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Yorvit Up the Poopchute

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 02 2007 08:32 PM

Anyone with a theory as to WTF is going on? I mean, I liked that the Mets were ready to let LoDuca walk. But wtf do you suppose was The Plan, and why has it gone like this so far? 1. Plan A was Posada, I guess. A longshot but the right idea, probably. 2. Plan B is Torrealba? Omar liked him so much that his agent was singing Omar's praises in the Daily News. But the deal (3 yrs, 14 mills) gets scuttled at zero hour for reasons that won't be disclosed. 3. Many puzzled over the Torrealba thing had by last week surmised that the Estrada-Mota thing must have come up suddenly. 4. But maybe it was the Schneider deal? Because as it looks now Estrada may come back only on a minor league deal. Not that his acquisition didn't do us the favor of having someone else pay Mota. But still. What is going on?

metirish Dec 02 2007 09:02 PM

Surely Estrada will be cut, no need for him to be offered anything, did you hear different? No idea what Minaya is at, I think Church will be part of a package to get a starting pitcher, probably along with Humber, Heilman etc. Apparently the Pirates are wanting to move Nady, I'd not mind trying to work something to get him back.

Nymr83 Dec 02 2007 09:06 PM

i cant imagine church being part of a package, is there really another team out there that told omar "we don't want milledge, get church instead and then we'll talk"? i have to doubt that. and who is the starting rightfielder if not church? Green? Chavez? Fukudome?

metirish Dec 02 2007 09:17 PM

I can't believe that Church will be the starting right fielder, honestly I can't.

Nymr83 Dec 02 2007 09:19 PM

i'm not a big church fan but who else will it be, and why would omar trade milledge for him if not to start him? was this deal really just about brian schneider? with castro just resigned? estrada around? loduca available? torrealba rejected? thats sad.

Edgy DC Dec 02 2007 09:26 PM

I don't know if we're answering the Lunchbucket challenge. But Ryan Church slugged .466, .526, and .464 the last few years in a pitchers' park, and that's what it is. There are no other options in Mets hands who are close. Until we hears different, I think we better get used to the idea that the simplest solution is the most likely.

Frayed Knot Dec 02 2007 09:27 PM

Catchers are in short supply right and I think part of the thinking was to latch onto one before the music stopped and there were none left. - Posada was a longshot just-in-case meeting and I'm not sure we didn't dodge a bullet on that one. I could do w/o a 4-yr contract to a catcher as he approaches then passes 40 - Don't know what to make of Torrealba, either the sudden interest and reasonably big contract offer OR the last minute pull out - Estrada was a way to get rid of Mota who even Minaya sounds like he lost patience with. Estrada either gets dropped or flipped for some minor piece as I can't see them keeping 3 catchers (as none play anything except backstop) and I don't see him accepting a minor league assignment so he can wait around until one of Schneid-astro gets hurt. - And I think Schneider is a guy he likes and saw a chance to land him for Milledge and get Milledge's "replacement" (and probable equal for this year at least) in the same deal. Not that I agree with his assessment, but I believe that's what he's thinking here.

Edgy DC Dec 02 2007 09:32 PM

="Frayed Knot"]- And I think Schneider is a guy he likes and saw a chance to land him for Milledge and get Milledge's "replacement" (and probable equal for this year at least) in the same deal. Not that I agree with his assessment, but I believe that's what he's thinking here. Then my question is why? I've seen a lot of Schneider and I don't.

metirish Dec 02 2007 09:37 PM

It's all about balance and the great defense now behind the plate. I think these are two guys Minaya knows very well and when the chance to get them came to jumped at it, he's big on guys he knows and they probably won't embarrass the club and they can play a bit too.

Frayed Knot Dec 02 2007 09:40 PM

]Then my question is why? I've seen a lot of Schneider and I don't He keeps preaching the whole 'defense and will make the staff better' angle. And I keep thinking that he better be one helluvagood defensive catcher.

SteveJRogers Dec 02 2007 09:54 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: ]Then my question is why? I've seen a lot of Schneider and I don't He keeps preaching the whole 'defense and will make the staff better' angle. And I keep thinking that he better be one helluvagood defensive catcher. [url=http://gothambaseballmagazine.com/going-nine/going-nine--minaya-milledge-and-10-000-maniacs.html]Mark Healy suggests that he could be Grote good![/url]

Edgy DC Dec 02 2007 10:41 PM

I think his arm is good. I think the esoteric "rest of his defense" is about as good as you're predisposed to think it is.

Nymr83 Dec 02 2007 11:24 PM

SteveJRogers wrote: [url=http://gothambaseballmagazine.com/going-nine/going-nine--minaya-milledge-and-10-000-maniacs.html]Mark Healy suggests that he could be Grote good![/url] this is Healey's normal crap filled with his classified top-secret trustworthy inside sources. oh and what were you reading steve? i don't see a comparison to grote or really anything other than briefly calling him "gold glove caliber"

iramets Dec 03 2007 05:26 AM

Nymr83 wrote: i cant imagine church being part of a package, is there really another team out there that told omar "we don't want milledge, get church instead and then we'll talk"? i have to doubt that. and who is the starting rightfielder if not church? Green? Chavez? Fukudome? Supposably, it was the Orioles who wanted Church and not Milledge in a deal for Bedard that also included Heilman and Humber. "Gonna Yorvit, Yorvit, Yorvit up your poopchute..." [police whistle] is now my earwiorm, thanks ever so much...

smg58 Dec 03 2007 07:04 AM

I had heard that the Orioles had turned down Gomez, Heilman, and Humber for Bedard, which actually strikes me as a low-ball offer if true. I don't see anybody desiring Church more than Milledge. The Mets took Church plus Schneider for Milledge, so the Mets don't even see Church as the more valuable player by himself. And even if Church does go, who plays rightfield? I don' think there is a plan, unfortunately. Minaya had said he didn't want to trade bargaining chips for a catcher when he was about to sign Torrealba. What happened there remains a mystery, and if the deal never got to the physical then I have heard no speculated explanation that works. I can see Estrada for Mota as a way to get rid of the contract, but it's not clear if the Mets ever looked at Estrada long enough to see how well he was recovering from his operations. Which would seem odd, since a healthy Estrada is better than LoDuca or Schneider. I've heard that Schneider was a favorite of Minaya's when they were in Montreal, and that makes sense to me. Schneider was a better hitter and fielder then, though, and it's possible that Omar is overvaluing him at this point.

Edgy DC Dec 03 2007 07:16 AM

If the Orioles wanted Ryan Church, the Mets could have/should have done held off on that one until the deal was in place. At least when they acquired and flipped David Justice, you knew that he was a general asset good for flipping to any old American League team, should the Oakland deal not play itself out. Nonetheless, I'm intrigued in smg-gie reporting the scenario that Church is part of a bigger deal, even though his source is "I had heard." It's past perfect, passive, and ambiguious, but I'm eating again for the first time in three days.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2007 07:31 AM

This was supposed to be about catchers. How could you not get that.

metsmarathon Dec 03 2007 08:26 AM

i heard/read the same thing as smg, though i cannot recall the source. so there go.

metirish Dec 03 2007 09:45 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: This was supposed to be about catchers. How could you not get that. My fault I think that it went the Church route, sorry bub. I'll be very interested to see who'll be raving about Schneider's defense( is it that good?) come July and he's hitting .210 or a bit more.

Edgy DC Dec 03 2007 10:09 AM

metirish wrote: is it that good? I say no, no, no.

smg58 Dec 03 2007 10:16 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Nonetheless, I'm intrigued in smg-gie reporting the scenario that Church is part of a bigger deal, even though his source is "I had heard." It's past perfect, passive, and ambiguious, but I'm eating again for the first time in three days. I haven't heard anything specific about Church. I think rotoworld had the Bedard report that listed Gomez, Heilman, and Humber, although ironically, they also said a week or two ago that the Nationals coveted Gomez. It's possible that Minaya decided that of the three young Mets outfielders, he was keeping Martinez and Gomez and taking what he could get for Milledge -- even though Milledge could start in rightfield right now and Gomez's centerfield defense is something that the teams with pitchers to deal would like but the Mets don't need. That theory would be easily refuted if Gomez gets dealt too, naturally. But if he wasn't planning on keeping two of those three outfielders, you have to wonder why he opted for a short contract to Moises Alou when Soriano and Carlos Lee were available. Which brings us back to JCL's query concerning "The Plan."

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 03 2007 10:35 AM

There was a game many moons ago where Schneider did so many little things well I was moved to remark in the game thread something to the effect of, "this won't show up in the boxscore, but these head's up plays are the kinda things we could use more of..." (which indicates it was probably a Piazza-era game against the Expos). He just struck me as a heads-up kinda player -- which he had to be considering he couldn't hit. What do Nats fans make of this? Not that they get Milledge but of the guys on their way out? Seems Scheneider, especially, is going to have all his value in that vague "day in, day out" kinda category.

Vic Sage Dec 03 2007 11:39 AM

There are maybe 5-6 catchers in baseball who hit well enough that there offense matters. At this point in their various careers, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between Schneider, Torrealba, LoDuca or Estrada (or Castro, for that matter). So, if you don't have one of the dirty half-dozen, you might as well go with the best glove you can get. That being said, you don't give up a player at Milledge's age, with his talent and record of minor-league production, to go from Estrada to Schneider. Church is, at his age, what he is... which isn't bad, but which isn't great, and is not a signficant upgrade over Milledge, even at this early point in Milledge's career. There has to be something else going on here, in terms of off-the-field problems with Millzy, but even so, if this was the best we could do, we shouldn't have done it. Omar is less and less impressive to me every day. And i wasn't all that impressed with him in the first place.

MFS62 Dec 03 2007 12:05 PM

I've been hearing on the radio from the "baseball experts" that LoDuca never was a great "handler of pitchers" (whatever that means). Could that also mean that the Mets may keep many of their their young hurlers, rather than include them in deals? Later

iramets Dec 03 2007 12:06 PM

Edgy DC wrote: ="metirish"]is it that good? I say no, no, no. I can see Willie in outlandish eye-makeup, gross tatts, and a teensy-weensy skirt, singing: "They tried to make me catch Brian Schneider, But I said No, No, No..."

Edgy DC Dec 03 2007 12:19 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: What do Nats fans make of this? Not that they get Milledge but of the guys on their way out? Seems Scheneider, especially, is going to have all his value in that vague "day in, day out" kinda category. Nobody seems overly excited about it, as Church and Schneider had "our guys" status, but seem almost universally accepting of the dispassionate reality that it was too good a deal for them not to pull the string on.