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Gary Carter. A little bit of Sour Grapes?

batmagadanleadoff Apr 19 2008 12:50 PM

HEARTBREAK KID CARTER UPSET OVER 'STRAIN' WITH METS By HOWARD KUSSOY April 18, 2008 -- Despite a career that was mostly spent with the Montreal Expos, former catcher Gary Carter considers himself a Met and wanted to go into the Hall of Fame as one. And his allegiance to the franchise is why he finds himself bewildered and disappointed that he is no longer working with the team that provided his only championship. Carter, who was at the 46th Street Barnes & Noble yesterday signing copies of his new book "Still a Kid at Heart: My Life in Baseball and Beyond," served as a roving catching instructor for the Mets New York Mets for four years before managing the Gulf Coast Mets in 2005. He also led the Single-A St. Lucie Mets to a championship in 2006. In December 2006, Carter was offered the managing position for the Double-A Binghamton Mets, but Carter declined, citing an ultimatum to decide before the holidays and the belief that his advancement through the system might be halted. Carter asked, "Are you grooming me to possibly be the future manager of this organization? I also said, 'If I go there, does that mean I manage Triple-A next year? Do I continue to move up?' " Without receiving any concrete answers, Carter listed other options to remain with the organization. "I said let me go to New Orleans (the Mets' Triple-A affiliate) and be the hitting coach," Carter said. "I don't even have to be the manager. It'll diversify my opportunities at the major league level because ultimately that's where you want to be. They said no to that. Port St. Lucie? No. Roving? No. My only option was to go to Binghamton. They never gave me a reason why." Carter said his relationship with the Mets is currently "a bit strained," but he doesn't carry any animosity, only confusion. Despite his desire to remain in the organization, Carter felt he needed to search for other coaching opportunities. He interviewed for the Dodgers' Triple-A managing position and was a candidate to become the hitting coach for the Rockies, but ultimately did not receive either job. Carter said he called Mets general manager Omar Minaya in November to discuss the team's opening at first base coach and was perplexed that Rickey Henderson, a Met of less than two years, who was never known as the consummate teammate, was given the job last summer. "I don't know what their thinking was," Carter said. "I'm sitting at home dying to come in and wanting to be a part of it, but I was never called. It's disappointing because I feel disenfranchised." After taking 2007 off, Carter will manage the Orange County Flyers of the Golden Baseball League in California this summer. "I hope to revitalize my opportunity to manage someday at the major league level," Carter said. "That's where my heart's desire is." http://tinyurl.com/4u5try ************* Note: A large portion of the highlighted text above is the author's words, and not a direct quote from Carter. FWIW.

metirish Apr 20 2008 07:17 AM

Perhaps Carter should have taken the Binghamton Mets job, never know where that would have led.

TheOldMole Apr 20 2008 08:13 AM

I hope they work it out, and I'd like to see the Kid in HOF as a Met.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2008 08:18 AM

Well, it's too late for that, of course. His plaque already has an Expos cap.

metirish Apr 20 2008 08:18 AM

Carter went in as an Expo in 2003. http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=112061

batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2008 09:11 AM Re: Gary Carter. A little bit of Sour Grapes?

"Despite a career that was mostly spent with the Montreal Expos, former catcher Gary Carter considers himself a Met and wanted to go into the Hall of Fame as one." Plus, Carter knows that it's gonna be even harder for him to manage the Expos than to manage the Mets.

Willets Point Apr 20 2008 09:59 AM

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, it's too late for that, of course. His plaque already has an Expos cap. Nothing a Sharpie can't fix.

AG/DC Apr 20 2008 10:45 AM

Carter's being disingenuous at many levels. They certainly didn't owe him the first base coaching job after he told them to stick the managing job at Bingo. The Bingo job was an honorable offer, and he declined it --- he's not saying this now but he did then --- because he wasn't up for the long bus rides. That's a perfectly valid answer, but they don't owe him his pick of jobs, and they certainly don't owe him anything like a timetable for when he'd get to manage the Mets. That's a professional insult to Willie Randolph.

Rockin' Doc Apr 20 2008 11:00 AM

Willets - "Nothing a Sharpie can't fix." I never knew sharpie had that kind of pull.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 20 2008 11:28 AM

AG/DC wrote: Carter's being disingenuous at many levels. They certainly didn't owe him .... " AG: In my book, you hit a grand slam with this post of yours. I can't begin to tell you how much this Carter article bothers me on so many levels (and I'm talking about levels that go against Carter, not the Mets or Rickey or anybody else). If I started to write a post about this, it would be a long one, and I don't have the time right this moment. But maybe later tonight, while the Mets game is on, I'll write a few words on this.

HahnSolo Apr 20 2008 01:05 PM

AG/DC wrote: Carter's being disingenuous at many levels. They certainly didn't owe him the first base coaching job after he told them to stick the managing job at Bingo. The Bingo job was an honorable offer, and he declined it --- he's not saying this now but he did then --- because he wasn't up for the long bus rides. That's a perfectly valid answer, but they don't owe him his pick of jobs, and they certainly don't owe him anything like a timetable for when he'd get to manage the Mets. That's a professional insult to Willie Randolph. There was also a rumor that I think had some merit that Carter, rather than go to AA Binghamton preferred to stay in the FSL for tax purposes.

KC Apr 20 2008 02:11 PM

bml: >>>If I started to write a post about this, it would be a long one, and I don't have the time right this moment<<< You started a thread about it, it will be here when you have time. Now that you've whetted our curiosity I hope that it's not about him not signing something for you twenty years ago or your wife knows the girl who used to give Gary his perm, or whatever. When I read this, my first reaction was also, "you said you didn't wanna ride the bus so why ya moaning when you ain't where the bus mighta taken ya."

MFS62 Apr 20 2008 02:35 PM

He would have taken the job if the Mets had moved the team to Rochester - the home of Kodak. Later

G-Fafif Apr 20 2008 03:32 PM

MFS62 wrote: He would have taken the job if the Mets had moved the team to Rochester - the home of Kodak. Sometimes I just sit and stare in awe. This is one of those times.

Batty31 Apr 20 2008 09:17 PM

AG/DC wrote: Carter's being disingenuous at many levels. They certainly didn't owe him the first base coaching job after he told them to stick the managing job at Bingo. The Bingo job was an honorable offer, and he declined it --- he's not saying this now but he did then --- because he wasn't up for the long bus rides. That's a perfectly valid answer, but they don't owe him his pick of jobs, and they certainly don't owe him anything like a timetable for when he'd get to manage the Mets. That's a professional insult to Willie Randolph. I heard Joe & Evan interview him Thursday on WFAN. He was supposed to be plugging his book, but instead he spent most of this time whining about this same issue. He said he would not take the Bingo job without some indication from the Mets would be grooming him to fill the manager position. Joe & Evan tried to point out to him that the orginazation would never do that because like Edgy said, it would be an insult to Willie. Gary didn't see it that way and stood firm on his argument.

Triple Dee Apr 21 2008 06:11 AM Re: Gary Carter. A little bit of Sour Grapes?

="batmagadanleadoff"]"Despite a career that was mostly spent with the Montreal Expos, former catcher Gary Carter considers himself a Met and wanted to go into the Hall of Fame as one." Plus, Carter knows that it's gonna be even harder for him to manage the Expos than to manage the Mets. Batmag, in my book, you hit a weak grounder back to the mound, with this post of yours. The suggestion that Carter wanted to go into the Hall as a Met, for the purpose of enhancing his post-career employment opportunities is incredulous.

AG/DC Apr 21 2008 06:40 AM

I don't think a notion can be incredulous. I think it's a viable position.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 21 2008 06:49 AM Re: Gary Carter. A little bit of Sour Grapes?

Triple Dee wrote: The suggestion that Carter wanted to go into the Hall as a Met, for the purpose of enhancing his post-career employment opportunities is incredulous. I need some slack for someone to cut me some of. That was a joke. Because the Expos don't exist. So he could never get to manage them anymore. Get it? Because some former teammates of his think he's very calculating and all. I still didn't forget to write about that Carter article. And who's that cool rookie on the top of this whole forum? Looks a little bit like Bruce Springsteen in a Met helmet if Springsteen was skinnier.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 21 2008 07:02 AM

MFS62 wrote: He would have taken the job if the Mets had moved the team to Rochester - the home of Kodak. Fozzie Bear, ladies and gentlemen.

Triple Dee Apr 21 2008 07:14 AM

AG/DC wrote: I don't think a notion can be incredulous.. Why can't a notion be difficult to believe? AG/DC wrote: I think it's a viable position. Well, call me naive, but I always believed he had a genuine affinty for club. If he wasn't such an integral part of the ballclub's success while he was there, I may have thought otherwise. Further, I don't think the Mets organization views the fact he went into the Hall as an Expo, as tarnishing his legacy as a Met, as is demonstrated by the fact they have not reissued his jersey.

Triple Dee Apr 21 2008 07:23 AM Re: Gary Carter. A little bit of Sour Grapes?

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I need some slack for someone to cut me some of. That was a joke. Because the Expos don't exist. So he could never get to manage them anymore. Get it? No, I don't because Carter initially made that statement before his induction, while the Expos were still around.

AG/DC Apr 21 2008 07:47 AM Edited 2 time(s), most recently on Apr 21 2008 08:17 AM

People are incredulous. Notions are incredible. And the Expos were sadly doomed by the time of Carter's election. Your belief is fine, but the other position has support also. I certainly don't think his legacy is tarnished, and I imagine the Mets don't. But it's pretty much an established fact that the bigger the market you're affiliated with, the better your post-career business opportunitties are. Any underlining of the larger association has a dollar value. It's a question of leverage. In a negotiation, it's easier for the Mets to tell, say, Mako Oliveros to get lost than to say the same to Mookie Wilson, because of the history and fan attachment and brand association that Wilson has on his side. Carter seems wiley enough to know how much juice a Hall of Fame plaque is worth to him. Carter to me is like Tom Grunick in Broadcast News or Charles Van Doren in Quiz Show. I want to still like him, even though I'm aware of how he's cynically exploiting his likeability. Wtih those characters, it got to the point where they came to loathe themselves even as everybody loved them, and they almost wanted to get caught and called out as phonies. Bill Clinton often seemed like that as well (qaand he was real). How can he honestly say that the Mets owed him some sort of timetable as to where he was going with his career? How can he honestly say that such a commitment wouldn't undercut the curretnt manager? He's golly-gee Gary Carter, that's how. Almost every other borderline Hall of Fame candidate, when asked about their chances, would say, "Well, if I make it, that would be great; if not, well, I'm proud of my career, and that certainly won't change." Gary would openly speculate about when he's getting in, and this guy got in, so that should help me, and, gee, it would really mean a lot to get in while my father is alive. Do you recall that he acually had a party planned to celebrate his election the year before he was elected, so sure that the momentum was on his side and this was his year? Poor Sandy had to scramble to cancel everything. The Mets ran away with the division in 1986, and Gary Carter couldn't stop talking about, gosh, if I only had ten more points on my batting average, I'd be the MVP. I like the guy. But his ambition would be a lot more palateable if I wasn't asked to pretend I don't see it.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 21 2008 07:59 AM Re: Gary Carter. A little bit of Sour Grapes?

Triple Dee wrote: No, I don't because Carter initially made that statement before his induction, while the Expos were still around. Well I didn't know that and the article that started this thread never explained that either. I thought it was a fresh quote. But it wouldn't matter anyway because by the time Carter was in a position to talk about which cap he'd like to have on his HOF plaque, everybody knew that the Expos were done as a franchise. Even Carter.

Triple Dee Apr 21 2008 09:48 AM

Well, I respectfully disagree on the use of "incredulous" but why are we arguing over the use of words? My feeling is that Carter gets a bad rep because of his "showman" persona at time he was in NY which has been source of prejudice against him. But I get this impression, only from the what I have read. Also, Carter was elected to the Hall in Jan 2003, and made the statement shortly afterwards. The fate of the Expos was far from sealed at that time, although it wasn't looking particularly promising.

AG/DC Apr 21 2008 10:09 AM

Well, as it's been 23 years since he came to the Mets, we've all had ample time to draw conclusions without prejudice.

batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2008 09:26 PM

KC wrote: Now that you've whetted our curiosity I hope that it's not about him not signing something for you twenty years ago or your wife knows the girl who used to give Gary his perm, or whatever. Whaddya, know me or something? As a matter of fact, I was good friends with the girl that used to give Gary his perm. The bastard would insist on paying her by the hair instead of by the job. He'd show up at the shop with his effin hair count, which he generated with the same fastidious accuracy that he would famously apply to the preparation of his tax returns. His tax returns were even honester than Felix Unger's. I'll give him that. And his hair count was always perfect, too. He was never off. Not even by a hair. And that was that. He'd pay by the hair. Of course he'd have less and less hair on the top of his head with each ensuing visit on account of him losing his hair and all, so she'd make less and less money on the next perm even though she was doing the same job. And when you accounted for inflation and the price of a movie ticket or that gooey gloopy stuff that she needed to do Carter's perm going up every coupl'a months, she was probably making even less money on him all the time. It got to the point where it was as if she was paying him to do his perm. That was his freakin' scam: less hair, less money. And plus on top of that, he used to force her to tell him all the time how he shoulda won the '86 MVP instead of Schmidt even though Schmidt had a better season and Carter probably wasn't even the best Met in 1986. Or the second best. He even had a script for her to read. He was kinky and all, even kinkier than the hairs that he was getting permed. '"You're the best, Gary". You're better than all of them. The best there ever was. Better than Schmidt. And Johnny Bench. Why they shoulda put you in the Hall of Fame right after the '86 season ended. And give you two plaques. One for the Mets and another for the Expos." she would have to tell him. She also hadda tell him that he had a better head of hair than Schmidt. And Hernandez. Definitely Hernandez. What a sicko!