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The mitchell LIST! -- the In-Report Thread

Vic Sage Dec 12 2007 03:38 PM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2007 03:44 PM

[edit - i just found out the list i posted was speculative] sorry

Vic Sage Dec 12 2007 03:39 PM

*avi*

G-Fafif Dec 12 2007 03:44 PM

Never mind then.

MFS62 Dec 12 2007 05:06 PM

What's an avi? I get the impression from the way it has been used since I got here that it is a tribute to a past CPF-er. Is that correct? If not, what's the story behind it? Concerning the LIST, who do you think will be on it? Who do you hope will be on it? Later

Edgy DC Dec 12 2007 05:11 PM

I'm on it. I'm all over it. Other surprising names: David Eckstein Jeff Wilpon Michael J. Fox Chuck Woolery Martha Quinn Scrappy Doo

SteveJRogers Dec 12 2007 05:26 PM

MFS62 wrote: What's an avi? I get the impression from the way it has been used since I got here that it is a tribute to a past CPF-er. Is that correct? If not, what's the story behind it? Not a CPF-er, but rather a MOFOer. He was an annoying poster from Mets.com, I believe one of his more famous threads is in the CPF archives, I think its his "Top Ten Games I Attended List" and a few of the more cranky MOFO-ites had some fun at his expense (SalaBretIraDoc was one of them). After a while he left the forum, but not before putting a "curse" on the forum and going back and replacing all his posts with a single . Hence . has been called an "avi" not really a tribute so much as an inside joke. OE: [url=http://cranepoolforum.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=12]This is the thread in the archives[/url]

MFS62 Dec 12 2007 05:31 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm on it. I'm all over it. Other surprising names: David Eckstein Jeff Wilpon Michael J. Fox Chuck Woolery Martha Quinn Scrappy Doo OK, point well taken. What major league ballplayers do you think/ hope will be on Mitchell's list of steroid users? Later

Kid Carsey Dec 12 2007 05:37 PM

MFS, Ginkoba, you remembered avi back in Jun 2005.

MFS62 Dec 12 2007 06:00 PM

="Kid Carsey"]MFS, Ginkoba, you remembered avi back in Jun 2005. I said I thought I remembered him, but couldn't remember from where. And I still didn't understsnd the context in which his name was still being used. Steve just explained that. Later

Kid Carsey Dec 12 2007 06:09 PM

SteveJHistorian ... the list continues.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 12 2007 07:23 PM

Edgy DC wrote: I'm on it. I'm all over it. Other surprising names: David Eckstein Jeff Wilpon Michael J. Fox Chuck Woolery Martha Quinn Scrappy Doo Scrappy Doo, that roided-up little bastard. And really, deep down we all had to suspect something was up when we saw the difference between Scrappy in the cartoon then in the movie. But we were all enjoying the ride and probably didn't want to look too closely. So disillusioned.

Nymr83 Dec 12 2007 07:25 PM

]He was an annoying poster from Mets.com

Kid Carsey Dec 12 2007 07:53 PM

I really thought that there would be some leaks tonight but they got this thing sealed up like a bulls ass during fly season.

Edgy DC Dec 12 2007 07:57 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 12 2007 10:15 PM

Yahoo promises me All Stars and MVPs. One thing is that, if this list is based primarily on Radomski's client list, it could easily be disproportionately weighted towards National Leaguers and Mets, even if the greater steroid picture is not.

Nymr83 Dec 12 2007 09:54 PM

you know the met-hating media goons would love that.

MFS62 Dec 13 2007 06:18 AM

="Kid Carsey"]I really thought that there would be some leaks tonight but they got this thing sealed up like a bulls ass during fly season. Sometime when you have a chance, you've just got to tell us what else you look at closely during your free time. Thanks for sharing that Hallmark moment. Later

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 06:24 AM

You know, I go t a thought that maybe Mitchell is like Janet Reno, who was asked by President Clinton to give the the people a dog and pony show, but ended up showing independence and heart and giving Ken Starr the authority to tryuly embarrass Clinton. Mitchell may well have similarly gotten away from Bud Selig. John Dowd seems to hink so: http://news.google.com/news?btcid=88e720c5deaf9421

MFS62 Dec 13 2007 06:26 AM

Along those same lines, it will be interwesting to see what, if anything, the report says about the Red Sox, since IIRC Mitchell sits on the team's Board of Directors. I have heard the report may point fingers at management as well as the players and the union. Later

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 06:34 AM

It had better.

bmfc1 Dec 13 2007 07:48 AM

ESPN says that Clemens is on the Mitchell List. First of all--NO KIDDING? DUH! Second--this confirmation makes me very happy, despite the embarrassment the game will face that one the "poster boys" took the stuff.

HahnSolo Dec 13 2007 07:51 AM

The story I hear on FAN is that his trainer purchased steroids. Again, bad for Clemens, but it does leave him a little wiggle room for excuses, which I think we'll be saying about just about everybody on this list.

duan Dec 13 2007 08:11 AM

If by virtue of Kirk Radomski and a small other number of incidents they're able to name 50 or so recent/current major leaguers than I think its safe to say that over an extended period baseball was riddled with Steroids or other Performance Enhancing Drugs. The Players Union and the officialdom of MLB have huge responsibility in this, for CLEARLY ignoring widespread evidence of the potential usage until the last possible credible moment.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 08:16 AM

The Bergen Record says several "prominent" Yankees will be named. I can't wait. If Jeter's on the list it will make my day.

DocTee Dec 13 2007 08:27 AM

Here in SF, these names have been leaked: Armando Rios, Bobby Estallella, Benito Santiago, the Giambi Brothers, and Gary Sheffield.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 08:38 AM

bmfc1 wrote: Second--this confirmation makes me very happy, despite the embarrassment the game will face that one the "poster boys" took the stuff. Embarrassment to the game doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I think it's often well-deserved and I kind of like when it happens.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 08:48 AM

Back when I was an ultimate frisbee legend, I rolled my ankle badly but returned after a few weeks with an aircast and the OK from a physical therapist to take Advil before I played. My ankle got better but I continued with the Advil when I played because I *felt like* it gave me an edge. Frisbee! Advil! There was no money on the line.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 08:48 AM

]Armando Rios, Bobby Estallella, Benito Santiago, the Giambi Brothers, and Gary Sheffield. Estalella is no susprise. Sheffield has already been caught. The Giambi brothers have pretty much incriminated themselves into a corner. Of those we didn't have the goods on already, Santiago came back from the dead. and Rios rescued himself from AAAA Hell.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 08:52 AM

DocTee wrote: Here in SF, these names have been leaked: Armando Rios, Bobby Estallella, Benito Santiago, the Giambi Brothers, and Gary Sheffield. Well it doesn't take much of a leak to find those names since they were also already named in the original BALCO investigations. In all, between BALCO, the positive tests via MLB's new policy, plus the Albany-area on-line pharmacy list and a few other extraneous sources, there have already been 50+ players "named" to date. At this point it's not clear whether the Mitchell list will be 60-80 "new" names or just the existing 50 plus only a dozen or two via whatever dirt this Radomski character gave him. Seeing as how players wouldn't talk to him and the names from the initial "dry run" no-penalty test were reportedly off limits it's not like there were a lot of new sources here except for the ex-clubhouse boy.

metirish Dec 13 2007 09:38 AM

NYT says Pettite will be named in report, interesting tidbit here from the same article. ] Clemens had a 40-39 record from 1993 through 1996 and was not re-signed by the Boston Red Sox. The next year, he signed with the Toronto Blue Jays and began working out with McNamee. Clemens had two of the best years in pitching history in 1997 and 1998, winning the Cy Young Award in both seasons and also led the league in wins, earned run average and strikeouts.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 10:09 AM

Clemens and Pettitte's "strenuous workout routine" is a load of crap then.

OlerudOwned Dec 13 2007 10:48 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 10:54 AM

]Only current Met I see is Castro. (Sound of contract quickly being tendered to Estrada.)

Gwreck Dec 13 2007 10:48 AM

The other Yankees being named are Kyle Farnsworth, Jason Giambi and Johnny Damon.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:00 AM

It will be a good day if Piazza is exonerated. And the list from Deadspin HAS to be joking about Neifi Perez.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 13 2007 11:03 AM

Valadius wrote: Clemens and Pettitte's "strenuous workout routine" is a load of crap then. Well, not necessarily. The roids make it easier to work out harder and longer -- but you still have to do the work. That said, I can now feel justified in my dislike of all things Clemens. Bat-chucking bastard that he is.

Gwreck Dec 13 2007 11:05 AM

Valadius wrote: It will be a good day if Piazza is exonerated. Not being on the list is hardly exoneration. Valadius wrote: And the list from Deadspin HAS to be joking about Neifi Perez. What are you talking about? He's already been caught and suspended twice.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 11:08 AM

Also, it's a report coming out today, not a list.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:20 AM

He was? I guess I forgot then.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 11:25 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Also, it's a report coming out today, not a list. Egg-Xactly!! This thing is a (hopefully) comprehensive 300+ page document, not just a roster. As I said in another thread (and, from the leaked synopsis so far, it seems to be the case) the purpose of this thing should be to figure out what mis-steps and ignored signs over the last decade-plus got the sport into this mess in the first place and to lay out suggestions for avoiding similar problems in the future. NOT being on the list is not the same as exoneration and being on it just means that you were unlucky that your particular method of obtaining the drugs was one of the few they could trace. Having said all that I don't particularly care that naming names in conjunction with the report is going to embarrass some people and possibly even screw up a few HoF chances. But the names on this thing should really be treated as the appetizer rather than the main course - even though most of the media (at least initially) is likely do things the other way around.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:33 AM

Seriously, if none of the 2000 Mets are in the report, I want a damn parade for the REAL 2000 World Series Champions.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 11:38 AM

Vlad, do you really need to be reminded twice in the same thread that the report coming out today is not a list of every player who cheated, or necessarily, one that exonerates guys whose names don;t appear? The message we should get was this was an epifuckingdemic.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:43 AM

I know. I'm just really angry at Clemens and Pettitte, and that we probably got robbed. Steve Phillips, on ESPN, just said that he suspects that 5 or 6 guys on the Mets from 1997 to 2003 were on steroids.

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 11:54 AM

MFS: >>>when you have a chance, you've just got to tell us what else you look at closely during your free time<<< I think I'm paraphrasin' Wild Bill Hicock from a Deadwood episode, always struck me as a funny expression. I've adapted it to describe a friend of mines, uh, frugality from time to time also. T-minus 7 minutes, office closed, four hours of ESPNews ... yay. Honey, go buy more beer and pass the chips and dip!

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 11:55 AM

This is also NOT about thinking we can go back in time and alter past results in some sort of attempt to put them as we think they might have been had steroids never existed. And unless they've discovered evidence of [u:c85cb4161c]recent[/u:c85cb4161c] use for some of these names there's probably not going to be any suspensions resulting from this.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:56 AM

Clemens took steroids, ESPN reports. LO DUCA NAMED.

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 11:57 AM

Cancelled checks cited from Paul Lo Duca!!!

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:58 AM

Also Fernando Vina, Rondell White.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 11:58 AM

Omar: "I just got 10% smarter, you know?"

Valadius Dec 13 2007 11:59 AM

Mitchell Report online at mlb.com.

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 11:59 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 12:00 PM

Entire report soon to be posted on mlb.com according to Mitchell. (I ain't gonna turn this into an IGT, so don't worry fellas)

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 12:00 PM

Valad has a faster internet connection than me.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 12:01 PM

List coming out: Divided, apparently, into "groups" based on how they were discovered. Below is a [u:ca79dde3d7]partial list[/u:ca79dde3d7] of 'The Radomski Group', ie, those who names were obtained via the ex-NYM clubhouse boy. I didn't get them all as they were being read off: Lenny Dykstra Jack Cust Josias Mazanilla Todd Hundley Mark Carreon Matt Franco Rondell White Grudzelanek Andy Pettitte Clemens Knoblauch Jason Grimsley Gregg Zahn David Justice FP Santangelo GlenAllen Hill Mo Vaughn Denny Neagle Ron Villone Chris Donnels Todd Pratt Kent Merker Miguel Tejada Jerry Hairston Jr

Rotblatt Dec 13 2007 12:02 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 12:04 PM

I know you guys are all right that not being on the list hardly means one was innocent, but I still feel the same way Vlad does about Piazza. If he's not on the list, while all the other dudes who've been suspected over the years (Nomar, Clemens, Tejada, Rocker, etc.) are, it will FEEL like a vindication to me. There's no way to prove innocence, so we'll never really know if he used PED's, but for my part, I will celebrate if he's not in the report released today, if for no other reason than it makes it a little less likely that a guy I loved to root for cheated on his way to being the best hitting catcher in MLB history.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 12:02 PM

Well, my world has no meaning.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:04 PM

Manny Alexander had steroids in his car in 2000.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:05 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 12:12 PM

Ricky Bones, who is now employed by the Mets, had steroids in his locker while with the Marlins. OE: The Super-Sacred Super-Size Seaver Post! Too bad it has to be about this subject.

metsmarathon Dec 13 2007 12:06 PM

not matt franco!

metsguyinmichigan Dec 13 2007 12:08 PM

HAIL!!!!! And what a day to salute Seaver, who needed nothing extra to kick some butt.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 12:08 PM

="George Mitchell"]Todd Hundley Todd Hundley played as a catcher with three teams in Major League Baseball from 1990 until 2003 (the New York Mets, Los Angeles Dodgers, and Chicago Cubs). He was with the Mets from 1990 to 1998. He played in All-Star games in 1996 and 1997. Radomski has known Hundley since 1988, when Radomski worked for the Mets and Hundley played in the Mets’ minor league system.380 Radomski stated that, beginning in 1996, he sold Deca-Durabolin and testosterone to Hundley on three or four occasions. At the beginning of that year, Radomski told Hundley that if he used steroids, he would hit 40 home runs. Hundley hit 41 home runs in 1996, having never hit more than 16 in any prior year. After the season, Radomski said, Hundley took him out to dinner. Chris Donnels played with Hundley in 2000 when they were both with the Los Angeles Dodgers. Donnels admitted to my investigative staff that Radomski supplied him with performance enhancing substances. Donnels recalled having extensive discussions with Hundley about his performance enhancing substance use and about Radomski while they were teammates. Hundley’s name, with two addresses and three telephone numbers, is listed in the address book seized by federal agents from Radomski’s residence. In order to provide Hundley with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 12:13 PM

="George Mitchell"] Josias Manzanillo Josias Manzanillo pitched for eight teams in Major League Baseball between1991 and 2004, the Boston Red Sox, Milwaukee Brewers, New York Mets, New York Yankees,Seattle Mariners, Pittsburgh Pirates, Cincinnati Reds, and Florida Marlins.Radomski stated that when he was working for the Mets in 1994, Manzanilloasked Radomski to inject him with the steroid Deca-Durabolin that Manzanillo provided.Radomski did so in the Mets clubhouse. Radomski said that this was the only instance in whichhe actually observed a major league player using steroids. In order to provide Manzanillo with information about these allegations and togive him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me. His lawyer proposedarranging an interview, but we were unable to do so before the completion of the investigation.His lawyer provided the following proffer of what Manzanillo would say if he was interviewed: Manzanillo claimed that a Mets clubhouse attendant nicknamed "Murdock"approached him repeatedly in the early 1990s and encouraged him to buy steroids. (Radomski’snickname when he worked in the Mets clubhouse was "Murdock.") The clubhouse attendantreportedly told Manzanillo that if he used steroids he would gain velocity on his fastball.Manzanillo ultimately paid for one cycle of steroids from "Murdock" for approximately $200-$250. After paying for the steroids, Manzanillo’s lawyer said, he "chickened out or thoughtbetter of it" and never actually took possession of the steroids. Through his lawyer, Manzanillodenied ever using performance enhancing substances. Radomski said that he did not sell any steroids to Manzanillo and that his onlysubstance-related involvement with Manzanillo was when he injected him with steroids in theclubhouse. Radomski stated that he remembered the event clearly because it was the only timehe ever injected a player with steroids. In 2001, Manzanillo was playing with the Pittsburgh Pirates. According torecords produced by the Commissioner’s Office, on September 7, 2001, Jose Cervantes wasdetained by a resident security agent at the Angels’ stadium in Anaheim. Cervantes reportedlywas found in possession of various prescription medications; he admitted that he brought drugsacross the Mexican border and sold them to a number of major league players (but not steroids orhuman growth hormone). Cervantes provided the investigators with the names of those playersto whom he had sold drugs; he also provided them with his cell phone and allowed them toretrieve the telephone numbers of those players. Cervantes said that he provided antiinflammatorymedications to Manzanillo, and Manzanillo’s name and telephone number wereamong those listed. Through his lawyer, Manzanillo said that he "knew nothing about such anincident" or why his name was in Cervantes’s cell phone directory.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:14 PM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: HAIL!!!!! And what a day to salute Seaver, who needed nothing extra to kick some butt. Hail! the full report: [url]http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf[/url]

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 12:17 PM

="George Mitchell"] Mark Carreon Mark Carreon played as an outfielder in Major League Baseball from 1987 to1996, with the New York Mets, Detroit Tigers, San Francisco Giants, and Cleveland Indians. Radomski worked for the Mets when Carreon played for the club. Radomski said that he provided Carreon with Dianabol pills toward the end of his tenure with the Giants(Carreon was with San Francisco from 1994 through the middle of the 1996 season). He believes that Carreon paid by check. According to Radomski, Carreon told him that the "ball was jumping off his bat" and that he could hit farther because of the anabolic steroids he used.In order to provide Carreon with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me. He did not respond to my request.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 12:20 PM

="George Mitchell"] Matt Franco Matt Franco played as an infielder with three teams in Major League Baseball between 1995 and 2003, the New York Mets, Chicago Cubs, and Atlanta Braves. Although Radomski stopped working for the Mets after the 1994 season, he continued to socialize with Mets players and personnel. Radomski said he met Franco when he played for the Mets and that he came to know Franco “very well.” Radomski said that he sold Franco steroids on one occasion in 2000 after Franco called him to place the order. This call occurred, according to Radomski, after Radomski ran into Franco at an event. Franco agreed to an interview by telephone with my investigative staff. During that interview, Franco denied ever purchasing or using any performance enhancing substance. Franco also denied that he ever met, knew, or talked with Radomski, asserting that he had never even heard of Radomski before the publicity over Radomski’s guilty plea.

soupcan Dec 13 2007 12:21 PM

Listening to Mitchell on FAN he has reccomended amnesty for the players named in his report.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 12:22 PM

Clemens took the most powerful steroid available. Yeow

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 12:23 PM

="George Mitchell"]Mo Vaughn Mo Vaughn played as an infielder and designated hitter with three teams in Major League Baseball between 1991 and 2003, the Boston Red Sox (8 seasons), Anaheim Angels (2 seasons), and New York Mets (2 seasons). While with the Red Sox in 1995, he was voted the American League Most Valuable Player. He played in three All-Star games. Radomski said that Glenallen Hill referred Vaughn to him. A former major league player has confirmed that Hill and Vaughn had a conversation in early 2001 in which Radomski’s name was mentioned. Radomski recalled that Vaughn had an ankle injury and called him for advice.401 Radomski told Vaughn that human growth hormone would help his ankle heal faster. Radomski said that thereafter he sold human growth hormone to Vaughn. Radomski also provided Vaughn with a program for the use of the human growth hormone. Radomski said that he delivered the substances to Vaughn personally. Radomski produced three checks deposited into Radomski’s accounts and drawn on Vaughn’s checking account: two checks for $3,200 each, and one check for $2,200. All of the checks are included in the Appendix. One is shown below. Radomski said that the two checks in the amount of $3,200 were each for two kits of human growth hormone. He stated that the check in the amount of $2,200 might have been for one-and-a-half kits of human growth hormone. Radomski said that he did not sell Vaughn steroids because Vaughn was "afraid of the big needles." Radomski could not explain why Vaughn was buying human growth hormone twice within an eighteen-day span (two of the checks are dated June 1 and June 19, 2001, respectively), but he thought that Vaughn either left his performance enhancing substances behind when he traveled or allowed the earlier shipment to spoil. Radomski also said that on many occasions he received payments well after supplying the drugs. Vaughn’s name, with an address and telephone number, is listed in the address book seized from Radomski’s residence by federal agents. In order to provide Vaughn with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he never agreed to an interview.

martin Dec 13 2007 12:23 PM

paul loduca is on HGH, according to that pdf. mike stanton is getting stuff delivered to shea in 2003.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 12:23 PM

Mitchell: - Only the comiish office can choose to discipline, but I urge him to forego discipline for those on this list unless he feels that a specific case was so severe as to affect the integrity of the game ... most of the offenses were several years ago (2 - 9) and almost half of those named are no longer active. - Going forward the testing program needs to be run by an outside agency, needs to include more year-round testing, needs to be more "transparent" to the public (data released, specifics included, etc)

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 12:24 PM

Funny juxtaposition. Frayed Knot wrote: ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]Also, it's a report coming out today, not a list. Egg-Xactly!! Frayed Knot wrote: List coming out: Divided, apparently, into "groups" based on how they were discovered. Below is a partial list of 'The Radomski Group', ie, those who names were obtained via the ex-NYM clubhouse boy. I didn't get them all as they were being read off: Lenny Dykstra Jack Cust...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 12:25 PM

Glenallen Hill has the most attractive checks in MLB as far as I can tell.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 12:25 PM

I'm having a lot of fun reading through this report, just clicking through the names. Disappointed about Chris Donnels.

themetfairy Dec 13 2007 12:26 PM

martin wrote: paul loduca is on HGH, according to that pdf. mike stanton is getting stuff delivered to shea in 2003. I have ALWAYS hated Stanton!

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 12:26 PM

="George Mitchell"]Todd Pratt Todd Pratt played as a catcher from 1992 to 2006 for four teams in Major League Baseball, the Philadelphia Phillies (8 seasons), Chicago Cubs (1 season), New York Mets (5 seasons), and Atlanta Braves (1 season). Radomski became acquainted with Pratt after he joined the Mets in 1997. According to Radomski, Pratt informed him that he had previously bought Deca-Durabolin from another source. Sometime in 2000 or 2001, while he was still with the Mets, Pratt asked to buy anabolic steroids. Radomski made one or two sales of small amounts of steroids to Pratt. Radomski also recalled having a few discussions with Pratt regarding their use. In order to provide Pratt with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me. He did not respond to my request.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 12:26 PM

A compromise for Mitchell would be to give him his amnesty but in exchange put a strike against the named guys' records (unless he appeals), so his next offense is a second one.

martin Dec 13 2007 12:27 PM

loduca is like a hgh fiend, helping gagne get the stuff.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 13 2007 12:27 PM

Wow. Paulie gets a lot of ink in that thing. Not as much as Clemens, though. Yikes. Very sad to see all the info about Hundley. But not surprised.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 12:29 PM

Yeah, no reason to be surprised about most of these names, including Nails and Hundley.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 12:32 PM

Mitchell summing up: 'Follow my recommendations Bitches!!!'

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:32 PM

The Radomski Group: Lenny Dykstra David Segui ($1,800 check included in the report) - Radomski dealt with Segui more than any other player Larry Bigbie Brian Roberts Jack Cust Tim Laker Josias Manzanillo Todd Hundley Mark Carreon Hal Morris Matt Franco Rondell White Roger Clemens Andy Pettitte Chuck Knoblauch Jason Grimsley Gregg Zaun David Justice F.P. Santangelo Glenallen Hill Mo Vaughn Denny Neagle Ron Villone Ryan Franklin Chris Donnels Todd Williams Phil Hiatt Todd Pratt Kevin Young Mike Lansing Cody McKay Kent Mercker Adam Piatt Miguel Tejada Jason Christiansen Mike Stanton Stephen Randolph Jerry Hairston, Jr. Paul Lo Duca (Hundley referred Lo Duca to Radomski) - Hilarious note by Dookie to Radomski - "They sent the check back to me ... my phone is TOAST!" Adam Riggs Bart Miadich Fernando Vina Kevin Brown Eric Gagne Mike Bell Matt Herges Gary Bennett Jim Parque Brendan Donnelly Chad Allen Jeff Williams Howie Clark Nook Logan

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 12:33 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 12:38 PM

Fascinating where the Dodgers discuss trading LoDuca would inspire him to get back on the juice because he's a competitive guy. Wow on Gagne: ]The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded, Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . .426 In order to provide Gagné with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:37 PM

It's no surprise that Donnelly and Logan were cut loose now that this has come out.

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 12:38 PM

I don't think I'll ever get used to (or at least not appreciate) that I can get things like a four hundred page report about something I'm interested in downloaded to my laptop in like four seconds as the news is breaking.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:41 PM

Tejada got his drugs from Adam Piatt, who got them from Radomski.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:43 PM

Mo Vaughn was using at least in 2001.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:44 PM

Clemens is the name i was most hoping to see on this list. Pettite was a nice bonus as well. the inclusion of Chipper Jones or Derek Jeter would have been nice, but i'll take what we got

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:45 PM

productivity among baseball fans may have hit a new low today.

bmfc1 Dec 13 2007 12:45 PM

Hitting refresh on this thread reminded me of an IGT.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:46 PM

Gagne had stuff delivered to Dodger Stadium in 2004.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:48 PM

Will the Mitchell Report surpass the Hilton sex video in number of downloads?

Gwreck Dec 13 2007 12:48 PM

The geniuses preparing the report take great pains to redact Radomski's address, but leave his phone number right there for anyone to have?

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:53 PM

Gwreck wrote: The geniuses preparing the report take great pains to redact Radomski's address, but leave his phone number right there for anyone to have? page number? wow this guy is about to get a load of calls

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:54 PM

Clemens was injected in the ass with steroids.

Gwreck Dec 13 2007 12:54 PM

Don't remember. I was only skimming the thing.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:55 PM

Valadius wrote: Clemens was injected in the ass with steroids. "steroids"? so thats what they're calling it now? :)

themetfairy Dec 13 2007 12:57 PM

Kid Carsey wrote: I don't think I'll ever get used to (or at least not appreciate) that I can get things like a four hundred page report about something I'm interested in downloaded to my laptop in like four seconds as the news is breaking. Agreed - it's freakin' science fiction!

Valadius Dec 13 2007 12:57 PM

Todd Pratt used steroids in 2000 or 2001.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 12:59 PM

Pratt 'roided it over the wall in 1999 and just ruined my greatest baseball moment.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 01:02 PM

Radomski somehow found his way into the Mets locker room in 2003, when he put HGH in Mike Stanton's locker.

martin Dec 13 2007 01:03 PM

talkin heads on espn are pointing out clemens is just as asterisk worthy as bonds. if i were bonds i would be loving this. everyone is doing roids, but bonds still dominates them.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 01:05 PM

Hallelujah that Piazza's legacy is intact.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 13 2007 01:06 PM

That's the crazy thing. Bonds was prolly the besdt baseball player in the game before he started using. I guess he musta felt very threatened and in that sense alone is almost a victim of the epidemic.

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 01:09 PM

Valadius wrote: It's no surprise that Donnelly and Logan were cut loose now that this has come out. I suspect you're reading too much into the cause-and-effect here. Dozens of players were cut loose in the last few days because last night was a deadline for doing so. And even if it were known that those names were on the list, others also on it (Pettitte, LoDuca, Tejeda) were signed, re-signed, and/or traded for in the same time span. With testing in place now and the unliklihood of suspensions resulting from this report I don't think we're going to see teams running away from players solely because they were named.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 01:16 PM

]Paul Lo Duca Paul Lo Duca is a catcher who has played with three teams in Major League Baseball since 1998, the Los Angeles Dodgers (7 seasons), Florida Marlins (2 seasons), and New York Mets (2 seasons). He has appeared in four All-Star games. Todd Hundley referred Lo Duca to Radomski when Lo Duca played for the Dodgers. Radomski estimated that he engaged in six or more transactions with Lo Duca. In some transactions, Radomski sent the performance enhancing substances by overnight mail to Lo Duca’s home or to the Dodgers clubhouse and Lo Duca sent Radomski a check a week or so later. Radomski produced copies of three checks from Lo Duca, each in the amount of $3,200. All are included in the Appendix. Radomski said that each check was in payment for two kits of human growth hormone. Lo Duca’s name, with an address and telephone number, is listed in the address book seized from Radomski’s residence by federal agents. During that search, federal agents also seized a note from Lo Duca to Radomski. It read: Kirk, Sorry! But for some reason they sent the check back to me. I haven’t been able to call you back because my phone is TOAST! I have a new # it is [Lo Duca’s phone number is listed here]. Please leave your # again because I lost all of my phonebook with the other phone. Thanks Paul In 2002, Lo Duca was quoted by Sports Illustrated in an article responding to Ken Caminiti’s admission of steroid use. Lo Duca was reported to have said: “If you’re battling for a job, and the guy you’re battling with is using steroids, then maybe you say, ‘Hey, to compete, I need to use steroids because he’s using them . . . Don’t get me wrong. I don’t condone it. But it’s a very tough situation. It’s really all about survival for some guys.” According to the notes of an internal discussion among Los Angeles Dodgers officials in October 2003 that were referred to above, it was reportedly said of Lo Duca during the meetings: Steroids aren’t being used anymore on him. Big part of this. Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest. . . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives. . . . Can get comparable value back would consider trading. . . . If you do trade him, will get back on the stuff and try to show you he can have a good year. That’s his makeup. Comes to play. Last year of contract, playing for 05. On June 26, 2004, Lo Duca wrote a check to Radomski for $3,200. On July 30, 2004, the Dodgers traded Lo Duca, Guillermo Mota, and Juan Encarnacion to the Marlins. On August 7, 2004, Lo Duca issued another check to Radomski for $3,200. In January 2005, Lo Duca signed a three-year contract with the Marlins. The handwritten note shown below on Dodger Stadium stationary from Lo Duca to Radomski was seized from Radomski’s house during a search by federal agents. Radomski said that this note was included with a check Lo Duca sent Radomski as payment for human growth hormone. In order to provide Lo Duca with information about these allegations and to give him an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 01:16 PM

Val: >>>Piazza's legacy is intact<<< You really gotta stop. How do you know he didn't get his shit from the Cayman Islands? This is, uh, forget it ... I'm about to go off and may not be able to turn back.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 01:19 PM

Yeah, I'm with Kase. This doesn't eliminate ANYONE else from steroids. All it does is confirm some people.

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 01:21 PM

I had 'roid rage.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 01:22 PM

S'okay, we always kinda suspected you.

Valadius Dec 13 2007 01:23 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 01:25 PM

Lo Duca injected himself with steroids in 1999 while in AAA. OE: It's on pp. 230-232.

SteveJRogers Dec 13 2007 01:24 PM

Kase, you almost pulled a Rogers!

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 01:26 PM

Good one, Steve lol.

Centerfield Dec 13 2007 01:40 PM

While it doesn't exonerate him, I am happy that Piazza's name never surfaced...even as some of his teammates were listed and Radomski was operating right next door.

themetfairy Dec 13 2007 01:56 PM

Centerfield wrote: While it doesn't exonerate him, I am happy that Piazza's name never surfaced...even as some of his teammates were listed and Radomski was operating right next door. Agreed - I was geared up for one of those rough conversations with my little one about good people making bad choices. LoDuca and Pratt don't sting as much (Pratt's a former favorite, but very removed at this point). Being able to focus on Clemens and Pettite today is far better for us.

metsguyinmichigan Dec 13 2007 02:00 PM

Valadius wrote: Clemens was injected in the ass with steroids. So when Shawn Estes was aiming at his ass, he knew it would be sore already. Too bad he missed!

Valadius Dec 13 2007 02:01 PM

I was really surprised that Edgardo Alfonzo's name didn't come up.

Vic Sage Dec 13 2007 02:06 PM

These are all the names i could glean from the report: Other than those who’ve publicly failed drug tests (Palmiero, etc), the following players are named in the Mitchell report: [u:d38faca5fa]BALCO[/u:d38faca5fa] Marvin Benard Barry Bonds Bobby Estalella Jason Giambi Jeremy Giambi Armando Rios Benito Santiago Gary Sheffield Randy Velarde [u:d38faca5fa]RADOMSKI:[/u:d38faca5fa] Lenny Dykstra David Segui Larry Bigbie Brian Roberts Jack Cust Tim Laker Josias Manzanillo Todd Hundley Chris Donnels Mark Carreon Hal Morris Matt Franco Rondell White Roger Clemens Andy Pettitte Chuck Knoblauch. Jason Grimsley Gregg Zaun David Justice F.P. Santangelo Glenallen Hill Mo Vaughn Denny Neagle Ron Villone Ryan Franklin Todd Williams Phil Hiatt Todd Pratt Kevin Young Mike Lansing Cody McKay Kent Mercker Adam Piatt Miguel Tejada Jason Christiansen Mike Stanton Stephen Randolph Jerry Hairston, Jr. Paul Lo Duca Adam Riggs Bart Miadich Fernando Vina Kevin Brown Eric Gagné Mike Bell Matt Herges Gary Bennett, Jr. Jim Parque Brendan Donnelly Chad Allen Jeff Williams Howie Clark Nook Logan [u:d38faca5fa]OTHER SOURCES[/u:d38faca5fa] Mike Judd Ricky Stone Daniel Naulty [u:d38faca5fa]INTERNET SALES[/u:d38faca5fa] Rick Ankiel Paul Byrd Jay Gibbons Troy Glaus Jose Guillen Gary Matthews, Jr Scott Schoeneweis David Bell Jose Canseco Darren Holmes John Rocker Ismael Valdez Matt Williams Steve Woodard.

A Boy Named Seo Dec 13 2007 02:07 PM

Rondell White actually wrote something in the memo line of the check. Wish I could make that out. Probably says "Not Drugs". Mike Lansing was smart enough to get a money order, but couldn't resist signing it with his beautifully legible autograph.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 02:11 PM

Valadius wrote: I was really surprised that Edgardo Alfonzo's name didn't come up. Steve tried so hard to whisper it in.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 02:15 PM

Metskis BALCO No Mets shopped for drugs in the bay area, save for possibly phantom Met Benito Santiago, who was AAA property for a few weeks RADOMSKI: The home supermaket here. Lenny Dykstra David Segui Josias Manzanillo (way to shrink your last remaining ball, jackass) Todd Hundley Chris Donnels Mark Carreon Matt Franco David Justice (another phantom Met) Mo Vaughn Todd Pratt Mike Stanton Paul Lo Duca Fernando Vina Gary Bennett, Jr. OTHER SOURCES (Mets prefer mainstream sources.) INTERNET SALES Paul Byrd Gary Matthews, Jr Scott Schoeneweis John Rocker, I'm told, only bought his illegal drugs from English-speaking sources.

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 02:35 PM

Frayed Knot Dec 13 2007 02:37 PM

Selig's conf: - Mitchell Report made 20 seperate recommendations. One has already been implemented (elimination of the 24 hour warning of test) MLB [u:e53799026e]WILL[/u:e53799026e] implement those where it can do so independently of the Player's Assoc Will recommend and discuss those others that require PA approval with the PA - Will review each player listed on a case-by-case basis to determine if punishment is warranted - Are funding (with NFL) attempts to create a test for HGH detection

Valadius Dec 13 2007 02:40 PM

Selig may discipline players, despite Mitchell telling him not to.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 13 2007 02:42 PM

Today's top three UMDB lookups (so far): Lenny Dykstra Mark Carreon Todd Hundley

Valadius Dec 13 2007 02:49 PM

Selig refuses to take blame.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 03:02 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Dec 13 2007 09:32 PM

Best thing Selig could do is tender his resignation effective opening day. "I'm so proud of much of my legacy with this sport, but this happened during my watch. The last thing left I can do for this sport is to turn over the reins and start a new era. I congratulate Senator Mitchell, and it's clear to me that the problem hasn't been about this guy or that guy, systemic. I know that this game can redeem itself, but penance should start at the top. It has been an honor to be a part of this great tradition, and I pledge to use the rest of my tenure to assist my successor in starting a new era in which this problem is decisively behind us, for the good of the game, for the good or America, and for the good of our children. Irish tenor Ronan Tynan will now sing as I exit."

Kid Carsey Dec 13 2007 03:03 PM

Valad, there's a difference between suggesting and telling. You can't possibly be going to school where you go and be so dense.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 03:16 PM

Kid Carsey wrote: You can't possibly be going to school where you go and be so dense. you never know, maybe he got in on affirmative action?

TheOldMole Dec 13 2007 03:37 PM

Or negative action?

seawolf17 Dec 13 2007 04:01 PM

I would make a "special talent admissions" or "development case admissions" joke, but that would be crass and unprofessional.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 09:22 PM

a final "list" for anyone who cares Chad Allen Rick Ankiel David Bell Mike Bell Marvin Benard Gary Bennett Jr. Larry Bigbie Barry Bonds Kevin Brown Paul Byrd Jose Canseco Mark Carreon Jason Christiansen Howie Clark Roger Clemens Jack Cust Chris Donnels Brendan Donnelly Lenny Dykstra Bobby Estalella Matt Franco Ryan Franklin Eric Gagne Jason Giambi Jeremy Giambi Jay Gibbons Troy Glaus Jason Grimsley Jose Guillen Jerry Hairston Jr. Matt Herges Phil Hiatt Glenallen Hill Darren Holmes Todd Hundley David Justice Chuck Knoblauch Tim Laker Mike Lansing Paul Lo Duca Nook Logan Josias Manzanillo Gary Matthews Jr. Cody McKay Kent Mercker Bart Miadich Hal Morris Daniel Naulty Denny Neagle Jim Parque Andy Pettitte Adam Piatt Todd Pratt Stephen Randolph Adam Riggs Brian Roberts John Rocker F.P. Santangelo Benito Santiago David Segui Scott Schoeneweis Gary Sheffield Mike Stanton Miguel Tejada Mo Vaughn Ron Villone Fernando Vina Rondell White Jeff Williams Todd Williams Ismael Valdez Randy Velarde Matt Williams Steve Woodard Kevin Young Gregg Zaun

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 09:33 PM

Ozzie Canseco, the clean one.

MFS62 Dec 13 2007 09:48 PM

Just got home after an almost two hour fun-filled ride on barely plowed highways. So I haven't read the entire thread. (I need sleep) Two immediate thoughts: I guess one effect of taking that stuff is to make the user think that a piece of a bat is really a baseball. I wonder if Andy Petitte took the stuff before, or after, he made those TV ads selling bibles? Later

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 09:51 PM

I don't know what it's worth, but it sure flies in the face of the notion that the Latin-born population is using disproportionately. No Asian-born players on that list either, for what that's worth.

Nymr83 Dec 13 2007 10:00 PM

with the number of asian-born players in the game i think you'd expect to see what? .5 named on a list this size? (if it dates back to at least the mid-90's) so whether there was 0 or 1 doesnt really make a difference because at 1 they would have been over-represented. the lack of hispanics is more meaningful, one can draw the conclusion that either a) they don't use steroids at the same rate as american players or b) they dont procure their steroids from Balco, Radomski, or the internet sales busted by Soares.

Edgy DC Dec 13 2007 10:09 PM

I hope I made both of those statments in a tone that made clear that it was hard to conclude anything.

Nymr83 Dec 14 2007 12:02 AM

i didnt think otherwise

Edgy DC Dec 14 2007 06:16 AM

Point taken, though, that these sources may well just be those more frequented by American-born players.

MFS62 Dec 14 2007 06:54 AM

Many US prescription medications, such as antibiotics, are available over-the-counter in some Latin American countries. I wonder if that includes steroids. Later

metsmarathon Dec 14 2007 07:58 AM

i believe that to be frequently cited as the seeming majority of players who've actually tested positive have been latin, specifically dominican, iirc. that's a problem in itself that the mitchell report doesn't really touch on.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2007 08:05 AM

Part of that is that the majority of posativos are minor leaguers, who are disproportionately Latin American.

Centerfield Dec 14 2007 08:50 AM

I like how Asshead has become the face of the Mitchell Report.

smg58 Dec 14 2007 10:17 AM

True, but Lenny was always my favorite Met. Sure I resigned myself years ago to the likelihood that Dykstra juiced, but I can't justify gloating over Clemens.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2007 10:28 AM

i've resigned myself long ago to the reality that almost everything Dykstra did to make himself peeps' favorite Met was ingratiating nonsenese, and so it was hardly a disappointment. A big missing chapter of the Pete Rose story is how we enabled him by buying his bullshit act for so long and so facilitated two generations of phony-assed bellyfloppers like Dykstra and Damon.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2007 12:58 PM

]"Roger Clemens adamantly, vehemently, and whatever other adjectives can be used, denies that he has ever used steroids or ... improper substances," Clemens' attorney, Rusty Hardin, said Thursday. "...whatever other adjectives can be used"? OK, first of all, they're adverbs. Roger must be thinking, "Damn, counselor, I could have made a statement that dumb on my own."

seawolf17 Dec 14 2007 12:59 PM

Dude's name is "Rusty," and he's probably from Texas. I'm going to assume he didn't do so well in grammar class.

metirish Dec 14 2007 01:32 PM

seawolf17 wrote: Dude's name is "Rusty," and he's probably from Texas. I'm going to assume he didn't do so well in grammar class. I saw Rusty on TV last night and he looked like he was dressed up for St. Patrick's day with a light green suit , orange tie and green shirt, and it all looked very cheap. Meanwhile from the Times. ] By DUFF WILSON Published: December 15, 2007 One active Major League Baseball player was able to keep his name out of former Senator George J. Mitchell’s report of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball even though he bought them, Mr. Mitchell said Friday. When he was notified by Mitchell’s investigators that they had evidence linking him to buying drugs from a former New York Mets clubhouse employee, this player brought his lawyer and met with Mitchell. The player offered evidence that he had disposed of the drugs without using them.

Edgy DC Dec 14 2007 02:35 PM

Everybody's got their private angle: http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/105906.html http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/read/2007/12_14-34/SPO http://www.thestarpress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071214/NEWS01/712140344/1002 Your 2006 secondbaseman: Lenny Dykstra: http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/90479

OlerudOwned Dec 14 2007 02:42 PM

The Trentonian has my favorite angle:

sharpie Dec 14 2007 03:07 PM

I like the picture of Clemens under the banner "Baby Killer Freed"

G-Fafif Dec 14 2007 04:18 PM

Though I understand the post-report wishful thinking surrounding the Mets as default 2000 World Series champs is utterly, utterly nonsensical, I have to admit I had a vision earlier today of that year's N.L. Champions banner above the right field wall being upgraded and became a little verklempt. Like I said, utterly nonsensical. But still.

Edgy DC Dec 16 2007 06:10 PM

Radomski's inside track in getting hired by the Mets: Charlie Samuels.

Edgy DC Dec 17 2007 08:42 PM

The Dodgers have signed ephemeral Met Gary Bennett, perhaps the first to sign after being outed by Senator George Mitchell.

metirish Dec 18 2007 07:05 AM

] Orioles' Roberts says he used steroids once BALTIMORE (AP) - Breaking his silence on the inclusion of his name in the Mitchell Report, Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts admitted that he used steroids once in 2003. In an interview in Tuesday's editions of The Sun in Baltimore, Roberts acknowledged that he used steroids "once" in 2003. However, he said he hadn't used steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs since. In a statement he issued to the newspaper, Roberts said that after the single injection he immediately realized that it was not what he "stood for" or anything he wanted to continue doing. He said he's sorry he did it and said he regrets making what he says was a "terrible decision." Roberts was named in the Mitchell Report because former Orioles teammate Larry Bigbie told investigators Roberts had told him he used steroids "once or twice" in 2003.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2007 07:20 AM

I think we're seeing how thorough Mitchell's investigation was. If he found out that a player had used steroids twice, it was the only two times that he had done so. If he finds out that a player had used steroids once, that was, in fact, the one lone occurrence. Amazing!

Edgy DC Dec 18 2007 08:47 AM

And if you're not in the report... exonoration, Baby!

Vic Sage Dec 18 2007 11:27 AM

he should've gone with the Pettitte defense: "i did it to come back from injury faster, to help my team!" that excuse seems very popular.

Centerfield Dec 18 2007 11:29 AM

As long as we're all coming clean, in 2004 I once took a pre-natal vitamin. My wife had asked me to go get it for her from the kitchen, along with a glass of water. On the way back, I stopped to watch something unfold on TV, got distracted, popped the pill in my mouth, and washed it down with water. I knew immediately it was a mistake, that taking pre-natal vitamins was unnatural. From there on out, I made it a point never to go near that stuff again. I apologize for disappointing all of you, and I understand that by my actions, I may have tainted some of the posts I made in 2004. I am willing to accept this but I ask that we wipe the slate clean going forward. I am happy to cooperate fully in any investigation that may ensue and I urge you all to stay away from pre-natal vitamins.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2007 11:33 AM

I had a steroid injection in my right ear, on two occasions, in 1998. It was to reduce some scar tissue, but now I have bionic hearing. My shame knows no bounds. I was so relieved not to have been mentioned in the Mitchell Report.

soupcan Dec 18 2007 11:34 AM

I remembering thinking that that one post CF made about the pros and cons of breastfeeding was a bit suspiciuos.

themetfairy Dec 18 2007 12:02 PM

Centerfield wrote: As long as we're all coming clean, in 2004 I once took a pre-natal vitamin. My wife had asked me to go get it for her from the kitchen, along with a glass of water. On the way back, I stopped to watch something unfold on TV, got distracted, popped the pill in my mouth, and washed it down with water. I knew immediately it was a mistake, that taking pre-natal vitamins was unnatural. From there on out, I made it a point never to go near that stuff again. I apologize for disappointing all of you, and I understand that by my actions, I may have tainted some of the posts I made in 2004. I am willing to accept this but I ask that we wipe the slate clean going forward. I am happy to cooperate fully in any investigation that may ensue and I urge you all to stay away from pre-natal vitamins. Those things are the size of horse pills! Gotta wonder about what else CF was on that he could have confused for the PNV....

Vic Sage Dec 18 2007 12:13 PM

i had a series of epidural steroid injections, to deal with a ruptured disc. And I'm not sorry!! CF, be glad they weren't suppositories.

Centerfield Dec 18 2007 12:25 PM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I had a steroid injection in my right ear, on two occasions, in 1998. It was to reduce some scar tissue, but now I have bionic hearing. My shame knows no bounds. I was so relieved not to have been mentioned in the Mitchell Report. Yancy's abuse was obvious. When he showed up he was just a measly little database. Now he's a big muscular orange rocky dude. We all knew he was on something.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2007 12:52 PM

Yet you looked the other way. You can't escape your portion of the blame.

Willets Point Dec 18 2007 01:08 PM

I use a steroidal inhaler. I have sinuses of steel.

Edgy DC Dec 21 2007 08:09 AM

Notable is that there were players implicated by Radomski and others who weren't in the Mitchell report because of lack of corroboration. The players Mitchell named were exceeded the legal standard of hearsay, and would be admissable in court.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 21 2007 01:02 PM

Has Allen Watson been implicated in anything? A lot of people have been Googling him the last couple of days.

Edgy DC Dec 21 2007 01:04 PM

Watson was one of the ones implicated but not included in the report, according to recently unsealed affadavits.

Valadius Dec 21 2007 04:07 PM

Allen Watson was named in the Grimsley affidavit.

Edgy DC Dec 21 2007 05:37 PM

And if anything sounds like a bang-up Robert Ludlum novel, it's THE GRIMSLEY AFFADAVIT. Here's a reall Crane Pooler of a Ludlum novel:

Benjamin Grimm Dec 21 2007 05:45 PM

Is that one of the books that Ludlum wrote after he died? I can't say I'm thrilled with this trend of ghost-writers penning novels under the names of dead people. That's taking the term a bit too literally.

themetfairy Dec 21 2007 10:04 PM

Here's another Met name for the list - [url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/12/21/2007-12-21_exmet_sid_fernandez_named_in_radomski_af.html]Sid Fernandez[/url]. :(

Edgy DC Dec 21 2007 10:26 PM

Well, he didn't make the list the list. And Senator Mitchell kept him and others out for a reason.

Nymr83 Dec 21 2007 10:33 PM

]Perhaps the most notable new name to emerge from the affidavit is former Mets pitcher Sid Fernandez, who wrote a $3,500 check to Radomski in 2005, almost eight years after the lefty's last appearance in a major league game. The affidavit doesn't say what Fernandez got for his money. why the heck would you want roids when you're retired?

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 21 2007 11:05 PM

Sid tried a comeback with the MFYs around 05, no?

Edgy DC Dec 22 2007 12:30 AM

More like 02. Time goes faster when you're older.

AG/DC Jan 11 2008 01:47 PM

BALCO client Marion Jones gets six months in lockup today for lying to federal prosecutors.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 11 2008 01:55 PM

Clemens really seems to be positioning himself between a rock and a hard place, isn't he?

AG/DC Jan 11 2008 01:57 PM

I was more immediately concerned with Bonds, but yeah, this really makes this hearing that much more dramatic.

Nymr83 Feb 08 2008 01:03 PM

Radomski gets 5 years probation today. Is that what McNamee can expect?

metsmarathon Feb 08 2008 01:48 PM

i'd guess more, as his only jeopardy is in lying to federal prosecutors, not from injecting anyone with anything. lying to the feds is a much more bad thing to do, in their eyes, i would imagine.

Nymr83 Feb 08 2008 02:55 PM

well perjury certainly tops using illegal substances like steroids, but i'm not sure its higher up than distributing/selling.

metsmarathon Feb 08 2008 03:43 PM

according to the mitchell report, it seemed to me that he was administering the illegal substances - not engaging in the trade or exchange of them. i could be wrong, but that is my recollection. oe. never mind... talking about radomsky... ofe. never mind never mind. i'm having trouble following simple conversations.

AG/DC Feb 12 2008 07:38 AM

Things are really starting to burn up. John Rocker, with nothing to lose, is implicating Bud Selig. Andy Pettitte has gotten off the stand. These, according to the Detroit Free Press and other sources. As Pettitte is probably in the best position to either (a) cooberate MacNamee's story, (b) cooberate Clemens' story, or (c) perjure himself, I worry that we're looking at a whitewash. I do appreciate that the only file photo of John Rocker that the Free Press has is one of Rocker making a jerky face as runners circle the bases.

metirish Feb 12 2008 08:19 AM

From Newsday. ] The affidavit of Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte helps to support the account of Brian McNamee, Roger Clemens' former trainer, that he gave Clemens injections of banned drugs, according to a ranking member of the congressional committee investigating the use of illegal drugs in baseball. Newsday.com first reported the story last night after interviewing Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.) yesterday. Davis said that in an affidavit given to the House Oversight Committee, Pettitte's account matches McNamee's in most details, but that in a separate affidavit to the committee, Clemens said both are mistaken. Sources said McNamee has told investigators that in the winter of 2002, he, Clemens and Pettitte were working out together at the gym in Clemens' Houston home. According to the sources, McNamee says that during a break in the workout, Pettitte went over to McNamee by himself and asked: "How come you don't give me the stuff you give Roger?" McNamee supposedly replied, "Because it's illegal."

AG/DC Feb 12 2008 08:27 AM

Well, that's better. (Rusty Hardin)This just goes to show what a sick indivual we're dealing with here. Mr. Pettitte is clearly obsessed with destroying Roger and all the good he's done for baseball.(/Rusty Hardin)

soupcan Feb 12 2008 09:45 AM

Clemens can still deny it. "Look, as far as I know, as far as McNamee told me - it was B-12. If he told Andy it was something else, well, that's news to me." Unless they got Clemens purchasing the stuff or someone else saying something that can only be interpereted as Clemens having absolute knowledge that what was being injected was HGH or whatever, they'll never be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Clemens knew. We can all come to that logical conclusion of course but I really think that without a definitive account, he's gonna walk away. I suppose with Pettitte's statement though, his legacy is sufficiently sullied (as if it were'nt already) and his HOF election (which I'm supposing is the impetus behind all this for Clemens) will not be made on the first ballot and will not be unanimous.

metsmarathon Feb 12 2008 09:51 AM

clemens would've been so much better off if he had offered as meaningless an admission as pettitte did.

AG/DC Feb 12 2008 10:02 AM

It certainly won't be unanimous. He needs a complete vindication. And the oly way he's going to do that is to produce video of MacNamee saying "I'm going to sully that boy scout's reputation no matter how many lies I have to tell." For what it's worth, I'm prety sure MacNamee's position is that Clemens provided it to him to inject. If true, there's another witness out there somewhere who provided it to Clemens.

Rockin' Doc Feb 12 2008 10:54 AM

Soupcan - "Clemens can still deny it." I'm sure he will to his last breath.

metirish Feb 14 2008 08:27 AM

Andy "the truth" Pettite admits to more HGH use in 2004, remember after the report came out he said he used it two times in 2002....turns out he used it in 2004 and that he got it from his Dad, he was using it for various ailments. ] "My dad had been using it," Pettitte said in his deposition, describing his father's heart condition. "He ended up bringing me two syringes over to my house. And you know, I injected myself once in the morning and once at night. ... I did it for that day. And to this day, I don't know why. ... I was desperate and you know I really knew that it wasn't going to help me. My flexor tendon was already torn. I knew I needed surgery. I would just say just out of desperation I tried to do it again. But that was the extent of it." Didn't he say that 2002 was the extent of it as well?

AG/DC Feb 14 2008 08:29 AM

The truth comes in drips and drabs usually.

themetfairy Feb 14 2008 08:50 AM

With friends like Andy the Rat Faced Boy, Clemens doesn't need any enemies.