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First off. . .the coaching staff

Mex17 Oct 01 2007 04:08 AM

I DO NOT think that Willie should be fired. Like Omar said, you have to take into account the past three years of work and not just the last year or the last two weeks (I think that they should be watching him a little closer over the next year or two while also keeping an eye from afar on Acta as a possible replacement in 2009 or 2010, but that is a matter for another time). That said, I do think that changes need to be made on his staff. . .changes that need to be made by Omar with or without Willies input or stamp of approval. Let's begin. BENCH COACH: Jerry Manuel is probably a good baseball man and he can still probably help out as an advance scout, but I think that Willie, in spite of what he thinks, needs a guy in there with more of an NL mindset who can suggest when to put a little "small ball" (hit and runs, squeeze plays) into the equation. Perhaps this coach needs also to have a more exuberant personality to counteract Willie's more stoic nature. Am I nuts or does this profile describe Gary Carter? BULLPEN COACH: Billy Wagner exposed something. There needs to be some sort of better communication between the bullpen and Willie/Peterson. I think that Peterson is too valuable to replace (Wagner even said in his interview with New York magazine that he is great with mechanics). I think that there needs to be perhaps a player's advocate as bullpen coach, a guy who has done the job who can relate to the pitchers on their level and can effectively serve as a conduit between them and the manager/pitching coach. I think that it's time to bring John Franco out of exile. 1ST BASE COACH: As we all know there are "two" Ricky Henderson's. There is Ricky the first-ballot Hall of Famer/best leadoff hitter of all time and there is Ricky the self-absorbed clubhouse cancer. Which one of these two arrived mid-season? More importantly, which one of these two is whispering in the ear of Jose Reyes? Omar needs to find out.

Edgy DC Oct 01 2007 05:46 AM

I don't think keeping an eye on a manager employed by another big-league team is a good long-term plan.

smg58 Oct 01 2007 06:15 AM

I'm 50/50 at best on Randolph. He has to take some responsibility for this, even if Glavine shouldn't need Willie to find his way through the first inning. I'd need evidence that Rickey is leading Reyes astray before I acted on that. I think if Reyes really did stop caring, which it certainly looked like at times, that is ultimately the manager's responsibility.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 01 2007 07:52 AM

Wagner, who's a loudmouth redneck punk and just as guilty as anyone for this debacle, threw Peterson and Randolph under the bus in that interview, despite whatever spin he tried putting on it. When players show a lack of respect for the coaching staff and manager is when they get fired (or players get traded, which we unfortunately won't be able to do in Wagner's case).

sharpie Oct 01 2007 07:52 AM

I can't imagine them keeping Rickey Henderson. My guess is that he's the first to go. Then maybe that bullpen coach.

metirish Oct 01 2007 07:55 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 01 2007 07:55 AM

Guy Conti the bullpen coach is like a father to Pedro, so I think that might factor into any decision Minaya makes on that.

Edgy DC Oct 01 2007 07:55 AM

Guy Conti is nobody's scapegoat. Replacing him with John Franco would be a whitewash, I think.

Iubitul Oct 01 2007 08:10 AM

I think it would be a step back - I want John Franco nowhere near this organization.

seawolf17 Oct 01 2007 08:15 AM

Gone, gone, gone. See ya, fellas. They might keep Conti around for Pedro, but I don't like the idea one bit. This isn't Pedro's team.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 01 2007 08:19 AM

If Willie is around then let him choose a bench coach at least. That stuff posted by FK re: Jamarillo seems to make sense as a hitting coach. If it comes out there are serious issues with randolph beyond Wagner's chatter, then maybe we do go get Bobby V again.

Farmer Ted Oct 01 2007 08:20 AM

Conti is God.

Vic Sage Oct 01 2007 08:42 AM

Phuck Conti. Phuck the coaching staff.

Valadius Oct 01 2007 08:47 AM

Our bullpen sucked. Conti's gotta be on the hot seat.

Edgy DC Oct 01 2007 09:39 AM

Whitewash.

metsguyinmichigan Oct 01 2007 11:16 AM

Does the bullpen coach have an actual job besides picking up a ringing phone and saying, "Sosa, Willie says get ready?" What else could he possibly do besides feed the tomato plants? Everything to do with pitching is Peterson's job.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 01 2007 11:18 AM

The Mets broadcasters did an interesting in-game interview with Conti during the 2006 season in which he explained what it is he does. Unfortunately, I don't remember anything that he said! (But I do remember that it was interesting.)

Edgy DC Oct 01 2007 11:28 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Oct 01 2007 05:04 PM

Yup. He keeps track of every routine each pitcher has --- some start getting loose by long toss, others by stretching; some need four pitches, some 20 --- and he has them timed by stopwatch so Peterson and Randolph (and the catcher if necessary) know exactly how much time they need from the moment the phone rings. He also charts their warmup pitches, just as actual pitches are charted. At the end of the game, he tosses a baseball to Farmer Ted and myself. The guy works very hard.

Farmer Ted Oct 01 2007 03:15 PM

Guy Conti, more than a bullpen coach. This Guy can coach anything. "Guy Conti for his service as a faculty member and three-sport coach in the 1970s and 1980s. As head men’s basketball coach, he compiled 140 victories with a 59 percent winning mark, third best in school history. Led the squad to nationals and a 24-5 record in 1975-76. Edinboro University's Coach of the Year in 1982. His teams earned five PSAC playoff berths."

metirish Oct 01 2007 04:55 PM

My sources are telling me that Conti will remain in his job.

Valadius Oct 04 2007 10:47 AM

The Daily News is reporting that Rick Peterson will likely be kept on.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2007 10:51 AM

I think they should keep Peterson, although I have to admit I got really tired of him during September. I got so sick of seeing him come to the mound and put his right hand on the pitcher's left shoulder. When he did it for Humber I was expecting the next pitch to be a home run because we had seen that result twice in the previous week or so. With Humber, though, it wasn't the first pitch, it was the third or fourth pitch. I think Peterson is the smart guy who gets a pass for this collapse. Randolph is the mediocrity whose head should have rolled.

Iubitul Oct 04 2007 11:50 AM

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I think Peterson is the smart guy who gets a pass for this collapse. Randolph is the mediocrity whose head should have rolled. I agree with this - Who would you have wanted as the next manager?

TransMonk Oct 04 2007 12:03 PM

Since we have a thread open: I've never liked Jerry Manuel. I think he was a crappy manager with the White Sox and has even less of an idea about NL baseball than Willie does. His inablity to play effective small-ball in tight situations embarrassed the 2000 White Sox in the DS sweep at the hands of the Mariners helmed by Pinella who capitalized on Manuel's weaknesses. http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2000_ALDS2.shtml I would not be sad to see him go.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2007 12:10 PM

Iubitul wrote: ="Yancy Street Gang"]I think Peterson is the smart guy who gets a pass for this collapse. Randolph is the mediocrity whose head should have rolled. I agree with this - Who would you have wanted as the next manager? I don't know! I've said previously that I'd like them to get a smart guy. I consider Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine to be the two managers that the Mets have had who were smart. Either of those two would be welcome, but I'm sure there are others, either inside or outside the organization.

metirish Oct 04 2007 12:19 PM

If Tony LaRussa became available would you want him?

Edgy DC Oct 04 2007 12:21 PM

Very no.

sharpie Oct 04 2007 12:36 PM

Very no for me too. Also, frankly, wouldn't be too excited to have Davey Johnson or Bobby Valentine back, although they were both fine managers while here. Davey has had perennial front office problems and there's no reason to think that that wouldn't continue, plus he's been out of the game for a while now. Bobby's "I'm the smartest guy in the room" thing might wear on a team one year removed from the playoffs. Bobby took over a bad team, not so sure how he would do with a successful one. Find someone new if Willie goes, which it appears he won't.

Valadius Oct 04 2007 01:03 PM

I think there would be no way for Bobby V and The Jacket to co-exist. They both think they're the smartest guy in the room.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2007 01:06 PM

There I disagree. Johnson's boss problems were with ownership in Cincy, Baltimore, and LA that didn't get along with anybody. If I had a concern with him, it would be that various aspects of the job had passed him by, and that he wouldn't be as tuned in to the development pipeline as he was in the early days of his Mets tenure. Valentine's team was turning around before he took over. My concern with him is that japan lets him play the role of celebrity wheher or not his team is in first, while New Yorkers would resent that. Mostly, I like that they both have a history as motivators.

TransMonk Oct 04 2007 01:11 PM

I'd invite Bobby back to manage in a heartbeat.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2007 01:14 PM

metirish wrote: If Tony LaRussa became available would you want him? I get the impression that Tony LaRussa is smart just like Mike Francesa is smart. Which means he's only smart enough to convince gullible people that he's smarter than he is. I'd pass on Tony.

sharpie Oct 04 2007 01:24 PM

]Valentine's team was turning around before he took over. How? They were 59-72 when Bobby took over on the way to a 71-91 finish in a season where Lance Johnson, Bernard Gilkey and Todd Hundley all had career years. Bobby certainly developed Edgardo Alfonzo and Bobby Jones into good major league players, but the rest of the '96 Mets, other than John Franco and Rey Ordonez, were quickly turned over in the Bobby V era. I think he's a great manager for a developing team and there aren't many better x's and o's guys out there but I question his effectiveness on a veteran team, which, like it or not, the Mets are going to be next season.

Edgy DC Oct 04 2007 01:44 PM

Nothing really. Just my impression. Not that I'm arguing that Green would have taken them as far as Valentine. But neither am I sure that (1) this team is or will be too veteran for Valentine, or (2) he doesn't particularly succeed with veterans.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2007 01:47 PM

He's succeeded with veterans. The 1999 team had Piazza, Ventura, Olerud, Henderson, Leiter, Reed, and Franco, just to list a few off the top of my head.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2007 01:51 PM

I always felt like after they got Piazza, it was all about managing the guys Phillips provided for him. I think Valentine might excel in a bygone era where field mansagers could also be general managers.

sharpie Oct 04 2007 01:51 PM

Granted there were veterans on the '99-'00 team, but these Mets have succeeded as a team without him, unlike those Mets. Not to say that he couldn't manage this team, I would just rather see new blood. Offa toppa my head I can't remember a successful second stint for a manager with any team.

Benjamin Grimm Oct 04 2007 02:00 PM

Well, the reason I brought up Johnson and Valentine isn't because I think they should be the top choices, but because they're the only smart guys I know of who are available. If it was my job to look for a new manager for a ballclub, I'm sure I'd become aware of a bunch of similarly qualified candidates. I could rattle off some names of guys who've recently managed in the Mets farm system, like Oberkfell and Teufel and whoever. They may or may not be great candidates; I have no idea. Davey Johnson and Bobby Valentine are the types of candidates I'd like to see. It doesn't have to be the two of them specifically. In fact, I'd probably prefer somebody closer to his 45th birthday than to his 60th.

Mex17 Oct 04 2007 02:17 PM

Johnny Dickshot wrote: I always felt like after they got Piazza, it was all about managing the guys Phillips provided for him. I think Valentine might excel in a bygone era where field mansagers could also be general managers. Who says this needs to be "bygone". I am NOT rooting for Omar to be gone after 2008 but if he is, I would consider Valentine as the third candidate (along with Bernazard and Jocketty) to get the keys next.

metirish Oct 04 2007 02:20 PM

Bernazard seems to be part of the problem right now, having the ear of all the latin players, hanging out in the clubhouse and pissing off the manager, at least that's what's been in the papers.

Johnny Dickshot Oct 04 2007 02:23 PM

Not saying it couldn't happen but I don't think in today's world you want your field manager haggling with the agents and players he has to supervise everyday, and/or plotting to trade them away, etc. etc. That mighta worked better before the players all started out-earning the managers and had some say over the directions of their careers.

G-Fafif Oct 04 2007 03:38 PM

Discussing the prospects for Randolph with a friend at the disheartening loss to the Cardinals last week (as opposed to all the other disheartening losses), he opined that Willie would never try Kevin Mitchell at short or bat Benny Agbayani leadoff. On the train home that night, I passed an Old Navy just past the Jamaica station. It had two lights out, which allowed it to read: O D AVY

Edgy DC Oct 04 2007 05:11 PM

Well Randolph did start Julio Franco at third, stick to his guns on making Wright hit his way up the lineup, keep Lo Duca in the two holes, and... ...you're looking for non-obvious moves that worked, right?

metirish Oct 04 2007 05:38 PM

Is Davey Johnson still on the long finger as far as the Mets are concerned, is he even welcome at Shea?

Edgy DC Oct 04 2007 05:55 PM

Now you're just making up dialectical expressions.

Frayed Knot Oct 04 2007 06:14 PM

G-Fafif wrote: Discussing the prospects for Randolph with a friend at the disheartening loss to the Cardinals last week, he opined that Willie would never try Kevin Mitchell at short or bat Benny Agbayani leadoff. That's essentially my complaint about Willie also. I don't think he's a bad manager - just not a very imaginitive one. Dreaming of that manager where you agree with every in-game call is like believing in that backup quarterback who'll never throws an interception, and cries of 'can't mismanae the bullpen' are usually code for: we need better pitchers out there. So fans who think those problems are going to be solved by replacing him are likely in for a rude awakening. But I do find Willie less likely to 'think outside the box', as the saying goes, which perhaps makes him more predictable to manage against. ]Is Davey Johnson still on the long finger as far as the Mets are concerned I wish you came with subtitles sometimes.

metirish Oct 04 2007 07:03 PM

Sorry guys, from what I have read over the years Davey seems to be a part of Mets history that current management seems to be somewhat ashamed off(maybe that's the wrong word), he's there but lets keep him at arms length or on the long finger. Anyway I know he was invited back last year but didn't accept or couldn't come, so maybe I am all wrong.

User 362 Oct 05 2007 08:51 AM Re: First off. . .the coaching staff

Mex17 wrote: BULLPEN COACH: Billy Wagner exposed something. There needs to be some sort of better communication between the bullpen and Willie/Peterson. I think that Peterson is too valuable to replace (Wagner even said in his interview with New York magazine that he is great with mechanics). I think that there needs to be perhaps a player's advocate as bullpen coach, a guy who has done the job who can relate to the pitchers on their level and can effectively serve as a conduit between them and the manager/pitching coach. I think that it's time to bring John Franco out of exile. What good is good mechanics if a pitcher can't get batters out.

Vic Sage Oct 05 2007 09:07 AM

well, if we had good mechanics in the bullpen, maybe we would be able to get that little cart running again, and relievers could be driven in from the pen. That way, they wouldn't be tired before they even through their first pitch. Don't underestimate the value of a good mechanic.

Rockin' Doc Oct 05 2007 12:24 PM

I really miss the old bullpen carts. An old picture of the Mets bullpen cart.

Valadius Oct 15 2007 07:08 AM

According to the Daily News, the Mets are waiting for Rudy Jaramillo's contract with Texas to expire at the end of the month before finalizing the coaching staff for next year.

metirish Oct 15 2007 07:18 AM

Here's that bit, Henderson is out. ] DENVER - Mets brass won't finalize Willie Randolph's staff until Texas hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo's contact expires at the end of the month and he can be pursued. But the Mets' 2007 coaches are largely expected to return, with the exception of Rickey Henderson, who was viewed as an interim hire once Rick Down was fired at the All-Star break. Jaramillo was a finalist for the Mets' managerial job that went to Randolph. That would raise eyebrows considering the organization let Randolph squirm for 48 hours before confirming he'd return for a fourth season as skipper. But those who know Jaramillo believe he's content as a hitting coach and doesn't have managerial ambitions now. Jaramillo is taking his hitting-coach responsibilities with Texas seriously, too. With his contract not set to expire until Oct. 31, Jaramillo just flew to Arizona to work with Rangers minor leaguers. If Jaramillo, the Rangers' hitting coach for 13 seasons, did join the Mets, Howard Johnson - who was named hitting coach when Down was axed - would figure to return as first base coach. Jaramillo has a long-standing relationship with Mets GM Omar Minaya. When Jaramillo managed in the Single-A Gulf Coast League in 1985 and '86, Minaya was a coach on his staff.

Edgy DC Oct 15 2007 07:20 AM

It kind of burns me that they'd go through tthe second half of 2007 with a coach on staff they don't really take seriously.

metirish Oct 15 2007 07:26 AM

Yeah good point edgy, and after all the raving about Henderson Omar used to do before he hired him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Oct 15 2007 07:28 AM

Not for nothing, but with only a tiny window of perspective seems like "twisting in the wind for 48 hours" and retaining your job seems a very small price to pay for such a monumental collapse, especially when compared to what's happening to other manager in town.

Edgy DC Oct 15 2007 07:32 AM

I'll buy that.

Edgy DC Oct 15 2007 07:37 AM

Covering the presidency and covering the pope is a deathwatch. Yeah, they decipher official pronouncements and report on them, but they don't get to sniff around for any dramatic breaking stories except health crises. Similarly, the real story when covering a manager --- even when it isn't --- is where he is relative to the axe.

Valadius Oct 24 2007 07:03 AM

The Mets are sticking with HoJo as hitting coach, and are only going to replace Rickey on the coaching staff. [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/10/24/2007-10-24_mets_set_to_pass_on_rangers_rudy_jaramil-1.html[/url]

Edgy DC Oct 24 2007 07:12 AM

]"It wouldn't be fair to HoJo, who did an outstanding job as hitting coach. If you look at the numbers, everything in the second half of the year we were up in." Talk to Reyes.

metirish Oct 25 2007 08:02 AM

Here is the Davidoff article that Edgy mentioned in another thread. [url=http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spinsider255430780oct25,0,7579304.column]Rudy Jaramillo[/url] So Minaya wouldn't hire a coach that could potentially make the team better because he didn't want to upset Randolph?, doesn't make sense to me.

Edgy DC Oct 25 2007 08:13 AM

I think it makes sense, but I don't agree with it.