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Ranking the best third basemen.

metirish
Jan 24 2008 08:21 AM

From Rob Neyer.

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Today, we turn to the best third basemen of the next five years. As you might recall, I've been ignoring players older than 30, but if there's a time to ignore that rule -- more of a guideline, really -- this is it, because the best player in the American League still has plenty of good seasons ahead of him. Here are my 10 holdovers from 2007; the given age is 2008 seasonal age, while the other numbers are from 2007, including adjusted OPS (which is how the players are sorted) and Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP).

Player .............Age OBP SLG OPS+ WARP

Alex Rodriguez 32 .422 .645 177 11.0

David Wright 25 .416 .546 150 10.6

Miguel Cabrera 25 .401 .565 150 9.2

Aramis Ramirez 30 .366 .473 129 7.3

Chone Figgins 30 .393 .432 117 3.4

Adrian Beltre 29 .319 .482 112 4.5

Garrett Atkins 28 .367 .486 112 3.7

Mark Reynolds 24 .349 .495 111 2.8

Kevin Kouzmanoff 26 .333 .459 109 1.5

Ryan Zimmerman 23 .359 .411 107 7.7




Missing from the list? Chipper Jones (who five years from today will be nearly 41 years old), Ryan Braun (who one month from today will be a left fielder) and Mike Lowell (a gamer who might have three or four good years left in him).

A few notes on that list:

• Last year there was a big space between No. 1 and Nos. 2 and 3, and a big space between Nos. 2 and 3 and everyone else. I expect No. 1 to drop off some, but absent injury I don't see any reason to think the top three this season will be different from last season. Yes, Cabrera will be facing better pitching in the American League. He'll also be a year older and it's hard see him not being one of the three best- hitting third basemen in the majors.

• You might be surprised to see Atkins even with Beltre in OPS+, but that's Coors vs. Safeco. When you consider Beltre's age in years and defense, he's clearly going to be a few slots ahead of Atkins when we make our final list.

• I was surprised to find Kouzmanoff with a higher OPS+ than Zimmermann, but Kouzmanoff's defense numbers are simply horrible, easily the worst on the list. If he doesn't get significantly better with either the bat or the glove, the Padres are left in an awkward position, because a 1.6 WARP means he's significantly worse than an average MLB third baseman.

• Meanwhile, Zimmermann's WARP is fourth-best on the list. This is partially due to his excellent defensive numbers, and I suspect there might also be a difference in how WARP and OPS+ utilize park effects. Regardless, I believe Zimmermann's youth and his defense clearly move him into the top five on our final list. In his three seasons with the Nationals, he has an .861 OPS in road games, which gives you an idea of what he'll do with the Nats moving into their new home this spring.

• It's hard to know what to make of Reynolds. Just one year ago, Baseball America opined, "Reynolds will probably begin the season as the second baseman in Double-A." He did spend roughly a month in Double-A but mostly as a third baseman, and spent the balance of the season with the big club. His defensive stats weren't good, but he has little experience at the position and figures to improve.

With all that (and some other stuff) in mind, our tentative list:

1. Wright
2. Cabrera
3. Rodriguez
4. Zimmermann
5. Beltre
6. Ramirez
7. Reynolds
8. Atkins
9. Andy LaRoche
10. ????

Figgins and Kouzmanoff didn't make this list because Figgins probably will continue to be a utility guy, and because Kouzmanoff's defense last season was just so awful. If he gets a handle on that problem, though, he certainly should rank among the top 10 over the next five years.

As you probably noticed, I've tossed Andy LaRoche into the mix, but there are plenty of other young candidates for the last three or four spots. Kansas City's Alex Gordon struggled last season but is still considered a future star. Tampa Bay's Evan Longoria hasn't played in the majors yet, but he's still quite young, has power and patience, and figures to take over at third this spring. Colorado's Ian Stewart hasn't moved quite as quickly as Longoria (or as quickly as we expected), but soon the Rockies will have to figure out how to use both him and Atkins in the lineup.

Your thoughts?

Willets Point
Jan 24 2008 08:26 AM
Re: Ranking the best third basemen.

Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 24 2008 08:28 AM

Rob Neyer wrote:
Missing from the list? Chipper Jones (who five years from today will be nearly 41 years old)


I guess this is supposed to be humor, but it just sounds dumb. Why not just say that in 30 years he'll be eligible for social security benefits?

metirish
Jan 24 2008 08:27 AM

Well I didn't write it, just posted it.

Willets Point
Jan 24 2008 08:27 AM

metirish wrote:
Well I didn't write it, just posted it.


Of course, I was criticizing Neyer. I'll fix that.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 24 2008 08:39 AM

Well, if he's pondering who will be the best third basemen over the next five years, it's not silly to point out that Chipper will be 41 at the end of that period.

AG/DC
Jan 24 2008 08:56 AM

Some smarty pants sportswriter wrote with certainty that Zimmerman would outhit Wright this year, freed from the RFK park factor.

He could, but it would be a big leap.

AG/DC
Jan 24 2008 09:00 AM

I think perhaps some of the top thirdbasemem of the next five years are currently playing shortstop.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 24 2008 09:05 AM

Has the new park in DC been given (or sold) a name yet?

AG/DC
Jan 24 2008 09:06 AM

Don't think so. Ten weeks to opening day? Plenty of time.

Benjamin Grimm
Jan 24 2008 09:14 AM

If the price comes down enough, maybe we can all chip in and buy a name for it.

How about "William A. Shea Municipal Field"?

Willets Point
Jan 24 2008 09:21 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote:
Well, if he's pondering who will be the best third basemen over the next five years, it's not silly to point out that Chipper will be 41 at the end of that period.


Good point. I should read better and not assume snark.

MFS62
Jan 24 2008 09:51 AM

This may be what AG/DC had read:
From Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus -- on CNNSI.com -- Mr. Sheehan has Zimmerman pegged for a "breakthrough" season.....going as far as definitively stating he'll be better than David Wright in 2008.


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Ryan Zimmerman: Zimmerman may seem like an odd choice for the list, given how well he's played in his first two full seasons. However, Zimmerman's raw stat lines have been held down by his home park, RFK Stadium, which just killed power, especially right-handed power. Zimmerman's home/road splits do not reflect this gap�14; he's slugged .501 at RFK in his career, .435 on the road, but a guiding principle of performance analysis is that an individual's home/road splits, even over two years, do not mean that player isn't being affected by his home park. We know what RFK did to run scoring and power, and moving to a new park should enable Zimmerman to convert some of his doubles to home runs. Throw in development -- he's 23 this season -- and you have the recipe for a breakout. David Wright might well have been the most valuable player in the National League last season; Zimmerman will be a better player than Wright in 2008.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...yers/index.html

Later

AG/DC
Jan 24 2008 10:06 AM

Thanks.

I have no problem with predicting him for a breakthrough season. But definitively saying he'll be better than Wright --- which is essentially saying he'll be one of the top three players in the league --- is easy when you're playing with house money.

These analysts have to realize that the reason GMs are so conservative is that they're playing with the real thing. Find one GM in baseball who would take Zimmerman for Wright.

attgig
Jan 24 2008 11:40 AM

if that does happen (not saying it will), I wonder if Sheehan will predict wright to be better than zimmerman when the mets move to citifield.

does the park play THAT much of a difference?