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AG/DC
Jan 22 2008 07:39 AM

New York's City Council attempting to force Bud Selig into a no-win spot.



Clemente's No. 21 May Be Retired From Play
By BENJAMIN SARLIN
Special to the Sun
January 22, 2008


Hispanic baseball pioneer Roberto Clemente's uniform number 21 will be retired from use by all 30 teams in Major League Baseball if the New York City Council has its way.

The council will debate a resolution today calling on the commissioner of baseball, Allan "Bud" Selig, to permanently set aside Clemente's number in honor of the player's achievements on and off the field.

Only Brooklyn Dodger Jackie Robinson, who broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball, has been previously afforded such an honor. Mr. Selig announced at a 1997 event commemorating the 50th anniversary of Robinson's first game that no player would ever again be allowed to wear the number 42. Members of Robinson's family have since argued that his status should remain unique given his iconic role in America's civil rights struggle, and leaders of the Jackie Robinson Foundation say the City Council should mind its own business and stop meddling in baseball.

The president of the Jackie Robinson Foundation, Della Brittan Baeza, responded to the City Council's new push with a statement: "All of us at the Jackie Robinson Foundation respect and admire Roberto Clemente's achievements. The decision as to how to honor his legacy in baseball belongs solely to Major League Baseball." The foundation, which was founded by Robinson's family after his death in 1972, awards college scholarships to minority students.

Clemente was one of the most accomplished baseball players of his generation, winning World Series rings in 1960 and 1971, an MVP award in 1966, and making 12 all-star appearances over 18 seasons with the Pittsburgh Pirates. Hailing from Puerto Rico, Clemente helped lay the groundwork for the many Latino baseball stars that followed him. After he died in 1972 in a plane crash while delivering aid to earthquake victims in Nicaragua, he became the first Latino player to be admitted to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Every year Major League Baseball honors a player who has distinguished himself through volunteer work with the Roberto Clemente Award in honor of the late ballplayer's humanitarian efforts.

City Council members say Clemente's achievements have earned him a place alongside Robinson.

"I'm supporting it because Roberto Clemente is a major hero with the Latino community," a co-sponsor of the resolution calling for his number to be retired, Council Member Joel Rivera, said yesterday. "While Jackie Robinson represents so much to our community, we have to recognize that so does Roberto Clemente."

Council Member Michael Nelson, another co-sponsor of the resolution, defended the Council's role in stepping up to the plate for Clemente.

"It's not important of course as saving people in Darfur," Mr. Nelson said. "But it is something we can express our feelings on. I think all legislative bodies get involved with these kinds of activities occasionally."

Behind the effort is Fernando Mateo, the president of Hispanics Across America, an advocacy group in New York City. Mr. Mateo, who also leads the New York State Federation of Taxi Drivers and was a big campaign fundraiser for President Bush, has been pressing Major League Baseball for years to recognize Clemente's achievements by retiring his number.

Mr. Mateo says he has collected nearly a quarter of a million signatures in support of Clemente, but that his efforts have lost some momentum since Mr. Selig in 2006 awarded Clemente a Commissioner's Historic Achievement Award, which the player's widow, Vera Clemente, accepted on his behalf.

"We believe that one African-American should not get all of the merits of having his number retired," Mr. Mateo said in a phone interview yesterday. "I think it's an honor that should be shared with the Hispanic community and we should be able to honor the ballplayer that fought for our civil rights within the game, struggled during his entire career to send a message of equality, a man that was compassionate, a man that had much better records and statistics than Jackie Robinson."

In 2006, Robinson's daughter, Sharon Robinson, told the press that she wanted her father's jersey number to be the only one retired across the league.

"To my understanding, the purpose of retiring my father's number is that what he did changed all of baseball, not only for African-Americans but also for Latinos, so I think that purpose has been met," Ms. Robinson said at the time when asked about an earlier drive to retire Clemente's number. "When you start retiring numbers across the board, for all different groups, you're kind of diluting the original purpose."

The question of which player was better on the field is debatable. Baseball scholar Bill James ranks Robinson 32nd and Clemente 74th all-time while the Sporting News puts Clemente at 22nd and Robinson at 44th. Robinson's career was significantly shorter than Clemente's, giving Clemente the edge on most overall stats. But Robinson played his first season at age 27, raising the question of what he might have achieved if he had been allowed to begin his career earlier. The two compiled similar batting averages, home runs, and RBIs, given their career lengths, but Robinson was a much faster player than Clemente and also had a significantly higher on-base percentage.

As for their off-the-field significance, Robinson is generally regarded as the more important player. While Robinson was the first modern player to break the famous color barrier, many Latino players preceded Clemente, where the barrier was always murkier. Cuban pitcher Dolf Luque, for example, won three ERA titles from 1914-1935 during his career with the Dodgers and Giants. Chico Carrasquel became the first Latino all-star in 1951, playing for a White Sox team that featured several Latino players. He participated in four all-star games including one in 1955, the year Roberto Clemente arrived in the league.

Currently about a dozen active players wear Clemente's number 21, including Mets star Carlos Delgado, who is also from Puerto Rico, Tigers pitcher Dontrelle Willis, and Nationals first baseman Dmitri Young.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 22 2008 08:41 AM

I don't like it either.

As a European-American of Italian ancestry, I'm going to start insisting that Joe DiMaggio's number 5 get retired universally.

Then the Jews can do the same for Hank Greenberg.

And then the children-of-incest can do the same for John Rocker.

Where will it end?

metsmarathon
Jan 22 2008 08:45 AM

i don't think there's a good case to be made that their accomplishments are equivalent.

the barrier was already down when clemente started up, and there were already a growing number of latin players in the league.

will we be retiring nomo or ichiro's numbers from the entire league for their pioneering work for japanese players as well? i'm sure clemente was met with a superlative amount of resistance in his career, but it wasn't he alone blazing the trail, and i'm sure it was in many way due to the color of his skin moreso than the tongue of his nativity.

and isn't hiram bithorn getting the shaft here?

metirish
Jan 22 2008 09:04 AM

I don't think it's ever a good idea when you have to force the issue like this.

Willets Point
Jan 22 2008 09:07 AM

Jesus, I read that as Clemen's #21 would be retired from play!

metsguyinmichigan
Jan 22 2008 09:27 AM

I don't like it when MFYs wear No. 41. They're just not worthy.

G-Fafif
Jan 22 2008 09:35 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
And then the children-of-incest can do the same for John Rocker.


This does not deserve to go unremarked upon.

LOL!

Valadius
Jan 22 2008 09:38 AM

One league-wide retirement is enough.

Rockin' Doc
Jan 22 2008 06:56 PM

Clemente's number has been appropriately retired in Pittsburgh by the Pirates organization and that is enough in my view.

Nymr83
Jan 22 2008 07:55 PM

just say NO bud. be strong.

i can't believe this is what the jackasses we voted for waste their time on.

RealityChuck
Jan 22 2008 08:51 PM

Much as I admire Clemente, this makes little sense. He didn't have the impact of Robinson and there were plenty of Puerto Rican ballplayers before Roberto.

He did die trying to help others, which is admirable, but not enough to do this. What did he do for the average Latin ballplayer?

It looks like he was at least the 12th Puerto Rican ballplayer to play in the majors. There wre over 50 Cubans preceeding him. He's probably the best of the group, but he's no Jackie Robinson.

DocTee
Jan 22 2008 08:57 PM

I think he has already been honored appropriately. MLB's highest off-field accolade is named in his honor, a fitting tribute for a man who, as Chuck notes, died trying to help others.

AG/DC
Jan 22 2008 09:11 PM
Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 23 2008 07:53 AM

My problem isn't so much the proposal, which none of us support. It's that it puts Selig --- who has gone out of his way to express profound admiration for Clemente every chance he gets --- in a position of acting like a scrooge on behalf of baseball.

Hey, City Council, clean up the 30th precinct, bring the middle class back into the housing market, or do something else that's part of your mandate. Surely there's something you can do on your own dime to honor Puerto Ricans.

Nymr83
Jan 22 2008 09:18 PM

their own dime? you mean our dime. i'd prefer they went back to their other jobs where they'd do less harm (did you know NYC council members get paid $112,500 a year + additional money for serving on comitees) i also heard that they only work part-time and still get to earn income from other business. bums.

AG/DC
Jan 22 2008 10:16 PM

I think you know what I mean.

soupcan
Jan 23 2008 07:26 AM

Nymr83 wrote:
i can't believe this is what the jackasses we voted for waste their time on.


It truly is amazing isn't it?

Nymr83
Jan 23 2008 10:27 AM

not as amazing as the salaries they get for a part-time job

AG/DC
Jan 23 2008 10:43 AM

I'll disagree.

The public money spent on the salaries is not at all comparable to the public money they have the power to spend foolishly or wisely.

Nymr83
Jan 23 2008 11:22 AM

wasting their time telling selig to honor clemente doesnt waste public money, unless you want to count keeing the lights on

AG/DC
Jan 23 2008 11:34 AM

Not for the first time in this thread, you're deliberately missing my point.

Nymr83
Jan 23 2008 11:42 AM

soupcan said its amazing how they waste their time, i replied that its not as amazing as their insane salaries, to which you reply that the public money they waste is alot more than that, but we weren't comparing the two, we were comparing their salaries to the time wasted not to public money wasted. so either your reply was meant to mean two different things (one that you disagree with me that the money is worse than the time and second that [having nothing to do with the first point] the public money is worse than the salaries, or two, and this is how i read it and why i responded as i did, you equated my comment as comparing to public moneys which is not what i was doing.)

AG/DC
Jan 23 2008 12:00 PM

Enjoy law school.

Not that I should have to explain it, but every moment spent on post-office legislation and non-binding resolutions is time not spent on reponsible public policy and fiscal oversight of a city with a huge budget, which is what they're elected for.

Nymr83
Jan 23 2008 12:07 PM

alternatively you could say that time they spend on crap like this is time they can't spend thinking of new ways to waste our money or ban transfats and ipods

AG/DC
Jan 23 2008 12:11 PM

I could. I won't. Again, I shouln't have to explain this, but they're not elected to not fail. Funds need to get allocated. The city doesn't improve by them not doing their jobs.

Nymr83
Jan 23 2008 12:16 PM

i would suggest that funds have already been allocated to the NYPD, the sanitation department, filling potholes, etc. the reason they are part time is that allocatig funds for a city, unlike being Congress or even a state legislature is that you simply aren't needed every day and the more time they spend "in session" beyond getting the basics done is more time they spend wasting our money on fluff.

HahnSolo
Jan 23 2008 01:42 PM

The NY Post Chimes in:

THE COUNCIL'S CLEMENTE CLAPTRAP

January 23, 2008 -- True to its tradition of sticking its nose where it doesn't belong, the City Council wants to honor baseball great Roberto Clemente by instructing Major League Baseball on how to do business.

Specifically, a council committee resolved yesterday to ask MLB to retire permanently Clemente's uniform number - 21, worn for 18 seasons with the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Few players would merit such an honor more than Clemente - a Hall of Famer and a tireless humanitarian.

Indeed, he was killed in a 1972 plane crash while delivering disaster-relief aid in earthquake-ravaged Nicaragua.

But only one number has ever been retired league-wide: Jackie Robinson's 42.

That decision was announced on the 50th anniversary of Robinson's breaking the sport's color barrier - suggesting that baseball knows how best to honor its groundbreaking players.

And it does: The league presents the Roberto Clemente Award every year to the player who best embodies Clemente's humanitarian spirit.

But the council, forever in search of ways to justify itself, now figures it knows better.

It's simply beyond comprehension.

Get a life, councilpersons.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 23 2008 02:06 PM

This is really nothing to get worked up about. I don't imagine much "time" was wasted by these people on this foolish idea. It's not like a dozen people toiled over this for weeks on end. It's more like one of those resolutions that legislative bodies often pass, like declaring "Bathroom Tissue Week" or something like that.

It's a sop to Puerto Rican constituents and isn't binding on anybody. Should they have done it? No. But they did. No big deal.