Master Index of Archived Threads


Lastings Milledge for Ryan Church and Brian Schneider

My feeling about the Mets trading Lastings Milledge for Ryan Church and Brian Schneider is...

... one of love.	2 votes
... one of like.	7 votes
... one of neutrality.	1 votes
... one of dislike.	17 votes
... one of hate.	14 votes

Edgy DC Nov 30 2007 12:40 PM

How do you feel? Because I don't know, statistically.

Benjamin Grimm Nov 30 2007 12:47 PM

I was gonna vote "dislike" but "hate" is really more accurate. Church may turn out to be a decent contributor, like Nady. And Schneider is probably not much more or less sucky than most catchers around the majors. But I'd rather have kept Milledge to see what he could become. (Rather than having a divison rival have that opportunity.) And if Milledge were to be traded, I'd want it as part of a bigger and better package than this one. This may turn out okay or neutral for the Mets, but it's not a move that they should have made. It will be interesting to hear how Omar explains this. Actually, no it won't. I know what he's going to say. He'll praise all three players and spout typical claptrap.

Valadius Nov 30 2007 12:48 PM

I dislike it very much. I am very much confused by it. But I won't hate it until I see how the players perform on the field next year.

Edgy DC Nov 30 2007 01:06 PM

RealityChuck Nov 30 2007 01:21 PM

They should have tried to get more for Milledge. This seems like far too little.

iramets Nov 30 2007 01:34 PM

Kazmir. Bannister. Keppinger. I'm starting to think that maybe they're not the most astute judges of young talent, I really am.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2007 01:40 PM

Keppinger, Fleppinger. Gotay Okay.

seawolf17 Nov 30 2007 02:03 PM

iramets wrote: Kazmir. Bannister. Keppinger. I'm starting to think that maybe they're not the most astute judges of young talent, I really am. I hate agreeing with Sal. Although this only really resonates if they decide to trade Reyes.

iramets Nov 30 2007 02:06 PM

Yeah, Gotay's okay, but [url=http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/keppije01.shtml]Fleppinger[/url]'s ahead of okay. In the three seasons he's had about one complete year, and it's pretty damned impressive, especially given their ignoring consistently good minor league numbers and MLB #s when he was here. They keep on puling these challenge trades, starting pitcher for starting pitcher, second baseman for second baseman, now RFer for Rfer, and they're not really demonstrating that they have a clue what the fuck they're doing, do they?

Nymr83 Nov 30 2007 02:28 PM

i'm looking at this as Milledge and Estrada for Church and Schneider because with Castro's recent contract you have to assume Estrada is not going to be offered arb. now, this looks like a really dumb deal and i'm waiting to here omar's BS reasons for making it. I have to think the real reason is a dislike of milledge (his attitude, his work ethic, etc)

Nymr83 Nov 30 2007 02:28 PM Edited 7 time(s), most recently on Nov 30 2007 02:46 PM

MINAYA ON WFAN. (i'm paraphrasing here and there but not distorting the content) Mike: what is church's role? Minaya: everyday player. (cites counting stats) Mad dog: he only did that once Minaya:exciting to give him the chance Minaya:i think those numbers could improve, remember this was in a big ballpark in washington minaya: good numbers, (admits difference in age) but says church will produce better numbers with the opportunity to drive in runs Mike: why make mota deal if you're gonna do this? Minaya: fair to say it was a salary dump, gave us an option going forward Mike: why no loduca, any worries about torrealba lawsuit against you which was rumored? Minaya: no worries about that, we agreed with agent not to discuss the reason why it didnt work out. Dog: anything to do with the mitchell report? Minaya: no. Mike: loduca? Minaya: its about how we are building our team going forward...yadayada...about speed, defense, loduca did a good job, loduca better offensively than schnieder but schneider's defense is what we need. had nothing to do with loduca's off the field conduct. Minaya: we hadda change things up with how the season ended last year Minaya: the way the team is setup now i'm a big believer in being strong (defensively) up the middle Dog: get a big pitcher in trade? do you have enough prospects? Minaya: there are pitchers being shopped i cant named them, we're talking, clubs have interest in our players. pitchers like defense so they'll want to come here Mike: any problem with wagner's comments Minaya: talked to him, told him to watch what he says, says wagner was then pleased with omar's explanations Dog: do yank moves put pressure on you? Minaya: no. Minaya: we should have won more games last yeat, trade "changes things up some." "i like our team the way it is right now" only difference is we lost glavine and added pedro martinez (for a full year- haha) and church, we will hopefully work in the winter meetings, i do believe there'll be other pieces of this team. Mike: reyes untouchable? Minaya: reyes part of nucleus/core, one of best young players in game, not trading reyes. Dog: (question about milledge's stock) Minaya: hes been considered a big prospect, we have other big prospects, a couple of years ago if you told me we'd make this trade i'd be happy to get an outfielder who will produce and who we control for 4 years. "tough deal for me to make" "good baseball trade for both sides" -end interview-

Nymr83 Nov 30 2007 02:29 PM

who voted that they like it?

seawolf17 Nov 30 2007 02:29 PM

Apparently, Brian Schneider is a member of the Pool.

Fman99 Nov 30 2007 02:31 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Apparently, Brian Schneider is a member of the Pool. He's the Baby Ruth in the pool.

Edgy DC Nov 30 2007 02:38 PM

Who voted that they neutral it?

Vic Sage Nov 30 2007 02:40 PM

iramets wrote: Kazmir. Bannister. Keppinger. I'm starting to think that maybe they're not the most astute judges of young talent, I really am. lets not forget last year's deals with SD, giving up Ring and bell for Adkins and Johnson.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2007 02:40 PM

i voted i hate it. mike and the dog are done talking to minaya, i posted most of the interview in my post above, any comments?

smg58 Nov 30 2007 02:47 PM

I don't see Church as an everyday player, but he does hit righties very well. He wouldn't have been a bad guy to get for somebody other than Milldege, because now I'd have to label another righthanded bat as a need. That, and he doesn't have Milledge's upside. Schneider has less upside than Johnny Estrada. In fact, he may have less upside than me. I can't even see him getting more starts than Castro unless Castro breaks down. And we're committed to him for two years. LoDuca was at least average. Schneider won't be.

soupcan Nov 30 2007 02:50 PM

Dislike. Good transcript Namor.

metsguyinmichigan Nov 30 2007 03:33 PM

I voted that I dislike it, but I think we have to wait until spring training or even Opening Day before we know for sure. Too many pieces of the puzzle aren't in place yet. Gotta let the man work. Not finished yet.

iramets Nov 30 2007 03:54 PM

The whole puzzle is never in place. The man is always working on something. It's never finished. Yet eventually you have to stand in judgment. Your "eventually" may not have come, and may not arrive in my lifetime, but I think the facts speak for themselves. Speaking of which, btw, among Omar's words of wisdom with M & MD were his satisfied-sounding (but totally sickening) remark that the Mets were in first place almost all of last season. Yeah, put that one at the top of your resume, that's what you want people to remember about your 2007 team.

Nymr83 Nov 30 2007 04:21 PM

]Burger King Application Name: Minaya, Omar position you are seeking: General Manager Work Experience General Manager, Montreal Expos -traded Brandon Phillips, Grady Sizemore, and Cliff Lee for 17 starts by Bartolo Colon -traded Colon for el duque and 2 nobodies General Manager, New York Mets -managed large payroll -experience dealing with media -oversaw worst collapse in national league history in all seriousness though i'll judge him now for this BAD trade. if theres a bigger picture or something (say he turns church around for haren) i'll apologize then.

TransMonk Nov 30 2007 05:51 PM

I dislike, but not to the point where I hate. I would have liked to see Milledge as part of a bigger package, but don't think his value was that high.

metirish Nov 30 2007 07:48 PM

Gotta say I was stunned to see who he was traded for.

metirish Nov 30 2007 08:49 PM

So I suppose Jesus Flores who the Mets didn't protect in last years draft will be the Nats starting catcher, something seems wrong here,we trade Milledge to get the guy Flores will likely replace.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Nov 30 2007 08:58 PM

Yeah, the whole trade is all about Schneider, that's what makes it so wrong. And it's about Schneider in part because the Mets chose not to protect Flores. And Schneider is another bad hitter in a lineup that doesn't need any more bad hitters.

iramets Dec 01 2007 03:44 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: the Mets chose not to protect Flores. Again, whoever is in charge of evaluating young talent isn't doing a very good job of it. This is a person who is wearing a "FIRE ME" sign around his neck.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 01 2007 04:52 AM

metirish wrote: Gotta say I was stunned to see who he was traded for. Yeah! Neither of them is Hispanic!

iramets Dec 01 2007 07:28 AM

[url=http://blastingsthrilledge.blogspot.com/]BlastingsThrilledge[/url] ain't too pleased by this deal, and they have some good links to various pissed-off Mets fans.

iramets Dec 01 2007 07:47 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Yeah! Neither of them is Hispanic! Listening to Richard Neer's too-fervent defense of Omar as unbiased, it occurred to me that there really is a decent test of Omar's race-and-ethnicity blindness (Neer was arguing that Omar is just looking for good ballplayers and he sees good qualities in Hispanics which white GMs may overlook, so it's just purely a positive.) But examine when, if ever, Omar has dealt off a Hispanic player to get a white or an african american player. Has he ever done that? If he has, and the deal hasn't worked out so well, maybe that's because other GMs are thinking "Hey, if Minaya wants to unload an Hispanic player, that's pretty much telling us that the guy stinks on ice, because no one is more optimistic about the virtues of Hispanic ballplayers, no one looks to find some good in them than Omar, no one gives them more opportunities to prove themselves than Omar, so if he's wiling to pass on this one, we dont want to trade anyone half-decent for his hispanic rejects."

Edgy DC Dec 01 2007 07:54 AM

LoDuca was acquired for two prospects, the better of whom was Latin.

iramets Dec 01 2007 07:59 AM

Edgy DC wrote: LoDuca was acquired for two prospects, the better of whom was Latin. How's Gaby Hernandez doing? I'm trying to plumb the Marlins' roster for updated stats. Between him and Flores, Omar's defense may well be, "Hey, I let Hispanic ballplayers slip through my fingers all the time, just like any racist, biased, Hispanic-hating white GM would do."

MFS62 Dec 01 2007 08:12 AM

Speaking of ethnic things, last night Steve Somers said (I paraphrase) "At least Ryan can play on Jewish holidays". But then I came across this. Looks like Ryan will be holding some press conferences: ]back in 2005, Church was forced to issue an apology for anti-Semetic comments attributed to him. Excerpt: An article in Sunday's paper about Baseball Chapel quoted Church as saying that he had turned to [Jon] Moeller [Nats chaplain] for advice about his former girlfriend, who was Jewish. "I said, like, Jewish people, they don't believe in Jesus. Does that mean they're doomed? Jon nodded, like, that's what it meant. My ex-girlfriend! I was like, man, if they only knew. Other religions don't know any better. It's up to us to spread the word," Church said. In a written statement yesterday distributed by the team, Church said: "Those who know me on a personal level understand that I am not the type of person who would call into question the religious beliefs of others. I sincerely regret if the quote attributed to me in Sunday's Washington Post article offended anyone." http://www.washingtonpost...93_pf.html Later

iramets Dec 01 2007 08:22 AM

MFS62 wrote: ]back in 2005, Church was forced to issue an apology for anti-Semetic comments attributed to him. which does a little harm to the whole clubhouse-poison angle. I mean, trading a misogynistic rapper for an Ann Coulter Jew-converter doesn't exactly raise the level of intelligent discourse in the clubhouse, does it, or cut down on the number of ugly incidents festering? It's an unfortunate name, as well. Maybe he could do a little damage-prevention and change his name to "Ryan Synagogue."

willpie Dec 01 2007 08:50 AM

I think there's a bigger gap between dumbass-evangelic-christian and neo-nazi than anyone's letting on here. There's plenty to bitch about without getting on the Church-is-practically-John-Rocker train.

iramets Dec 01 2007 08:58 AM

I'm neither a big fan of ho-bashing rappers nor of Jews-must-be-converted Christian demagogues but Milledge can better plead youthful, fun-loving dumbness for his particular idiocy. Drafting a talented 18 y.o. in the hopes he'll outgrow it is a better move for the Mets, in my view, than is trading to acquire (and displace a Jewish ballplayer with) a 28 y.o. prosylitizing Christian idiot.

MFS62 Dec 01 2007 11:02 AM

Ryan comes across as more naive than bigoted. But those first few interviews with the NY media are going to be doozies until the issue is put to bed. Later

Elster88 Dec 01 2007 05:18 PM

I don't drink Met kool-aid any more.

AG/DC May 19 2008 07:22 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on May 19 2008 10:43 AM

Would anybody like to join me for a evening out, eating some gourmet shit. Because that's what Ryan Church (and Brian Schneider, to a lesser extent) have been serving so far to Minaya-bashing Met fans.

metirish May 19 2008 07:27 AM

I'm in , Church will be our deserving All-Star this year , or he should be.

soupcan May 19 2008 07:27 AM

Funny how stupid we are. Up until when can we change our vote? Because, you know, I like it now.

metirish May 19 2008 07:30 AM

I just voted , I was the only person who loved it.

themetfairy May 19 2008 07:31 AM

D-Dad was always happy about the trade.

AG/DC May 19 2008 07:32 AM

He forgot to vote love, though.

themetfairy May 19 2008 07:36 AM

He's been pretty crazy busy at work lately. But I do bear witness to the fact that he liked the trade from the get go.

AG/DC May 19 2008 07:36 AM

Best part of the interview Nymr cited/paraphrased: Mike: why no loduca, any worries about torrealba lawsuit against you which was rumored? Minaya: no worries about that, we agreed with agent not to discuss the reason why it didnt work out. Dog: anything to do with the mitchell report? Minaya: no.

Fman99 May 19 2008 08:37 AM

I will admit that I was totally wrong on this one. I had no idea that Church would light it up the way he has, or that Milledge would scuffle in DC as he has. Schneider has been about what I expected him to be.

AG/DC May 19 2008 08:43 AM

You expected Schneider to lose time do to goofy injuries (including a mysterious drug resistant infection), but still hit .304 and reach at .375? I didn't. I expected Charlie O'Brien

Fman99 May 19 2008 08:54 AM

AG/DC wrote: You expected Schneider to lose time do to goofy injuries (including a mysterious drug resistant infection), but still hit .304 and reach at .375? I didn't. I expected Charlie O'Brien Sorta. I expected him to hit for better average than he did last year (which he has), but to hit for about the power he has shown. His defense and handling of the pitchers has been as advertised, I would say.

Vic Sage May 19 2008 10:06 AM

I hated the trade. But so far, 25% of the way into the season, I'm deliriously happy with it. I'm still not sold on the deal yet, though, and I'm the president of TITTS. Look, if either Church or Schneider ends up the season with a signficantly better year than Milledge, you could certainly argue that it may have been worth giving up Milledge's future potential in the deal. But if BOTH players end up with better years (as is currently happening), than we will likely end up in the playoffs and it will certainly have turned out well, regardless of Milledge's future. I just have the sense that Schneider will come crashing back to earth and Church will go go crashing into another fence (or another player), while Milledge comes around and hits .275/20hr/20sb this year, with .300/30/30 coming down the pike. I'd be happy to be totally wrong.

Fman99 May 19 2008 10:26 AM

Vic Sage wrote: I hated the trade. But so far, 25% of the way into the season, I'm deliriously happy with it. I'm still not sold on the deal yet, though, and I'm the president of TITTS. What a coincidence. I'm a big fan of tits, too.

John Cougar Lunchbucket May 19 2008 10:28 AM

"I'm a big supporter of TITTS," he said brazenly.

Mendoza Line May 19 2008 10:31 AM

Mr. Omar Minaya Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations & General Manager New York Metropolitans Baseball Club Shea Stadium 123-01 Roosevelt Avenue Flushing, NY 11368 May 19, 2008 Dear Mr. Minaya: I'm the fan who mumbled "dumbass" under his breath when you traded Mike Cameron for part-time righty bat Xavier Nady. I'm also the fan who said "Omar is an effing panicky dumbass" when you traded Nady for old set-up guy Roberto Hernandez and wildman Oliver Perez. The fan who screamed "Send that dumbass back to Montreal" when you let old, broken down, injury-prone Cliff Floyd go and replaced him with old, broken down, injury-prone Moises Alou at a higher salary? That was me. And the fan who threw things, cussed, and yelled "Fire Omar's dumb ass now!" when you traded hot prospect Lastings Milledge for old, no-offense Brian Schneider and so-so Ryan Church? Yeah, me again. OK, I know I'm a slow learner, but after three years, I think I've figured out which one of us is a dumbass. And it isn't you. Know what I'm saying? Please accept my humble apologies. I'll take my shit medium rare. Hollandaise sauce on the side, please. Sincerely, Mendoza Line

Benjamin Grimm May 19 2008 11:01 AM

Mendoza Line wrote: I'll take my shit medium rare. Hollandaise sauce on the side, please. Or you can take it liquefied.

RealityChuck May 19 2008 11:26 AM

Shows what happens if you depend on statistics for all your information.

Centerfield May 19 2008 11:26 AM

When as the menu changed from crow to shit? Is there any crow left? I'll take that if I can.

smg58 May 19 2008 12:16 PM

Vic Sage wrote: I'd be happy to be totally wrong. So would I. I still expect Schneider to come down to earth offensively, but if it doesn't happen before a few other guys start heating up the Mets will be fine. And besides, his defense really has been an asset. But I also thought then, and certainly still do now, that the key to the deal for the Mets is Church. I don't know if he'll be THIS good all year, but I do think it's a very safe bet at this point that he'll be a better player than Lastings Milledge over the 2008 season. Interestingly, this marks the third time that Minaya has made a deal where the biggest asset to the Mets has turned out to be the guy considered the less important of the two players acquired at the time the deal was made.

AG/DC May 19 2008 12:19 PM

I'm not sure the Mets or I considered Schneider the more important acquisition.

Nymr83 May 19 2008 12:23 PM

i hated the trade (though not because i dont like church) and still think it may be bad in the longrun, but boy has it worked out so far.

Rockin' Doc May 19 2008 06:31 PM

I was never a big Milledge fan. He always hit me as a million dollar talent with a 10 cent head. Too immature to ever reach his sizable potential. I still could be wrong on that count, but I definitely didn't shed any tears when I learned the Mets had shipped him away. Still, I wasn't overly thrilled with what the Mets had acquired in exchange for Milledge. I somehow failed to vote in this poll, but I think that my initial take was wavering somewhere between netral ambivalence and dislike. Never in my wildest dreams did I think Ryan Church would be as good and as valuable to the Mets cause as he has been thus far. Charlie O'Brien is a pretty close approximation of what I expected from Schneider. He too has been a pleasant surprise to date. The longterm ramifications of this trade may not be known for a few years, but the early returns have been very heavily skewed in the Mets favor. I'm willing to eat my share of crow on this one, but I'm leaving the shit for those that most vehemently opposed this move.

TransMonk May 19 2008 06:57 PM

Milledge sucks. I would have traded him for a bag of balls. At the time, I thought we could have duped some team into getting more for him than Church and Schneid, but I love, love, love the trade right now.

MFS62 May 19 2008 07:01 PM

Lastings might some day be thought about as our Roberto Kelley. Later

cooby May 19 2008 07:31 PM

I do not seem to be able to vote, but I can tell you I did not care for his bead sucking self, so I like the trade.