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I don't like this rule

Frayed Knot Oct 08 2007 04:48 PM

A rule new to this season allows an injured player to be replaced [u:adec6baf5e]within the same post-season series[/u:adec6baf5e] instead of the previous way of having to wait until between rounds if your team advanced. The Yanx have taken advantage of this to (after last night's stellar performance) remove Clemens and add Ron Villone for the remaining two games against Cleveland. My problem with it is that it's too easy to manipulate. A back-end pitcher or a one-time starter can simply be discarded for a similar replacement after he's used; same with one bench player for another if you see that the two remaining scheduled pitchers for the other side are both lefties. I don't know whether the Yanx are manipulating things in this case, but since the league can never prove that a player is NOT injured there's no real way to oversee whether it was actually neccesary or sneaky and strategic. Now there is a downside to it in that the "injured" player is then not eligible for the [u:adec6baf5e]next[/u:adec6baf5e] series also - so even if the Yanx do advance Rajah could not pitch against Boston (although could still return for the WS). But it still allows for a desperate move just to get to the next series whether it was really neccesary or not.

metsmarathon Oct 08 2007 05:02 PM

while i understand the ease with which it can be manipulated, i still like it. mind you, i'd like it better if it made the player ineligible for the entire remainder of the postseason, but if you have a player go down in the first game, you should be allowed to replace him and not be forced to play shorthanded for the remainder of the series.

Nymr83 Oct 08 2007 05:19 PM

i agree with marathon, the rule is good but i'd like it better if the guy was done for the entire postseason... how does this rule work in the WS though? it seems like unlimited replacements with no downside

duan Oct 08 2007 05:24 PM

when you're hoping that Ron Villone is going to be some kind of bullpen saviour over TWO games you know you're in trouble one way or the other

MFS62 Oct 08 2007 05:30 PM

And somewhere, Charlie Finley is smiling. Later

Frayed Knot Oct 08 2007 05:40 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ... how does this rule work in the WS though? it seems like unlimited replacements with no downside Egg-Zacktly

vtmet Oct 08 2007 06:16 PM

This rule should not apply to starting pitchers AFTER the starting pitcher pitches...I can possibly understand a position player or a reliever...but once a starter has pitched, he isn't going to be pitching again in that series anyhow...might be a little different, if the injury occured PRIOR to the start KEEPING the said starter from taking the mound...and besides, Clemens isn't hurt, he's just old and useless...

metsguyinmichigan Oct 08 2007 06:48 PM

MFS62 wrote: And somewhere, Charlie Finley is smiling. Later And it flies over the heads of the kids... Finley, of course claimed that Mike Andrews were injured after a poor performance early in the 1973 series. Andrews, however, said he was just fine, and it became kind of a scandal. Andrews even got a standing O during one of the games at Shea.

Nymr83 Oct 08 2007 07:19 PM

vtmet wrote: This rule should not apply to starting pitchers AFTER the starting pitcher pitches...I can possibly understand a position player or a reliever...but once a starter has pitched, he isn't going to be pitching again in that series anyhow...might be a little different, if the injury occured PRIOR to the start KEEPING the said starter from taking the mound...and besides, Clemens isn't hurt, he's just old and useless... thats a good point, i'd amend the rule to exclude "a player who was the starting pitcher in a previous game"

Edgy DC Oct 08 2007 07:23 PM

Well, then you're just piling exceptions upon exceptions, and it's like writing the tax code. Meanwhile, you're winking at the loophole-lubbers that it's OK to falsely disable a pitcher two nights after he's pitched. What applies to pitchers applies to hitters.

Nymr83 Oct 08 2007 07:33 PM

then make the rule "you can replace for injury (or even for any reason) a player who has not yet appeared in the series" that would still be better than the rule that existed before

metsguyinmichigan Oct 08 2007 07:38 PM

accidental double post...sorry about that...

metirish Oct 08 2007 07:58 PM

duan wrote: when you're hoping that Ron Villone is going to be some kind of bullpen saviour over TWO games you know you're in trouble one way or the other I'm with the Dub.

Frayed Knot Oct 08 2007 09:10 PM

Nymr83 wrote: then make the rule "you can replace for injury (or even for any reason) a player who has not yet appeared in the series" Which will take care of all those guys who hurt themselves getting off the bus I suppose. And even those who appear in a game can sometimes affect it by being threats off the bench or out of the pen and forcing a strategy from the other side. Not that I want to make a big deal out of this -- it's just that during the first opportunity to use it a team does just that for what may or may not be a legit reason and I suspect it won't be the last time.

vtmet Oct 09 2007 07:26 PM

General Manager Mark Shapiro called the commissioner's office Monday after the Yankees dropped Roger Clemens from their AL Division roster and replaced him with left-hander Ron Villone. Clemens strained his left hamstring Sunday night in Game 3. "I don't think that was the intent of the rule, but it is within the rule," Shapiro said. The problem Shapiro has is that Clemens started Game 3 and was unlikely to pitch again in the series. Villone, however, not only could help a tired Yankees bullpen, but gives them a lefty to counter the Tribe's left-handed hitters. They opened the series with no lefty reliever. "The rule is meant to give a team a chance to replace a key position player or reliever in case of injury," Shapiro said. "It wasn't meant to replace a starting pitcher. I'm not upset by this, I don't think it's going to make a difference in the series, but it's probably something that needs to be reviewed." [url]http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/119191880427050.xml&coll=2[/url]

metirish Oct 09 2007 07:48 PM

I've seen Shapiro interviewed a few times over the last week and he seems a very smart person, actually wanted to hear what he had to say. Why is his name pronounced Sha-pie-ro and not Shapiro as in Robert Shapiro.

HahnSolo Oct 10 2007 07:47 AM

Following Game 3 of last year's NLCS, the Mets may have taken advantage of this rule (had it been available to them) to rid themselves of Trachsel. Now Trax would have been ineligible for the WS, but he was hurt (supposedly) and Willie had lost all faith in him anyway. They could have added some bullpen help (R. Hernandez?) or activated El Duque if he was healthy. Either way I think it would have worked to the Mets benefit.

Frayed Knot Oct 10 2007 07:54 AM

btw, Shapiro's sister is married to NYJ coach Mangini.