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M-Day Plus One

Edgy DC Dec 14 2007 06:21 AM

What's Neyer saying? Aaron Gleeman? Ben Jacobs? How 'bout that Lisa Olson? I want to hear from the best baseball writers NOW!!!! Is Roger Angell still writing?

themetfairy Dec 14 2007 06:42 AM

[url=http://jimcaple.net/index.php?entry=entry071214-011418]Here's Jim Caple[/url], and he [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3154116]links to Jayson Stark[/url].

themetfairy Dec 14 2007 06:52 AM

Here are the thoughts of [url=http://faithandfear.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/12/14/3409306.html]one of the best baseball writers around[/url].

metirish Dec 14 2007 06:56 AM

I watched more coverage of this than I thought I would, Tim Kurkjian made me go "Huh" when he said that there is no way Clemens so vehemently denies these allegations if there was any truth to what McNamee told Mitchell. Here is John Harper playing good cop bad cop with Petitte. ] Pettitte's blemish is surprising and sad You can't be surprised by anything anymore when it comes to ballplayers finding a way to cheat, not after the tidal wave of drug revelations in baseball over the last several years. But if you care about the game, you want to believe there are at least some you can trust for their integrity as well as their talent. Andy Pettitte was one of those guys for me. And now it seems he's just another drug cheat, as fingered Thursday by the Mitchell Report. Roger Clemens is the big fish on the list, the name that gives the Mitchell Report a bombshell quality. Yet it's hard to imagine that Yankee fans are either surprised or terribly saddened by the inclusion of Clemens, who was always seen as something of a carpetbagger after forcing the trade that brought him in on the back end of the Yankees' championship run. Pettitte is a different story. For one thing, he was a homegrown Yankee who delivered time and again in October. For another, he has that unassuming, down-home quality that always made him so easy for fans to embrace. And for anyone covering baseball, Pettitte has always been one of the good guys, admirable for his toughness on the mound and his accountability in the clubhouse. It was only recently that he seemed to reinforce his reputation for integrity, re-signing with the Yankees after taking time to decide if he wanted to play another season, essentially proving that he hadn't been looking for a better deal by first declining his 2008 option. Still, none of this means Pettitte gets a pass for cheating. There are circumstances, sure. It seems clear that Pettitte wasn't on the same drug-cheat level as Clemens. Unless they can prove that their trainer, Brian McNamee, was lying for some reason, Clemens comes off as a hardcore steroid user, going all the way back to 1998, while Pettitte used human growth hormone primarily to help recover from an elbow injury during the 2002 season. You can even make the case that Pettitte never would have taken such a route if not for his association with Clemens, who introduced him to McNamee and made Pettitte a partner in his famous workout routine after coming over to the Yankees in 1999. But again, it doesn't forgive him for cheating. McNamee says he injected Pettitte before the '02 season, and, if nothing else, you want to believe the Yankee lefthander hasn't continued to use it since then. But that's probably a naïve outlook, especially considering the fact that he has been plagued with more elbow problems, needing surgery in 2004 during the first of his three seasons with the Astros. Neyer isn't saying much right now on "Insider"

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 14 2007 07:14 AM

Bob Raissman in the Snooze buries ESPN and YES for their failure to take proper advantage of access to respecticve staffers Vina and Justice in covering the story.

metirish Dec 14 2007 07:40 AM

Here's a sometimes funny look at the report from the Slate people. http://www.slate.com/id/2179971/fr/flyout

Benjamin Grimm Dec 14 2007 05:34 PM

Official statement from the New York Mets regarding the Mitchell Report: ]"The Mets support Major League Baseball's ongoing efforts to eliminate the use of illegal performance enhancing substances. We fully cooperated in the Mitchell investigation and commend the Senator for his efforts in issuing his report."

Frayed Knot Dec 15 2007 08:05 AM

[url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/12142007/sports/yankees/game_has_become_dirty_shame_115506.htm]Kevin Kernan in the NYPost[/url] gets himself a bit over-heated "the game has never been sicker. This is worse than the Black Sox scandal. This is worse than the Pete Rose betting scandal." No it isn't Kevin.

metsmarathon Dec 15 2007 11:20 AM

you mean players taking steroids to improve upon their abilities and performances isn't the same thing as players and managers possibly predetermining the outcome of games, including world series games, under pressure from gamblers? no!

Edgy DC Dec 15 2007 06:07 PM

Well, to play his part, there is a fix of sorts in if some guys are playing by one rule book and others are playing by another.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2007 07:30 PM

Kiernan has vowed not to vote for FP Santangelo for the Hall of Fame... ever.

Edgy DC Dec 15 2007 08:33 PM

A close read of the report by Bill Pennington traces this whole wave of the epidemic through Hundley and Segui. LoDuca, the field leader whose trade rocked the Dodger clubhouse, whose absence was so acutely felt that the manager protested his trade by wearing his number, was pretty much Steroid Mary in that locker room.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 15 2007 08:49 PM

Clemens turned blue denying it all while Pettitte today came clean, but remarkably (!),he cops only to the minimum of what what the Mitchell Report contained. Sure, Andy, you got caught the two and only times you used. Oh and it was in service of healing an injury so it was OK. Pettitte denied involvement to the media a year ago.

Edgy DC Dec 15 2007 09:23 PM

I have no doubt that a significant percentage of these guys rationalize it to themselves (at least initially) that it was about getting healthy, and not about getting a competitive advantage. The thing is, what catcher doesn't need to get healthy? The big difference between regular catchers and backups is that that the regulars can go five days a week without the toll on their bodies being felt in their bats.

HahnSolo Dec 16 2007 07:34 AM

But Andy, using it to get healty faster is a competitive advantage, whether you want to call it that or not.

Edgy DC Dec 17 2007 07:15 AM

CJ defends MacNamee. The thing is that the main ones who this guy really needs defense from is Roger Clemens and his lawyer. Lower Hudson Online Suffern native Nitkowski defends embattled trainer McNamee By C.J. NITKOWSKI FOR THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (Original publication: December 17, 2007) Suffern native C.J. Nitkowski pitched for several major-league teams, including the Yankees and Mets, from 1995-2005. He played in Japan this year and writes periodically for The Associated Press. He trained for seven years with Brian McNamee, the strength coach who implicated Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte in the Mitchell Report. Following the release of the Mitchell Report, the name of Brian McNamee was thrust upon the baseball world. Already known in some of baseball's smaller circles, Mac has become synonymous with Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and steroids. Let me share who this trainer really is. I've known Mac for more than 10 years and I have been a client of his since 2001. It pains me to see what he was forced to do, and you can be assured it has been awful for him. Mac is one of the best in his field and he takes his job seriously. He is well educated in exercise science with multiple degrees and is even more dedicated to his clients. This is testimony he never wanted to give. Only when it appeared that jail time was imminent and when he was under immense pressure did he give federal investigators and Senator Mitchell the information they were looking for. On Saturday, two days after the report was released, Andy Pettitte acknowledged he twice used HGH. A reckless conclusion would be that Mac is a "rat." For those who believe such a thing, I'd recommend less television. This is real life, not "The Sopranos," and with a family, Mac was left with no other alternative. There are a lot of people I love in my life, but none more than my family. There isn't a friend or teammate that I would desert my family for and go to jail. An inaccurate assumption that has bothered me is that Mac pushes and supplies steroids. In my seven years of training with him, Mac never suggested or even hinted that I might want to consider taking steroids or HGH, even when I suggested it. He believed strongly in his program and so do I. During my first year of training with Mac, I was seriously considering getting on the juice. I was coming off a bad year and was looking for ways to make improvements. Getting on Mac's strength and conditioning program was part of the equation. I thought maybe the steroid Winstrol would be another. I consulted Mac about it. He answered all my questions and clarified things I had heard in the clubhouse from other guys who I knew were taking it. It was 2001, quite possibly the height of the Steroid Era. At no time did he ever tell me it was a good idea. Because he cares about his clients, Mac wouldn't let them do something like steroids without knowing what they were getting into. What they were and how to take them is information someone with his level of expertise would have. His preference would be that guys just take the over-the-counter supplements we use and stay on his program. But Mac is not dumb. He knows that once an athlete has decided to take a performance-enhancing drug, there is no changing his mind. His concern was that if a client chose to take them, he would take them the right way, reducing the risks that are associated with steroid abuse and misuse. In the end, I decided against it. Not because of Major League Baseball and not because of health risks. I chose not to use steroids because I was concerned with the potential legal trouble I could get into possessing or buying them. Had I taken them, most certainly my name would have been in the Mitchell Report and I would have had to have an uncomfortable conversation with my two children. Luckily for me, I didn't have a trainer who encouraged me to take them. That is not who Brian McNamee is, even when I, as his client, suggested it might be a good idea. Is he a saint and innocent in all of this? No. But it would be wrong to assume that the man who trained two of the best pitchers of my generation is liar or a steroid pusher. Big boys make big-boy decisions, and if we get caught we must stand up and face the consequences. As disappointing as it is to hear, I don't doubt what he was forced to say is true. I don't have proof and I can't corroborate his testimony. Mac had no motivation to lie. What matters to me is that my trainer is not misunderstood for who he really is. He is dedicated to his profession and to his clients, and having to do this was the last thing he ever wanted to do.

Edgy DC Dec 17 2007 07:22 AM

Jaw-dropping: http://blog.silive.com/yankeeswatch/2007/12/pettitte_once_again_shows_noth.html

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2007 07:35 AM

McNamee, who is not a doctor, has apparently done little to disabuse that notion. The education CJ Nitkowski is so proud of came from one of those diploma factory schools, sez Mike Lupica.

Edgy DC Dec 17 2007 07:38 AM

I guess he did need defending. Mike Lupica, BC grad, correct?

Frayed Knot Dec 17 2007 07:50 AM

At least part of MacNamee's education was at St. Johns. Eddie Coleman had a lenghty (maybe 30 min?) radio interview with CJ-Nit on Saturday. Living in the Atlanta area and getting ready to pitch his 2nd consectutive season for Sudahara Oh in Japan, CJ comes off much better than the standard jock interview where real questions and interesting answers both run out within 10 minutes. In it he gave similar answers - if longer and more detailed - to what the above article says, both about himself and about the type of advice MacNamee gave him.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2007 07:54 AM

Here's the relevant passage from Lip, who spends most of his column this morning firebombing Scott Boras, referred to as "he" in the first sentence: ]Maybe by "medical practitioners" he means guys like Brian McNamee, who says he gave Andy Pettitte HGH to speed Pettitte's recovery from an elbow injury in 2002. Maybe Boras, who knows so much about these drugs, probably just as a practical matter, knows that McNamee - who is also in the Mitchell Report for shooting up Roger Clemens with steroids - used to refer to himself occasionally as "Dr. McNamee," was featured once in InVite's promotional magazine as "Dr. Brian McNamee, Ph.D," even once used "McNameePHD" as an e-mail address. McNamee told people he earned his doctorate at Columbus University, in Louisiana. Except don't try to find it in Louisiana now, it's moved to Mississippi because the state of Louisiana shut it down six years ago for being a "diploma mill." Moving around like this happens all the time with Harvard and Yale.

metirish Dec 17 2007 08:10 AM

Edgy DC wrote: Jaw-dropping: http://blog.silive.com/yankeeswatch/2007/12/pettitte_once_again_shows_noth.html WOW, needs to be read to appreciate how bad this is.

seawolf17 Dec 17 2007 08:16 AM

metirish wrote: ="Edgy DC"]Jaw-dropping: http://blog.silive.com/yankeeswatch/2007/12/pettitte_once_again_shows_noth.html WOW, needs to be read to appreciate how bad this is. ]remember, in a perfect world, we'd all be Yankees. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 17 2007 08:20 AM

seawolf17 wrote: ]remember, in a perfect world, we'd all be Yankees. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth. We very nearly had another Oprah Winfrey moment there. I was just about to post something uncannily similar but I saw the above post in the nick of time.

Rockin' Doc Dec 17 2007 08:27 AM

"...remember, in a perfect world, we'd all be Yankees." Sounds more like my definition of hell.

metirish Dec 17 2007 10:52 AM

Stark. ] PED era: It's all or none for HOFposted: Monday, December 17, 2007 | No, the Mitchell Report has not and will not "change baseball" (as so many have suggested). It's certainly given Hall of Fame voters something to think about, though. ESPN Radio's Mike Greenberg isn't a voter, but last week on his show he said what a lot of voters are thinking … I think when all of the dust settles and you look back on the era in it's totality, you will have to come to the conclusion that an overwhelming number of players were using performance-enhancing drugs. … You either will have to put in absolutely no one; you will have to vote for no one who played between nineteen eighty-pick-a-year, 1985, 1988, whatever, it is, and … you could say, from 1988 through the time when they instituted the testing. But look, we all know, all of these guys, none of them tested positive, or very few of them. Roger Clemens name is in here: he didn't test positive. These guys know how to beat the testing, the smart ones. Barry Bonds never failed a drug test. So the point is, you will either have to put in absolutely no one in, or after several years have gone by, you will look back at the thing rationally and say, "Okay, there was a colossal problem -- not just in baseball but in all sports -- and the reality is, we still have to separate the very best players from the rest and put them in the Hall of Fame." Let's put it this way: at the very least, if it was me, I would do it that way, and I would put in Bonds and Clemens. A number of Hall of Fame voters have weighed in lately, and this is not an uncommon sentiment: "We must vote for none of them, or all of them." In baseball, if a batter's struck by a pitch but made no effort to get out of the way, the umpire's not supposed to give him first base. But you'll rarely see that call. Why? Because umpires don't like to use their judgment unless they absolutely have to. Performance-enhancing drugs offer a chance for Hall of Fame voters to use their judgment, and some of them would rather not. Some of them would prefer to keep things simple, and vote only for hitters with 3,000 hits and pitchers with 300 wins. Or for their friends. But good grief, shouldn't we expect more from those entrusted with the highest honor in professional sports? My measure (at least for the moment) is this: If PEDs had never been invented, would this player have finished his career with Hall of Fame numbers? In the cases of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, I believe the answer is yes. In the case of Mark McGwire, I believe the answer is no. Granted, most cases aren't nearly as easy as those. But if choosing Hall of Famers was supposed to be easy, they'd let all of us do it. (tip of the cap to BTF)

metsmarathon Dec 17 2007 11:30 AM

metirish wrote: ="Edgy DC"]Jaw-dropping: http://blog.silive.com/yankeeswatch/2007/12/pettitte_once_again_shows_noth.html WOW, needs to be read to appreciate how bad this is. ]The report was incomplete and if you can't expose every last former user, names shouldn't have been included. and yet, the blogger in question goes on to name players HE suspects. i would ask, if he cannot identify all of the players that he considers PED suspects, then he should also refrain from naming any PED suspects. also, the logical extension of his argument is that we would never, ever know who had taken PEDs, as it would be impossible to prove that every former user has been identified. the report is incomplete, certainly. but that doesn't invalidate what content is has. in his perfect world, there would be no baseball, and being a yankee would be meaningless, as what would the yankees be without competition? a bunch of guys wearing matching shirts. and do we really really want just to be a bunch of guys wearing matching shirts? that's just gay.

Edgy DC Dec 17 2007 12:11 PM

Apply the "unless we can get everybody, we should leave the ones we know of alone" theory to any area of justice. It's ridiculous. You could hear his computer straining to keep from punching him.

Nymr83 Dec 17 2007 12:27 PM

]The report was incomplete and if you can't expose every last former user, names shouldn't have been included. unless we can convict all the murderers, set the rest free unless we can catch everyone who is running drugs, we shouldn't catch any of them unless... absurd.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Dec 17 2007 12:30 PM

Not for nothing but that site is dying for comments, why doncha go over there and give a few.

themetfairy Dec 17 2007 12:38 PM

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/071217&sportCat=mlb]Jemele Hill of ESPN has a column titled, "Pettite's Apology Was A Joke."[/url] Sample quote - ]Some people are racing to pat Pettitte on the back for being one of three players thus far to fall on their swords after being fingered in the Mitchell report. But Pettitte's apology for taking HGH is totally meaningless, and the excuses he offers for his misdeed rank right up there with, "I was just smoking weed for my glaucoma."

Nymr83 Dec 17 2007 01:18 PM

i've read her before and come away with the opinion that she is racist. If Pettite was white she'd be defending him just as she has defende Bonds and Vick in the past.

metsmarathon Dec 17 2007 02:55 PM

="Nymr83"]i've read her before and come away with the opinion that she is racist. If Pettite was white she'd be defending him just as she has defende Bonds and Vick in the past. just what color is andy pettitte? also, i hate when people get paid for typing things like "riiiiighhhttt" use italics or something instead, fer chrissakes. there's better ways to put sarcastic emphasis in text that just by doing the drawn out spelling shit. and even if that's really what you want to do, what's with the extra h's and t's, with regulation r's and g's? the drawing out is done all on the i. nobody's getting their money's worth by overpronouncing the t. having not read her words on bonds and/or vick, i can only say that i agree with her on handy andy's "apology"

Nymr83 Dec 17 2007 04:08 PM

i meant to say if pettite were black. she defends bonds and vick.

Frayed Knot Dec 18 2007 12:41 PM

="metirish"] ="Edgy DC"]Jaw-dropping: http://blog.silive.com/yankeeswatch/2007/12/pettitte_once_again_shows_noth.html WOW, needs to be read to appreciate how bad this is. The attitude of this blogger has also been a staple of talk radio since the release of the Mitchell report: There's no proof! .... you can't believe a corrunpt trainer ... Mitchell is picking on the Yanquis because he's a Boston fan ... why aren't Papi & Manny on the list ... etc. Waah fucking Waah!! It's enough to make you wonder whether MFY fans are becoming more insufferable as non-winners than they were during their run. On a similar note, minor league prospect guru John Sickels is taking a leave of absence from his own website and its ongoing analysis of team-by-team prospects due to sniping from fans (his lists invite comments and discussion) which followed the posting of his NYY list. It seems that Yanqui fans, in the absence of championships, are reduced to hanging their hats on the belief that their up-and-comers are superior to those of all other teams (particularly the Sawx not surprisingly) or else use the same sort of anti-Yanqui bias claims if/when others don't see it that way.

Benjamin Grimm Dec 18 2007 12:54 PM

Well, in a perfect world...

Valadius Dec 18 2007 12:58 PM

They're simply insufferable. Why on earth would you spend time picking on someone like Sickels?

Frayed Knot Dec 18 2007 01:56 PM

="Valadius"]Why on earth would you spend time picking on someone like Sickels? Because he graded your player as a B- instead of a B+ Such sins can not be tolerated. And to be fair, I have little tolerance for Met fans who spend as much time and energy hunting for anti-NYM bias as Joe McCarthy did with communists. It's just that that attitude from NYY fans seems to be flowering as if from a rare desert rain on account of their title-less run here - especially since we now have fans old enough to enter these discussions who don't remember when they weren't a playoff team. I've yet to hear a talk-radio caller to introduce himself as "a long suffering Yanqui fan", but I honestly think that day is coming quickly.

Nymr83 Dec 18 2007 02:23 PM

if a caller EVER introduces himself as a suffering yankee fan he should be hung up on immediately.

themetfairy Dec 19 2007 01:12 PM

Fyrebug Mitchell Report game