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Frayed Knot Jan 16 2008 08:12 AM

NY Sen Chuckles Schumer [url=http://www.syracuse.com/articles/chiefs/index.ssf?/base/news-13/1200045388142330.xml&coll=1] is actively lobbying for Syracuse[/url] to drop its long-standing (30 years) affiliation with the Blue Jays when their agreement runs out after the 2008 season with an eye towards striking one with the Mets. Schumer is described as a "longtime friend" of Fred Wilpon and claims that the Wilpons like the idea of having their top two minor league teams just 75 miles apart and within reach of NYC. Schumer, of course, is working the angle that it would be good for NYS in general. No discussions can (legally) take place until the 2008 season ends in September. That's when all the current 2-year deals run out and a two-week window opens on the bi-annual game of musical chairs begins where teams either re-up their agreements at all levels of the minors or look to strike better deals with other cities. In other news, Richmond Virginia is now open territory as the Braves just announced that they [url=http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/business/?p=64]will not renew[/url] their 42-year affiliation with the Virginia capitol and will move their AAA team to ... Atlanta! Suburban Gwinnett county, actually, some 20 miles outside of urban Atlanta. Interesting concept having a team so close to the major league one. I know some hockey teams have had this - the Philly Flyers had (or maybe still have) their top farm club playing in their old building across the street for a while. Boston-Pawtucket and Phoenix-Tuscon are probably the closest right now. The Braves cite the "antiquated" state of the stadium in Richmond (although barely 20 years old) and the slow pace on talks to replace what has been described as "the worst facility in AAA baseball today" as their reasons for leaving. So one would suspect that any new team thinking of moving there would want a new stadium deal before committing (not easy to do by next April unless they get going NOW!!!!). But it does open up an east coast city with a long tradition of top level minor league baseball and there's an eastern team who wound up with a PCL team when the music stopped during the last shuffle period who even has ties to minor league ball in the state of Virginia.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 16 2008 08:18 AM

I too have been advocating the Mets going to Syracuse for a while now. My scenario had the Blue Jays taking Ottawa. But I think Ottawa is no longer in the league. Is the same fate going to befall Richmond? The Gwinnett County location isn't currently in the International League, and I don't think the IL is expanding. If some other team were to claim Richmond, then their former city would be left without a team. (At least, that's how I understand it.) If the Mets were to take Syracuse, (which was their original 1962 Triple-A home, by the way) wouldn't some other team have to go from the IL to the PCL? Otherwise both leagues would have an odd number of teams. Our discussion of the demise of Ottawa

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 16 2008 08:35 AM

Yes the Braves moving to Gwinnett was announced as a done deal yesterday. Richmond has had minor league ball forever. I am sure the Mets will be in Syracuse next season, they just have to act like it's a mystery while there's still a season to be played elsewhere.

Frayed Knot Jan 16 2008 08:38 AM

Cities - actually an ownership group within a city - have to first establish an agreement with the various minor leagues (Intl & PCL for AAA; the Eastern, Southern or Texas Leagues for AA, etc) for them to land a team. So, yes, a balance has to remain within the leagues and a new ownership group in Richmond would need to strike an agreement with the IL [u:b986c8e056]in place of[/u:b986c8e056] an existing city in order to attract a new team. The Mets wound up in N'awlins after the last shuffle because there were no IL cities left when the music stopped (I think Mont/Wash moved their AAA team from the PCL to the Int'l). In the case of the Braves, they actually own their AAA team (most clubs don't) which is how they can decide now where they're going to play next year.

AG/DC Jan 16 2008 08:40 AM

Here's hoping the Nats cut from the Yankee-lovin' Columbians and send John Stearns to Richmond. It'll be the last step in reconciliation between the blue and the gray.

Farmer Ted Jan 16 2008 09:15 AM

I'm a proponent of the Mets moving the AAA squad to Brooklyn but I know there are obstacles to that.

Edgy DC Jan 16 2008 09:26 AM

Huge.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 16 2008 09:36 AM

Farmer Ted wrote: I'm a proponent of the Mets moving the AAA squad to Brooklyn but I know there are obstacles to that. While we're blue-skying, how about this thought: AAA to Binghamton (International League), AA to Brooklyn (Eastern League), and A to somewhere on Long Island (New York-Penn League).

Willets Point Jan 16 2008 09:49 AM

I would love for the Mets to have a AAA team in the IL North so I can see them play road games in Pawtucket again. The IL has an unbalanced schedule so even when the Mets had the Tides in the IL South they only visited Pawtucket once per season.

Fman99 Jan 16 2008 09:58 AM

I would be A-Fucking-OK with the Mets AAA team coming up my way, believe you me. I agree -- they have to dance around this point during 2008 so that people in Nawlins continue to come out for games. Otherwise you get the whole "Isotopes moving to Albequerque" scenario a la the Simpsons.

metsguyinmichigan Jan 21 2008 08:30 AM

It's tough to switch levels, especially when the major league team doesn't own the minor league team. I was talking to someone from the local Midwest-A team here about moving up to AA or Triple-A. They told me it would cost $80 million just to pay the higher league as the price of admission. And since attendance wasn't likely to surge -- they already draw well -- there was no real financial incentive to do that. That said, the Tigers have a pretty swet arrangement. The Triple-A team is in Toldeo, an hour south, and the Midwest-A team here in Grand Rapids is just two hours away. We get players rehabbing once in a while. The AA team is in Erie, which isn't too far.

DocTee Jan 21 2008 08:41 AM

The A's AAA squad (Rivercats) is in Sacramento and the Giants are in Fresno. I've been to Raleys Field to watch the Rivercats and will be there again when the Zephyrs pay a visit. It's a great venue, particularly for kids. For the life of me, I can't understand why the Giants don't jump into San Jose. I guess they feel that that particular market is pretty safe in their camp? The A's are/were prevented from moving there due to territorial constraints (think Orioles as a roadblock to th Nats) so they are now relocating to Fremont, which is in the mddle of nowhere.

AG/DC Jan 21 2008 08:45 AM

Why would the Athletics be constrained and not the Giants?

DocTee Jan 21 2008 08:59 AM

I guess because the Giants were in the region first? Alls I know is that the Giants blocked an an A's attempt to relocate to the South Bay, leaving Oakland with such unattractive options as: Oakland (current digs), Fremont, and Oakland (new ballpark? yeah, sure!) again. Given those choices, I'd just as soon move ninety minutes north to Sacramento. As the largest city in the Bay Area, San Jose would be a natural fit for either the ML A's, AAA Giants, or even the NFL 49ers (who are looking to move to Santa Clara, just on the SJ outskirts). And while I'm at it, the Raiders need to go back to LA, but the sweetheart deal they got from local lawmakers means that will not happen (Raider games rarely sell out, meaning no local telecast, but Al Davis is reimbursed by the city for all seats not sold).

Benjamin Grimm Jan 21 2008 09:06 AM

That business with San Jose never did make sense to me. Would the Athletics also be able to block the Giants from moving to San Jose? I could understand it if the Giants blocked, say the Marlins from moving to San Jose; it would infringe on their territory and create additional competition for them. But the A's are already in the Giants region, so what's the difference? Could the Mets have blocked the Yankees from building a stadium in Nassau County? Could the Yankees have blocked the Mets from building a stadium in Westchester? I guess I can see the logic in that, but if the Mets moved to the Yankees' north, then they'd be conceding the south and the east, so it should all be a wash in the long run.

AG/DC Jan 21 2008 09:24 AM

My understanding is that the Mets and Yankees have veto power over most of the same territory, and that's why they had to introduce minor league clubs into the area simultaneously --- under a mutual agreement to waive the veto, and also provide highly financed competitions for any independent minors who wanted to roll the dice in New York. I would figure the same is true for the Giants and Athletics --- unless the proposed San Jose site is within X miles of one stadium and not the other.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 21 2008 09:29 AM

I think it's closer to San Francisco than it is to Oakland, but it's further from San Francisco than Oakland is. So the A's moving to San Jose would get them further away from the Giants, which, you'd think, the Giants would like. But in the end, if they vetoed San Jose and directed the Athletics to Freemont instead, that probably worked out better for the Giants than the first plan.

Frayed Knot Jan 21 2008 09:59 AM

]As the largest city in the Bay Area, San Jose would be a natural fit for either the ML A's, AAA Giants San Jose already does host the California League (High A) Giants farm team. As to why San Jose doesn't become a AAA team instead of an A+ team considering the size of SJ I'm not sure although, as MGiM notes, the big club doesn't usually own their minor lg affiliates and can't simply make the switch on their own. The SJ stadium might not neet AAA standards (even though the city certainly would) so an upgrade might be needed first. Also, the SJ owners group would need to convince the PCL to include them in their league while dumping Fresno, something the PCL might not be inclined to do if Fresno has been a long-standing successful town. They might welcome a SJ application but would prefer to dump a different city instead. ]That business with San Jose never did make sense to me. Would the Athletics also be able to block the Giants from moving to San Jose? That situation out there seems to be based on the whole 'different cities yet same market' mindset. Territorial rights is one of the few places where MLB's anti-trust exemption still has some free reign and so those two teams have drawn an 'East Bay - West Bay' line of demarcation where one has veto power over the other on their side of a point which is more or less at the southern point of San Francisco Bay. So, I believe, the Giants could move to SJ w/o Oakland permission but not the other way around. By the same token the Giants couldn't move to Fremont on their own and have no power to stop Oakland from doing so. btw, back to the Richmond situation for a minute; several Carolina League teams (A+) have already expressed interest in moving to Richmond when the affiliate FA-gency season opens up this coming fall. The stadium there, which turned off the Braves and is apparently sub-par for AAA standards, is probably an upgrade for most Car Lg teams, as would the city's population. The CL is an 8-team league currently in Frederick, Md; Wilmington, Del; Lynchburg, Salem & Potomac, Viginia; Winston-Salem & Kinston, NC.; plus Myrtle Beach, SC. The Mets don't have an affiliate in that league.

sharpie Jan 21 2008 01:53 PM

The Giants considered moving to San Jose in the late '70's-early '80's. Former GM Tom Haller was a big proponent. The deal for getting the Giants to allow the A's to move from Kansas City to Oakland was that everything west of the SF Bay was their exclusive territory and everything east of it was the A's.

Benjamin Grimm Jan 21 2008 02:54 PM

I don't remember the San Jose thing. I do remember that there was a time when the Giants to Toronto looked like a done deal. That must have been 1976 or earlier, of course, before the Blue Jays were awarded their expansion franchise. (I also remember when the White Sox were headed to Tampa and when the Athletics were headed to Denver. Also Padres to Washington, DC.)