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First Block Buster!! (not Met related)

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2007 04:40 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 04 2007 04:43 PM

(acc to several ESPN sources) Florida is set to send Miguel Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for a package of 6 players, including: - LHP Andrew Miller (#1 Overall pick in 2006) 22 y/o - OF Cameron Maybin (#10 overall pick in 2005) 20 y/o - plus a utility player and 3 minor league pitchers Think the Tigers have enough hitting?

DocTee Dec 04 2007 04:42 PM

Nice to have them out of our division. Three lefty starters for the Tiggers rotation, now, I think.

metirish Dec 04 2007 05:00 PM

No idea about the kids the Marlins are getting but Miller and Maybin are supposed to be super prospects, I'd hate to be a Marlins fan though, tough to sell them this I would think.

willpie Dec 04 2007 05:53 PM

Now that is a bigass trade. Who's Florida playing at 3rd?

Valadius Dec 04 2007 05:54 PM

My grandpa thinks Uggla's going to third.

Kid Carsey Dec 04 2007 06:06 PM

Valad: >>>My grandpa thinks Uggla's going to third<<< Link?

OlerudOwned Dec 04 2007 06:27 PM

Shame that Dontrelle won't get to hit anymore. Abolish the DH!

Valadius Dec 04 2007 06:32 PM

Detroit's lineup is SCARY now.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 04 2007 06:35 PM

Detroit, rock city. They can prolly trade Inge to the Angels for something useful now too.

smg58 Dec 04 2007 07:04 PM

metirish wrote: No idea about the kids the Marlins are getting but Miller and Maybin are supposed to be super prospects, I'd hate to be a Marlins fan though, tough to sell them this I would think. On one hand, it sounds like Florida is getting a lot, and it's not like Marlins fans didn't know this was coming. On the other hand, the Marlins actually turned the biggest profit of any team last year, so at some point somebody will have to call Loria on his lack of spending. Uggla had the Fielding Bible's worst +/- at second base, Ramirez was the worst at short, and Cabrera was third worst at third. Moving Uggla to third would probably upgrade two positions defensively. They key to this deal is actually Willis. The return of the old D-Train will give the Tigers a title. Last year's Willis will get murdered in the AL, though, and even the usual offense from Cabrera won't be enough to make this deal look good.

Gwreck Dec 04 2007 07:59 PM

I still see this as a great deal for the Tigers. Miller is indeed a great prospect but with Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson and Minor they have quality young pitching. Add Willis and Kenny Rogers (who reupped for a year) and they can put one of them in the 'pen.

Edgy DC Dec 04 2007 08:02 PM

Hanley, while maybe being the MVP anyhow, was also a pretty lousy fielder. Florida just sucked defensively and it's likely what kept them from being a pretty good team. I think this trade'll work out great for Florida. Detroit too probably. It's not like we haven't seen Florida hibernate and come back strong before.

Frayed Knot Dec 04 2007 08:08 PM

]... the Marlins actually turned the biggest profit of any team last year Where is that info from and is something we should take at face value given the wonders of creative accounting and all that?

Fman99 Dec 04 2007 09:08 PM

I am happy to get both Fatty and Crooked-Hat out of the NL East. Though Willis seemed more hittable this year than in years past.

Nymr83 Dec 04 2007 10:16 PM

]Florida just sucked defensively and it's likely what kept them from being a pretty good team. pitching might have helped. the team ERA was 15th out of 16 NL teams in a pitcher's park.

attgig Dec 04 2007 11:02 PM

as much as I hate florida for selling out like that, if i lived in south florida, I would love it. every few years, sell EVERYTHING, and get awesome young prospects. after a few years of maturation... run for the playoffs...and actually win a WS. then repeat. compared to small market teams like the pirates..... I'd rather be a marlin fan.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 04 2007 11:34 PM

Maybin played here in Grand Rapids the year before last. He's the real deal. And Miller is a fine pitcher. Rabelo is a back-up catcher. The rest of the minor leaguers in the deal are not people I've heard of, and that kind of sells something. This seems like a steal for the Tigers. I'm stunned that they couldn't get more from somebody.

metirish Dec 05 2007 06:22 AM

Some things to chew on from Jayson Stark. ] "What's their payroll going to be?" one baseball man wondered Tuesday night. "Six million bucks? Eight million?" Hey, excellent guesses. As best we can tell, their highest-paid player next season is going to be closer Kevin Gregg. He made $575,000 this year (less than the Yankees paid A-Rod every four days). And he's actually arbitration-eligible. Or it might be Miller, even though he's only 22 years old, was pitching for the UNC Tar Heels as recently as two years ago and owns exactly 74 1/3 innings of big league experience. Miller signed a major league contract out of college, so he's scheduled to make $1.325 million if he's in the big leagues next season, which will practically be Johan Santana money compared to the rest of that roster. "There's no way," said one agent, "that the average salary on that team is even going to be close to $500,000."

smg58 Dec 05 2007 06:56 AM

Frayed Knot wrote: ]... the Marlins actually turned the biggest profit of any team last year Where is that info from and is something we should take at face value given the wonders of creative accounting and all that? The number comes from a Forbes magazine report. I have no idea how they took "creative accounting" into account when they came up with their numbers. The bottom line is that they're making money by not spending anything. However, the Marlins are also the least valuable franchise, so Loria won't make a whole lot if/when he sells the team.

Elster88 Dec 05 2007 07:39 AM

Willis suxx.

seawolf17 Dec 05 2007 08:10 AM

I've been saying it for a while now, but the Marlins scare me. That's a lot of very good young players. I know they're not paid much, but they can play.

Edgy DC Dec 05 2007 08:21 AM

No need to panic until they re-sign Conine.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 05 2007 08:21 AM

The Fish won't keep that team together long enough to contend. Loria is a scumbag though Beinfest seems to know what he wants. It's interesting to see how the Angels basically went and cried over the Marlins' toughness in dealing (they'd offered prospects/young players like Howie Kendrick, Jeff Mathis, Nick Adenhart or Ervin Santana) only to see them pull the trigger on this one. I guess it indicates the Angels prospects aren't no Miller & Maybin; or that, perhaps, Willis was "baggage."

Vic Sage Dec 05 2007 10:37 AM

i just looked at the Fish's potential 25-man roster, and i'm not terrified. 1) Ramirez (ss) 2) Uggla (3b) 3) Hermida (rf) 4) Willingham (lf) 5) Jacobs (1b) 6) Maybin / Ross (cf) 7) Amazeaga (2b) 8) Olivo (c) Bench: -Treanor (c) -Ross (of) -De Aza (of) -Andino (if) -____ (LH PH /CI) SP: 1) Olsen 2) A.Miller 3) Mitre 4) Nolasco* 5) Vandenhurk* * DL - Sanchez, J.Johnson (out for `08) Bullpen: -Gregg -Lindstrom -J.Miller -Tankersley -Gardner -Pinto -Barone* * DL - H.Owens Sure, the lineup and the rotation have alot of potential, but thats alot of 23-25 year olds to be counting on. The bullpen does look good. As for payroll, there were only 2 guys that made over $400K last season: - Olivo ($2m) - Gregg ($575k) So, unless they make some other moves, they could end up spending a total of $15M-$20M on payroll this season. Which is absurd.

Valadius Dec 05 2007 11:02 AM

There should seriously be at least some kind of minimum payroll as well as a salary cap. In this day and age, a $15 million payroll is ridiculously low. The ONLY problem the Marlins have is that they need a stadium with a roof and air conditioning. Once they have that, people WILL show up.

Edgy DC Dec 05 2007 11:06 AM

This is America.

Rockin' Doc Dec 05 2007 11:08 AM

valadius - "...The ONLY problem the Marlins have is that they need a stadium with a roof and air conditioning... Well, there is that cheap, idiot owner (Loria) to overcome.

Nymr83 Dec 05 2007 11:31 AM

don't be silly, ballparks need to be built by taxpayers not rich owners.

iramets Dec 05 2007 11:34 AM

Valadius wrote: In this day and age, a $15 million payroll is ridiculously low. And yet Glavine was unable to get two outs from these pathetically inept faux-major leaguers out in the most crucial game of last game, with a 100+ mil team behind him.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 05 2007 12:04 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 05 2007 01:05 PM

Thinking about it all day, I think the Marlins trade helps the Mets. Two young All-Stars got shipped and not a single real major-leaguer went the other way. Yes, I realize that Maybin, Miller and Rabelo were on the Tigers roster part of the summer. But no one like Curtis Granderson or Jeremy Bonderman was in the deal. Two huge chips went for prospects.

smg58 Dec 05 2007 12:49 PM

Well it also helps the Phillies and the Braves just as much. And it sets the trading bar awfully high.

Edgy DC Dec 05 2007 01:03 PM

As much as the returns for the Marlins are future returns. The pain for the Mets will be future pain. As it was, a weak Marlins team took seven of 18 in 2007, including at least one too many.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 05 2007 01:09 PM

I didn't mean it would help the Mets in terms of weakening the competition. I wondered if this deal helps the Mets make a deal. Big talent moved for prospects. We have prospects, including some with major league experience, and even young players with proven success, like Maine or Perez. If two top prosects and four average ones can land Carbrera AND Willis, shouldn't that imply that a package of perhaps not top but indeed solid prospects and a young, proven player get you something? Granted. not all trading partners are the Marlins....

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2007 01:36 PM

Another thing this deal does is continue the seemingly constant shift (in the short term anyway) of star-type players from the NL to the AL. On the subject of the Marlins being dangerous, we should remember to resist the temptation to simply assume that the package of prospects - even Maybin & Miller - are destined for stardom. Kevin Goldstein at Baseball Prospectus takes a look at [url=http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6973]this six-pack of of Miami-bound youngsters[/url]. On the big two: Maybin is massively talented but, as much as scouts love him, they have the some concerns that PECOTA* has, notably his high strikeout rate. He'll play every day for Florida in 2008, ready or not, and he'll likely be one of those players who dazzles one day and frustrates the next -– with one scout setting the over/under on his strikeouts at 150. I'm not knocking Maybin as a prospect, because he's still an easy five-star player and one of the top outfield prospects in the game, but based on multiple conversations here in Nashville, both before and after the deal, scouts have more concerns about him than I realized. * Their projection system Miller is also a player who hasn't been quite as good as the tools should indicate. Six-foot-six lefties whose velocity sit in the mid-90s don't exactly grow on trees, yet Miller has rarely dominated on a statistical level, even at High-A in 2007. One issue has been his inconsistent command, as his long and lanky build still leads to inconsistent release points. The other primary knock is his lack of aggressiveness. Scouts don't see a streak in him as nasty as his stuff, and he often avoids challenging hitters or pitching inside. He has the skills to be a frontline starter, but in the end, he's yet to pitch to one.

Nymr83 Dec 05 2007 05:27 PM

reading those reports really makes it sound like FLA got hosed. but does loria really care as long as he gets dontrelle's salary off the books? its sad that their highest paid player (miguel olivo) is a replacement level guy.

MFS62 Dec 05 2007 05:45 PM

="Frayed Knot"] Miller is also a player who hasn't been quite as good as the tools should indicate. Six-foot-six lefties whose velocity sit in the mid-90s He has the skills to be a frontline starter, but in the end, he's yet to pitch to one. Sounds like David West redux. Later

Frayed Knot Dec 05 2007 08:31 PM

Nymr83 wrote: reading those reports really makes it sound like FLA got hosed. "Hosed" isn't exactly accurate, at least not yet. It's just that with ALL prospects you run the risk of not knowing whether or not they'll pay off in the end - even with ones as highly thought of as these two. Miller was the top college pitcher and #1 draft pick in his year while Cameron was the 2nd best HS player in his (#10 pick overall) behind only Justin Upton and both were BA top-10 prospects at this time last year. If prospects were guaranteed to work out then nobody would ever get rid of them.