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Stinking Klapisch

metsguyinmichigan Dec 07 2007 06:24 AM

This little gem from the known Met-hater Bob Klapisch, who predicts our boys to finish third. "...and the Braves might just sneak by the Mets as the division's second-best team if Mike Hampton makes a comeback and Tom Glavine feels comfortable enough at the back of the rotation to win 12-15 games. Meanwhile, the Mets' two most dependable pitchers are old (Orlando Hernandez) and fragile (Pedro Martinez)." Hold on! Hernandez and Pedro are old and fragile and Glavine and Hampton are not? Has Hampton pitched in the last year?

iramets Dec 07 2007 07:03 AM

I'm sorry, my copy of Klapisch's story has been edited to read that IF Hampton makes a comeback, the Braves JUST MIGHT "sneak" past the Mets into second place (and probably still finish out of the playoffs). You see to have gotten the early edition where he says that it's a done deal that Hampton will pull a comeback year out of his ass (and that a lot of other stuff that Klapisch doesn't think will happen WILL DEFINITELY happen). True, what he's writing is that the Mets look kinda heartless and clueless, based on last season's historically pathetic finish and this winter's astonishing lack of roster improvement. Which part do you see differently? Or does calling him a Met-hater complete your job of shoring up your position around here? Rock on!

Edgy DC Dec 07 2007 07:26 AM

Hampton already got hurt again, getting pulled from his first inning pitching in the Mexican Winter League.

RealityChuck Dec 07 2007 07:29 AM

...and the Mets might just win the World Series if Pedro Martinez makes a comeback and Mike Pelfrey feels comfortable enough at the back of the rotation to win 12-15 games. ...and the {insert team name here} might just sneak by the {insert another team name here} as the division's second-best team if {injured pitcher} makes a comeback and {an underchieving pitcher} feels comfortable enough at the back of the rotation to win 12-15 games. If wishes were horses . . .

metsguyinmichigan Dec 07 2007 07:49 AM

iramets wrote: Or does calling him a Met-hater complete your job of shoring up your position around here? Rock on! Um, not sure what you mean by this. Shoring up positions? I think it's been pretty well established that Klapisch is a Mets hater. He's pretty much made a career out of it.

iramets Dec 07 2007 07:58 AM

"That Met-hating lowlife had the balls to write in a paper distributed to men, women and children (children!) that the sun rises in the east, that lying scumbag Met hater. What an asshole! Like he understands astronomy. Fuck him with a rusty turkey baster--I hate him since he predicted that the Mets wouldn't win the division last year. Will the injustice never end??..." That kind of talk might get you locked up in several states for Endangering Public Safety, mainly for the volumes of drool that typically accompanies such ranting , but in these parts, you can spew such drivel safe and secure in the knowledge that none of your CPF buds will call you on it. I have your back, dude. Spew on!

metsguyinmichigan Dec 07 2007 08:05 AM

iramets wrote: "That Met-hating lowlife had the balls to write in a paper distributed to men, women and children (children!) that the sun rises in the east, that lying scumbag Met hater. What an asshole! Like he understands astronomy. Fuck him with a rusty turkey baster--I hate him since he predicted that the Mets wouldn't win the division last year. Will the injustice never end??..." That kind of talk might get you locked up in several states for Endangering Public Safety, mainly for the volumes of drool that typically accompanies such ranting , but in these parts, you can spew such drivel safe and secure in the knowledge that none of your CPF buds will call you on it. I have your back, dude. Spew on! Don't attribute that quote to me. I never said that. I was calling Klapisch on his inconsistencies for the amusement of the Pool readers.

iramets Dec 07 2007 08:10 AM

Your position, btw, which I took from such hints as your title and your lead, is that, the exceptionable part of this ho-hum "sun rises in the east" story is Klapisch. To a more objective reader of Klapisch's columns than yourself, the question might be "Is this the slowest news day ever? Are columnists really speculating about where mediocre teams will finish out of the money if we assume that certain unlikely event come to pass?" IOW, Klapisch wrote nothing objectionable, and for all intents and purposes, Klapsich wrote nothing at all. But to you the fact that he had words printed under his byline, and that those words were not rapturous praise for your Mets, seems to have set you off. Now if you wanted to defend that rancor with some specifics, I might be more engaged: DO you think that it's impossible for the Mets to finish third this year, or behind the Braves, or both? We could have a discussion on this subject, Klapisch quite aside, but that might be harder for you to defend.

iramets Dec 07 2007 08:14 AM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: the amusement of the Pool readers. That's my point about shoring up your position. There are about three dozen people walking around unshackled and unmedicated who would agree with you that Klapisch's column is a crime against nature, and fortunately for you they're all members of the CPF.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 07 2007 08:22 AM

iramets wrote: Now if you wanted to defend that rancor with some specifics, I might be more engaged: DO you think that it's impossible for the Mets to finish third this year, or behind the Braves, or both? We could have a discussion on this subject, Klapisch quite aside, but that might be harder for you to defend. This is my last go-around on this. I was specific in the first post. It's inconsistent to paint the two Mets pitchers he cited as old and fragile, when in fact the two Braves pitchers he held up as examples are in fact older (well, based on Hernandez' listed age.) and far more fragile. As someone who works in the media, I'm well aware there are days when there are column inches to fill and not much to say. And Klapisch, like Tom Verducci, seems to use those days to paint the most dreary picture possible of the Mets.

iramets Dec 07 2007 08:35 AM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: This is my last go-around on this. So I'll assume you don't care to defend your disagreement with him that the Mets might finish third this season, or that the Braves might finish ahead of them. That's good. Because my impression around here is that even some CPFers don't see either of those positions as evidence of madness, Met-hatred, or irrationality, but simply the way the prospects are developing so far: a team coming off a very disappointing year without having improved itself. If this is all it takes to make a Met-hater, I'm afraid it includes a few more people than Klapsich and Verducci.

SteveJRogers Dec 07 2007 10:04 AM

Ironically, didn't Klapish admit to being a fan in The Worst Team Money Can Buy or was that just "Hey those 80s Mets were a great team to like" sort of thing.

smg58 Dec 07 2007 10:05 AM

The Braves could beat out the Mets, for sure. Having Teixeira for a full year should make a huge difference. Then again they don't have Renteria and Jones, and the Braves' magic touch at finding replacements for departed players might not be what it was a few years back. I doubt that Glavine and Hampton will be positive difference makers for them, though. But other than the Tigers and maybe the Angels, who's clearly improved themselves so far? The Yankees have committed a large amount of money to maintaining the status quo with an aging roster. Big deal. Most of the big names are still out there. I really didn't like the Milledge trade, but it's too early to pass final judgment on the offseason. I would like to know what Plan B is, though, in case a front line starter doesn't materialize. And Minaya had better have a damn good plan for improving the pen, because it's not clear that he's even looked at any relievers yet.

Edgy DC Dec 07 2007 10:30 AM

With the pitching that the Yankees have coming up, maintiaining the status quo may make them younger.

soupcan Dec 07 2007 11:18 AM

smg58 wrote: I would like to know what Plan B is, though... Plan B: Livan Hernandez. Ugh.

G-Fafif Dec 09 2007 01:50 PM

Dave (MGIM), Consider me amused... and your position as Klapisch Kop shored up by me.

attgig Dec 10 2007 09:13 AM

am I not entertained? am I not entertained! yes I am. and I think a lot of mets fans on a lot of boards have the 'whole world (especially journalists) are against me and my team' mentality. I don't know if it's being in the shadow of the yankees, or the fact that we haven't won it all in 20 years, but.. yeah, it's a prevelant syndrome present in mets fans.

metirish Dec 11 2007 10:24 AM

Klapisch today on his National column. ] Landing a big-time ace would help allay Mets' doubts Special to ESPN.com The date was Sept. 13, back when life was still plush for the Mets. They had a seven-game lead over the Phillies with 17 to go, on final approach to the postseason -- heck, the World Series -- with no reason to believe their world would soon disintegrate. Three months later, the Mets are still recovering from the worst collapse in regular season history. They're not even the favorites in the East anymore, let alone the National League's best team. So what happened, exactly? The question has stumped everyone at Shea. Who loses six of their final seven games at home with a playoff berth at stake? The finish was ugly enough to soil even Tom Glavine, who was booed off the mound (and out of New York) after surrendering seven runs to the Marlins in just one-third of an inning in the season finale. Indeed, the gap between the Mets' before and after is too wide for any conventional explanation, forcing Omar Minaya to spin his way around the embarrassment. The GM says, "We won 88 games. That's not a terrible season." Still, there are enough scars that Minaya was scouring the winter meetings looking for a blockbuster deal. The Mets' pursuit of Johan Santana has been noted everywhere -- of all the left-hander's suitors, the Mets have the most desperate need for him -- but so far, Minaya doesn't have the chips to tempt the Twins. Not if he's keeping David Wright and Jose Reyes off the table. Not if Carlos Beltran is staying put, and not if Lastings Milledge has already been dealt. It's not that the Mets aren't trying: They've opened the vault of minor league prospects for the Twins to choose from -- Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez are both available, although not necessarily in the same package -- but the problem is Minaya likes his young stars more than anyone else does. Unlike the 2005-06 boom in Flushing, when the Mets acquired Beltran, Pedro Martinez and Billy Wagner, and instantly morphed into an NL powerhouse, the Mets could finish the winter as quietly as they started it. There are no free-agent checks for Minaya to write, no rabbits the GM can pull out of a hat, which is hardly good news for Mets fans. The current battle plan for 2008 is tightly crossed fingers. "Right now, you have to pick the Phillies [to win the East], because they're the champs," Minaya conceded recently. "But I still like our club. If I have to go into the season with what we have right now, I'm OK with that." Minaya's peers don't necessarily believe that. Everyone thinks he'll do something, anything to keep from relying on the surgically-repaired Pedro Martinez as the ace. But Minaya's decision to send Milledge to the Nationals may have cost the Mets whatever chance they had of making a megadeal for Santana or Dan Haren without including Reyes. The swap itself, which brought Ryan Church and Brian Schneider, has met with mixed results in the industry. One general manager said during the meetings, "Now was the wrong time to trade Milledge. It was either last year when his value was higher or next year after he could've brought more [in return]." Right now, you have to pick the Phillies [to win the East], because they're the champs. But I still like our club. --Mets GM Omar Minaya The Mets' response is that Church, even at 29 and having already peaked, is a legitimate threat against right-handers, evidenced by his 43 doubles last year. He'll play better outfield defense, and is more mature than Milledge. Schneider, meanwhile, trumps Paul Lo Duca behind the plate. For the short term, Minaya is probably right when he says, "This is a good trade for the team. It might not be popular, but these players are going to help us." There's also cautious optimism about the return of Duaner Sanchez as the eighth-inning set-up man, a move that could allow the Mets to deal Aaron Heilman. Still, there's no mistaking the lingering wound this offseason, from Glavine's defection to the Braves, to the failed attempts to land Santana, to the uncertainty surrounding Reyes after his vanishing act in the final six games of the season. Of all the players the Mets are counting on, it's Reyes who'll most greatly influence the franchise's course in 2008. Not Pedro, not Beltran, not even Wright can match Reyes' game-changing skills. The shortstop's combination of speed, defense and gap power made him one of the five best players in the National League at certain times, yet he batted .156 (5-for-32) while the Mets were being caught and passed by the Phillies. The company line is that Reyes' collapse was merely a "slump at the wrong time," says Minaya. The shortstop says he was tired after playing 160 of 162 games, and finishing second in the NL in plate appearances. But Reyes' exhaustion bled into a bizarre moodiness. The 24-year-old shortstop gave away enough at-bats down the stretch that he, too, was booed by Met fans. The normally effervescent Reyes was so out of sync he ended up in a fistfight with the Marlins' Miguel Olivo on the second-to-last day of the season. One major league executive believes Reyes is paying the price for his headfirst slides as his stolen-base total keeps skyrocketing. After 234 swipes in five seasons, including a major league-best 78 last year, "You have to wonder if all that punishment got to him," the executive said. A strained relationship with Willie Randolph didn't help, either. Reyes started distancing himself soon after the manager removed him from a game in July for failing to run out a ground ball. Now, says Minaya, "It's Willie's job" to rehabilitate Reyes' spirit. The GM didn't have to say or else. The stakes are already high. Randolph was nearly dismissed after the collapse, and everyone will be waiting for ownership's response if the Mets start slowly in 2008. With September's echo lingering, it likely won't be pretty. METS' GREATEST NEEDS • Ace starter: During the heart of N.Y.'s collapse (last seven games of season), its starter's ERA was 8.64. • Bullpen help: Mets relievers had a 4.03 ERA in '07 after posting a 3.28 ERA in '06. • Catcher: Among those who played 75 percent of their games at catcher and had 300-plus PAs in '07, Brian Schneider ranked tied for 24th (out of 29) in both batting average (.235) and home runs (6). • Right field: On the bright side, Ryan Church is a .340 career hitter at Shea Stadium. Only Hideki Matsui (.420) and Albert Pujols (.354) have higher career BAs at Shea among active players with a minimum of 50 at-bats.

Nymr83 Dec 11 2007 10:39 AM

]The GM says, "We won 88 games. That's not a terrible season." You collapsed and missed the playoffs, that's a terrible season.

smg58 Dec 11 2007 02:44 PM

]So what happened, exactly? The question has stumped everyone at Shea. The pitching collapsed. A couple of hitters could have played better, sure, but the team averaged six runs a game the last three weeks. ]The GM says, "We won 88 games. That's not a terrible season." I agree with nymr's response, although replacing the pitchers who were were awful with guys who are simply competent (and perhaps allowing Pelfrey the chance to make it to the "simply competent" level) could get the team back into the 90's. ]Still, there are enough scars that Minaya was scouring the winter meetings looking for a blockbuster deal. The Mets' pursuit of Johan Santana has been noted everywhere -- of all the left-hander's suitors, the Mets have the most desperate need for him -- but so far, Minaya doesn't have the chips to tempt the Twins. Not if he's keeping David Wright and Jose Reyes off the table. Not if Carlos Beltran is staying put, and not if Lastings Milledge has already been dealt. Don't even suggest Wright. ]It's not that the Mets aren't trying: They've opened the vault of minor league prospects for the Twins to choose from -- Carlos Gomez and Fernando Martinez are both available, although not necessarily in the same package -- but the problem is Minaya likes his young stars more than anyone else does. The Mets are competing with teams that have more highly regarded prospects than Martinez. It's as simple as that. ]There are no free-agent checks for Minaya to write, no rabbits the GM can pull out of a hat, which is hardly good news for Mets fans. The FA market is thin. I'd define a rabbit out of the hat as somebody like John Maine or Oliver Perez, not a big name like Santana or Haren. I'll wager the rabbits are there to be found. ]"Right now, you have to pick the Phillies [to win the East], because they're the champs," Minaya conceded recently. "But I still like our club. If I have to go into the season with what we have right now, I'm OK with that." The bullpen still sucks, Omar. And our best option for rightfield against left-handed pitching is Damion Easley. ]Minaya's peers don't necessarily believe that. Everyone thinks he'll do something, anything to keep from relying on the surgically-repaired Pedro Martinez as the ace. Pedro was his defining moment as a GM. I wouldn't doubt Minaya's seriousness if he gives Pedro the vote of confidence. ]But Minaya's decision to send Milledge to the Nationals may have cost the Mets whatever chance they had of making a megadeal for Santana or Dan Haren without including Reyes. The Twins, Orioles, and A's all want a top defensive centerfielder, and they had doubts about Milledge filling that need. Klapisch would know that if he was paying attention. Now why that wouldn't be a perfectly acceptable reason to KEEP Milledge... ]The Mets' response is that Church, even at 29 and having already peaked, is a legitimate threat against right-handers And for his other 200 AB's... ]He'll play better outfield defense, and is more mature than Milledge. The National soured on him in CF because they didn't like his defense. And Milledge just might improve some with experience. ]Schneider, meanwhile, trumps Paul Lo Duca behind the plate. He does? ]For the short term, Minaya is probably right when he says, "This is a good trade for the team. It might not be popular, but these players are going to help us." Minaya had better be right. ]There's also cautious optimism about the return of Duaner Sanchez as the eighth-inning set-up man, a move that could allow the Mets to deal Aaron Heilman. OK, so let me get this straight. Heilman gave us 86 quality innings last year, and the pen was still unacceptably bad on the whole. The POSSIBLE return of a guy who missed all of last year would make Heilman expendable? ] Still, there's no mistaking the lingering wound this offseason, from Glavine's defection to the Braves, Silly me, I thought that was a good thing. ] to the failed attempts to land Santana, to the uncertainty surrounding Reyes after his vanishing act in the final six games of the season. Replace "six games" with "four months," and somebody just might accuse you of actually following the team you are writing about. ]Of all the players the Mets are counting on, it's Reyes who'll most greatly influence the franchise's course in 2008. Not Pedro, not Beltran, not even Wright can match Reyes' game-changing skills. Reyes may be more visually appealing, but Wright is, has been, and will likely continue to be a much better hitter. ] The shortstop's combination of speed, defense and gap power made him one of the five best players in the National League at certain times, yet he batted .156 (5-for-32) while the Mets were being caught and passed by the Phillies. Jose is a very good player, and the talent to be a great player, but he's not one of the five best in the NL. Putting him in that category before he earns it accomplishes nothing but setting up people for disappointment. ]One major league executive believes Reyes is paying the price for his headfirst slides as his stolen-base total keeps skyrocketing. Just like it tragically shortened the careers of Pete Rose and Rickey Henderson. ]A strained relationship with Willie Randolph didn't help, either. Reyes started distancing himself soon after the manager removed him from a game in July for failing to run out a ground ball. Now, says Minaya, "It's Willie's job" to rehabilitate Reyes' spirit. So Willie should have rewarded him for not running the ball out? ]Randolph was nearly dismissed after the collapse Did anybody here get that impression?

metsguyinmichigan Dec 11 2007 02:50 PM

"Replace "six games" with "four months," and somebody just might accuse you of actually following the team you are writing about. Just like it tragically shortened the careers of Pete Rose and Rickey Henderson." Bad ass! And completely true! And you just know that if Jeter had a habit of sliding head-first Klap would call it a sign of his hustle and greatness.

bmfc1 Dec 28 2007 09:01 AM

"Now we're wondering if Glavine will be cheered or booed when he returns to Shea in '08 with the Braves." Klapisch wrote this today, here: http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcyMzg2OTAmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2 Who is this "we" that Klapisch thinks is wondering? Only him, as far as I know because the first time Tom Glavine takes the mound at Shea this season, it will be like a theme night. There's "Meringue Night", there's "Jewish Heritage Day" and there will be "Let Tom Glavine know how you feel about him Night." Is there any doubt that Glavine will be booed liked crazy?

Willets Point Dec 28 2007 09:48 AM

Maybe a few of the Glavine worshipers still linger about.

metirish Dec 28 2007 09:48 AM

About Minaya in a who's Hot and who's Not he wrote. ] NOT: Omar Minaya The Mets' general manager is gambling heavily on Ryan Church and Brian Schneider to make Mets fans forget Lastings Milledge. The 22-year-old outfielder was, at times, immature, and certainly underdeveloped as a ballplayer, particularly on defense. But Milledge just might blossom in Washington under manager Manny Acta, which would serve only to embarrass the Mets' hierarchy. If the Mets really were convinced Milledge's trade value had plummeted, they should've waited a year to try again. They would've done no worse than Schneider and Church. Unless the Mets can somehow pry Johan Santana away from the Twins, they'll go into '08 without significantly improving the team that blew a seven-game lead with 17 to go. Minaya loves the art of the deal, but he's yet to work any magic this winter. On the other NY team. ] NOT: Yankee payroll GM Brian Cashman has been obsessed with holding down the overhead, so how do you think the Yankees felt after being slapped with a $24 million luxury-tax bill last week? In all, the Bombers shelled out $232 million in payroll and tax for 2007 – a figure that in part was offset by the 4.2 million in attendance. The Bombers vaulted over the 40 percent tax threshold when they signed Clemens at midseason, giving him a prorated $28 million deal. With the tax included, the Yankees actually paid The Rocket $25 million for his 18 starts, during which he was 6-6 with a 4.18 ERA.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 28 2007 10:18 AM

bmfc1 wrote: Is there any doubt that Glavine will be booed liked crazy? No, none at all.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 28 2007 12:50 PM

Typical Klapisch, nothin' but cheapshots that can be easily dismissed. Allow me: "The Mets' general manager is gambling heavily on Ryan Church and Brian Schneider to make Mets fans forget Lastings Milledge. The 22-year-old outfielder was, at times, immature, and certainly underdeveloped as a ballplayer, particularly on defense. But Milledge just might blossom in Washington under manager Manny Acta, which would serve only to embarrass the Mets' hierarchy. If the Mets really were convinced Milledge's trade value had plummeted, they should've waited a year to try again. They would've done no worse than Schneider and Church. Unless the Mets can somehow pry Johan Santana away from the Twins, they'll go into '08 without significantly improving the team that blew a seven-game lead with 17 to go. Minaya loves the art of the deal, but he's yet to work any magic this winter. " Well, one might say that you don't need to significently change a team that was 7 games up with 17 to go. The bullpen fell apart. Some of the biggest offenders have been booted. Omar's made some additions. But more importantly, does the season start tomorrow? Did I miss something? If it were March 30 and Chruch and Schneider were the only changes, then it might be a vaild statement. There is plenty of time. Plenty. And who are we kidding. If the Mets give away the farm to get Santana, Klap will criticize that, too. He's a one-trick pony. Kalp's idea of column diversity: Sometimes he takes a cheap shot at the Mets in his lead, and sometimes he waits until the second paragraph. As for Glavine, I don't normally boo players not named Chipper or Jeter. But that seven-run nightmare was just ... unacceptable.

Centerfield Dec 28 2007 01:38 PM

It's hard to argue with what Klapisch is writing there. I agree with him about the Milledge trade. I agree that if Lastings' value was that low, we would have been better off keeping him. Collapse or no collapse, the Mets weren't good enough to win the division or the Wild Card. Any team that doesn't win 90 games doesn't have a legitimate beef about missing the playoffs. Simply stated, the 2007 Mets weren't good enough, and the 2008 Mets don't look to be any better (maybe even worse). I realize Omar's hands may be tied and that there aren't a lot of great options out there, but he is the General Manager, and it's his job to figure something out. So far, he hasn't....meaning he is definitely a not "hot". You're right, it's not Opening Day, and there is still time. But in the past, most big off-season moves happen before New Year's...meaning the chances are low that something significant will be done. And if Omar does figure out something, his "hot/not" status can change...but as of right now, it's not looking good. Can anyone say they're happy with this team right now? I don't see why Klapisch should feel any different.

smg58 Dec 28 2007 02:33 PM

Milledge is a much safer bet with the bat than he is with the glove, and the teams with the pitching were all looking for centerfielders. A team looking for a corner outfielder would have probably offered somebody more substantial than two platoon players for Milledge's services. I also think there's a good chance that Minaya values Schneider quite a bit more highly than most people -- they were in Montreal together at a time when Schneider was a better hitter than he's been lately, and Minaya may think that Schneider will thrive again with a change of scenery. I'd still have kept Milledge, though. Santana and Joe Blanton are still likely to be dealt. With Carlos Gonzalez under their belt from the Haren deal, the A's might not want an outfielder at this point. I'd offer Pelfrey, Mulvey or Guerra, Gotay, and Joe Smith and see what happens. Gotay might be worth something to Oakland if they trade Mark Ellis (FA next year). But that might not be enough, and I think Minaya should have done (be doing) more to strengthen the pen regardless of how the rotation shapes up.

Nymr83 Dec 28 2007 04:29 PM

]It's hard to argue with what Klapisch is writing there. I agree with him about the Milledge trade. I agree that if Lastings' value was that low, we would have been better off keeping him. No. If the Mets had not traded Milledge, Klapisch would be writing about how he's been a bust here and they should trade him and get something right now.