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Yorvit. Yorvit all to hell!

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 13 2007 08:38 PM

]November 14, 2007 Mets Set to Make Torrealba an Offer He Can’t Refuse By BEN SHPIGEL The last time the Mets needed a starting catcher, after the 2005 season, they went hard after the top two free agents, Ramón Hernández and Bengie Molina. General Manager Omar Minaya visited both players the first day he could and soon offered what the team believed were generous three-year contracts. Almost attached, however, was this caveat: If you take too long to decide, the Mets would move on. That led the Mets to trade for Paul Lo Duca. Two years later, they seem inclined to use the same strategy to obtain his potential replacement. The Mets are interested in the free-agent catcher Yorvit Torrealba and are willing to make him an offer they do not expect him to refuse. But if he does, or if he dawdles, the Mets will have no problem proceeding with backup plans to plug their catching vacancy. The Mets have zeroed in on Torrealba, who played for the National League champion Colorado Rockies, and should offer him a multiyear deal worth perhaps as much as $5 million annually, which would be a hefty raise from the $1.075 million he was paid last season. The Rockies remain interested in retaining Torrealba — the Florida Marlins are suitors, too — but have reportedly capped their offer at $7 million for two years and would not match what the Mets would give him. Torrealba, 29, broke into the majors in 2001 with the San Francisco Giants and was given a chance to be the full-time catcher with Colorado in 2006. But he missed the first two months of the season after straining his right shoulder. Healthy in 2007, Torrealba posted career highs in nearly every offensive category, batting .255 with 8 home runs and driving in 47 runs in 113 games. As Colorado stampeded to 21 victories in 22 games and a berth in the World Series, Torrealba helped lead the charge, batting .320 in the first two rounds of the postseason and blasted the go-ahead three-run homer in Game 3 of the National League Championship Series against Arizona. He stumbled in the Series, going 2 for 14 in Boston’s four-game sweep. He excels at blocking balls. During the postseason Colorado pitchers raved about his ability to call a game, crediting him for guiding them past a potent Philadelphia team in the opening round. The Mets’ pitchers were just as complimentary of Lo Duca, too, but he will turn 35 in April and the team is looking to bring in someone younger behind the plate. Still, Torrealba is hardly an ideal fit. His offensive performance was dramatically better at Coors Field, where he hit .292, posted an on-base percentage of .353 and slugged .424, compared with what it was on the road, where he batted .212 with a .292 on-base percentage and a .326 slugging mark. The Mets, however, would not be improving their ability to throw out potential base-stealers. Torrealba ranked 21st among 29 qualifying catchers, according to Stats LLC, throwing out 17.6 percent (13 of 74). Lo Duca ranked a notch above him at 19.1 percent (17 of 89). If Torrealba signs elsewhere — or waits too long to choose — the Mets have been working to identify other options. They could turn to Baltimore, where they could possibly acquire Hernández and reunite him with Rick Peterson, his former pitching coach at Oakland. The Rangers, should they want to relieve their catching logjam by dealing Gerald Laird, may find an interested target in the Mets. The Diamondbacks’ young catcher Miguel Montero could be a possibility, too. The Mets may find that they could even expand those potential deals to add help at second base or in the bullpen. Under Minaya, the Mets have shown a penchant for working quickly in the off-season. In 2005, they traded for Xavier Nady, Carlos Delgado and Lo Duca and signed Billy Wagner before the winter meetings started in early December. By the same time last season, they had re-signed José Valentín and Orlando Hernández, signed Moises Alou and Damion Easley and completed four-player deals with San Diego and Florida. The Mets have not added any new players yet, but in their recent history, they have not waited around too long.

metirish Nov 13 2007 09:06 PM

Newsdy reporting that this should be done in the next few days, I guess there's not much out there to be had.

Nymr83 Nov 13 2007 09:09 PM

Unless he is great defensively Torrealba is a downgrade from either LoDuca or Castro.

Edgy DC Nov 13 2007 09:20 PM

LoDuca set to replace Piazza in Oakland.

Nymr83 Nov 13 2007 09:21 PM

can we have piazza back?

martin Nov 14 2007 02:10 AM

i dont understand this unless yorvit is being signed as castro's backup. what does castro have to do to win a starting job? 11 HR in 144 AB last year. 31 years old, experienced, rumored to handle the pitchers well, what more can we ask for?

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 05:54 AM

A few things Castro can do is (1) stop getting hurt, (2) reveal a career batting average over .237, and (3) throw out folks at a higher rate than the Piazzariffic perecentage he had last year. 'Til then, he's the backup quarterback, his rep benefitting from never throwing a game-turning interception.

martin Nov 14 2007 06:08 AM

he did reveal a new batting average last year, .285 torrealba hit .255 last year and his career average is .251 i can see castro staying a backup behind an all-star, but torrealba? i think castro has earned a shot.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 14 2007 06:35 AM

Castro's health makes him unreliable. It'd be very foolish to expect him to be a No. 1 guy.

Fman99 Nov 14 2007 06:45 AM

martin wrote: he did reveal a new batting average last year, .285 torrealba hit .255 last year and his career average is .251 i can see castro staying a backup behind an all-star, but torrealba? i think castro has earned a shot. I agree. However Torreabla may be the greatest player in the history of MLB whose name was "Yorvit." Better than ol' Yorvit Uhmelmuhhay of the '33 Giants, that's right.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 14 2007 06:48 AM

Let's do what the Times article sez is a possibility and trade for this Miguel Montero fellow. He's 23, bats left and crushed the ball in the minors. 10 HRs last year in 200-some ABs. Sounds also like he could be a complement to a RH masher like Castro. Don't know what he brings behind the dish. But check this guy out! [url]http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/montemi01.shtml[/url]

metirish Nov 14 2007 06:55 AM

This bold move should shut Kevin Kernan up for a while.

sharpie Nov 14 2007 07:03 AM

Yorvit does have the chance to become the Mets' greatest player with a first name that beings with Y. Yorkis Perez is worried.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 07:10 AM

martin wrote: he did reveal a new batting average last year, .285 And his career numbers are still what they are. One thinga bout backup catchers is that they have their spots chosen for them, and don't perform under the daily wear and tear of starters. So a good season in select appearances isn't necessarily an indicator that he's the best man. martin wrote: i can see castro staying a backup behind an all-star, but torrealba? i think castro has earned a shot. I adovocated more time for him --- something like 50/50 or 60/40 --- from the moment he began backing up LoDuca. And I'll likely advocate him this year. But I don't want to go to into a season with him as our primary catcher. Certainly not this one. Playing Yorvit against righties and Castro against lefties? I'm all over that. But we'd still need a third pro in the system, because Castro gets hurt a lot.

martin Nov 14 2007 07:21 AM

i dunno how much i believe that some players are much more injury prone than others. it may be a factor, but i think it is overstated. i rmember when reyes was considered too fragile. and nobody thought magglio ordonez could stay on the field last season. i wouldnt be worried about castro much more than anyone else. although i guess he is a bit fat so there is that. but for non-old in-shape players, i think injuries are mostly random. someone should write a paper on it.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 07:42 AM

Well, he's (1) kind of old, (2) kind of fat, (3) kind of a catcher, and (4) dealing with back issues, which certainly do tend to recur. Nobody should go into a season with a backup at at catcher that they would feel uncomfortable playing fulltime, so signing JoeJessica certainly won't be curtains for Castro.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 14 2007 07:50 AM

It took me a minute to get the JoeJessica reference. Torrealba, by the way, means Tower Dawn. And that would be a good name for a racehorse, if Lo Duca wants to name a pony after the guy who replaces him.

smg58 Nov 14 2007 08:03 AM

Yorvit's dependably mediocre. He'll downgrade the offense.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 08:06 AM

Well (and I got confused when I adovocated a platoon), he's got a career line of .281 / .346 / .502 // .848 against lefties, so maybe he can complement this Miguel Montero fellow.

Centerfield Nov 14 2007 08:24 AM

Other than age, I don't see any advantage to him over LoDuca. I'd rather go short term to LoDuca rather than long-term to Torrealba.

smg58 Nov 14 2007 11:04 AM

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Let's do what the Times article sez is a possibility and trade for this Miguel Montero fellow. He's 23, bats left and crushed the ball in the minors. 10 HRs last year in 200-some ABs. Sounds also like he could be a complement to a RH masher like Castro. Don't know what he brings behind the dish. But check this guy out! [url]http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/montemi01.shtml[/url] He doesn't strike out a lot, and he's hit at every minor league level, so you'd have to think his average would improve with a steady stream of AB's. I like this option. And you could ask about Hudson (or even Alberto Callaspo) while you're at it.

G-Fafif Nov 14 2007 11:18 AM

Centerfield wrote: Other than age, I don't see any advantage to him over LoDuca. I'd rather go short term to LoDuca rather than long-term to Torrealba. Omar/Willie/somebody must really not want Lo Duca around. One senses the organization believes there is a fine line between fiery leader and reckless troublemaker (the gambling, the young ladies, the "they speak English", the ejections, the silence when asked if Willie was supporting his players properly). Less than five months ago they were campaigning to excess to get him on the All-Star team. Now they can't be bothered to look at him, going so far as to replace him with somebody who doesn't bring much more besides relative youth to the position. Whatever Yorvit Torrealba's strengths, they must really not want Paul Lo Duca around.

Valadius Nov 14 2007 11:48 AM

If we do sign Torrealba, I'd want to probably platoon him with Castro, considering his numbers away from Coors Field last year. I am encouraged, though, that he gets rave reviews from his pitchers.

metirish Nov 14 2007 11:49 AM

That's the thing though, can you pay a guy millions to platoon him, I think not.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 11:53 AM

Millions ain't what millions used to be.

metirish Nov 14 2007 11:54 AM

No they are not but I can't see him coming here to platoon.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 11:58 AM

I can't see them staying married to Yorvit if they acquire Montero to be a third option and he comes on strong.

smg58 Nov 14 2007 12:25 PM

I can't see them trading for Montero to be a third option. So I'm hoping Yorvit is really enamored with the school system in Denver.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 12:28 PM

Why not? They have no real prospects above Brooklyn, and he has an option year. If he comes on strong, the Mets can move Torrealba next year.

smg58 Nov 14 2007 12:54 PM

Edgy DC wrote: Why not? They have no real prospects above Brooklyn, and he has an option year. If he comes on strong, the Mets can move Torrealba next year. Montero was BA's #63 prospect last year, ahead of Humber and only three behind Gomez. His stock may have dropped a little over the season, but not as much as Humber's has. Arizona already has a high-level minor league outfielder with no place to put him, but they can use ML-ready pitching. Pelfrey might get Montero and a little bit more, but Humber won't be enough. Could you trade Pelfrey for somebody you'd put in New Orleans to start the year?

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 01:01 PM

Well, Humber is probably going to be in New Orleans to start the year. Gomez is more likely. I don't see how being a pretty good prospect means he's absolutely ready to sink or swim.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 14 2007 01:14 PM

Let's go Montero and Hudson in the same deal; I'll part with some prospects for that.

Valadius Nov 14 2007 01:20 PM

I'll trade Humber and Gomez for Montero and Hudson.

metirish Nov 14 2007 01:22 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Let's go Montero and Hudson in the same deal; I'll part with some prospects for that. Find a D-Backs message board and try and sell that deal.

Valadius Nov 14 2007 05:58 PM

From the AP: ]For Mets, lots of options, no decisions November 14, 2007 NEW YORK (AP) -- While pursuing Yorvit Torrealba and trying to re-sign Ramon Castro, the New York Mets still may want to keep Paul Lo Duca as their No. 1 catcher. It's just not clear how much they want him. "We have Plan A, Plan B, Plan C," general manager Omar Minaya said. "He is definitely in our radar. Where he is, I'd rather not comment on that." Now that free agents can sign with any team, Minaya is being guarded in his comments. He acknowledged meeting Monday with Jorge Posada before the catcher agreed to stay with the Yankees. "I thought that was going to be a long shot," Minaya said. "It was a good chance he was going back all along." Minaya also said the team has not spoken with free agent pitcher Tom Glavine. The Braves want the two-time Cy Young Award winner to return to Atlanta, where he first gained fame. "He seems to want to play," Minaya said. "At some point in time I'm pretty sure we're going to hear from him as far as what his plans are." If Glavine leaves New York, the Mets need to find another starting pitcher. While the free-agent market is thin, New York would pursue Johan Santana if the Minnesota Twins can't re-sign him and make him available. "We could be players in some of the pitching that might be traded this winter," Minaya said. New York also is interested in re-signing second baseman Luis Castillo. "Castillo is a guy that we said all we're talking to but I don't want to kind of say where," Minaya said. "I just don't want other clubs to kind of know who we're targeting or as far as the level of interest because that would put me at a disadvantage."

Gwreck Nov 14 2007 08:18 PM

G-Fafif wrote: Less than five months ago they were campaigning to excess to get him on the All-Star team. Now they can't be bothered to look at him, going so far as to replace him with somebody who doesn't bring much more besides relative youth to the position. While your point about them really not wanting him around may have merit, the fact that they were campaigning for him for the all-star team is less of a reflection on LoDuca personally, or his value to the team as a player than it is on the marketability of all-stars and the prestige of having several players from your team as starters.

G-Fafif Nov 14 2007 08:56 PM

Gwreck wrote: ="G-Fafif"]Less than five months ago they were campaigning to excess to get him on the All-Star team. Now they can't be bothered to look at him, going so far as to replace him with somebody who doesn't bring much more besides relative youth to the position. While your point about them really not wanting him around may have merit, the fact that they were campaigning for him for the all-star team is less of a reflection on LoDuca personally, or his value to the team as a player than it is on the marketability of all-stars and the prestige of having several players from your team as starters. Vote Lo Duca or Die, as it was known in certain circles, was over the top even for hometown shilling. The Mets, like every team, have been known to cajole votes for its players, but they really went out of their way for Lo Duca, which struck me as pretty small-town considering Beltran, Reyes and Wright were already going and Lo Duca had gone the year before (and wasn't having that fantastic a year this time around). If he's gone, it's been a slightly bizarre two-year marriage. But we can save that for the Memories of Paul Lo Duca thread when the need arises.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 14 2007 09:15 PM

Yeah, I found the whole Vote for LoDuca thing creepy and the kind of thing I wish the Mets were above. That said I don't believe they hate him now (well, Willie maybe for the whole You-can-tell-Willie-I-will-be-catching-Glavine's-300th*-no-matter-how-injured-I-happen-to-be thing) but I guarantee if he had a season more like 06 they'd happily overlook any and all slights. *Speaking of uncomfortably over the top celebrations.

Edgy DC Nov 14 2007 09:24 PM

My feelings about LoDuca are... complex.

Elster88 Nov 14 2007 10:14 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Yeah, I found the whole Vote for LoDuca thing creepy and the kind of thing I wish the Mets were above. That said I don't believe they hate him now (well, Willie maybe for the whole You-can-tell-Willie-I-will-be-catching-Glavine's-300th*-no-matter-how-injured-I-happen-to-be thing) but I guarantee if he had a season more like 06 they'd happily overlook any and all slights. *Speaking of uncomfortably over the top celebrations. It was MLB being creepy though. It was going on at the parks and web sites for all the teams. Marketing and such I guess.

Elster88 Nov 14 2007 10:27 PM

Edgy DC wrote: My feelings about LoDuca are... complex. LoDuca can do that. He can inspire contrasting feelings in the same thread starter. Regarding the same topic even. [url]http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2828&highlight= [/url] [url]http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/3400/f1_t3461.shtml[/url]

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2007 10:13 AM

Yes, I fell in and out of like with Paul frequently. Isn't it weird though after the opening-day goof, and whatever play on May 24 that made me lose my shit, that he'd go on to make that 2 guys out at home play during the postseason? That after all my worrying about infrequent but important plays at the plate, we actually had a rare and important play at the plate in an important game? And that LoDuca made that one? Intreresting links!

Valadius Nov 15 2007 10:21 AM

]Mets sign Castro, Torrealba decision Thursday Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 7:26 am EST The New York Mets are close to finalizing their catching situation the New York Daily News reported. The Mets locked up No.2 catcher Ramon Castro Wednesday. The agent for Yorvit Torrealba of the Colorado Rockies said his client will decide whether to accept a New York offer today. The Castro deal is for $4 million the Daily News said. He must pass a physical before the contract becomes official. The agent for Torrelba, Mevlin Roman, may have provided the status of the negotiations when he told the Daily News: "All I can say is Omar (Minaya) and the Mets have done a tremendous job." The deal is rumored to be for at least three years guaranteed at $5 million per season. One executive from a rival suitor speculated the Mets' offer could cover 2011 and possibly have some provision for 2012. Source: New York Daily News

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 15 2007 10:30 AM

We should stop posting from these rip-off sites, or at least paste the source materials. These fucks are so lazy they make it seem like the Daily News mispelled the names of both Torrealba and his agent. Not to mention the headline is inaccurate. ="Valadius"] ]Mets sign Castro, Torrealba decision Thursday Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 7:26 am EST The New York Mets are close to finalizing their catching situation the New York Daily News reported. The Mets locked up No.2 catcher Ramon Castro Wednesday. The agent for Yorvit Torrealba of the Colorado Rockies said his client will decide whether to accept a New York offer today. The Castro deal is for $4 million the Daily News said. He must pass a physical before the contract becomes official. The agent for Torrelba, Mevlin Roman, may have provided the status of the negotiations when he told the Daily News: "All I can say is Omar (Minaya) and the Mets have done a tremendous job." The deal is rumored to be for at least three years guaranteed at $5 million per season. One executive from a rival suitor speculated the Mets' offer could cover 2011 and possibly have some provision for 2012. Source: New York Daily News

Nymr83 Nov 15 2007 10:34 AM

]One executive from a rival suitor speculated the Mets' offer could cover 2011 and possibly have some provision for 2012. WHAT???? fire minaya if thats true.

Edgy DC Nov 15 2007 10:36 AM

You want to fire your GM over an option year?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2007 10:51 AM

I don't object to four years plus an option. (Although three would be better.) As long as Yorvit is healthy and reasonably productive he should still be tradeable in 2010 or 2011 if the Mets have a better catcher handy. And if it turns out that he's the best guy they can get, either because of his performance or because of a lack of other options, at least the Mets would have him locked up for as much as much as five years.

Nymr83 Nov 15 2007 10:57 AM

he is just not good, i dont know why he'd get 4 years or even 3. is there another team offering him 5 million a year?

metirish Nov 15 2007 11:00 AM

From what I have read the Rockies were going two years at $7 million combined, apparently his agent will take the Mets offer back to them as a courtesy , I rather he not get four years too.

Edgy DC Nov 15 2007 11:02 AM

]he is just not good, i dont know why he'd get 4 years or even 3. is there another team offering him 5 million a year? We don't even know with any particular certainlty that the Mets are. You get exercised over some strange stuff.

HahnSolo Nov 15 2007 12:03 PM

Is there anyone, anywhere, who thinks the Torrealba signing is a good idea? If so, I haven't found him (well, except Omar).

Edgy DC Nov 15 2007 12:13 PM

Well, for one thing, it hasn't happened yet.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2007 12:39 PM

HahnSolo wrote: Is there anyone, anywhere, who thinks the Torrealba signing is a good idea? If so, I haven't found him (well, except Omar). Well, I'm not giddy over it, but it may turn out alright. I don't really know whether or not he'll be better than Lo Duca. And I don't know of any better options, unless that kid from Arizona is available.

Valadius Nov 15 2007 12:54 PM

Looks like it will be a two-year deal: ]Mets reportedly close to signing C Torrealba November 15, 2007 NEW YORK (TICKER) -- The New York Mets reportedly are close to a deal with free agent catcher Yorvit Torrealba, a move which would fill the team's hole behind the plate. Several media outlets reported early Thursday morning that the Mets are on the verge of inking Torrealba to a two-year contract worth $10 million. The Mets have not confirmed the deal, but Melvin Roman, Torrealba's agent, indicated to the New York Daily News that his client is close to agreeing to a deal. "All I can say is Omar (general manager Omar Minaya) and the Mets have done a tremendous job," Roman told the Daily News. A seven-year veteran, Torrealba batted .255 last season with career highs of eight homers and 47 RBI in 113 games with the Colorado Rockies. The 29-year-old Torrealba came up with several clutch hits this past postseason for the National League champion Rockies, batting .256 with a homer and nine RBI in 11 games. A native of Venezuela, Torrealba likely would be the starting catcher for the Mets in 2008, filling a void left by free agent Paul Lo Duca. New York's starting backstop for the past two seasons, Lo Duca often clashed with the local media and made negative headlines multiple times for off-field incidents, including a reportedly messy divorce lawsuit with his wife in August 2006. A Brooklyn native, the 35-year-old Lo Duca appeared in 119 games this past season while platooning with Ramon Castro, who also filed for free agency this month. But Castro apparently is ready to return to the Mets, as the Daily News also reported Thursday that the nine-year veteran agreed to a two-year deal worth $4 million. According to the newspaper, the Mets will not formally announce the deal until the 31-year-old Castro passes a physical.

Nymr83 Nov 15 2007 01:14 PM

]"All I can say is Omar (general manager Omar Minaya) and the Mets have done a tremendous job," Roman told the Daily News. Roman added that "they really gave my client more than he thought he'd get, more than any other team offered, it'll be a real privilege to take their money and hit .240 with 2 or 3 homers." (it doesnt take me long to find a new player to dislike, does it?)

Valadius Nov 15 2007 01:44 PM

Now I'm confused. ESPN is reporting it's a 3-year deal: ]Free-agent catcher Yorvit Torrealba will agree to a three-year contract with the New York Mets on Thursday, according to Torrealba's agent, Melvin Roman. Roman told 1050 ESPN New York that he expects to formalize the agreement with the Mets this afternoon. Roman declined to reveal how much the contract would be worth. GM Omar Minaya did not immediately return a message seeking comment. If Torrealba passes a physical, an announcement is expected in the next day or two. Newsday reported on its website that the contract will be worth $14.4 million over three years. Torrealba, 29, is expected to be the starter. Ramon Castro will remain the backup but will receive more playing time than he did when Paul Lo Duca was the Mets' starting catcher. Lo Duca is also a free agent. Last season, Torrealba hit .255 with eight homers and 47 RBIs for the NL champion Colorado Rockies. As a hitter, he showed a large disparity on the road as compared to Coors Field. Torrealba hit .296 with six homers and 34 RBIs in Denver, while he batted just .212 with two homers and 13 RBIs on the road. The Mets, though, are signing Torrealba mainly for his defense. Rockies pitchers gave Torrealba a lot of credit for how he called a game, though he did not have a high success rate when trying to throw runners out. Torrealba only caught 13-of-74 base-stealers, while the man he replaces, Lo Duca, nailed 17-of-89. Torrealba played in 113 games lasts season, by far his most as a major-leaguer. In his previous seven seasons, Torrealba had only topped 60 games three times, peaking a 66 in 2003 with the San Francisco Giants. The Rockies and Florida Marlins were believed to be the other two teams interested in Torrealba. The Mets' first choice to replace Lo Duca was Jorge Posada, but the New York Yankees never gave the Mets a chance to offer Posada any money. Just before open free agency began this week, the Yankees extended Posada a four-year, $52.4 million offer that he accepted. Whatever the case, it's pretty much a done deal. Say hello to our new starting catcher: We've got a big problem, though. His number is #8, and I'm thinking we might retire that sometime soon. Although, having a catcher wearing #8 can only be a good thing, right?

Benjamin Grimm Nov 15 2007 01:53 PM

Give him number 8. I don't think it ought to be retired.

Valadius Nov 15 2007 02:02 PM

His full name is Yorvit Adolfo Torrealba. The story on his name is this - his parents couldn't decide between the names Yorman and Victor, so they mashed them together to make Yorvit.

metsmarathon Nov 15 2007 10:07 PM

yorvit torrealba, 3.2 wins above replacement paul lo duca, 2.6 wins above replacement granted... yorvit torrealba, 6 win shares paul lo duca, 8 win shares so... who knows.

Nymr83 Nov 15 2007 10:31 PM

does one take ballpark into effect while the other doesnt? torrealba played in the best hitter's park in the league while shea is a pitcher's park

Edgy DC Nov 16 2007 05:54 AM

metsmarathon wrote: yorvit torrealba, 3.2 wins above replacement paul lo duca, 2.6 wins above replacement granted... yorvit torrealba, 6 win shares paul lo duca, 8 win shares so... who knows. Either one of those gaps sould have meant the division for the Mets. We just have to make sure we pick the right gap.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 16 2007 07:09 AM

Admittedly this is a stretch, but the best spin I could put on replacing LoDuca with Torrealba is to view their age-seasons alongside one another. LoDuca didn't have his real "breakout" 140 OPS+ until he was 29, and had a decent five-year run following that. Until that year, he'd been a part-timer and a minor leaguer. Torrealba will have his age 29 season (30 & 31 too) for us and while I can't come up with a good reason to expect his production will take a similar rise that LoDuca's did, in the event it does, he's ours. I will also say there is too much made of home/road splits at this point. He was better away in 2006, not that that means anything. Willie in today's Snooze damned the whole class with this feint praise: "There's not a lot of Johnny Benches out there."

metirish Nov 16 2007 07:19 AM

No Willie is less than impressed with the throwing ability of any available catchers.

Edgy DC Nov 16 2007 07:37 AM

Few catchers even get off the options ride until 27 these days.

Edgy DC Nov 16 2007 07:53 AM

Elster88 wrote: ="Edgy DC"]My feelings about LoDuca are... complex. LoDuca can do that. He can inspire contrasting feelings in the same thread starter. Regarding the same topic even. [url]http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2828&highlight= [/url] [url]http://www.getalifealready.com/cpf/archives/3400/f1_t3461.shtml[/url] Faith and Fear sums up the LoDucambiguity.

metsmarathon Nov 16 2007 08:23 AM

Nymr83 wrote: does one take ballpark into effect while the other doesnt? torrealba played in the best hitter's park in the league while shea is a pitcher's park warp is adjusted for season: ]Statistics that have been adjusted for a single season are the best stats to use when you are only interested in that one season. In these, adjustments have been made to account for the home park and for the offensive level of the league as a whole. Hitters have an adjustment for not having to face their own team's pitchers; pitchers have a similar adjustment for not having to face their own hitters. Hitters in the AL since 1973 have a disadvantage in these statistics, since the league average is artificially inflated by the use of the DH and no adjustment is made for that. win shares, i believe, needn't be, as they represent a portion of a team's overall wins/production. ]Win Shares is a very complicated statistic that takes all the contributions a player makes toward his team’s wins and distills them into a single number that represents the number of wins contributed to the team, times three.

duan Nov 16 2007 10:34 AM

there's been lots of whinging about Torreabla's arm, but before his shoulder problems at the start of this season, he'd thrown out nearly 40% of baserunners against him. I don't necessarily buy this whole great at calling and blocking stuff, however, I'm willing to imagine that there's actually more to it then sabremetrics might tell ya and if the greatest single item which influences the winning/losing of a game is the pitching then there is a value attributable to that. Not sure it'd make up for having Rey Ordonez in the lineup though.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 16 2007 10:48 AM

Wouldn't mind he provide a little of this:

Willets Point Nov 16 2007 10:53 AM

Is that an Artemis Fowl reference in the title?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 16 2007 11:28 AM

Charleton Heston.

RealityChuck Nov 16 2007 11:52 AM

Let's face it -- we're exchanging one mediocre catcher for another. Paul is a great guy and works hard, but his results last year were disappointing. If we were looking for a #2 hitter, then he'd be a better choice, but he wouldn't necessarily be a good one. Yes, it would have been nice to pick up a top-notch catcher, but there are none to be had. It's dumb to waste prospects on a catcher, especially since we need other positions more (and we don't have a lot of desirable prospects right now). So instead of an old mediocre catcher, we have a young mediocre catcher (who will almost certainly put up better numbers than LoDuca over the three years). But since the team is planning to bat the catcher in the 8 hole, offensive ability is not going to matter that much.

Edgy DC Nov 16 2007 11:59 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Nov 16 2007 12:07 PM

RealityChuck wrote: It's dumb to waste prospects on a catcher, especially since we need other positions more (and we don't have a lot of desirable prospects right now). Well, it depends on the prospects. As much as I'm a trade hater, it's worth noting that the two prospects we gave up for LoDuca, Dante Brinkley and Gaby Hernandez, haven't yet logged a single appearance between them above the AA level.

metsmarathon Nov 16 2007 12:00 PM

torrealba had a more better than his backup CERA than did lo duca. both had about the same CERA. CERA torrealba / iannetta -- 4.12 / 4.71 lo duca / castro -- 4.13 / 4.27 i don't know if that's worth anything... also, relative to his backup, opposing baserunners attempted fewer stolen bases against torrealba than lo duca. SBA/G torrealba / iannetta -- 0.71 / 0.74 lo duca / castro -- 0.82 / 0.79 but those are fairly slim differences there, i think....

Edgy DC Nov 16 2007 12:05 PM

The real question is whether his shoulder ailment is a permanent loss.

OlerudOwned Nov 16 2007 01:46 PM

I'm down with Yorman+Victor.

smg58 Nov 16 2007 02:35 PM

Giving Castro more AB's will probably make up the difference in offense, although it will also probably negate the advantage in defense. So it's a push. Given LoDuca's age, getting Yorvit is a safer bet to break even. But we'll only break even at second, too. Let's hope Omar finds a pitcher...

metirish Nov 16 2007 02:39 PM

Omar needs to get Micah Owings, he can hit and catch when he's not pitching.

MFS62 Nov 16 2007 04:09 PM

metirish wrote: Omar needs to get Micah Owings, he can hit and catch when he's not pitching. Does he sell tickets prior to, peddle beer during, and sweep out the stadium after, games? And then help little old ladies across the street on the way home? If so, he might be the next Derek Jeter. Later

Elster88 Nov 20 2007 04:15 PM

So this was called off right?

A Boy Named Seo Nov 20 2007 04:17 PM

Yes.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 29 2007 07:13 PM

Yorvit resigns with the Rockies for two years.

Edgy DC Nov 29 2007 08:09 PM

Strangely, "the News has learned" that Torrealba didn't fail any physical. They pitch that as a scoop without really saying what made the Mets pull out so abruptly. I guess they just sniffed the Mota-Estrada deal and fell out of love with Yorvit.

soupcan Nov 30 2007 08:03 AM

Edgy DC wrote: I guess they just sniffed the Mota-Estrada deal and fell out of love with Yorvit. Is what I'm thinking as well.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2007 09:18 AM

Snoozeday: ]The reason for the sudden collapse of Yorvit Torrealba's deal with the Mets has been a closely guarded secret the past two weeks. The team insisted that Torrealba failed a physical, but his agent, Melvin Roman, disputed that last night and said Torrealba might take legal action against the Mets for what he asserts is a fraudulent claim. "I'm disappointed how the whole situation was handled by them," Roman said. "Yorvit is 100 percent healthy. I'm talking to the Players Association and we're investigating where to go from here." Torrealba finalized a two-year contract worth a guaranteed $7.25 million yesterday to return to the Rockies, who apparently have no health concerns involving him. But the Mets scuttled their three-year, $14.4-million deal with Torrealba because of what the team said is a 50 percent tear of the rotator cuff. Roman said Torrealba was examined by the Rockies' team physician and orthopedist James Andrews, who did not find any sign of a tear. Torrealba's camp believes that general manager Omar Minaya changed his mind. Minaya had no comment.