final year if I was him, so the Mets may not really have a choice. And, here I thought today's performance would bring his pricetag down to a palatable level for the Braves.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 08:19 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Has anyone ever really felt comfortable with Glavine in a big spot? I know I haven't, in all his years here. I've never once said "Oh, it's okay, because Glavine's pitching tonight." There's always been that underlying unease for me. I did during last year's playoffs AFTER his first NLCS start.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 30 2007 08:24 PM

Anyone who says they knew Glavine would sbhmc today is full of it.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 08:25 PM

Today it was massive. I felt good today going into the game.

Edgy DC Sep 30 2007 08:35 PM

It would be far easier to dump the hate bucket on Glavine if the Mets O showed up today. It didn't. How they go forward is going to be very interesting, but I'm not going to fall for the idea that shedding Glavine (or any other scapegoat) puts anything behind this team.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 08:39 PM

Edgy DC wrote: It would be far easier to dump the hate bucket on Glavine if the Mets O showed up today. Well yeah. But I wonder how much more they hit if they're not down 7. I figure (with no real evidence) that the hitters still felt like they had a shot until the second time they left the bases loaded to end an inning. If Castro's fly ball in the first travels another 10 feet, don't you think they score another 8 runs before the game's over? I realize that this is all speculation on the players' feelings, which I normally loathe. But I think it's just human nature that they would've felt better and gotten more hits in innings 6-9 if it was 2-1 (or 3-1, etc) instead of 8-1.

Johnny Dickshot Sep 30 2007 08:44 PM

I agree with that. Re Glavine: I don't think he comes back because he's too old. I can attest to the fact that 41year-olds make lousy athletes.

Edgy DC Sep 30 2007 08:45 PM

After 161 games, with everything on the line, I'd hope they all take responsibility for their own performances, and not hide behind "Well, fuckhead got us into such a hole that it was hard to keep trying." Which isn't to say that your theory doesn't hold water, but if it is true, it sure explains a lot about this team.

metsmarathon Sep 30 2007 08:46 PM

glavine may try to come back to wash the stench off of his record. who knows....

Frayed Knot Sep 30 2007 08:46 PM

Not to go defending Glavine who clearly wasn't sharp today (or last time) but if just one of those soft singles went AT some infielder instead of between them there could have been an easy GiDP and who knows what happens after that. Maybe he would have sucked in inning 2 instead ... or maybe he wouldn't have. And again not to equate the two, but Saturday after Maine puts on the second runner of the game he gets a Strike-out/throw-out. Suppose that had been a BB+SB instead and it's 1st & 2nd 1 out??? Aw fuck it, we could drive ourselves nuts with that kind of stuff.

soupcan Sep 30 2007 08:46 PM

Edgy DC wrote: It would be far easier to dump the hate bucket on Glavine if the Mets O showed up today. 7 runs in less than inning in a game as important as this against a last place team? I don't know about you but its pretty easy for me to dump the hate bucket on him. He went out there and basically gave his team no shot to win.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 08:48 PM

Edgy DC wrote: After 161 games, with everything on the line, I'd hope they all take responsibility for their own performances, and not hide behind "Well, fuckhead got us into such a hole that it was hard to keep trying." Which isn't to say that your theory doesn't hold water, but if it is true, it sure explains a lot about this team. I don't think it says a lot about the team. I think it says a lot about human nature.

soupcan Sep 30 2007 08:52 PM

And just to be clear - I don't blame Glavine for this team's collapse (he was a large part of it however). I'm just pointing out that he had several shots to lift this team up out of this funk at very significant moments both against vastly inferior teams. Not only did not do that, he didn't even show up.

soupcan Sep 30 2007 08:56 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Anyone who says they knew Glavine would sbhmc today is full of it. I'm on record in the first post of this thread.

Edgy DC Sep 30 2007 09:55 PM

Elster88 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]After 161 games, with everything on the line, I'd hope they all take responsibility for their own performances, and not hide behind "Well, fuckhead got us into such a hole that it was hard to keep trying." Which isn't to say that your theory doesn't hold water, but if it is true, it sure explains a lot about this team. I don't think it says a lot about the team. I think it says a lot about human nature. Any team who doesn't believe they can find a way back into that game isn't ready to go to no playoffs. The bullpen --- bad as they've been --- didn't quit, why should the offense?

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 10:16 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ="Elster88"] Edgy DC wrote: After 161 games, with everything on the line, I'd hope they all take responsibility for their own performances, and not hide behind "Well, fuckhead got us into such a hole that it was hard to keep trying." Which isn't to say that your theory doesn't hold water, but if it is true, it sure explains a lot about this team. I don't think it says a lot about the team. I think it says a lot about human nature. Any team who doesn't believe they can find a way back into that game isn't ready to go to no playoffs. The bullpen --- bad as they've been --- didn't quit, why should the offense? I'm strongly being a hypocrite and devil's advocate. Maybe the bullpen didn't get hit becuase the Marlins stopped trying so hard because they were up seven runs.

Edgy DC Sep 30 2007 10:28 PM

Maybe. But I'll add again that if the Mets hitters are too depressed to believe they can score seven off of a last place team with a starter with a 5+ ERA, plus the worst defense in the league, then they've only got themselves to blame. And have serious issues that need some looking into. Al Leiter dug a similar hole in game seven against the Braves in 1999. Those guys didn't quit, and that was a much better opponenent. Adversity and being behind the eight ball is something every team has to answer.

Elster88 Sep 30 2007 10:33 PM

Word. I still wish Castro had hit the ball ten feet further.

smg58 Oct 01 2007 06:22 AM

Glavine's performance yesterday was simply unforgivable. He can't come back. If Minaya has to eat his contract like he should eat those of Mota and Schoenweiss, then so be it. Not that he's the only player to blame, but there's failure and then there's hitting the opposing pitcher with the bases loaded.

metirish Oct 01 2007 06:53 AM

There is plenty of blame to go around, the arrogance of some players thinking they are too good for this to happen to them, hell Delgado was beating that drum even after the game yesterday.

seawolf17 Oct 01 2007 08:18 AM

I don't blame Glavine for losing the division. He's just part of the big picture. And I hoped for good things yesterday, but I certainly didn't go into the game thinking, "All right! Tommy's going today! We're gonna lock this thing up!"

Vic Sage Oct 01 2007 08:41 AM

phuck tom glavine.

Grote15 Oct 01 2007 06:13 PM

Other than the obvious..what bothered me was Glavines post game rap..It was basically "just another day at the office..gotta run" He will be in the HOF but many will remember him for this single outing and day in his life.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 01 2007 06:52 PM

A sports psychologist on NPR today said that Glavine's attitude isn't what the fans like, but it's what makes athletes successful. They have to have the ability to shake off the losses and not dwell on them.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 01 2007 06:56 PM

NPR's All Things Considered discusses the Mets collapse: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14869673 ]All Things Considered, October 1, 2007 · The collapse of the New York Mets, who were passed by the streaking Philadelphia Phillies during the last days of baseball's regular season, raises questions about the mental aspects of winning and losing. Psychology of Baseball author Mike Stadler discusses the mental aspects of winning and losing on the diamond with Robert Siegel.

soupcan Oct 01 2007 07:05 PM

Well whoopie-dam-doo for Tom Glavine. He's mentally fit! Boy I feel better now. The athletes never have as much invested as the fan. Most of us have been rooting for the NEW YORK METS for years, since we were kids even. We see 'METS' we see so much more than a bseball team, we see our whole lives. These kind of losses and seasons hurt so much because the Mets are a part of us. To the vast majority of players the teams they play for are simply their employers. Nothing more, nothing less. That's why when a franchise gets a guy that seems to care as much as the fans do - Derek Jeter, Ken Griffey, Craig Biggio, George Brett, Tony Gwynn, Cal Ripken, etc. that guy becomes beloved. The fans feel like that guy has as much invested as they do. Maybe we've got one in Wright. I'd like to think so. I don't blame Glavine for feeling the way he does, I understand it. His nonchalant postgame reaction doesn't bother me. All I heard all season about Glavine was '300, Hall of Fame, crafty veteran, mentor to the young pitchers, blah, blah, blah' and when push came to shove it looked like he didn't even make an effort.

slugger1138 Oct 02 2007 10:00 PM

Glavine's a piece of shit.

A Boy Named Seo Oct 02 2007 10:37 PM

Welcome back, man.

Centerfield Oct 03 2007 08:59 AM

Don't let the door hit you asshole. Back home in Atlanta following the New York Mets' historic collapse, Tom Glavine said Tuesday he'll "most likely" decline his $9 million player option for next season. "I have five days at the end of our season to accept or decline [the option]," Glavine said from his Alpharetta, Ga., home. "Most likely, I'll decline it." "I still enjoy pitching. I enjoy that day when I go out there trying to execute a game plan. I still enjoy that, and that's not going to go away anytime soon. But does that enjoyment outweigh my, well, not dislike, but my lack of enjoyment the other four days a week when I'm away from home?" "Atlanta is home. The hardest thing for me in New York is playing and being away from home. I've played in New York for five years now. If you break it down [in days, weeks and months], I've been away from my home for four years now. I'm at the point where my wife and kids [ages 13, 12, 8 and 6] are making sacrifices for me." Full Story: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/02/glavine.future/index.html

Rockin' Doc Oct 03 2007 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 03 2007 07:58 PM

"I have five days at the end of our season to accept or decline [the option]," Glavine said from his Alpharetta, Ga., home. "Most likely, I'll decline it." No need to call him names CF. Glavine is hopefully going to do us a favor and grant our wishes by declining his guaranteed option. I say, "Bless you, Tom. Can we have in writing to make that official, please?" The money due Glavine (actually, $ 13 mil. due to IP) should he elect to return to Shea could be put to better use in shoring up the bullpen. I hope he follows his heart and opts to retire to Atlanta. Hell, he can pitch for Atlanta for all I care, as long as the Mets are off the hook for all that money. Edited to denote article quote.

soupcan Oct 03 2007 11:59 AM

He came here with a seasonal average of 16-9 and a 2.67 ERA over his 16 years with the Braves. He took a hell of a lot of money to then average 12-11, 3.97 over the next 5 years. His regularly scheduled clock cleaning appointments always coincided with his facing the Braves. He choked so bad he made Mets fans fondly remember Armando Benitez. Good riddance you non-emotional professional athlete.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2007 12:02 PM

I don't want to hear any more distortions about Armando Benitez.

soupcan Oct 03 2007 12:45 PM

Once again - you know exactly what I'm trying to say.

Edgy DC Oct 03 2007 12:55 PM

I wish you'd frame it without bringing a firm-yet-irrational position of too many Met fans into it.

soupcan Oct 03 2007 01:32 PM

I'll keep that in mind going forward.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2007 11:22 AM

Hey, Tom, tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick.

TransMonk Oct 05 2007 03:25 PM

http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2007/10/05/glavine-declines-player-option/ Shocker.

Edgy DC Oct 05 2007 05:18 PM

Bam. Walked away from a $10 million payday.

bmfc1 Oct 05 2007 08:55 PM

I am neither devastated or disappointed that Glavine has declined his option.

Frayed Knot Oct 05 2007 09:17 PM

I've alwasy suspected that his option was more like a gentlemen's agreement between Tom & the Wilpons along the lines of, well if we still want each other at the end of the season here's the money we'll agree in advance to. That the option was his and not theirs was largely a formality of contract language I think. Thing was he had to decide by today and either he's not ready to do so or he's already decided to call it a career (which is what he hinted at since a year ago). He can still re-sign here if both sides agree of course. But declining now gives him time to check w/the family but also to see what's out there (read: Atlanta). I strongly suspect we've seen the last of him. Now the trick will be seeing if that ~$10mil can find us a replacement starter - not an easy task considering that the likes of Suppan, Meche, Lilly, etc not only landed more than that last year but got multi-year deals at those prices.

Grote15 Oct 05 2007 09:30 PM

Tom Glavine..Thank you! Ding dong the bitch is dead Ding Dong the wicked withch is dead hey Tom get your friggin shine box

Rockin' Doc Oct 05 2007 10:12 PM

I never really disliked Glavine, but I'm glad that he appears to have called it a career. He was a class act and he had a Hall of Fame worthy career, but he was no longer the pitcher he once was. It's a shame that his final few starts were so poor. I wish him wll, but unlike two months ago when I would have welcomed him back in 2008, I am now glad that it appears he has decided to call it a career.

Nymr83 Oct 08 2007 12:01 AM

i just read that he officialyl said "no" to the option and will receive the 3 million buyout.

Elster88 Oct 17 2007 08:08 PM

I think people are grossly underestimating how hard it is to get a pitcher to pitch 200 innings of average baseball a year. I'm disappointed that so many people here are being typical New York fans when it comes to Glavine. When Pedro misses his customary 8 starts at the same time that El Duque's arthritis flares up, 2008's Jose Lima/Brian Lawrence is going to be called up from AAA there's going to be much sadness. 200 innings of Glavine is worth more than 100 innings of El Duque when the extra 100 innings go to Lima. It's a concept Nymr for one will never understand, nor will the WFAN callers. But I believe it.

Edgy DC Oct 17 2007 08:26 PM

I have it on good authoriity that baseball played at league average productivity is worth zero.

Nymr83 Oct 17 2007 10:09 PM

the difference in innings between el duque and glavine was 53, not 100. i'd rather have 147 innings of el duque's production this year, 25 innings of pelfrey, 15 innings of humber, 5 innings of whoever the longman is and 8 extra innings on the good relievers than 200 innings of glavine, not to mention that glavine is unlikely to pitch even as well as he did this past year (96 ERA+) or as much as he did (200 innings) given his advanced age. this is not to say el duque is likely to pitch well again either, but he's under contract so whether or not to bring him back isn't nearly as much of a question. Glavine would have been paid what? 13 million? lets see who the Mets go out and get and THEN laud or criticize them for choosing that person (or people) over Glavine. EDIT- free agent starting pitchers (according to mlb4u.com- i dont purport that these are accurate) (divisions are mine and are for quick reference only, i dont pretend to have compared all the stats or anything) pretty good- Pettite, Garcia, Schilling not bad- Rogers, Wolf, Clemens, Chacon, Clement, Colon, Jennings, Maddux some hope- Fossum, Milton, Od.Perez, Redman, Rusch, D.Wells, Benson, Byrd, Fogg, L.Hernandez, Lopez, Mays, Ohka, Ru.Ortiz, Ponson, Tomko, Traschel, Wakefield, Weaver trash heap- Affeldt, Chen, Estes, Armas, Astacio, Elarton, Lawrence, Lohse, Miller, Moeller, Ra.Ortiz, Park, Sele, Thompson, Wasdin, K.Wells, V.Zambrano, J.Wright

metsmarathon Oct 18 2007 07:10 AM

glavine: 99 ER in 200.1 IP el duque: 61 ER in 147.2 IP pelfrey: 15 ER per 25 IP humber 13 ER per 15 IP sele: 3 ER per 5 IP heilman already pitched 86 innings, so lets give the other 8 to feliciano... feliciano: 3 ER per 8 IP total: 95 ER and a much less rested pen. of course, embedded in those numbers is that glavine bequeathed 20 runners to his bullpen, and 11 of those runners scored. el duque bequeathed 10 runners, and only 2 of them scored. given the same lavel of bullpen support, either duque would've given up 4 more earned runs, or glavine would've given up 7 fewer, drawing down the difference between the two pitchers to a pick'em.

Edgy DC Oct 18 2007 07:23 AM

Now we just have to find another Orlando Hernandez.

metirish Oct 18 2007 07:27 AM

Livan is a fee agent.

Nymr83 Oct 18 2007 10:11 AM

again, i'm not saying that duque can repeat his performance or even that we'll someone who can. i'm just saying i'd rather have 150 innings of 3.72 than 200 innings of 4.46. a couple of more points: -this isn't "costing" the bullpen mush rest- most of these innings would go to spot starters called up from AAA or to the longman, the longman isnt usually overtaxed anyway and i couldn't care less about the toll on the AAA pitching staff (and neither should any MLB team trying to win) -the league ERA is 4.26, the mets are loaded with $$, the mets can find better spot starters than the crap they paraded out there this year, guys who can pitch in the 4.26-4.51 range for a few spot starts. its on Minaya to make sure this team has better quality pitching depth.

Edgy DC Oct 18 2007 10:27 AM

Well, we might need Duque plus Duque. But Pedro may be Pedro. Right now, the rotation is Pedro-Duque-Maine-Perez-Pelfrey. I can go forward with that, but we're going to need backup. I imagine the backup is going to be some Chan Ho characters for the short term and Humber for the long term. I certainly don't advocate 13 big ones on Glavine and I'm glad we're off the hook for that. Nor do I advocate shutting the door.