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Pedro's Left Hamstring Thread

Triple Dee Apr 02 2008 06:16 AM

Willie says he's going to bring up Nelson Figueroa if Pedro goes on the DL according to Metsblog. Espen talks about signing Claudio Vargas. Metsblog also mentions Woody Williams.

metirish Apr 02 2008 06:33 AM

All were mentioned during the game on the air and here in the IGT. I would start Sosa and bring up Figueroa to replace him and it that doesn't go well then swap them for a few starts. A big no to Woody Williams form me.

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 06:34 AM

It's the dead rooster's revenge, I tells ya.

Frayed Knot Apr 02 2008 07:09 AM

Woody Williams is a Houston area native who said he would retire if he didn't make the Astros club and then specifically said he IS retired after he officially didn't make the Astros club.

soupcan Apr 02 2008 07:16 AM

I think I'm siding with Lunchables on this Pedro thing. I've told you guys before that the chick that cuts my kids hair goes out with (is now married to) one of the Mets assistant trainers. She's always said that her boyfriend/husband has told her that Pedro is a baby, that he whines about any minor discomfort and doesn't work hard to keep himself in shape contrary to what we've all been led to believe. This 'injury' could very well be a direct result of the Mets allowing him to rehab and condition himself on his own without direct supervision from the Mets. I think that when it became apparent that Pedro would not have the same success in his debut as Johan did in his, Pedro decided to, I don't know - I want to say feign injury but that might be too strong an accusation - take himself out of the game, blaming it on his hammy rather than having everyone compare him to Johan. This way he has an excuse for giving up 4 runs in 2 innings. He says he felt/heard a 'pop'. That would mean a tear no? If it comes out that there is in fact a tear then I apologize to Pedro for saying he faked it but I still say the Mets should have overseen hisconditioning. If there is no tear - am I maybe on the right track then?

Triple Dee Apr 02 2008 07:20 AM

metirish wrote: All were mentioned during the game on the air and here in the IGT. I didn't get to watch SNY's coverage so I missed all that chat. Instead I was blessed to listen to the Marlins announcers, for the second day straight, harp on about Alfredo Amezaga as if was the second coming of Willie Mays. Lucky me.

metirish Apr 02 2008 07:23 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 02 2008 07:39 AM

I don't know about all that Soup, the Mets hired Pedro's personnel trainer , by all accounts he's in great shape and really would one of the games all time great pitchers and competitors fake injury because the new star player pitched a decent game the night before?. Pedro I have no doubt can be a Diva but not to that level.

metirish Apr 02 2008 07:24 AM

Triple Dee wrote: ="metirish"]All were mentioned during the game on the air and here in the IGT. I didn't get to watch SNY's coverage so I missed all that chat. Instead I was blessed to listen to the Marlins announcers, for the second day straight, harp on about Alfredo Amezaga as if was the second coming of Willie Mays. Lucky me. Certainly not meant as a slight by me....I tuned into the Marlins for an inning and really they are horrible.

soupcan Apr 02 2008 07:26 AM

You're probably right irish. I'm probably completely wrong. These thoughts just pop into my head.

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 07:32 AM

There are sort of three levels of accusations there, aren't there? 1) Pedro doesn't train well; 2) the Mets let him train with inadequate supervision; 3) that he faked an injury --- which doesn't really jive with (1). (Is the injury a product of bad conditioning or his imagination.) I'm most sympathetic to (1), and least to (3), but that would at least mean Pedro will be back soon.

Willets Point Apr 02 2008 07:33 AM

4) Shit happens.

soupcan Apr 02 2008 07:41 AM

Okay my post maybe went a bit too far. How about - he doesn't train well, so when he was pitching poorly and his hammy or whatever is not 100% he decides, rather than to tough it out, to take himself out of the game and blame that rather than he's just having a bad game? I don't think Pedro's diva-ness should be underestimated here. Just as I thought having Johan could inspire him, not being able to pitch at Santana's level could discourage him.

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 07:50 AM

That works. I'm not sure I buy it, but it's possible.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 07:52 AM

No way was that injury faked. The SNY camera caught Pedro's leg doing a funny buckle as he delivered that pitch. Intentionally jiggling your knee during a delivery would be reckless; it could cause the fake injury to become a real one instead. I didn't hear much of the on-air speculation, and I wasn't in the IGT, but my plan matches what was stated above: promote Nelson Figgy for long relief and let Sosa get a start or two. He probably wouldn't need much more than that, as long as Orlando Hernandez returns when expected. (Which is far from a sure thing, of course.) Hernandez, by the way, is scheduled to start the Florida State League opener for the St. Lucie Mets tomorrow.

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 07:53 AM

Another un-mentioned option is Tony Harmless, Jr. Minaya haters need their fuel.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 08:02 AM

Yeah, I thought of him too. I just can't get excited about having somebody else join the Lima/Park/Erickson club. And I suspect that's what we'd get from Armas. (Could be wrong though!)

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 08:08 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Yeah, I thought of him too. I just can't get excited about having somebody else join the Lima/Park/Erickson club. And I suspect that's what we'd get from Armas. (Could be wrong though!) James Baldwin is hurt. Brian Lawrence weeping.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 02 2008 08:15 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't say Pedro faked anything but do think he has -- and the Mets let him get away with -- a cavalier attitude about training. No bus trips. Have a few days off in the DR. Don;t bother with a real game -- throw a simulated one instead. To an extent Pedro's got enough ability to allow him to train however he wishes but the guy has been U-S-E-L-E-S-S since September of 2005. I'm sure he'll be back to make a show of how great he is before his contract expires but when that happens I'll be sure to pat his ass on the way out. Nice job, Petey.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 08:17 AM

He was useful in September of 2007. Although his inability to pitch more frequently led us to that ill-fated Philip Humber start against the mighty Nationals.

Valadius Apr 02 2008 08:20 AM

I agree with some of what soupy's saying. It will likely take longer for Pedro to come back than it would for other players because he's likely to get all whiny about rehab.

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 08:21 AM

He was also useful the first half of 2006, when his first half numbers gave him an All Star spot. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=martipe02&year=2006

Frayed Knot Apr 02 2008 08:23 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 02 2008 08:40 AM

There's a difference between labelling Pedro a diva in the 'these ice cubes in my drink aren't cold enough' kind of vein (an image I could absolutely buy) and suggesting that he deserves to be accused of faking injuries in order to bail on games or refusing to take the ball so as to make himself look better. Up to and including his first year as a Met, Pedro started between 29 and 33 games in 10 of the previous 11 seasons (completing 45, btw, in this nobody pitches past 7 era), pitched over 200 innings in 7 of them, plus threw in the occasional emergency, short-rest, game-saving appearence in the post-season. I don't think that a rep (at least not ON field) of being some kind of responsibility-shriking diva is earned in his case. * I'm Jones-ing for Cleon !!

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 08:26 AM

Valadius wrote: I agree with some of what soupy's saying. It will likely take longer for Pedro to come back than it would for other players because he's likely to get all whiny about rehab. I don't think he'll be reluctant to rehab. I think he's driven and motivated to return. The problem, if there is one, may be his insistence on doing it his way. Players probably do know their own bodies better than the trainers do, but that doesn't mean that their judgment is best.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 02 2008 08:35 AM

AG/DC wrote: He was also useful the first half of 2006, when his first half numbers gave him an All Star spot. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=martipe02&year=2006 A spot he predictably bailed on. My bad for underestimating his contribution to the Mets success.

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 08:38 AM

His 2006 looks a lot like Pedro Astacio's 2002. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=astacpe01&year=2002

G-Fafif Apr 02 2008 08:39 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: ...the guy has been U-S-E-L-E-S-S since September of 2005. Point that Pedro hasn't been the man of steel since then taken (and assessment of his training methods not necessarily disputed at the moment), but the stated time frame seems a little off, literally speaking. First eleven starts of 2006, when the Mets were building their impenetrable lead: 5-1 2.50 ERA 75.2 IP 44 Hits 17 Walks 88 Strikeouts He had six starts that May that resulted in one loss and five no-decisions: PIT 6 IP, 1 ER, 3 H, 1 BB, 9 K (Wagner BS in 9th) PHI 7 IP, 3 ER, 4 H, 2 BB, 10 K (walkoff loss) MIL 7 IP, 4 ER, 4 H, 2 BB, 10 K (walkoff loss) MFY 7 IP, 0 ER, 4 H, 1 BB, 8 K (Wagner coughs up 9th) FLA 7 IP, 2 ER, 5 H, 0 BB, 10 K ARI 8 IP, 0 ER, 5 H, 0 BB, 8 K (Scoreless duel with Webb) If he comes out of that May 8-1, which seems conservative and reasonable all things considered, I think we remember Pedro 2006 and the whole Pedro tenure a little more kindly. The bullpen did not perform up to early '06 standards in any of those games except the last one. Since then, given his various maladies, I'd add that he's been intermittently very useful, though not as useful as he could be were he healthy. Whether his health has been hindered by how hard he is pushed or pushes himself, I could not say. But I would not say he's been useless since 9/05.

Fman99 Apr 02 2008 10:12 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: No way was that injury faked. The SNY camera caught Pedro's leg doing a funny buckle as he delivered that pitch. Intentionally jiggling your knee during a delivery would be reckless; it could cause the fake injury to become a real one instead. I thought the same thing when I saw the replays. Clearly something in his leg gave out.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 02 2008 10:19 AM

Thanks for straightening out the timeline, but I'm going to take issue with the general idea that a starting pitcher for a contending club can be "intermittently very useful" by its very definition. I'd say Pedro isn't actually intermittently useful, but intermittently effective. Intermittentness is not a part of usefulness. And I fear the Mets are doomed to have this demonstrated for them again and again.

G-Fafif Apr 02 2008 11:13 AM

Five effective starts in September 2007 must have some utility to them.

Centerfield Apr 02 2008 11:41 AM

That MRI machine sure is taking a long time.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 11:43 AM

Pedro insisted on operating it himself, which complicates things somewhat.

HahnSolo Apr 02 2008 11:48 AM

He did n't want to take the bus over there, so there bringing the machine to him.

metirish Apr 02 2008 11:52 AM

Dying over here , didn't that hospital hire Pedro's tech?

AG/DC Apr 02 2008 12:00 PM

There should be some award for the first hammy injury of the season.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 12:06 PM

="Marty Noble"]Mets awaiting word on Pedro's status 04/02/2008 12:26 PM ET By Marty Noble / MLB.com MIAMI -- Not until mid-afternoon, at the earliest, will the Mets have a greater sense of the problem they face because of the injury to Pedro Martinez. Even at 11 a.m. ET on Wednesday, the club was uncertain when Martinez's strained left hamstring would be examined by magnetic resonance imaging. And the results of the MRI probably wouldn't become immediately available. That said, the club will know by early afternoon whether it will have an alternative solution for the problem that undermined its championship aspirations before the second game of the season was complete. By 1 p.m., the Mets will know whether Brian Stokes has been claimed off waivers. If he hasn't been, he will become a possible roster replacement for Martinez, though not a likely a replacement for Martinez in the rotation. Jorge Sosa is the most logical rotation replacement at this point, a person familiar with the Mets thinking said Wednesday morning. Nelson Figueroa and Stokes are possible options. Too familiar with the worst-case scenario as it involves Martinez, the Mets weren't even speculating what the maximum time lost might be for the 36-year-old pitcher because of the injury he sustained in the fourth inning of the team's 5-4, 10-inning loss to the Marlins on Tuesday night. But, because of Martinez's age and the fickle nature of hamstring injuries, an assumption existed that the minimum time lost would be four weeks. Orlando Hernandez, assigned to the disabled list through at least April 12, is a less-than-immediate solution and not a particularly sound one either. He is to pitch in a Class A game Thursday. El Duque is still adjusting to the delivery he twice modified in Spring Training -- first to reduce the stress in the bunion on his right foot, then to restore some power to the delivery and velocity to his pitches. Sosa is ideally placed to take Martinez's spot in the rotation immediately, because he replaced the injured starter Tuesday night and pitched 2 2/3 innings. He also pitched in the Opening Day game, tossing merely six pitches. So chances are he will not pitch Wednesday in the final game of the series in Miami, and he can begin to recuperate for a start. Moreover, Sosa is the best pitcher available, a considerably stronger and more competitive pitcher than Figueroa, who is on the roster of the Mets' Triple A New Orleans affiliate, or Stokes, who was in limbo as Wednesday began. The Mets designated him for assignment and sought waivers on him last week when they made their final roster cuts. They had no idea whether Stokes would be claimed, but if he were not, they could retain him and considered assigning him to their big league bullpen to fill the vacancy created if they were to move Sosa to the rotation. The Mets developed some regard for Stokes' fastball-changeup combination and swing-and-miss pitching during Spring Training, though in-game results were not particularly impressive. He passed Rule 5 Draft selection Steve Register on the depth chart. The Mets won't need a starting pitcher until April 12, even though Martinez had been scheduled to pitch Tuesday in the opening home game. Because Oliver Perez is to pitch Wednesday night, one night before an off-day, he will have more than enough rest before the team begins its series against the Phillies.

metsmarathon Apr 02 2008 01:44 PM

="Benjamin Grimm"] ="Marty Noble"]The Mets won't need a starting pitcher until April 12 i suspect that we may need one rather sooner, myself.

metirish Apr 02 2008 02:15 PM

From Newday Blog. ] Figueroa replaces Pedro Nelson Figueroa is the replacement for Pedro Martinez. He's on his way from New Orleans and should be here in about 45 minutes. This was posted at 3:18 ] Pedro just landed in NYC Looks like it could be a while before we get a status report on Pedro Martinez because he's still about a 45-minute cab ride away from an MRI tube. His flight from Miami to NYC just landed minutes ago at JFK. ESPN 1050's Andrew Marchand, who was on the same flight with Martinez, spoke with him aa.jpegearlier today and the pitcher sounded relatively upbeat. He also wasn't limping, which is a good sign. Marchand reported that Martinez said he feels "OK" and was unsure if he would need to go on the disabled list. Martinez is now headed from JFK airport to the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan for the MRI and an evaluation by team orthopedist David Altchek. Martinez was forced to leave Tuesday's game in the fourth inning after clutching the back of his left leg and yelling in pain. The initial diagnosis is a strained left hamstring, and the Mets are waiting for the results of today's MRI before giving a timetable for his return. So he's probably not even had the MRI yet.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 02 2008 02:33 PM

How do you get from New Orleans to Miami in 15 minutes?

HahnSolo Apr 02 2008 03:12 PM

Willie on the FAN right now, says Pedro is probably having the MRI right now. Even without the results yet, anyone up for guessing when we'll next see Pedro pitching for the Mets? I'll set my expectations low and say June 10 against the Diamondbacks at Shea.

metirish Apr 02 2008 04:57 PM

SNY reporting that the results are back and it's a mild strain to his left hammy, placed on the 15 Day DL, out 4 - 6 weeks.

Rockin' Doc Apr 02 2008 05:35 PM

CF - "That MRI machine sure is taking a long time." How hard can it be to find a geriatric specialist in Florida?

soupcan Apr 02 2008 07:16 PM

metirish wrote: SNY reporting that the results are back and it's a mild strain to his left hammy, placed on the 15 Day DL, out 4 - 6 weeks. 'Strain'. Huh. Wonder where the 'pop' Pedro heard came from.

metirish Apr 02 2008 07:18 PM

Well you know that 4 - 6 weeks will be 4 -6 months..lazy fucker.

Valadius Apr 02 2008 07:34 PM

Oh good Christ.

Nymr83 Apr 02 2008 11:39 PM

we knew this was a strong possibility. lets hope el duque can last the 4-6 weeks that it takes pedro to get back.

Triple Dee Apr 03 2008 03:55 AM

I just wonder whose fixer is calling it a "strain" and not a "tear", Pedro's or Omar's?

AG/DC Apr 03 2008 05:51 AM

If it's a tear, his season is over, and no amount of spin will protect them.

Triple Dee Apr 03 2008 06:05 AM

Actually they are the same thing; ] A Hamstring injury is common in sports. Hamstring injuries are sometimes known as a 'pulled Hamstring'. The term 'pulled muscle' comes from the description of how the injury takes place. Usually the Hamstring muscle is forcibly stretched beyond its limits and the muscle tissue becomes torn. A tear in the Hamstring muscle is referred to as a Hamstring strain and depending on its severity it is classified as a first, second or third degree strain. http://www.physioroom.com/injuries/hip_and_thigh/hamstring_strain_sum.php

AG/DC Apr 03 2008 07:09 AM

Well, I guess I sit corrected. I understand that all levels of the injury involve tissue torn to some degree, sports teams seem to describe muscle injuries in gradations of "strain"/"pull"/"tear," don't they?

soupcan Apr 03 2008 07:14 AM

I heard 'mild strain' which tells me that it is not a tear in the way we think of a tear. I conclude that Pedro heard no 'pop' and as a result my original theory (which can be found on page 1 of this thread) gains a bit of credibility - in my mind anyway.

metirish Apr 03 2008 07:19 AM

I don't know Soupcan. Endy said when it happened to him he heard two pops so he felt it was good news that Pedro heard one pop , I couldn't make this stuff up. In conclusion I think that two pops is a tear while one pop is a mild strain.

soupcan Apr 03 2008 07:32 AM

irish - I thought you and I had some kind of bond. The whole Manic Street Preachers thing and all. But you just keep shooting me down on my whiny Pedro theory and I'm not appreciative of that. Either you ignore the facts and accept my distorted view of the sports world or I'm taking 'Kevin Carter' off my published iTunes mix.

metirish Apr 03 2008 07:41 AM

KC will not be happy about that.

Willets Point Apr 03 2008 07:48 AM

I can attest that one can hear/feel popping sounds in one's body without actually tearing muscles. It happened once when I sprained my ankle and I believe it's common when numerous types of injuries occur.

soupcan Apr 03 2008 07:49 AM

Enough with the evidence. My theory sells papers!

Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2008 07:49 AM

Trainers should wire each player with microphones so that, if a pop occurs, they can play back the pop to help them in their evaluation. And then the pops can be available for downloading from iTunes so that the fans can weigh in as well.

Valadius Apr 03 2008 07:50 AM

I hear pops all the time in my right elbow.

metirish Apr 03 2008 07:51 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 03 2008 08:13 AM

Valadius wrote: I hear pops all the time in my right elbow. Easy to fix that Val, stop choking the turkey so much.

AG/DC Apr 03 2008 07:52 AM

You ever sit next to Valadius at a game? It's a like sitting next to fucking popcorn machine. Makes me sick just thinking about it.

soupcan Apr 03 2008 07:53 AM

Only if you sit on his right side though. Left side - perfectly quiet.

Valadius Apr 03 2008 07:54 AM

Well I did have a bone spur in my elbow that bothered me about a year ago.

Centerfield Apr 03 2008 08:17 AM

I think all posts on Val's elbow should be split into its own thread. I can live with 4-6 weeks on Pedro if that's how long it will actually take.

themetfairy Apr 03 2008 08:34 AM

Here's all you need to know. A strain - A tear -

Triple Dee Apr 03 2008 09:58 AM

That's my favorite cereal, which unfortunately is no longer available here.

sharpie Apr 03 2008 10:09 AM

Corn Pops used to be known as Sugar Pops. Just as Honey Smacks was known as Sugar Smacks.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 03 2008 10:36 AM

Corn Pops and Sugar Smacks also had a number of different cartoon spokesmen over the years. Pops was a skunk at one time, I think, then a cowboy. Smacks had the frog, but also a bear and an Indian.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 03 2008 10:44 AM

I remember the cowboy, but a skunk? That couldn't have been a good idea, could it?

metirish Apr 03 2008 10:48 AM

I've never eaten them although I have a small box in my office drawer . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Pops Numerous ad-campaigns used John Williams' theme from Jaws. For many years the mascot for the cereal was "Sugar Pops Pete", a furry critter dressed as a cowboy with two "six-shooters" with red and white spiral-striped barrels. In the early 1980s, "Poppy" a female porcupine represented the cereal. Poppy carried around a yellow suitcase which contained a complete breakfast setting, meeting the by then industry standard "part of a complete breakfast" tagline.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 03 2008 10:56 AM

Actually it was a porcupine.

Centerfield Apr 03 2008 11:46 AM

No joke, when I was a kid, I asked my dad to buy me Pops, even describing the box and everything. He came home with:

Valadius Apr 03 2008 11:52 AM

Kaboom? WTF?

Rockin' Doc Apr 03 2008 07:13 PM

Personally, I just can't seem to get enough

Valadius Apr 03 2008 09:10 PM

I think we have a new homer graphic.

DocTee Apr 03 2008 09:13 PM

New? Where you been?

Frayed Knot Apr 03 2008 09:14 PM

KABOOM cereal and that evil looking clown was the original HR graphic. It gave birth to all the subsequent KABOOMs

Valadius Apr 03 2008 09:17 PM

Hey, I only got here in '05. I've never seen it before.

themetfairy May 04 2008 08:37 PM

[url=http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080504&content_id=2640702&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym]He's almost ready to throw to batters in his rehab work[/url].