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No Need to Embellish, Kid

G-Fafif Apr 17 2008 11:28 AM

Looking into Gary Carter's new book, the promotional copy raised as many eyebrows as I have available: As a catcher, Gary "the Kid" Carter's quiet, focused nature kept him out of the glare of the media's spotlight. In "Still a Kid at Heart," Carter expresses some of his greatest memories and achievements including becoming the first player to be called out at Shea Stadium for a curtain call... The first one is plain amusing. He may not have been in the papers for the same infamous reasons several of his high-profile teammates were (Cooters, Smithers, Pittsburgh drug trial), but they called him Camera (and Kid) for a reason and it wasn't because of his quiet, focused nature. The second one is simply inaccurate. The curtain call may have been perfected by Gary Carter and may have taken on a life of its own once he came here, but I can remember several pre-Kid episodes of bows demanded and given, clear back to Steve Henderson in 1980. Keith Hernandez wrote about how he didn't want to do it when he came over in '83 in "If At First" but was told by Rusty that the fans expect you to do it here. I can even remember Charlie Puleo being called out for a competent start (and whoever covered it for Newsday, probably Noble, expressing amazement that 7-2/3 innings of three-run ball rated such a reaction, even with a big Met lead). One assumes this is the work of overanxious PR interns and copywriters, though one also assumes it's gleaned from the book itself. Gary Carter was pretty darn awesome back in the day. He doesn't need to be made incrementally more darn awesome. Anybody who spent an evening with him at a bookstore in New Jersey who cares to shed light on the Kid's quiet, focused nature, please do.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 17 2008 11:39 AM

I don't definitively remember any curtain calls prior to 1985, but if you do, G-Fafif, then I believe you. If anything, it certainly became a lot more commonplace by 1985, so if Gary Carter thinks that the first curtain call came after his Opening Day homer that year, that I can understand and forgive his misconception. But that business about "quiet" and "out of the spotlight" is just plain nuts. I think it's very unlikely that I'll be reading this book.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2008 12:01 PM Re: No Need to Embellish, Kid Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 17 2008 01:41 PM

G-Fafif wrote: The second one is simply inaccurate. The curtain call may have been perfected by Gary Carter and may have taken on a life of its own once he came here, but I can remember several pre-Kid episodes of bows demanded and given, clear back to Steve Henderson in 1980. Keith Hernandez wrote about how he didn't want to do it when he came over in '83 in "If At First" but was told by Rusty that the fans expect you to do it here. I can even remember Charlie Puleo being called out for a competent start (and whoever covered it for Newsday, probably Noble, expressing amazement that 7-2/3 innings of three-run ball rated such a reaction, even with a big Met lead). I personally remember curtain calls for Steve Henderson as well. Also, I provided a link to many New York Times articles blurbs referencing the following search terms: "Mets", "1984" and "curtain calls". As someone else around here sort of likes to say: "Carter misremembers". I 'm also positive that I have video of pre-Carter Met curtain calls - irrefutable video proof debunking Carter's just plain wrong claims. http://tinyurl.com/59otbz

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2008 12:03 PM

Now if I could just figure out how to post a URL without stretching the web page beyond what should be tolerable!

Fman99 Apr 17 2008 12:25 PM

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Now if I could just figure out how to post a URL without stretching the web page beyond what should be tolerable! It's called http://tinyurl.com.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 17 2008 12:38 PM

Actually, you just need to post your URL within HTML tags. Article

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 17 2008 12:39 PM

That's nice sluething. I don't know about all yous but I generally have low expectations of jock-penned books withstanding any kind of historical or factual scrutiny. And I'm sure the publisher and their publicity people understand that staid factual press releases don;lt move books and so you expect a little fluffing from them. As I said in the other thread in my 30 seconds of interactions with Gary Carter, and 2 hours of competing for his business, he's a really nice total success. He did look pretty focused and quiet while signing books I'll say.

G-Fafif Apr 17 2008 01:07 PM

Kid's first book, "A Dream Season," featured a passage in which he reveled in the Mets' closeness, with the caveat that just because guys like he and Ray Knight hugged so much is no reason to assume that made either of them any less of a man. That was ghosted by John Hough, who wrote a marvelous book about covering the Red Sox the following year, a lifelong fan with a press pass and clubhouse access. Of note here is that because he was working on the Carter book during the previous World Series, he said aloud, with two outs in the tenth of Game Six, his beloved Red Sox thisclose to clinching their first world championship since 1918, that he hoped his buddy Gary wouldn't make the final out, he's such a nice guy. As soon as the words escaped his lips, he realized he had made the worst mistake of his life.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2008 01:52 PM

I took care of a little housecleaning by shortening the length of my link with "tinyurl". Thanks fman99. I also reviewed video from a 1984 Mets game where George Foster homers and then takes a curtain call: The video portion is inconclusive because the Foster curtain call mostly occurs during the replay of his Home Run. By the time the video switches back to live action, Foster has already returned to the dugout. It appears that Foster is possibly captured on his way back to the dugout, descending the steps to the dugout, as opposed to being fully inside of the dugout, but this is not entirely clear either because the shot of Foster is somewhat tight. Still, Foster is the only Met facing the back of the dugout. All the other Mets have their backs to the back of the dugout and are facing the field. The good news is that the corresponding audio constitutes documented proof that Foster engaged in a curtain call. During the HR replay, the announcers inform the viewers that Foster is stepping out of the dugout for what they describe as a "curtain call", and that Foster did so only because the Shea fans kept on chanting for the curtain call. By the way, there is nothing in the tone of the announcers voices to suggest that the curtain call is some novelty, or some never before seen thing. It's all announced in a matter of fact, been there done that sort of way, with the usual excitement that is mostly for the three run homer. I wouldn't be surprised if this Carter claim is eventually explained away as some honest mistake where Carter meant to say "first curtain call of 1985" instead of first curtain call ever. And why would someone brag about that for?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 17 2008 02:04 PM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: That's nice sluething. Thanks. BTW, your side-splitting "Ron Hodges Day" article just might be my all-time favorite MBTN read.

AG/DC Apr 17 2008 02:29 PM

Steve Henderson, unless I'm grossly misremembering, had already hit the clubhouse, shed his jersey and maybe his shoes by the time he returned for the CC. It probably wasn't the first for a Met, but there clearly wasn't any culture to it then and he seemed taken aback.

AG/DC Apr 17 2008 05:15 PM

The other thing about that game that sticks in the jasmine of mind is that the umpires participated in clapping for the curtain call --- a breach of impartiality that, even though the game was over, would be unthinkable today. It probably should have been unthinkable then, but the Mets were so lowly that it would have been miserly not to put aside ettiquette in the face of such an unlikely moment.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 26 2008 05:49 PM

I know that this topic's been beaten to death here, but I just came across a Keith Hernandez interview where he talks about his first months as a Met in 1983 and discusses the bad Mets and the Shea home crowds that barely exceeded 3,000. Keith mentions how at the beginning of his Met tenure and after getting key hits at Shea, he didn't realize that the home fans were insisting that Keith take a curtain call, and how it was Rusty Staub that explained it to Keith what it was that the fans wanted. Keith couldn't understand how a team so bad playing in front of so few fans would take curtain calls. Keith nevertheless obliged the fans.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 30 2008 11:02 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't know about all yous but I generally have low expectations of jock-penned books withstanding any kind of historical or factual scrutiny. And I'm sure the publisher and their publicity people understand that staid factual press releases don;lt move books and so you expect a little fluffing from them. Gary Carter strikes me as the kind of guy that would read the manuscript of his own book 45 times before it went out for publishing.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 30 2008 09:44 PM

AG/DC wrote: Steve Henderson, unless I'm grossly misremembering, had already hit the clubhouse, shed his jersey and maybe his shoes by the time he returned for the CC. It's funny how I missed this message even though I read this thread a few times, having already written a few posts here, myself. Henderson was in full uniform when he came out for that Curtain Call. It was a rare call in a number of ways: There was an unusually longer gap in time between Hendu initially entering the dugout right after his HR and then reemerging for his CC. Henderson as well as the rest of the Mets were all in the clubhouse, as you remember, before Hendu finally realized what to do. Of course, there was no recent precedent at Shea for curtain calling and so Hendu's innocence was excusable, and probably preferable. When Hendu did come out, he walked out about 15 or 20 feet away from the dugout, closer to the infield foul line than the dugout, before turning around to acknowledge the excited fans. In a typical CC, the player will sort of straddle the dugout and the field itself, half in and half out. For that brief moment, Henderson was more rock star than baseball player in what was surely the most magical game of the manager Torre era. Oddly enough, Hendu was almost completely surrounded by a few field box ushers during the CC; their job was to step out onto the foul territory at the end of the game. And Gary, if you're reading this thread: that was 1980.

AG/DC Apr 30 2008 10:15 PM

Mets down 6-2: METS 9TH: Maddox grounded out (shortstop to first); On a bunt Flynn singled to second; Cardenal grounded out (shortstop to first) [Flynn to second]; Mazzilli singled to center [Flynn scored]; Taveras walked [Mazzilli to second]; Washington singled to center [Mazzilli scored, Taveras to second]; RIPLEY REPLACED MINTON (PITCHING); Henderson homered [Taveras scored, Washington scored]; 5 R, 4 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Giants 6, Mets 7. Oddly enough it wasn't Hendu's last walkoff of the year.

batmagadanleadoff May 01 2008 08:07 PM

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