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Douchebag Neighbors

soupcan Jan 22 2008 01:42 PM

My douchebag neighbor just built an ice rink in his backyard – which is right in front of my front yard and separated by a 5’ tall fence. -They never asked or told us about it before they built it -It’s a good size rink – I’d say at least 60’ long if not longer and maybe 20’ wide. Yesterday was the first day their kids were able to use it (the water finally froze). They were out there with hockey sticks slamming pucks into the boards. Sounded like gunshots every time they blasted one. Then they strung up lights and were out there until about 8:00 last night. The lights, by the way, shine directly into my bedroom. At about 8:30 last night I went out there while he was spraying water on the surface and said ‘Are you going to turn these lights off anytime soon?' He and his wife both responded- rather tersely I might add – that they intend on turning the lights off at 8:15 every night and that this time it was just the first day and they were getting used to the set-up and that’s why the lights weren’t off yet. The wife and I very annoyed to say the least. We checked with the town Planning & Zoning commission and learned that no permit was ever filed for the erection of an ice skating rink. Even if they did apply they would have been turned down because they don’t have enough room. According to town regulations – you must have setbacks of at least 25‘ from the property lines to erect any structures. The rink is less than 5 feet from the fence that separates my property from his and the swath it’s on is only about 69’ wide anyway. My question to you is thus: Do I file a complaint with the town? This will almost assuredly result in them having to remove the rink. The only reason I’m even thinking about not doing it is because their daughter is a nice kid and she is apparently the reason they built the rink. She plays hockey and was out there all day yesterday skating and shooting. If I were to rat them out, they of course would know it was me and the kid would hate me.

metirish Jan 22 2008 01:49 PM

WOW, that blows for you, Soupcan if you don't report them then every night they are out there it will bother you, and probably even when they are not. Sounds like you and the parents are not best friends or anything so I think you should report them, certainly it's not an easy choice because reporting them brings a certain amount of discomfort and may even bring some agro. You need some goons up there?

seawolf17 Jan 22 2008 01:52 PM

I'm biased because our neighbor is a horse's ass who needs to get run over by one of his fucking quads, but I'd ab-so-fucking-lutely file a complaint. I'm sure you're not the only neighbor who'd go in on it.

AG/DC Jan 22 2008 01:54 PM

Do your kids play hockey?

DocTee Jan 22 2008 01:59 PM

Can't you just ask them to keep the playing to the hours between 1000 and 6? If they refuse this request then bring on the suits.

Kong76 Jan 22 2008 02:00 PM

Holy Hatfield's and McCoy's, soupcan! I'm not neighborly, take thirty pounds of snow-melter to it at 3:00 am and then thirty pounds of sand to it about 4:30 am and play dumb.

themetfairy Jan 22 2008 02:01 PM

Is there any chance these guys would be amenable to negotiating terms that would be convenient for you, like shutting the lights at an earlier time, no hockey before other times, etc.? Would they chip in for a hedge that would hide the rink more completely than the current fence does? If so, see whether you can work out something that you can all live with. If not, then file away. Because if you don't, it's possible that you may eventually waive your right to complain at another time. Other factors that lean towards filing include the fact that you have no guarantee that subsequent owners would adhere to any terms you negotiate with this neighbor; and when the time comes that you want to sell your current home, a hockey rink next door won't help you sell or get a decent price for your house.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 22 2008 02:01 PM

Douchy neighbors are the worst kind of neighbors. You should see if you can't express to them your concern about noise and lights and guage their willingness to compromise. The prob with getting the authorities involved is the possibity they start blowing whistles on you in retaliation.

DocTee Jan 22 2008 02:03 PM

Right now, on a forum somewhere, there is a thread with a similar title. The poster goes on to tell of a neighbor who complains about kids being kids, and how he is ruining their daughters chance for good, clean fun. "You'd think I opened a brothel or a firing range" he posts, "it's only an ice rink and it will be down by 1 March". "This guy" he continues, "will no doubt complain-- he knows all the regs and even the dimensions of my--not his, mind you--but my--property." Moreover, if you go to the authorities rather than confront the neighbor face-to-face (but in a cordial manner), you'd be stooping to his level-- take the high road, Soup.

metirish Jan 22 2008 02:07 PM

That's a hellava high road to take , I don't think soupcan would be stooping to any level in gettin this sorted.

DocTee Jan 22 2008 02:08 PM

My cunt neighbor complained to my landlord (never to me) about the lack of landscaping. As per the lease, he raised my rent by $80 per month to cover professional service. (A steal, and the best money I ever spent). Last month, I wanted to ask her how the lawn looked, but figured posing such a question while the police led her soon out in handcuffs was not too cool. I have, however, replaced my icy glares with hearty hellos at every opportunity.

AG/DC Jan 22 2008 02:09 PM

How did the erection escape your notice? (Yes, Beavis, I said, "Erection.")

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jan 22 2008 02:24 PM

I'm missing something about DocTee's cunt neighbor here. What did she do to get arrested?

soupcan Jan 22 2008 02:28 PM

metirish wrote: You need some goons up there? Not yet, but I'll keep you on my speed dial. ="seawolf17"]Im sure you're not the only neighbor who'd go in on it. Actually I would be the only one. On the other side of them is a vegetable farm. ="AG/DC"]Do your kids play hockey? My kids don't play hockey but they DO skate. The kids aren't really the best of friends though and honestly I'd have misgivings about letting my kids on that rink. It's not level (roughly 4' deep at one end and about 1' at the other) and who knows what other safety concerns there might be? ="DocTee"]Why don't you just ask them to keep the playing to the hours between 1000 and 6? Sure I could. The problem is I don't want the fucking thing out there at all and if I compromise what happens if I still get pissed off and change my mind down the road? Then I look like the asshole. ="KC"]Take thirty pounds of snow-melter to it at 3:00 am and then thirty pounds of sand to it about 4:30 am and play dumb. Don't think I haven't thought about it. ="themetfairy"]Is there any chance these guys would be amenable to negotiating terms that would be convenient for you, like shutting the lights at an earlier time, no hockey before other times, etc.? Would they chip in for a hedge that would hide the rink more completely than the current fence does? If so, see whether you can work out something that you can all live with. If not, then file away. Because if you don't, it's possible that you may eventually waive your right to complain at another time. Other factors that lean towards filing include the fact that you have no guarantee that subsequent owners would adhere to any terms you negotiate with this neighbor; and when the time comes that you want to sell your current home, a hockey rink next door won't help you sell or get a decent price for your house. A hedge wouldn't help, believe me. The most messed up thing about this is that they are both lawyers so they knew exactly what they were doing was wrong. Tht just pisses me off too ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]The prob with getting the authorities involved is the possibity they start blowing whistles on you in retaliation. Bring it on - there's nothing there. I have a shed on the other side of my yard that technically should be about 10 fet from where it is - I'd be happy to move it if that's all it took. ="DocTee"]Right now, on a forum somewhere, there is a thread with a similar title. The poster goes on to tell of a neighbor who complains about kids being kids, and how he is ruining their daughters chance for good, clean fun. "You'd think I opened a brothel or a firing range" he posts, "it's only an ice rink and it will be down by 1 March". "This guy" he continues, "will no doubt complain-- he knows all the regs and even the dimensions of my--not his, mind you--but my--property." Moreover, if you go to the authorities rather than confront the neighbor face-to-face (but in a cordial manner), you'd be stooping to his level-- take the high road, Soup. The problem with the rink - other than what I've already stated - is that its a permanent structure. So in the summer it will still be there. Other than being an eyesore if its not drained properly it will attract mosquitos and whatever else. I've always tried to be the good neighbor and I've always preached taking the high road and have always tried to do it. What makes me angry is that they've put me in this position that makes me very uncomfortable. It's just not right and I'm very angry about it.

soupcan Jan 22 2008 02:30 PM

AG/DC wrote: How did the erection escape your notice? It didn't. We saw them building it. Weren't quite sure what it was going to be, etc., etc., didn't want to make a stink for no reason. Now that its up and running - its an issue.

DocTee Jan 22 2008 02:35 PM

Sorry, it was her SON that got arrested. (She called the cops because he was drunk/high, underage, and combative).

Gwreck Jan 22 2008 03:25 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 22 2008 03:26 PM

Taking the high road is absolutely *NOT* what you do in this case. The only mistake you've made so far is not asking them about it when it was going up, because you could have perhaps gotten a stop work order if they were building in violation of the town/village/city ordinances. Now when they have to take it down they'll be more pissed because of the time and effort they put into it. I would write a firm but polite letter detailing your concerns, and that it appears to be in violation of the town/village/etc. ordinances. You could even toss in a line about how you "have no desire to become unreasonably involved in your private business, but unfortunately these circumstances, specifically the proximity of and noise and lighting associates with the rink leave me no option." Give them ten (10) days to remedy the situation or else you will have no option but to take further action to protect your property rights.

Nymr83 Jan 22 2008 03:26 PM

doctee- laws that require landscaping suck ass, you should be free to let your lawn grow wild as a jungle and your bushes wilt away and die if thats what make you happy. soupcan- go directly to the authorities, do not pass go, do not collect $200. this neighbor is a jerk and the sooner he is forced to get rid of it the better.

DocTee Jan 22 2008 03:32 PM

I agree but I am renting and this was spelled out pretty clearly in the lease. I just wish the neighbor would have gone to me directly-- now my landlordprobably thinks I am letting the inside of my house go to hell, too. That is why I suggest Soup take the neighborly approach-- had my neighbor voiced her concerns to me directly, I would have acknowledged the problem and hired someone to remedy the situation (someone, that is, other than her stoner son).

Nymr83 Jan 22 2008 04:58 PM

i doubt, however, that a pair of lawyers who [almost certainly knowingly] violated laws to build an unsafe ice skating rink are goin to be amenable to a "neighborly" suggestion, particularly when they have presumably already spent money on the thing.

Kong76 Jan 22 2008 05:18 PM

Ny: >>>a pair of lawyers who [almost certainly knowingly] violated laws<<< I missed the part where they're lawyers, but I'll take your word for it and I ain't going back a re-reading. Lawyers who violate laws should lose their license to practice law. Unless they're also politicians, of course. Sand and salt the fargin' icehole bastages.

AG/DC Jan 22 2008 05:20 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 22 2008 06:03 PM

Ice skaters always pitch Lipton soup anyhow.

Nymr83 Jan 22 2008 05:48 PM

="KC"]Ny: >>>a pair of lawyers who [almost certainly knowingly] violated laws<<< I missed the part where they're lawyers, but I'll take your word for it and I ain't going back a re-reading. Lawyers who violate laws should lose their license to practice law. ="Soupcan"]The most messed up thing about this is that they are both lawyers so they knew exactly what they were doing was wrong. Tht just pisses me off too they should certainly face censure if they violated the law, though i'd be hesitant to say they should lose their licenses for violating a zoning ordinance that has nothing to do with their practice.

Kong76 Jan 22 2008 06:04 PM

Just curious, Ny ... what area of law do you practice or plan to practice?

cooby Jan 22 2008 06:24 PM

How old is this daughter? I guess the best thing to remember is, kids grow up. It is something I have noticed after many years of being a neighbor. Another thing I have noticed is, people move away. But, boy I sure wouldn't want an ice skate rink in my front yard. Almost as bad as the water park I dreamed my next door neighbors put in once. Using our pool as part of it. It might be worth bringing up at a town meeting or something.

soupcan Jan 22 2008 07:06 PM

Thanks for all the input and advice - I really, really appreciate it. I have decided to take the high road in the following manner: I'm going to talk to my attorney and probably have her write a letter detailing my concerns - specifically that perhaps my property value may be affected by having an illegal ice skating rink in my front yard. After I speak to her and before the Douchebag family gets the letter I'm going to talk to Mr. Douchebag. Tell him that we're not happy about the rink and why and that the only compromise I'll agree to will be the removal of the lights, installation of some type of padding so I don't hear slapshots (a mattress put up against the boards maybe) and the permanent removal of the thing once the warm weather comes. If he doesn't agree to that I'll tell him that I will notify the town P&Z and he can then deal with them. Sound good? ="cooby"]How old is this daughter? She's 12, and again, a nice kid. Their son is 10 but he's well on his way to douchebag status as well.

Fman99 Jan 22 2008 08:07 PM

You're way nicer than me. I'd blow that shit in in a NY minute. Of course I also have a neighbor that's a dickhole and that might be affecting my advice. All my neighbor did was put up a 4' above-ground pool and then manually dump it all out into his back yard because he didn't level it first. He flooded my backyard in the process, though it dried a couple days later.

soupcan Jan 23 2008 07:23 AM

Fman99 wrote: All my neighbor did was put up a 4' above-ground pool and then manually dump it all out into his back yard because he didn't level it first. He flooded my backyard in the process, though it dried a couple days later. This thing is not level either and when he drains it - it probably will flow into my yard.

metirish Jan 23 2008 07:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Jan 23 2008 07:33 AM

Sound like you are trying to be a good neighbor Soupcan, I hope Mr. Douchebag will try and be a better one after you talk to him. Just curious but how much would one pay to install an ice rink, I imagine it's very expensive.

soupcan Jan 23 2008 07:38 AM

metirish wrote: Just curious but how much would one pay to install an ice rink, I imagine it's very expensive. No idea - he had 2-3 workers out there for maybe two weeks, then he had a pool water company come and fill it up at least two seperate times. Lotsa wood, some plexiglass. Definitely didn't have any engineers or licensing people on his payroll though.

Methead Jan 23 2008 07:47 AM

The guy sounds a little insane. It's hardly been cold enough to keep the thing frozen for any extended period of time. You'd think they could pay to get their kid on some real ice, rather than sinking cash into a project like that. Threatening to report them to P&Z is no idle threat... they can be ruthless, especially in your town. I've heard stories. You're not near any wetlands, are you by any chance?

soupcan Jan 23 2008 07:54 AM

Yup - there's wetlands near there. I don't believe that the rink is on them, but the wetlands are definitely in the back of my property which abuts parts of his. I've never had any experience with P&Z in my town. Good to hear that they are enforcers. Not surprising though considering the personalities that populate Westport.

Nymr83 Jan 23 2008 10:30 AM

wetlands?!? now he's really fucked, the environmentalists are going to come after him.

metirish Jan 23 2008 10:42 AM

KC wrote: Just curious, Ny ... what area of law do you practice or plan to practice? I think MYM83 mentioned before that he plans on practicing estate law, helping out Soupcan with his huge estate will be good practice.

AG/DC Jan 23 2008 10:56 AM

He has to set aside time to go online and demonize himself.

Nymr83 Jan 23 2008 11:27 AM

i have a wide variety of interests, i'll work wherever i find something decent to start out. the list of things i won't do is much shorter- criminal defense being number one on that list. soupcan shouldn't have to deal with this crap, it should really be legal to poor industrial-strength rock salt on your neghbor's illegal skating rinks.

metsmarathon Jan 23 2008 03:08 PM

next time it melts, add soap.

Nymr83 Jan 23 2008 05:38 PM

add antifreeze.

MFS62 Jan 23 2008 06:57 PM

Don't wait until it reaches the point when they ask you if they can park their Zamboni in your garage. I'd go to the town tax assessor's office and just wonder if "My neighbor's illegal skating rink is efecting my property valuation". That should jump start a very interesting conversation. Later

Nymr83 Jan 23 2008 07:04 PM

sounds good!

soupcan Jan 23 2008 07:22 PM

Waiting to hear back from my attorney. in the meantime - the past two nights the lights on the rink have suspiciously gone out at the same time my bedroom lights went on. Which was much earlier than 8:15. Hmmmmmm.

cooby Jan 23 2008 07:23 PM

Soupcan, do you seriously go to bed at 8:15? Just wondering. I've been wondering all day.

soupcan Jan 23 2008 07:59 PM

When did I ever say that? I don't usually close my eyes til after 11:30pm.

themetfairy Jan 23 2008 08:15 PM

Perhaps your neighbors lurk here....

cooby Jan 23 2008 08:24 PM Re: Douchebag Neighbors

soupcan wrote: Then they strung up lights and were out there until about 8:00 last night. The lights, by the way, shine directly into my bedroom. At about 8:30 last night I went out there while he was spraying water on the surface and said ‘Are you going to turn these lights off anytime soon?' He and his wife both responded- rather tersely I might add – that they intend on turning the lights off at 8:15 every night and that this time it was just the first day and they were getting used to the set-up and that’s why the lights weren’t off yet. . I dunno, something about the way this read that kinda made me think that...

Nymr83 Jan 23 2008 08:40 PM

soup, you think you can take a picture of this mess for us?

metsmarathon Jan 23 2008 09:26 PM

the bedroom lights go on well before 8:15, but soupy doesn't close his eyes until 11:30 or so... sounds like somebody's got a law & order addiction...

soupcan Jan 24 2008 06:58 AM

Nymr83 wrote: soup, you think you can take a picture of this mess for us? Sure. Probably not until this weekend because I don't get home during the week until its dark out and dark pictures wouldn't really show you proximity, etc.

Centerfield Jan 24 2008 11:09 AM

I think you should pee on it until they take it down.

soupcan Jan 24 2008 11:42 AM

You mean like a constant stream from now until whenever or just go out there everytime nature calls?

Centerfield Jan 24 2008 11:47 AM

I think you should build a contraption in your front yard that dumps all of your sewage onto the rink. If they complain, tell them you'll take it down when they remove the rink. On the other hand, maybe consulting your attorney was the smarter move.

themetfairy Jan 24 2008 12:03 PM

Centerfield wrote: I think you should pee on it until they take it down. You know, when I was away, it's posts like this that I missed the most <g>

soupcan Feb 04 2008 11:30 AM

UPDATE: When we last left our Douchebag Neighbors, the soupcan family had put in a call to their attorney (who it just so happens lives across the street). Her advice was to use an attorney who did not live right across the street, so she was going to give us a name of someone she thought we should use. While awaiting that information over the last week the weather got warmer and it rained on Friday night. Pretty hard. So hard in fact that the rain combined with the melting ice in the ice rink caused the wall of the ice rink to collapse and unleash a river of water (two pool trucks full) into my front and backyards, effectively flooding them and ruining some recent plantings. I go over to the neighbors and knock on the door: Douchebag: "Yeah?" Soupcan: "The back wall of your rink has collapsed and its flooding my yard." DB: "What? Shit!" We both then proceed to the ice rink. While Douchebag is trying in vain to stem the flood he says that he will call his contractor and have him come over and fix it. SC: "Fix it? Dude, you have to take this thing down. DB:"Why?" SC:"Um, because it's collapsing, flooding my yard, and you don't have any permits for it." DB:"It's not illegal, I don't need permits!" SC:"Its a permanent structure." DB:"It's a temporary structure, there's no cement" SC:"I went down to Town Hall and they said there is no such thing as a 'temporary structure', besides that you have to have at least a 25' setback from the property line. You've got about 3' here." DB:"What are gonna do - sue me?" SC:"Did I say I was gonna sue you?" DB:"You're talking like it." SC:"I'm pointing out that you don't have a permit for it. This is the first thing I've said about it since you erected it." DB:"You complained about the lights the first night we used it." SC:"I asked you what time you were going to turn them off because they were shining into my bedroom window" DB:"I suggest you get some curtains." SC:"Fuck you." With that I walked away. About 30 minutes later, Mrs. Douchebag came over to my house. SC: "Yeah?" Mrs. Douchebag: "Listen I wanted to apologize for what my husband said, he realizes that he said some things he shouldn't have and he was just aggravated at the time." SC: "Really, how does he think I felt watching my yard turn into a swamp? You know we have some new plantings back there that will pretty much be dead now. MDB: "I'm sorry about that (no offer to do anything about it though) but we stooped the flow and its going to be fixed." SC: "You need to take it down, you have no permits for it and its now become an issue." MDB: "We don't need any permits, there's no foundation" SC: "That doesn't matter, who told you that?" MDB: "The contractor" SC: "Wow, what a surprise." She then went on and on about how she's sure she doesn't need permits and she could build playground with lights if she wanted too and how we just don't want them to use their yard and how my wife always glares at her and badmouths her around town, blah, blah. They said they had planned to disassemble it completely in the spring anyway and then reassemble next winter. I told her that it needed to come down and then she went home. Mr. Douchag came back over to talk to me later that afternoon. DB:"Yeah, listen I'm sorry about earlier." SC: "Look, either you take it down or get the permits for it. If you get the permits for it then my quarrel is not with you, its with the town and I can choose to take it up with them or not" DB: " But you said that we couldn't get permits for it." SC: "You can't but you seem to think that the town will allow it so go find out and if the town says you can have it but you need permits then God bless." DB: But if we can't the permits then we can't have the rink" SC: "Bingo." DB: "Huh." SC: "See that flood back there? Lot of my plants are gonna die." DB: "It'll dry." SC: " It'll dry? Let me ask you, where did you intend to drain this thing when spring came?" DB: "I was going to pump it out into the wetlands back there." SC: " You can't empty that into the wetlands. It's Wetlands, you can't disturb or alter it at all. Besides the fact that those Wetlands are on MY PROPERTY!" DB: "No they aren't" SC: "Goodbye." With that I went back inside. Wife went to Planning & Zoning this morning, complaint filed. We got the new attorney's name and we'll call him tonight. Incredible huh? I'll post some pictures this week.

metirish Feb 04 2008 11:46 AM

Un-fucking-real, soupcan I admire your patience, how fucking thick are these two to act like this? I'm getting frustrated just reading this.

Elster88 Feb 04 2008 12:06 PM

]She then went on and on about how she's sure she doesn't need permits and she could build playground with lights if she wanted too and how we just don't want them to use their yard and how my wife always glares at her and badmouths her around town, blah, blah. This cracks me up. Women.

A Boy Named Seo Feb 04 2008 12:08 PM

Horrible, man. Nice work standing your ground, though. I'd take some snaps of that flooding if you haven't already. For DB Neighbor, now available in Crazy Neighbor Pak!

Nymr83 Feb 04 2008 12:11 PM

can't wait to see douchebag get his.

seawolf17 Feb 04 2008 12:18 PM

I'm living vicariously through you -- I'm just waiting for our crazy guy to do something stupid like this. Outstanding work.

Elster88 Feb 04 2008 12:19 PM

]Her advice was to use an attorney who did not live right across the street, so she was going to give us a name of someone she thought we should use. This is funny, not that I blame your neighbor for not wanting to get in the middle.

Willets Point Feb 04 2008 01:06 PM

A picture of soupcan's neighbors:

Fman99 Feb 04 2008 01:25 PM

themetfairy Feb 04 2008 02:29 PM

Unbefreakinleavable! Do you have receipts for the plantings? I'm sure that wasn't an insubstantial cost. Plus get an estimate from your landscaper for any other damages that the flooding has caused to your property. I'm assuming and hoping that you've checked your basement for flood damages. If you have a French drain, see how full it is - even if the drain did its job this time around, who's to say that it would be sufficient to handle this kind of flooding in addition to the normal kind of rain for which it's designed. And if your wife has been talking about Mrs. Douchebag to the neighbors, apparently it's not without reason. Good luck with everything!

metirish Feb 04 2008 02:37 PM

How is all this affecting your kids, do they go to the same school ar DB's kid?

AG/DC Feb 04 2008 07:18 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 04 2008 07:30 PM

You may have to let them have a few days before the next confrontation. They're in the wrong, but you can't confuse ignorance with malice. They got all excited over getting something cool for their kid --- clearly overindulged, but whatever --- they're probably not ready to hear that it's just not going to work out. If you're quiet, you can hear the hiss and pops of the cognitive dissonance coming from next door. It'll process soon enough, with or without you. The next move appears to be his. See if that contractor shows up to do some building or some tearing down. And yeah, photograph your garden.

cooby Feb 04 2008 07:23 PM

Elster88 wrote: ]She then went on and on about how she's sure she doesn't need permits and she could build playground with lights if she wanted too and how we just don't want them to use their yard and how my wife always glares at her and badmouths her around town, blah, blah. This cracks me up. Women. I'm sorry soupcan, but me too.

soupcan Feb 05 2008 10:42 AM

Okay here's some pitchers for you rubberneckers... First I drew a kind of a map of the parts of the properties. Its not to scale but gives you an idea... The lower right corner of the rink is what collapsed. The green circles are trees that are on my side of the fence but also hang over to his side. I only drew lights on one side of the rink but they are strung all the way around. Here's the rink. Taken from that lower right hand corner. The fence is the property line and even though the fence stops, the property line continues. I would say that the rink walls are about 4' high to give you some perspective. As you can see the 25' setback from my fence is not respected. That's Douchebag's house in the background and my driveway to the left. The yellow electrical cord hanging off the rink walls are attached to lights that are sitting just on the other side of the rink wall. The plank of wall with the plastic sheet hanging over it and the one next to it are what collapsed. This pic was taken after the contractor fixed it. Here's the river of water rushing down the hill from his property to mine. The tree on the left is completely on my property and the rock on the right is on the property line. Here's the back of my yard that is also wetlands.. A closer more floodier view... Damage to my yard as a result of the water flow.. You guys thought I was making this up dincha?

Farmer Ted Feb 05 2008 10:48 AM

What, no local rink at the YMCA?

metirish Feb 05 2008 10:51 AM

Looking at those pitures I think you might need FEMA to come out....seriously what an eyesore that structure is, it must come down.

Kong76 Feb 05 2008 10:52 AM

I'm not well in the head, but if that was my brook in my yard I woulda posed for a photo with a fishing pole reeling one in and used it for next years ho- liday card. You've shown some serious self-restraint here ... I'd probably be in jail.

Benjamin Grimm Feb 05 2008 10:53 AM

Well, at least the rink isn't an eyesore! Holy crap! Who were the "contractors" who built that thing? A bunch of high school kids?

soupcan Feb 05 2008 10:54 AM

themetfairy wrote: Do you have receipts for the plantings? I don't have any desire to sue anybody in general and I don't think that $500 - $1,000 in plants is gonna sway me. I'm pissed but at this point I just want the fucking rink gone. For good. themetfairy wrote: I'm assuming and hoping that you've checked your basement for flood damages. Fortunately, not an issue. ="metirish"]How is all this affecting your kids, do they go to the same school ar DB's kid? One of their kids does go to the same school with my three but so far no issues. ="AG/DC"] You may have to let them have a few days before the next confrontation. They're in the wrong, but you can't confuse ignorance with malice. I don't believe that they are malicious. What bothers me is the arrogance. The ignorance is also unbelievable considering they are both attornies. ="AG/DC"]They got all excited over getting something cool for their kid --- clearly overindulged, but whatever --- they're probably not ready to hear that it's just not going to work out. If they had gone about this the right way - gone to the town and seen if they needed permits or at least spoke to a reputable contractor they would have known from day 1 what they were and were not permitted to do. I've done a lot of work to my property and I've had to get permits for all of it. Was it easy? Was I frustrated by the process at times? Yes, but I did it. So should they have. ="AG/DC"]If you're quiet, you can hear the hiss and pops of the cognitive dissonance coming from next door. It'll process soon enough, with or without you. I decided not to hold my breath waiting for that.

seawolf17 Feb 05 2008 11:39 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, at least the rink isn't an eyesore! Holy crap! Who were the "contractors" who built that thing? A bunch of high school kids? Yeah, no kidding! Yikes!

themetfairy Feb 05 2008 12:16 PM

]I don't have any desire to sue anybody in general and I don't think that $500 - $1,000 in plants is gonna sway me. I'm pissed but at this point I just want the fucking rink gone. For good. Even if you don't want to sue, it's still important for you to establish what your damages are. $1,000 in plants may not sway you, but it could sway the zoning board if the Douchebags try to argue that their little rink isn't hurting anyone.

soupcan Feb 05 2008 12:23 PM

themetfairy wrote: Even if you don't want to sue, it's still important for you to establish what your damages are. $1,000 in plants may not sway you, but it could sway the zoning board if the Douchebags try to argue that their little rink isn't hurting anyone. Well I included the pictures in the complaints I filed (one with P&Z and one with the Conservation Commission because of the wetlands). Hopefully they will be able to see the damage. If not I can always add to the complaint. Alternatively if the Douchebags continue to be combative I have spoken to an attorney who his licking his chops at the prospect of taking them on (and taking a chunk out of my wallet as well).

metsguyinmichigan Feb 05 2008 01:21 PM

I somehow missed the earlier posts. Holy schnikes! That thing is an abomination! It would be one thing if that was in a back yard that backed up to woods or something an no one else could see. But to do that in the part that faces the front of your house? In-freaking-credible. I have an experience that is similar, but nowhere near as vile. When we bought our house here, we liked that the back yard had about 50 feet of woods between us and a soccer field and softball field owned by a big Christian Reformed church, with the church building closer to the road. I was working nights at the time, and one of the first mornings after moving in I was awakened at 7 a.m. but the sound of a guy in what I thought was my backyard cutting down trees. I went out there and it turned out it was the pastor, and he said he was thinning the wooded area to make room for a regulation-sized soccer field so they could have league games there. I started doing research and found out that the pastor was the president of an elite traveling soccer team and needed a place for his team to play. The league phone number was the church phone number. He sold it to his church council as an "evangelism opportunity" because kids would have to walk past the church on their way to the fields and become believers. He also pledged to put signs with Bible verses around the fields. The next week there was a work crew out there, and I went over and saw a van, and the crew was from the local correctional institution -- meaning that these were prisoners on work release. They were not in chains or anything, but still... Turned out the pastor was a former police officer and used his connections to get the crews, which typically are used for things like picking up trash along highways. I started calling neighbors and we met with the church council. We complained about the noise and losing the woods and that we didn't exactly like the idea of prisoners wandering around our backyards and that the church was NOT being a good neighbor. One of the council members said, "Well, if it saves even one soul, then its worth it." Having served on several church councils myself, I know that's the trump phrase to use when you can't justify something. We went to the township planners, and they were of limited help. The secretary said something like, "What are you complaining about, it's just a church league." We explained that it's NOT a church league, but the home base for an elite league and that they were practicing until 9 p.m.three nights a week with games all-day Saturday and so on. They ended up removing a bunch of the trees, but not as many as first planned. But there were still open spots where we could see right through. Then they installed a porta-potty -- but never the Bible verse signs. I was eating dinner on Mother's Day, looking out my back window and staring at a porta-potty. After dark, my son and I went out and dragged the thing around the other side of a storage building so we didn't have to look at it any more. They left it there, so I guess it worked for them. The kicker - by the next season the pastor got fired and took his team with him. Some little kiddie league teams play there now on Saturdays, but it's not as disturbing. No more porta-potties. And I also found out that the people who sold us the house knew about these plans for the field and decided not to tell us. So hang tough, Soup!

Benjamin Grimm Feb 05 2008 01:31 PM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: One of the council members said, "Well, if it saves even one soul, then its worth it." Ugh.

soupcan Feb 05 2008 01:31 PM

Wow - that's a bad story too. I suppose I should be thankful I don't live next to a church I'm thinking at this point that at least I've got the town on my side. All the secerataries/administrative people have been very sympathetic and once they heard the story and saw the pictures the universal response has been much like everyone's here: "What are they, crazy?"

Nymr83 Feb 05 2008 01:34 PM

]One of the council members said, "Well, if it saves even one soul, then its worth it." what about all the people turned off to the church by this idiocy?

AG/DC Feb 05 2008 01:36 PM

If the goaltender saves even one goal, then it's worth it.

soupcan Feb 05 2008 01:47 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ]One of the council members said, "Well, if it saves even one soul, then its worth it." what about all the people turned off to the church by this idiocy? Why would that turn people off? Isn't that why they go? ="AG/DC"]If the goaltender saves even one goal, then it's worth it. Metaphorically speaking of course...

metsguyinmichigan Feb 05 2008 01:49 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ]One of the council members said, "Well, if it saves even one soul, then its worth it." what about all the people turned off to the church by this idiocy? When he said that, I was incredulous. At the same meeting we showed them how they could reconfigure the fields and still have regulation fields but cut down just one tree instead of take dozens -- if not more -- out of the woods. The same guy said, "Well, that's the 'founders tree,' we can't cut that down." And being a wise-ass, I said "but if it saves even one soul....."

Nymr83 Feb 05 2008 03:27 PM

ok, now they're mind-bogglingly stupid.

Methead Feb 05 2008 03:38 PM

Damn, soup. People have some balls.

MFS62 Feb 06 2008 06:30 AM

Associating cutting down trees with saving souls? I guess they're not druids. Later

Kong76 Feb 06 2008 06:48 AM

It seems to me that every time something remotely Christian is mentioned on this board someone has to chime in. It's like Christians are one peg above the Yankees and Yankee fans?

metsmarathon Feb 06 2008 07:43 AM

"christians" do some pretty stupid things in the name of god. however, "christians" alone do not hold a monopoly on deeply flawed reasoning. we're not one step up from the yankees and their fans. i think we're at least above braves and philly fans as well. i think we might be on the same level as dodgers fans, i guess.

soupcan Feb 06 2008 08:46 AM

I don't think its necessarily a 'Christian' thing - I think its more an 'organized religion' thing. I'm a Jew who pays Temple dues and has two kids in Hebrew school with a third going in next year. If it were solely up to me though, I'd be $3,500.00 richer each year (dues + tution for two).

themetfairy Feb 06 2008 09:44 AM

soupcan wrote: I don't think its necessarily a 'Christian' thing - I think its more an 'organized religion' thing. I'm a Jew who pays Temple dues and has two kids in Hebrew school with a third going in next year. If it were solely up to me though, I'd be $3,500.00 richer each year (dues + tution for two). Really, more of a using religion to excuse bad behavior kind of thing. I can act like a douchebag because I'm (Christian, Jewish, etc.) is what's irritating.

Kong76 Feb 06 2008 10:30 AM

My bad on the leaving out the Braves, Phillies, and their fans.

Centerfield Feb 06 2008 11:33 AM

No really soup, go pee in the rink.

metsguyinmichigan Feb 06 2008 11:46 AM

themetfairy wrote: ="soupcan"]I don't think its necessarily a 'Christian' thing - I think its more an 'organized religion' thing. I'm a Jew who pays Temple dues and has two kids in Hebrew school with a third going in next year. If it were solely up to me though, I'd be $3,500.00 richer each year (dues + tution for two). Really, more of a using religion to excuse bad behavior kind of thing. I can act like a douchebag because I'm (Christian, Jewish, etc.) is what's irritating. That's what angered me. I'm a person of faith. To do things they know were wrong then hide behind religion was upsetting -- especially when you throw out the "even if we save one soul " line. Didn't mean to get Soup's thread hijacked. That hockey rink is just an abomination. Just a total lack of caring for anyone else.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2008 11:51 AM

F Soupcan. I'm taking the Douchebag's side in this. Won't you please think off the children?!?

Centerfield Feb 06 2008 11:54 AM

soupcan wrote: The ignorance is also unbelievable considering they are both attornies. I have a serious problem with this statement. On behalf of attorneys everywhere, I want to make it clear that we have just as much right to be stupid and ignorant as anyone else.

Kong76 Feb 06 2008 12:12 PM

But see, I was going to make an attorney crack yesterday but didn't because I know how many attorneys there are here. Which is kinda my underlying point, as stupid a point as it may seem to some. I'll shut up now.

Valadius Feb 06 2008 12:50 PM

I haven't been following this thread recently, so I just got all caught up to date. I have a couple of humorous stories in these types of matters. My senior year of high school, I worked a couple of weeks in Town Hall in East Haddam, CT, where my boarding school was. The last week or so, I was the assistant to the head zoning inspector. I got to ride around with him all day while he looked at these kinds of things. One day, we got called out to a house where some elderly neighbors had been fighting over their property line. An old woman had called screaming that she had choked on a rope that was demarcating the property line between her and her neighbors. Apparently, this woman was the town nutcase, because she called frequently complaining about nonsense. We got there to find that the rope she claimed to have choked on was running about a foot off the ground. The only way she could have choked on it was if she was the size of a lawn gnome. We went into her neighbors' house, where they told us that their crazy neighbor was harassing them, ringing their doorbell and running away like a child, shining bright lights in their windows, throwing rocks at their windows, etc. And their neighbor was about 70! Another episode was when we got called out to look at an illegal horse enclosure that some woman had built. It was against every single regulation possible (not big enough, too close to the curb, over the property line, etc.) but this woman had essentially rebuilt the damn thing three times after being told each time that she couldn't have it, period! Some people are just crazy or boneheaded. You're definitely going to win this one - zoning inspectors go nuts over water flowing into wetlands.

soupcan Feb 06 2008 12:51 PM

="metsguyinmichigan"]Didn't mean to get Soup's thread hijacked. That hockey rink is just an abomination. Just a total lack of caring for anyone else. Please feel free - hijack away! ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]F Soupcan. I'm taking the Douchebag's side in this. Won't you please think off the children?!? How about any children that might wander into his yard that might drown in that thing once the ice melts and he's got 3' of water in it with no fence around it? Assuming of course that the water doesn't leak out and flood my yard again. Or that he pumps it into the wetlands. MY wetlands. ="Centerfield"] ="soupcan"]The ignorance is also unbelievable considering they are both attornies. I have a serious problem with this statement. On behalf of attorneys everywhere, I want to make it clear that we have just as much right to be stupid and ignorant as anyone else. Actually I have since found out that Mrs. Douchebag is not an attorney. So only Mr. Douchebag can use that as his excuse...

soupcan Feb 06 2008 01:03 PM

Valadius wrote: You're definitely going to win this one - zoning inspectors go nuts over water flowing into wetlands. I sure as hell hope you're right and I'm confident that things will go the way I want them to. I just keep thinking what if by some slim chance the inspector comes and says 'Nope, nuthin' wrong here'.

AG/DC Feb 06 2008 01:06 PM

I'm thinking of the inspector coming out and saying, "Jack. Jack Douchebag. How's your golf game?" "Give it up, Tony. You haven't beaten me since Bucknell. How's Caitlin?"

soupcan Feb 06 2008 01:14 PM

Yeah - that wouldn't be so good.

Nymr83 Feb 06 2008 01:16 PM

soupcan wrote: I just keep thinking what if by some slim chance the inspector comes and says 'Nope, nuthin' wrong here'. Like the health inspector(s) who pronounced that rat-infested Tao Bell in the city to be ok? it would be pretty funny to see your neighbor getting ripped apart by the news.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2008 01:53 PM

Come on, now. Aren't wetlands supposed to be wet?

metsguyinmichigan Feb 06 2008 02:27 PM

Nymr83 wrote: ="soupcan"] I just keep thinking what if by some slim chance the inspector comes and says 'Nope, nuthin' wrong here'. Like the health inspector(s) who pronounced that rat-infested Tao Bell in the city to be ok? it would be pretty funny to see your neighbor getting ripped apart by the news. You know, as a newspaper guy, that should have ocurred to me. Are you on the Island? Send the photo of that rink to Newsday (or the paper of your choice) That thing is news. People love crazy neighbor stories. Trust me.

Vic Sage Feb 06 2008 03:45 PM

Valadius wrote: My senior year of high school, I worked a couple of weeks in Town Hall in East Haddam, CT, where my boarding school was. East Haddam is the home of the Goodspeed Opera House... a charming theater that does pretty good productions of musicals, both new and old.

Valadius Feb 06 2008 03:55 PM

Indeed - I saw a musical there. I forget what it was - something set around 1900.

soupcan Feb 25 2008 10:55 AM

UPDATE: We filed complaints with P&Z and the Conservation Commission concerning the wetlands. Conservation came out within a day or so, inspected and determined that there wasn't any environmental concern. They tested the water samples and found no harmful chemicals. I asked about the amount of water and the erosion. The answer I got was that that is what wetlands are for - to have some place the water can runoff to. Apparently the volume of water doesn't matter. The only thing they would be concerned about was whether there was less than 20' from where the water was drained from before it made its way to the wetlands. The reason being that any harmful chemicals/minerals would have at least 20' feet of ground to be absorbed/filtered before hitting the wetlands. Damage to my property is also not an environmental concern. He told me that my issue was a P&Z one. That was all until we went away for the week to Colorado. We came back late Saturday night and there was a message from Mrs. Douchebag asking me to call her. I returned the call this morning and left a message on her voice mail. In the meantime I called P&Z to see if the D'Bags had been contacted regarding the complaint. They told me that their property had been inspected, and they were found to be in violation. They were sent a letter requesting permits for every structure on their property and told to remove the ice rink by March 7th. If they want to then apply for a variance for the ice rink they have that option. Variances are hard to get and could take up to a year. Even so they would have to prove that if they were issued a variance that whatever structure they built would not be objectionable to or inconvenience their neighbors. Good luck. Awaiting Mrs. D's return call...

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 25 2008 10:59 AM

Just outta curiousity: How MILFy is Mrs. D?

soupcan Feb 25 2008 11:05 AM

Extremely un-MILF-y. Tall, man-like, bottom-heavy. Blonde but very plain-looking. She could definitely beat up her husband if she wanted to.

AG/DC Feb 25 2008 11:07 AM

Round One goes to the D's. You better land a haymaker in Round Two.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 25 2008 11:08 AM

OK, I'm back on your side now.

soupcan Feb 25 2008 11:10 AM

="AG/DC"]Round One goes to the D's. You better land a haymaker in Round Two. I didn't win the fight? P&Z told them to remove it by March 7th. TKO in the second round, no? Not my problem anymore. Now they have to deal with the town. P.S. I did notice that when we got home, the lights had been taken down.

AG/DC Feb 25 2008 11:15 AM

Yeah, you landed one. Fight's over, I guess, when that thing comes down, hopefully without flooding your place. I can be really conflict averse, particluarly over the telephone, particluarly with people I'll be expecting to see regularly. I'd be the wussy guy waiting until their car pulls away in order to get the voicemail when I return Mrs. D's call.

metirish Feb 25 2008 11:24 AM

Soups post started out bad, I feared the worst but it got better, great result so far and am interested to see what the Douches have to say to you.

Nymr83 Feb 25 2008 11:34 AM

i wonder if somewhere on the internet there is a thread about the "douchebag neighbors" who "hate my hockey rink" and "really oughta mind their business"? might be at a Yankees forum.

soupcan Feb 25 2008 11:51 AM

="AG/DC"]I can be really conflict averse, particluarly over the telephone, particluarly with people I'll be expecting to see regularly. I'd be the wussy guy waiting until their car pulls away in order to get the voicemail when I return Mrs. D's call. Yeah, I'm not real big on conflict myself and I don't relish bumping into them but really what choice did I have? As uncomfortable as the whole thing makes me feel I have to do the right thing. The right thing is standing up for my own (property) rights, not letting them take advantage of my good nature and not ignoring their phone calls. I wasn't going to do anything until that thing burst. Their response to that was beyond selfish. I didn't sue them, I notified the town that they weren't complying with P&Z regulations and that their noncompliance was adversly affecting my property values as well as my quality of life (all true). He's the attorney and he was the first one to mention lawsuit. I'd also like to set an example for my kids to not people take advantage of them and when you have a disagreement go through the proper channels to solve it. Listen - if P&Z had said there was nothing wrong and they didn't need permits - then fine. If I chose to run for First Selectman to change that then so be it. I have to live by the rules and so should they. In the immortal words of George Costanza: "We're living in a society here!"

soupcan Feb 25 2008 11:59 AM

Nymr83 wrote: i wonder if somewhere on the internet there is a thread about the "douchebag neighbors" who "hate my hockey rink" and "really oughta mind their business"? might be at a Yankees forum. I'm sure that everyone they talk to agrees with them as do the people I talk to agree with me. Look at those pictures objectively though - The two sets of neighbors do not get along, the structure is illegal as there are no permits. There is no respect for the mandated setbacks. There is damage done to the neighbor's yard and there are lights that shine in the bedroom of the neighbor's house. Where is thier argument that they are right and we are the douchebags? I'm not doing this because I'm an asshole - I'm doing it because it is truly detrimental to my property and interests.

AG/DC Feb 25 2008 12:05 PM

Where is thier argument that they are right and we are the douchebags? You just are! Seriously, their argument is that hockey is fun, and it's for the kids and it gives them something to do besides ecstasy, and a good neighbor should be able to appreciate this. It's just so kids can play in their yard, which every kid should have the right to do. It's just not a very mature argument.

metsguyinmichigan Feb 25 2008 12:16 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 25 2008 12:48 PM

Soup, this is a slam-dunk victory for you. They were nuts to think a structure of that size was alllowable without a permit in the first place, and inconsiderate bastards to think that you'd want to look out your window at that all winter. And that thing would only expand if let alone. Given the expense of rink time, you know there would be teams out there all-day, every day with people walking though your yard and throwing their trash all over the place. It would be one thing if that was in a backyard that backed up to woods or something and wasn't in view of anyone else. But to put that in that place considering the layout of your yards is just nonsensical. Good for you. (And you just know their kid is named Derek and their dogs are "Jeter" and "Giambi.")

soupcan Feb 25 2008 12:18 PM

I'm a good guy (really, I swear, I am) and if that's all it was I could live with it. Wouldn't be happy but I'd do it. Again - I wasn't going to necessarily do anything until it burst and they were dismissive towards me about it. In my first post in this thread I said I was reluctant to do anything because of how much enjoyment their daughter was getting out of it. They could have talked to me about it and posed that argument and just even acted concerned about my damage. They did none of that. Fuck them.

soupcan Feb 25 2008 12:20 PM

="metsguyinmichigan"]Good for you. (And you just know their kid is named Derek and their dogs are "Jeter" and "Giambi.") Thanks mgim. And their dog does have a stupid name.

themetfairy Feb 25 2008 12:37 PM

="soupcan"] ="metsguyinmichigan"]Good for you. (And you just know their kid is named Derek and their dogs are "Jeter" and "Giambi.") Thanks mgim. And their dog does have a stupid name. Yes? Do tell!

Valadius Feb 25 2008 12:38 PM

Good for you Soupy! And what is their dog's stupid name?

soupcan Feb 25 2008 12:46 PM

They got the dog on a trip to New Orleans and named it 'Orleanie'.

AG/DC Feb 25 2008 12:47 PM

Did they get the cat on trip to New Jersey and name it PissCatAway?

metsmarathon Feb 25 2008 12:55 PM

soupcan wrote: They got the dog on a trip to New Orleans and named it 'Orleanie'. jeez... they could've at least named the poor thing 'gnawlins'

MFS62 Feb 26 2008 04:15 PM

You coulda' called Congress and told them that the kid hockey players were all on steroids. Later

soupcan Feb 27 2008 09:03 AM

Wife informs me that the rink is being dismantled as I type this. One more picture for you - this is the view from my bedroom. The fence is on the property line, the trees are mine.

themetfairy Feb 27 2008 09:18 AM

Damn that thing is big! Congrats on getting Mr. and Mrs. D to finally remove the monstrosity.

metsguyinmichigan Feb 27 2008 10:10 AM

Is that their house way off in the distance? Looks like they built the thing a lot closer to your house than their's! The sheer gall some people have is amazing.

soupcan Feb 27 2008 12:01 PM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Is that their house way off in the distance? No, that's actually a working vegetable farm on the other side of their yard. The farmer's got like 10 acres there. He was eyeballing the rink a few weeks back wondering what to make of it. If he was so inclined he could've complained as well because they didn't respect his setbacks either. Unless there's different rules for farms or something. The rink takes up probably half the width of their yard right there. That's one of the reasons they were in violation - no setbacks.

cooby Feb 27 2008 09:03 PM

Why does your picutre look like somebody crumbled it up?

Rockin' Doc Feb 27 2008 09:28 PM

The picture looks fine to me. I think maybe your monitor is cracked, cooby.

Nymr83 Feb 27 2008 09:37 PM

nice to see that the monstrosity is on its way down. this is the MVP thread for the year i think.

soupcan Feb 28 2008 07:52 AM

cooby wrote: Why does your picutre look like somebody crumbled it up? Because it was crumpled up. Someone other than me took it, printed it out and gave it to me. It was in my briefcase all folded/crumpled before I got around to scanning it. ="Rockin' Doc"]The picture looks fine to me. I think maybe your monitor is cracked, cooby. Leave it to the eye doctor to make jokes about vision. Always trying to drum up business aint ya?

Rockin' Doc Feb 28 2008 06:25 PM

Actually, I was trying to sell cooby a new monitor. Soup, I'm glad to see that you won this battle with a decisive knock out. I expect your lawyer neighbor will be watching you closely in the future. Hopefully, it won't be too chilly ion your street this summer.

soupcan Feb 28 2008 06:37 PM

I can already feel the chill. I got a copy of the letter P&Z sent to them and it was a doozy. Not only did it tell them to remove the rink it also demanded they provide permits for their tool shed, swingset and trampoline. Both the shed and swingset are in violation of the setbacks and I didn't even know they needed a permit for the trampoline. I'm pretty sure that they didn't either. Now they've either got to get permits for that stuff (assuming they can), move them (no easy feats for the shed and swingset) or get variances. I feel a little bad, I never meant for all that to happen.

MFS62 Feb 28 2008 06:48 PM

soupcan wrote: I feel a little bad, I never meant for all that to happen. Then you, sir, are a true Saint. Most of us would be laughing our arses off and saying that justice has been served. They deserved it. Now at least sit back and enjoy it. Later

Rockin' Doc Feb 28 2008 06:53 PM

Damn, that's a tough P&Z board. I'm with Soup, I'd hate to see the little girl lose her swing set and trampoline just because her parents were callous idiots.

Nymr83 Feb 28 2008 07:01 PM

...

themetfairy Feb 28 2008 07:29 PM

Trampolines need permits? That's one tough town!

cooby Feb 28 2008 08:17 PM

Rockin' Doc wrote: Actually, I was trying to sell cooby a new monitor. . Or new glasses!

Valadius Feb 28 2008 10:51 PM

Wow, that's pretty harsh - permits for a swing set and trampoline?

metsmarathon Feb 29 2008 05:20 AM

let that be a lesson for anyone - before you erect any semi-permanent structures on your property, swing through the local planning commission, just in case. also, good neighbors check with their most-likely-to-be-affected neighbors first, too.

themetfairy Feb 29 2008 05:48 AM

Good point marathon. Last fall neighbors of ours got rid of a large tree in their backyard - before they did that, they spoke to us and made sure we were ok with that. I thought it was unnecessary for them to worry about what we thought, since the tree was completely theirs, but I appreciated the gesture.

seawolf17 Feb 29 2008 07:38 AM

If you've poured concrete for the swing set, I'd say that's pretty permanent. The trampoline's a bit much, but if regulating them means it keeps the monstrosities out of my neighborhood, I'm all for it. I tell you, soup, I'm living vicariously through you. I'm just waiting for our douchebag neighbor to do something that stupid.

soupcan Feb 29 2008 12:11 PM

Be careful what you wish for Wolfie. I've got upwards of 20 some odd years of antagonism staring at me from the other side of that fence now. We've done a lot of work to our house and property since we moved in 7 years ago but each time we checked with the town before we did it and got the necessary permits. I've even had to go to a hearing before the zoning board and plead my case to get a variance. I can't even fathom putting any kind of structure, let alone huge ice rink, in my backyard without first doing that.

cooby Feb 29 2008 06:47 PM

soupcan wrote: ="cooby"]Why does your picutre look like somebody crumbled it up? Because it was crumpled up. Someone other than me took it, printed it out and gave it to me. It was in my briefcase all folded/crumpled before I got around to scanning it. ="Rockin' Doc"]The picture looks fine to me. I think maybe your monitor is cracked, cooby. Leave it to the eye doctor to make jokes about vision. Always trying to drum up business aint ya? Okay maybe I have a tendency to ask goofy questions. But you must admit, I am a deep thinker. Who took a picture out of your bedroom window, if not you?

soupcan Feb 29 2008 07:21 PM

The guy whose car is in the picture.

cooby Feb 29 2008 07:28 PM

{snicker}

soupcan Feb 29 2008 08:51 PM

Our contractor was over, could not believe what he saw (the rink) and had to take a picture.

themetfairy Feb 29 2008 08:56 PM

Back from February 4th in this thread - ]MDB: "We don't need any permits, there's no foundation" SC: "That doesn't matter, who told you that?" MDB: "The contractor" SC: "Wow, what a surprise." I don't think that contractor is getting any more business in Soup's neighborhood.

Rockin' Doc Feb 29 2008 09:35 PM

Soupcan - "Be careful what you wish for Wolfie. I've got upwards of 20 some odd years of antagonism staring at me from the other side of that fence now." I can attest to how uncomfortable such a situation can be. Roughly 15-16 years ago, I hired the younger sister of the wife of a couple living 2 houses down the street from us. Not only were we neighbors, but they and the couple in the house between each of ours often socialized together as friends. Unfortunately, a few weeks after she started work in our office, I caught the younger sister (I'll call her Ms. X) stealing from our office. Needless to say, my partners and I fired the young woman. We soon learned that she had also stolen from the purses and lockers of her coworkers. She also had conned some of our elderly (cash paying) patients out of money by overcharging them for items and then pocketing the overpayment. When I returned home from work at the end of the day, I saw that Ms. X's car was parked in her sisters driveway . No sooner had I entered my house and the phone rang. It was my friend, Ms. X's brother-in-law, calling to try to negotiate a settlement on behalf of the family. He requested that I allow the family to repay any money she "may have taken" and to allow her to "quit" rather than be fired. I told him that I was only one of five doctors in the office and that the two senior doctors fully planned to file criminal charges against Ms. X. As a junior partner, I was not in a position to dissuade them, even if I wanted to. He told me I was going to ruin his sister-in-law's life over "one little mistake". Ms. X eventually plead no contest to charges of grand larceny. In return for a suspended sentence and parole, she agreed to pay compensation for the amount of money we could prove she had stolen. Her family refused to acknowledge my wife and I from that day forward. Their young son, was no longer allowed to speak to or play with ours. I don't know what they told other neighbors, but I opted to never mention the circumstances of Ms. X's ceased employment at our office. Their open shunning of us caused some awkward moments for neighbors that were mutual friends of our two families. Definitely not a fun time and I'm glad it is now in the past. I sympathize with your situation Soup, but your neighbors left you little alternative. I wish you the best in the future and hope that there a minimal repercussions that arise from this unfortunate episode.

Nymr83 Mar 01 2008 02:15 AM

you don't deserve the awkwardness with other neighbors, you should have openly told them WHY the douchebagneighbors werent speaking to you. With any luck you could have shamed them into moving.

cooby Mar 01 2008 05:44 AM

="soupcan"]Our contractor was over, could not believe what he saw (the rink) and had to take a picture. Your contractor just happened to be in your bedroom? with a camera? PS, I'm missing the part that says your other neighbors are mad at you

soupcan Mar 01 2008 08:01 AM

="cooby"] ="soupcan"]Our contractor was over, could not believe what he saw (the rink) and had to take a picture. Your contractor just happened to be in your bedroom? with a camera? PS, I'm missing the part that says your other neighbors are mad at you He was over for something else, alway has a camera with him. I think Namor was addressing Doc's story about his other neighbors.

cooby Mar 01 2008 08:42 AM

Ah now I understand! The contractor, over to the house for "something else", snaps a random picture out the bedroom window...(Dumbass got his own car in the picture)...sent it to you to make you crazy...you crumple it up in your rage and stuff it into your briefcase! Later, as the douchbag neighbor saga unfolds, you remember the picture and use it as Exhibit A in Zoning court, as well as to show your online friends! Only cooby, the Eternal Dreamer, figured out what you were really saying between the lines. PS, I think you are right about Nymr.

HahnSolo Mar 01 2008 09:24 AM

FWIW, In my town, sheds, swingsets (be they permanent or not), additions to decks, you name it, you need a permit for. My next door neighbor (good neighbor, good friend, Mets fan) has a shed in a spot too close to my property line. He has no permit, but its not bothering me. I did tell him though, that if zoning ever came to his house, they would make him move it. At the very least, you need to talk to your town's zoning committee. How these people thought they could build a rink that size without a permit is beyond me. They are either totally naive to believe they could do it, or totally stupid to think no one would have a problem with it.

soupcan Mar 01 2008 09:26 AM

cooby wrote: Ah now I understand! The contractor, over to the house for "something else", snaps a random picture out the bedroom window...(Dumbass got his own car in the picture)...sent it to you to make you crazy...you crumple it up in your rage and stuff it into your briefcase! Later, as the douchbag neighbor saga unfolds, you remember the picture and use it as Exhibit A in Zoning court, as well as to show your online friends! Only cooby, the Eternal Dreamer, figured out what you were really saying between the lines. PS, I think you are right about Nymr. *sigh* Contractor was over to look at some work we had done in the master bedroom. So he was going to be in the bedroom anyway. He included his car in the picture to get an idea of the size of the rink. Gave us two copies. Included one in our P&Z complaint, put the other one in my briefcase. Later as the saga unfolded, I remembered I had it with me and scanned it to post here.

themetfairy Mar 01 2008 09:26 AM

]They are either totally naive to believe they could do it, or totally stupid to think no one would have a problem with it. Or arrogant enough to think that they could just do what they wanted and that nobody would confront them about it.

cooby Mar 01 2008 09:55 AM

soupcan wrote: ="cooby"]Ah now I understand! The contractor, over to the house for "something else", snaps a random picture out the bedroom window...(Dumbass got his own car in the picture)...sent it to you to make you crazy...you crumple it up in your rage and stuff it into your briefcase! Later, as the douchbag neighbor saga unfolds, you remember the picture and use it as Exhibit A in Zoning court, as well as to show your online friends! Only cooby, the Eternal Dreamer, figured out what you were really saying between the lines. PS, I think you are right about Nymr. *sigh* Contractor was over to look at some work we had done in the master bedroom. So he was going to be in the bedroom anyway. He included his car in the picture to get an idea of the size of the rink. Gave us two copies. Included one in our P&Z complaint, put the other one in my briefcase. Later as the saga unfolded, I remembered I had it with me and scanned it to post here. Yep, exactly what I said. Poor soupy. Don't worry, we all love you.

Rockin' Doc Mar 01 2008 07:39 PM

Nymr - "you don't deserve the awkwardness with other neighbors, you should have openly told them WHY the douchebagneighbors werent speaking to you. With any luck you could have shamed them into moving." It was our mutual friends in the neighborhood that often seemed to be put in awkward situation that made them feel uneasy. I never noticed that it really effected our relationship with others on our street. Ms. X's life continued to spiral out of control in subsequent years and I think her family came to realize that my partners and I weren't quite so evil. After roughly 3 years, they hosted a large cookout in their backyard and much to our surprise (and I think of many others) they invited my wife and I. I figured what the hell and eventually convinced my wife to attend with me. That night seemed to put an end to the feud. Our former friendship was never the same again, but at least we could wave, speak, and be cordial to one another. The next year, my wife and I built our current home and moved out of the neighborhood. Last I knew, they were still in the old neighborhood. Ms. X went on to be fired from a succession of jobs and was arrested a few times on various shoplifting, petty theft, drug possesion, writing bad checks, and assault charges. It led to her eventually being listed in the local paper as one of the 10 Most Wanted Fugitives in our city a few years ago after she skipped bail on the assault charge.

Farmer Ted Jul 11 2008 10:35 AM

A timely bump. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/nyregion/10towns.html?ex=1373428800&en=3a8a02a8cafa6c8e&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

John Cougar Lunchbucket Jul 11 2008 10:48 AM

Liz Pate = cunt.

AG/DC Jul 11 2008 10:52 AM

Pate's all over the place, her address also. http://www.greenwichtime.com/ci_9834888

seawolf17 Jul 11 2008 11:25 AM

Why can't these kids just play violent, pornographic video games and mainline heroin like their friends? Playing outside? Why, I oughta... Thank you, elected officials, for helping stop this monstrosity. Give these kids a dimebag and stick them behind the high school.

metirish Jul 11 2008 11:28 AM

If only there was a field next to some public housing for these thugs to play on.

Frayed Knot Jul 11 2008 11:36 AM

My father grew up in an era where track & field athletes were widely known and admired. As such, he and some of his friends decided to take up pole-vaulting as a recreational hobby. (yes, really) And, much like these kids, they set-up a mini-training ground in a nearby vacant lot. They built some standards and sunk them into the ground; used old foam and mattresses for landing pits, etc. The only thing purchased, I believe, was the vaulting pole itself. To this day he talks about not just that they did it but that no adults or town officials felt the need to step in and tell them they couldn't. Needless to say that doesn't happen now - and not just because you can't go to the local sporting goods store anymore and purchase a vaulting pole retail.

metsguyinmichigan Jul 11 2008 11:42 AM

When I worked for a paper in Connecticut, I was geeked beyond all to discover that the Wiffle ball factory and offices was in the town I covered. The people there were kind enough to all me to come over for a rather flimsy story and told me all sorts of neat things about how the balls were designed. The bottom line: They have no idea how it curves. It just does. And they accept that. Obviously something with the holes, but no idea why that particular configuration makes it act the way it does. I think there's a big difference in what these kids are doing and the bleeping hockey rink that Soup was subjected to. He showed great restraint.

AG/DC Jul 11 2008 11:44 AM

The Great Depression and World War II were wonderful for getting kids out from under that oppressive supervision.

Nymr83 Jul 11 2008 12:22 PM

the city really has no choice but to do something, if they just ignore it the first person to get hurt will sue. it sucks, and it shouldnt be that way, but its true.

seawolf17 Jul 11 2008 02:41 PM

metsguyinmichigan wrote: When I worked for a paper in Connecticut, I was geeked beyond all to discover that the Wiffle ball factory and offices was in the town I covered. The people there were kind enough to all me to come over for a rather flimsy story and told me all sorts of neat things about how the balls were designed. The bottom line: They have no idea how it curves. It just does. And they accept that. Do they offer tours? I drive past that building on Route 8 all the time.

metsmarathon Jul 11 2008 04:54 PM

the kids should turn their green monster into a temporary installation. their big mistake was in planting the concrete footings. if its all temporary, its just kids playing in a field. then that bitch can't say a damned thing.

Nymr83 Jul 11 2008 05:24 PM

that might have gotten the neighbors off their backs (and it might not have, neighbors can be assholes) but the city would still want to give them the boot for liability reasons

metsguyinmichigan Jul 14 2008 06:56 AM

seawolf17 wrote: ="metsguyinmichigan"]When I worked for a paper in Connecticut, I was geeked beyond all to discover that the Wiffle ball factory and offices was in the town I covered. The people there were kind enough to all me to come over for a rather flimsy story and told me all sorts of neat things about how the balls were designed. The bottom line: They have no idea how it curves. It just does. And they accept that. Do they offer tours? I drive past that building on Route 8 all the time. I'm not sure about tours. But they were such nice folks -- and the place is so small -- that I bet if you called and said you were a Wiffle devotee they would show you around. Keep in mind, it was almost 20 years ago that I did this. Not sure how things have changed there.

AG/DC Jul 14 2008 07:15 AM

Before consigning Ms. Pate to a far-flung ring of Hell, I'd like to hear from Soup and see how much sympathy he has for her.

soupcan Jul 14 2008 07:53 AM

I was staying away because I thought my opinion would be unpopular, but since you asked.... I think she's got a point and if I were her I'd be annoyed. Would I push the kids out? I don't think I would but the drainage issue might be a problem for her property. I understand what she's saying about coming home after a day of work and just wanting peace and quiet. Although boys playing wiffleball isn't the kind of noise that would bother me. The thing is - you buy a house on a piece of property that you like for various reasons in a town whose laws you expect be enforced. Then people take it upon themselves to do something that effects you and your property in a negative way without going through the proper channels and because you point this out, you're the bad guy. She didn't buy a house next to a wiffleball field for a reason. In addition, what namor said is true: ]the city really has no choice but to do something, if they just ignore it the first person to get hurt will sue. it sucks, and it shouldnt be that way, but its true. And that's not Pate's fault.

Mendoza Line Jul 17 2008 08:27 AM

Update from today's [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/nyregion/17towns.html?_r=1&oref=slogin]NY Times[/url]. ]Update: Alas, the saga of the Wiffle ball kids of Greenwich, Conn., seems to have come to a lawyerly, if not entirely happy ending. After a group of players, parents and town officials met for two hours on Wednesday, First Selectman Peter Tesei said that the field youngsters built in May in an empty lot owned by the town would have to come down by Friday because it raised unacceptable liability issues. The town plans to help them build another field at a nearby school. “I think they could have let us play a few more weeks,” said Vincent Provenzano, one of the organizers. Then he excused himself, saying he was in the middle of a game. Why would the liability issues go away if the town builds a new field? Sure, the new field will likely be safer than the old one. But isn't the town held to a higher standard of care on a site that it builds and sanctions than on a vacant lot that a bunch of kids decide to take over just for kicks and grins?