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The Big Apple has the best CORE.

Nymr83 Mar 10 2008 11:18 AM

Spinning off something that was brought up in another thread about a week ago, I think the Mets have one of the best cores in baseball, even if the pieces around it are suspect. I would define the 'core' as players who are Young, Talented, Proven, and Under the control of the team for more than this year and next. Not all of these four elements are necessary for each player who is a member of the core, but the less you have of one the more you better make up for it elsewhere. A second way I'd be willing to define it is "this guy will be here and will still be producing 3 or 4 years from now" Here is the Mets 'core' in my mind: David Wright, 3B, 25 years old. he's got all 4 of the characteristics i pointed out and theres no question as to any of them. Jose Reyes, SS, 24. same as above Carlos Beltran, CF, 30. he's at about the upper end of the age spectrum for me but he's still young enough and he's plenty good Johan Santana, SP, 28. maybe the best pitcher in baseball and in his prime John Maine, SP, 26. entering his prime Oliver Perez, SP, 25. fail on being under the mets control, but is extremely talented and let$ not pretend the Met$ can't have him back if thats what they want. Heilman, 28, RP. anyone think more than a couple of teams are better? remember that the best of these guys are also the youngest. i'd put Philly up there (Howard, Utley, Rollins, Myers, Hamels) who else?

AG/DC Mar 10 2008 11:32 AM

You could add "modestly healthy" to the list of qualifiers, though you may judge that Beltran being close to the edge of disqualification by that category may combine with his middle-aginess and remove him.

AG/DC Mar 10 2008 11:53 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 10 2008 12:01 PM

OK, I'll start comparisons alphabetically with the Arizona Diamondbacks. Chris Snyder, c: 27, under control for this year and next, somewhat talented and modestly proven Conor Jackson, 1b, 26 almost 27, under control for three seasons, also somewhat talented and modestly proven, still working on providing the power you hope for in a firstbaseman in Arizona. Stephen Drew, ss, 25 next week, under control for four seasons, extremely talented but not quite proven. Mark Reynolds, 3b, 24 going on 25, under control for five seasons, slugged .495 as a rookie. Chris Young, cf, 24, four years of control, slammed 32 homers his second season, but posted a low batting average and OBP'd .295. I'll take him. Justin Upton, rf, 19, who knows but next year might be different. Brandon Webb, sp, 28 three more years, of choclately goodness. Dan Haren, sp, 28, three more years of strawberry goodness. Micah Owings, sp, five more years, not proven but a 4.30 ERA as an Arizona rookie is a strong statement. On the fringes of coriness are Tony Peņa, Chad Qualls, and Doug Slaten. None of these guys are Wright or Reyes... well, actually, Webb is, and Drew and Young are close, and the breadth of quasi-core guys is hard to sneeze at. Where do I sign up?

Valadius Mar 10 2008 12:00 PM

Don't forget the fact that Owings is one hell of a hitter.

AG/DC Mar 10 2008 12:02 PM

How does Atlanta's core look? I also think there's no reason to believe Oliver Perez is a snap of the fingers away from leaving the Mets.

Nymr83 Mar 10 2008 12:09 PM

I don't think Reynolds or Upton qualify at all, and Jackson barely. if theyare to be included you have to throw in Church and F. Martinez on the Mets side and probably Gotay too

Benjamin Grimm Mar 10 2008 12:11 PM

AG/DC wrote: I also think there's no reason to believe Oliver Perez is a snap of the fingers away from leaving the Mets. No, not unless that finger-snap occurs some time in December or January. There's a long way to go before Oliver's free agency. I think there's a decent enough chance that the Mets may not even opt to pursue him next winter. So much depends on how Perez's season goes.

AG/DC Mar 10 2008 12:12 PM

What disqualifies Reynolds? Do you have to do it twice to be proven?

Nymr83 Mar 10 2008 12:15 PM

Atlanta's core looks like crap (compared to ours) from where i'm sitting. Chuck James and Rafael Soriano are the only pitchers i'd list as a 'core' guys and they are a #3/4 and a reliever. McCann is nice and fits the bill. Teixiera is not under control after this year. Francoeur is above average. IF they keep Texeira around they're ok, but they are relying on old or unproven guys even more than the Mets will be the next few years.

Nymr83 Mar 10 2008 12:19 PM

AG/DC wrote: What disqualifies Reynolds? Do you have to do it twice to be proven? proven, like all the other criteria on this list, is a sliding scale. A 110 OPS+ in 366 ABs from a corner infielder is nice, but its hardly "ok, we're safe with this guy." I'd say he's less proven than Church, probably about as talented, obviously younger. he'd be a bit higher up than Gotay. I'm not saying Reynolds is a bad player, but my goal here wasn't to list every guy who constitutes a net positive for the organization but to identify the organzation's core of good players going forward.

AG/DC Mar 10 2008 12:25 PM

Yeah, a lot of those guys are perhaps at the fringe of the core on one criteron or another, but Reynolds smashed his way through the minors. http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=12077

metirish Mar 10 2008 12:33 PM

Cool thread title Nymr83. What about the Tampa Rays?

OlerudOwned Mar 11 2008 07:10 AM

Tampa is absolutely loaded between the majors and high minors. Their section in BP 2008 was practically wet from the writers drooling over it.

seawolf17 Mar 11 2008 07:17 AM

They don't have the "proven" factor yet, though.

AG/DC Mar 11 2008 08:12 AM

Let's try this. Since few of these factors --- talented, proven, etc. --- are black and white qualities, but rather exist on a continuum, I'm looking at the corey players from Arizona (I have no horse here, they're just the first team alphabetically) on a continuum. Player Position Youth Talent Provenness Control Chris Snyder c 2 2 2 2 Conor Jackson 1b 2.5 4 4 3 Stephen Drew ss 3 5 2 4 Mark Reynolds 3b 3 4 2 5 Chris Young cf 3 4 3 4 Justin Upton rf 5 5 1 5 Brandon Webb sp 2 5 5 3 Dan Haren sp 2 3.5 5 3 Micah Owings sp 3 3 2 5 Yusmeiro Petit sp 4 4 1 5 Tony Peņa rp 3 4 2 4 Chad Qualls rp 1 3 5 2 Doug Slaten rp 2 3 2 4 Total 35.5 49.5 36 49 170 Well, it's a start, but it comes out absoolutely imperfectly. Petit gets a 14 to Webb's 15. But I imagine controlling Webb for three years excites Arizona fans a lot more than controlling Petiti for five. Not 6.7% more.

Nymr83 Mar 11 2008 02:15 PM

i like your method but lets define the numbers Well control is easy, we ca use a number equal to the number of years left on the contract/until FA (but max 5) youth is similarly easy, 24 and under is 5, 25-26 is 4, 27-28 is 3, 29-30 is 2, 31-32 is 1, over 32 is 0. how do you want to scale provenness and talent? i think we need a few other rules to compare organizations: -we're looking for the CORE of the organization, not the entire org, so anyone under lets say a 12-15 total should be left out. -anyone in the low minors, anyone not likely to make an impact in MLB in 2008 is being left out as well, i don't care how hyped you are, you arent part of the team's core if you aren't ready to help yet, we're not judging farm systems.