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Jorge and Scott (Split from Finally Spring Training)

Valadius Mar 03 2008 06:14 AM

]Sources: Scott Schoeneweis, Jorge Sosa being shopped BY ADAM RUBIN DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER Monday, March 3rd 2008, 4:00 AM VERO BEACH, Fla. - Mets GM Omar Minaya has let teams know that relievers Scott Schoeneweis and Jorge Sosa can be obtained in trades, according to sources briefed on the players' availability. Schoeneweis has two years and $7.2 million left on his original three-year deal. Sosa will earn $2 million in his final year before free agency. The Mets like Rule 5 pick Steven Register, who has a deceptive fastball, but will have to offer him back to the Rockies if there isn't room in the bullpen at Shea. Trading Sosa would open the long-relief role and help get Mike Pelfrey onto the staff in some capacity. Please get this done, Omar. PLEASE.

AG/DC Mar 03 2008 06:33 AM

Take it easy.

OlerudOwned Mar 03 2008 08:14 AM

I'm fine with Schoeneweis as long as we stop trying to make him pitch to righties. Look at his splits, they're insane. http://www.fangraphs.com/splits.aspx?playerid=33&position=P&page=0&split=lr&type=full His LOB% disparity between facing righties and lefties is gi-fucking-gantic. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/schoesc01.shtml .229 point gap in OPS for his career between lefties and righties faced. Is he overpayed? Hell and yes. But just play to the guys strength for christ sakes. As for Sosa, I kind of like having him around. He's flexible. But if Minaya can get value for the farm system, by all means explore it.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 03 2008 08:20 AM

I like having Sosa around too. Would warehousing him in New Orleans be an option? That would allow them to keep Register on the 25-man roster and Sosa can be summoned when needed.

metirish Mar 03 2008 09:30 AM

From a Newsday Blog. ] The Mets announced this morning that Darryl Strawberry has been hired as a full-time instructor. Strawberry just walked in the door and still looks like he could rip a few tape-measure shots during BP. "It's great to come home," Strawberry said. "This is where I got my start and where my heart is. Omar PLEASE keep Sosa......I swear to never again ask you for anything.

AG/DC Mar 03 2008 09:47 AM

Why the mad desire to hold onto Sosa? It's not like he was an exception to the bullpen failures of last September, even including his beautiful job right here in DC: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2007/B09190WAS2007.htm

Rockin' Doc Mar 03 2008 10:57 AM

Sosa did a decent job for the Mets last season. He can fill the long relief role as well as give an inning late in other games. Considering Hernandez and Martinez are both likely to miss some starts, there needs to be someone other than Pelfrey ready to fill a rotation spot. Sosa can fill in as a spot starter should more than one of the Mets rotation go down for some time. Who else is there to fill that role? I'm fine with keeping Sosa unless Omar gets a deal he just can't refuse, which is unlikely. I would love to see the Mets get Nick Johnson from the Nationals, but I seriously doubt that Sosa, Schoeneweis, and Gotay will come close to getting that deal done. I'm rather indifferent to Schoeneweis. He is grossly overpaid, but that a previous mistake. His splits make him a perfect candidate to be the Mets situational lefty out of the bullpen. However, if I'm the opposing manager and he's brrought in to face one of my lefties, I would simply use a pinch hitter and force him to face a right handed batter (unless the lefty is one of my stars). I guess the question in my mind becomes, do you really want Schoenewies facing the Howard, Utley, Fielder, et al in crucial situations on a regular basis?

AG/DC Mar 03 2008 11:09 AM

Rockin' Doc wrote: Who else is there to fill that role? Well, Tony Armas and Joselo Diaz are the first to come to mind. Schoeneweiss also. None, obviously, are ideal, and your point is taken. We need a plan B at first, but we need a plan F-J at starting pitcher. Rockin' Doc wrote: However, if I'm the opposing manager and he's brrought in to face one of my lefties, I would simply use a pinch hitter and force him to face a right handed batter (unless the lefty is one of my stars). That's a minor victory in itself. Getting a guy switched out in the sixth or seventh can screw a manager in the eighth or ninth. Rockin' Doc wrote: I guess the question in my mind becomes, do you really want Schoenewies facing the Howard, Utley, Fielder, et al in crucial situations on a regular basis? Well, that depends on how crucial and how regular. He would start off as a third option behind Wagner and Feliciano, and his opportunitites would expand depending on his perofrmance or theirs. But, yeah, I'd rather he get specialized spots, and be the least likely Met lefty to face Pat Burrell or Albert Pujols.

Vic Sage Mar 03 2008 11:20 AM

]I guess the question in my mind becomes, do you really want Schoenewies facing the Howard, Utley, Fielder, et al in crucial situations on a regular basis? yes on Howard and Fielder, who have big differentials when facing LHPs, and no on Utley who is an equal opportunity basher. And if bringing in Scotty forces the other manager to PH for a potent LH bat, then we go to Sanchez, Heilman, Sosa, Smith, etc., and its still a good matchup for us. Look, Scot had a bad year but he's an ok pitcher if you use him correctly (and if he's healthy, of course). Yes, he's overpaid, but that's not the issue. If they move him, it'll be for contract reasons, not baseball reasons, so its unlikely they'll get back anything of value if they're trying to move a bad contract. We'd still have Feliciano as a LHed specialist in the pen, so it wouldn't necessarily hurt us to lose Scot, but lets not pretend his coming or going is of much consequence beyond saving Freddie's $$

smg58 Mar 03 2008 11:56 AM

Sosa caved in September after throwing an insane 20 IP in his first month as a reliever. He could still be a valuable asset if you keep his workload reasonable. And he gives the team a legit spot starter option. He might not be so easy to replace. We've discussed Schoeneweis already. His contract will be a tough sell to another team. He's fine as a specialist, but if the Mets need innings from the pen like they did last year then he's not the guy. I'm not sure they can afford to give significant major-league innings to a work in progress like Register, either. But the Mets do have other pitchers in the system who at least have a chance of outperforming Schoeneweis and possibly Matt Wise as well.

metirish Mar 03 2008 11:57 AM

Out of the options the Mets have I would have more faith in Sosa as the long man / spot starter type.

Frayed Knot Mar 03 2008 12:21 PM

I mentioned in one of the Delgado discussions that I figure the pen to be the most likely spot that any potential deal would come from so it's not surprising that one or both of these guys are/could be on the trading block. Neither Schoeneweis or Sosa is a guy can't live without. The only problem with Sosa is that we're already short on backup starters. Assuming Duque + Pelfrey are #s 5 & 6 who becomes 7, 8 & 9? (you'll need 'em at some point). I assume what Omar is likely fishing for is the elusive RH-hitting OF/1B backup/platoon. P.S. Thx for saving a perfectly worthy topic from the depths of the dreaded 'All shit that happens in Feb-Mar' thread

Benjamin Grimm Mar 03 2008 12:32 PM

Frayed Knot wrote: Assuming Duque + Pelfrey are #s 5 & 6 who becomes 7, 8 & 9? (you'll need 'em at some point). My first thought was, well, they can still sign Kyle Lohse. But that wouldn't make sense if, as Adam Rubin says, the reason they're considering dealing Sosa is to free up a roster spot for Register. Lohse would block Register in the same way that Sosa would. Given that, if Sosa is dealt, I'd guess that the number 7 starter is Jon Niese. And I haven't a clue who numbers 8 and 9 would be. Maybe they'll stock New Orleans with one or two veteran pitchers who are on their last legs. (You know, like Lima or Park.) Or guys like Lawrence or Williams. Those kinds of guys are good to have a plane ride away if you need them. (And you keep your fingers crossed that you never will.)

AG/DC Mar 03 2008 12:35 PM

Still available starting pitchers: Roger Clemens Freddy Garcia Kyle Lohse Rodrigo Lopez Eric Milton Sidney Ponson John Thomson Jeff Weaver David Wells That's a lot of weighty guys. Assuming some of them --- Clemens, Garcia, Lohse, and Wells come to mind --- aren't about to take a minor-league offer, I say Thomson and Milton look the best. Lopez threw some good innings for Bob Apodaca last year.

Nymr83 Mar 03 2008 12:36 PM

]And if bringing in Scotty forces the other manager to PH for a potent LH bat, then we go to Sanchez, Heilman, Sosa, Smith, etc., and its still a good matchup for us. a pitcher who enters the game must face one batter (there might be an "or record an out" in there too for a situation where you enter the game and pick off a runner, i'm not sure) you can't bring S in to face a lefty and then yank him when the lefty gets pinch-hit for.

metirish Mar 03 2008 12:50 PM

I would have sworn to have seen that happen 83, so I guess the manager could have him throw one pitch then yank him?

AG/DC Mar 03 2008 12:52 PM

Nope. If a reliever comes on and is immediately followed by a batting change, it's for him to pitch.

seawolf17 Mar 03 2008 12:55 PM

He has to pitch to at least one batter. That's why the pinch-hitter-for-the-pinch-hitter thing happens.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 03 2008 12:56 PM

Unless he gets injured or something. But as Namor said, other than in that case, he has to face at least one batter. (I'm not sure if picking a runner off base would allow him to be removed from the game. I'm guessing no.)

Rotblatt Mar 03 2008 01:06 PM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Unless he gets injured or something. But as Namor said, other than in that case, he has to face at least one batter. (I'm not sure if picking a runner off base would allow him to be removed from the game. I'm guessing no.) But let's say he picks off the batter for the third out--does that mean his manager can't pinch hit for him? That seems too Byzantine a rule to me . . . I'm going to guess that he can either record an out or pitch to a batter.

Frayed Knot Mar 03 2008 01:58 PM

The deal is that a pitcher has to face at least one batter OR get an out.

Gwreck Mar 03 2008 03:00 PM

Vic Sage wrote: If they move him, it'll be for contract reasons, not baseball reasons, so its unlikely they'll get back anything of value if they're trying to move a bad contract. We'd still have Feliciano as a LHed specialist in the pen, so it wouldn't necessarily hurt us to lose Scot, but lets not pretend his coming or going is of much consequence beyond saving Freddie's $$ Wouldn't it be the complete opposite? That it'd be far more likely that we'd eat salary in order to get him out of town and to free up the roster spots?

Vic Sage Mar 03 2008 04:44 PM

So they should eat salary to dump guys with roles (albeit limited ones) on this year's squad, in order to bring pact prospects so we can make roster room for ... who... steve register? really? My point is that i don't think there is anybody in ST (or in the FA pool) that we should move Scot for, just to free up a roster spot. So, Omar likes Register. That's fine. Can he get lefties out? Scot can. Can he be a spot starter or long man? Sosa can. Lets be a little careful about suggesting we eat contracts to give away guys who have roles on the team, unless we're pretty sure we're upgrading this year's team in the process. Because the Mets (average age 31.3) are in full blown "win now" mode, and making moves to open spots for inexperienced guys and getting prospects back for veterans, doesn't sound like a great idea to me at this point in time. what's more likely is, having gone on a huge spending spree, Minaya is being asked to nibble down the payroll a bit. And getting rid of those marginal guys making more than the mininim (like sosa and schoenweis) is the way for him to to do that. And it opens up roster spots, too, if all he gets back are prospects, which allows him to keep Register on board, if that's what he wants to do.

Triple Dee Mar 04 2008 02:22 AM

Vic Sage wrote: So they should eat salary to dump guys with roles (albeit limited ones) on this year's squad, in order to bring pact prospects so we can make roster room for ... who... steve register? really? My point is that i don't think there is anybody in ST (or in the FA pool) that we should move Scot for, just to free up a roster spot. So, Omar likes Register. That's fine. Can he get lefties out? Scot can. Can he be a spot starter or long man? Sosa can. Omar is budgeting that Pedro will pitch 180+ IP in 2008. There's also sufficient evidence to suggest that Pelfrey can do the job at ML level. Both of these, assumptions seem reasonable. Unlike previous years, the Mets have significant depth in their starting rotation, and I think Omar is merely recognizing that. As noted in other recent threads, Willie's bullpen management philosophy is not really conducive to relievers who only pitch to one hitter, and at $3.6M a year the Show is a luxury the Mets can live without. Vic Sage wrote: what's more likely is, having gone on a huge spending spree, Minaya is being asked to nibble down the payroll a bit. And getting rid of those marginal guys making more than the mininim (like sosa and schoenweis) is the way for him to to do that. And it opens up roster spots, too, if all he gets back are prospects, which allows him to keep Register on board, if that's what he wants to do. I believe the Mets interest in Register is genuine, and may have bigger plans for him. I also doubt whether there is any immediate pressure to cut payroll per se, as long the Mets stay below the luxury tax threshold. By my calculations, the Mets are currently ~$17M below the CBT threshold. However, trading the Show and Sosa will dispense some of the perceived deadweight and will give the Mets some additional financial flexibility, in case they need to add somebody during the season. Doing it sooner than later is preferred because the market is always stronger at this time of the year.

Fman99 Mar 04 2008 06:09 AM

Triple Dee wrote: ="Vic Sage"]So they should eat salary to dump guys with roles (albeit limited ones) on this year's squad, in order to bring pact prospects so we can make roster room for ... who... steve register? really? My point is that i don't think there is anybody in ST (or in the FA pool) that we should move Scot for, just to free up a roster spot. So, Omar likes Register. That's fine. Can he get lefties out? Scot can. Can he be a spot starter or long man? Sosa can. Omar is budgeting that Pedro will pitch 180+ IP in 2008. There's also sufficient evidence to suggest that Pelfrey can do the job at ML level. Both of these, assumptions seem reasonable. Unlike previous years, the Mets have significant depth in their starting rotation, and I think Omar is merely recognizing that. As noted in other recent threads, Willie's bullpen management philosophy is not really conducive to relievers who only pitch to one hitter, and at $3.6M a year the Show is a luxury the Mets can live without. We have rotation depth? After Pedro, Santana, Ollie, Maine, Pelfrey and El Duque, who do we have? Vargas? Tony Armas? Of course it's still early, but since El Duque is already banged up, I would contend that the Mets have reached the depth of the starting rotation (that is, Pelf as the #5) that most Mets fans would feel comfortable having as options.

Triple Dee Mar 04 2008 06:24 AM

Fman99 wrote: We have rotation depth? After Pedro, Santana, Ollie, Maine, Pelfrey and El Duque, who do we have? Vargas? Tony Armas? "Rotation depth" in a relative sense, and, in particular, in contrast to opening day last season and the season before.

AG/DC Mar 04 2008 07:26 AM

I think any moving of Jorge C. Scott would be about getting depth behind their battered batters, and not trimming payroll. I think it'd be certain that they'd either have to pay out a salary chunk in moving the Show or take on an overpaid guy in return.

smg58 Mar 04 2008 07:53 AM

I'm for bringing my best seven relievers up north with me. I'm fairly confident that Sosa is one of the seven, and while I'm much less certain about Schoeneweis, nobody has demonstrated otherwise just yet. The Mets can't assume that their pen will be significantly better, or will be needed for significantly less innings, than last year. That ought to be a strong enough disincentive against fooling around. I'll give Register a spot if he earns it, but he may simply not be ready, and anybody who thinks the Mets can afford to reserve one bullpen spot for something like 50 low-impact innings is being silly.

AG/DC Mar 04 2008 08:04 AM

Well, people do it all the time, so it's not as silly as all that. The only point in dealing, again, would be to improve the depth of the batting contingent, so they can bring the best 25 up north.

Benjamin Grimm Mar 04 2008 08:09 AM

smg58 wrote: ...anybody who thinks the Mets can afford to reserve one bullpen spot for something like 50 low-impact innings is being silly. Wasn't that pretty much Sele's job last year?

metsguyinmichigan Mar 04 2008 09:52 AM

I'm surprised Jeff Weaver is still out there. He strikes me as the kind of guy Rick Peterson can spend 10 minutes with.... But seriously, there are worse guys to take a flier on.

smg58 Mar 04 2008 03:56 PM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: ="smg58"]...anybody who thinks the Mets can afford to reserve one bullpen spot for something like 50 low-impact innings is being silly. Wasn't that pretty much Sele's job last year? And we saw how that turned out.

AG/DC Mar 04 2008 07:37 PM

No big deal. How do we know how many innings Martinez is "budgeted" for? My impression is that he's budgeted for as many innings as he can pitch effectively.

AG/DC Mar 04 2008 07:55 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 04 2008 08:11 PM

(D'leted.)

Rockin' Doc Mar 04 2008 07:57 PM

Edgy, I think you may have made a wrong turn when you posted that last response in this thread.