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The See of Peter

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 08:17 AM

So I went to see Benedict yesterday. I won't bore you with much, but the first page and a half of the program listed the line of popes the Vatican traces back to Peter, and that provides for some historical fun that anybody can apprecaiate. Below is the list from a different source. Some things worth noting: The third pope was Pope Cletus: it wasn't always a hilbilly name. The seventh pope was Pope Sixtus. That's just wrong. Notice also that the last Sixtus was Sixtus V. Nobody wanted the giggle inducing name of Sixtus Six. How much of a beast must Liberius have been, being the only pope from practically the first five centuries to not be canonized? (Or altnernately, perhaps he was a true lionheart in an age of beasts.) It's not like he had a brief reign, as he was around for 14 years. He appears to have had a typically intrigue filled reign and apparently died in exile. In contrast there's only like two saints from the last 500 years. Check out ten popes down from him --- St. Hilarius. That must have been the funnest papacy ever. And his successor was St. Simplicius. Was he the straight man? At the top of column 2 is Stephen II. He got the job and died before being consecrated. Of all the luck. Benedict IX: twice removed, twice restored. Take a hint, man. Two guys get the honorific "the Great:" Gregory I, from whom we get Gregorian Chant and the Gregorian Calendar, and Leo I, famous for being a doctriarian and for talking Attila out of sacking Rome by (dependeing on which tale you like): moving Attila with a rational and moral plea bribing Attila with amazing sums of gold shocking and awing Attila with his size, bearing, adornments, and a sword of fame that only Attila could see Recent history is fixing the honorific John Paul II (a "John Paul the Great" high school is opeing in the DC burbs next year), And that's a tough act to follow. St. Peter (32-67) St. Linus (67-76) St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) St. Clement I (88-97) St. Evaristus (97-105) St. Alexander I (105-115) St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I St. Telesphorus (125-136) St. Hyginus (136-140) St. Pius I (140-155) St. Anicetus (155-166) St. Soter (166-175) St. Eleutherius (175-189) St. Victor I (189-199) St. Zephyrinus (199-217) St. Callistus I (217-22) St. Urban I (222-30) St. Pontain (230-35) St. Anterus (235-36) St. Fabian (236-50) St. Cornelius (251-53) St. Lucius I (253-54) St. Stephen I (254-257) St. Sixtus II (257-258) St. Dionysius (260-268) St. Felix I (269-274) St. Eutychian (275-283) St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius St. Marcellinus (296-304) St. Marcellus I (308-309) St. Eusebius (309 or 310) St. Miltiades (311-14) St. Sylvester I (314-35) St. Marcus (336) St. Julius I (337-52) Liberius (352-66) St. Damasus I (366-83) St. Siricius (384-99) St. Anastasius I (399-401) St. Innocent I (401-17) St. Zosimus (417-18) St. Boniface I (418-22) St. Celestine I (422-32) St. Sixtus III (432-40) St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61) St. Hilarius (461-68) St. Simplicius (468-83) St. Felix III (II) (483-92) St. Gelasius I (492-96) Anastasius II (496-98) St. Symmachus (498-514) St. Hormisdas (514-23) St. John I (523-26) St. Felix IV (III) (526-30) Boniface II (530-32) John II (533-35) St. Agapetus I (535-36) -- also called Agapitus I St. Silverius (536-37) Vigilius (537-55) Pelagius I (556-61) John III (561-74) Benedict I (575-79) Pelagius II (579-90) St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604) Sabinian (604-606) Boniface III (607) St. Boniface IV (608-15) St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18) Boniface V (619-25) Honorius I (625-38) Severinus (640) John IV (640-42) Theodore I (642-49) St. Martin I (649-55) St. Eugene I (655-57) St. Vitalian (657-72) Adeodatus (II) (672-76) Donus (676-78) St. Agatho (678-81) St. Leo II (682-83) St. Benedict II (684-85) John V (685-86) Conon (686-87) St. Sergius I (687-701) John VI (701-05) John VII (705-07) Sisinnius (708) Constantine (708-15) St. Gregory II (715-31) St. Gregory III (731-41) St. Zachary (741-52) Stephen II (752) -- Because he died before being consecrated, some lists (including the Vatican's official list) omit him. Stephen III (752-57) St. Paul I (757-67) Stephen IV (767-72) Adrian I (772-95) St. Leo III (795-816) Stephen V (816-17) St. Paschal I (817-24) Eugene II (824-27) Valentine (827) Gregory IV (827-44) Sergius II (844-47) St. Leo IV (847-55) Benedict III (855-58) St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67) Adrian II (867-72) John VIII (872-82) Marinus I (882-84) St. Adrian III (884-85) Stephen VI (885-91) Formosus (891-96) Boniface VI (896) Stephen VII (896-97) Romanus (897) Theodore II (897) John IX (898-900) Benedict IV (900-03) Leo V (903) Sergius III (904-11) Anastasius III (911-13) Lando (913-14) John X (914-28) Leo VI (928) Stephen VIII (929-31) John XI (931-35) Leo VII (936-39) Stephen IX (939-42) Marinus II (942-46) Agapetus II (946-55) John XII (955-63) Leo VIII (963-64) Benedict V (964) John XIII (965-72) Benedict VI (973-74) Benedict VII (974-83) John XIV (983-84) John XV (985-96) Gregory V (996-99) Sylvester II (999-1003) John XVII (1003) John XVIII (1003-09) Sergius IV (1009-12) Benedict VIII (1012-24) John XIX (1024-32) Benedict IX (1032-45) Benedict IX appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice removed and restored (see below) Sylvester III (1045) -- Considered by some to be an antipope Benedict IX (1045) Gregory VI (1045-46) Clement II (1046-47) Benedict IX (1047-48) Damasus II (1048) St. Leo IX (1049-54) Victor II (1055-57) Stephen X (1057-58) Nicholas II (1058-61) Alexander II (1061-73) St. Gregory VII (1073-85) Blessed Victor III (1086-87) Blessed Urban II (1088-99) Paschal II (1099-1118) Gelasius II (1118-19) Callistus II (1119-24) Honorius II (1124-30) Innocent II (1130-43) Celestine II (1143-44) Lucius II (1144-45) Blessed Eugene III (1145-53) Anastasius IV (1153-54) Adrian IV (1154-59) Alexander III (1159-81) Lucius III (1181-85) Urban III (1185-87) Gregory VIII (1187) Clement III (1187-91) Celestine III (1191-98) Innocent III (1198-1216) Honorius III (1216-27) Gregory IX (1227-41) Celestine IV (1241) Innocent IV (1243-54) Alexander IV (1254-61) Urban IV (1261-64) Clement IV (1265-68) Blessed Gregory X (1271-76) Blessed Innocent V (1276) Adrian V (1276) John XXI (1276-77) Nicholas III (1277-80) Martin IV (1281-85) Honorius IV (1285-87) Nicholas IV (1288-92) St. Celestine V (1294) Boniface VIII (1294-1303) Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04) Clement V (1305-14) John XXII (1316-34) Benedict XII (1334-42) Clement VI (1342-52) Innocent VI (1352-62) Blessed Urban V (1362-70) Gregory XI (1370-78) Urban VI (1378-89) Boniface IX (1389-1404) Innocent VII (1404-06) Gregory XII (1406-15) Martin V (1417-31) Eugene IV (1431-47) Nicholas V (1447-55) Callistus III (1455-58) Pius II (1458-64) Paul II (1464-71) Sixtus IV (1471-84) Innocent VIII (1484-92) Alexander VI (1492-1503) Pius III (1503) Julius II (1503-13) Leo X (1513-21) Adrian VI (1522-23) Clement VII (1523-34) Paul III (1534-49) Julius III (1550-55) Marcellus II (1555) Paul IV (1555-59) Pius IV (1559-65) St. Pius V (1566-72) Gregory XIII (1572-85) Sixtus V (1585-90) Urban VII (1590) Gregory XIV (1590-91) Innocent IX (1591) Clement VIII (1592-1605) Leo XI (1605) Paul V (1605-21) Gregory XV (1621-23) Urban VIII (1623-44) Innocent X (1644-55) Alexander VII (1655-67) Clement IX (1667-69) Clement X (1670-76) Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89) Alexander VIII (1689-91) Innocent XII (1691-1700) Clement XI (1700-21) Innocent XIII (1721-24) Benedict XIII (1724-30) Clement XII (1730-40) Benedict XIV (1740-58) Clement XIII (1758-69) Clement XIV (1769-74) Pius VI (1775-99) Pius VII (1800-23) Leo XII (1823-29) Pius VIII (1829-30) Gregory XVI (1831-46) Blessed Pius IX (1846-78) Leo XIII (1878-1903) St. Pius X (1903-14) Benedict XV (1914-22) Pius XI (1922-39) Pius XII (1939-58) Blessed John XXIII (1958-63) Paul VI (1963-78) John Paul I (1978) John Paul II (1978-2005) Benedict XVI (2005—)

Benjamin Grimm Apr 18 2008 08:22 AM

I heard someone being interviewed on NPR yesterday referring to the previous pope several times as "John Paul the Great." (He wasn't a professional commentator, more of a man on the street.) I guess Benedict IX is the Grover Cleveland (or is that the Grover Cleveland Alexander) of popes. Does "Blessed" (as in John XXIII) mean he's been beatified and on the way to sainthood?

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 08:26 AM

A step on the road to sainthood is how it's oft described, but that kind of sells it short. Better to think of it as a great honor in itself and maybe the last one your guy ever gets. See folks like "Blessed Victor III (1086-87)." I'm going to guess that the movement to canonize him is currently stalled.

John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 18 2008 08:28 AM

John Paul I was pretty good, as I recall. They'd barely extinguished the fire in the holy smokestack before they had to start it up again. with all due respect and everything.

metirish Apr 18 2008 08:29 AM

I know I read this before but I have forgotten , who chooses the name The Pope will go by and should we read anything into what name is chosen?

Benjamin Grimm Apr 18 2008 08:30 AM

AG/DC wrote: I'm going to guess that the movement to canonize him is currently stalled. He'll get another shot once they restructure the Veteran's Committee. I suggest they stock it with former popes, but I believe that all of them are dead at the present time.

soupcan Apr 18 2008 08:43 AM

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: John Paul I was pretty good, as I recall. They'd barely extinguished the fire in the holy smokestack before they had to start it up again. with all due respect and everything. I think he was only in there for like 30 days. Don't they check these guys out before they prop 'em up there? Ditto Johnny's 'all due respect...'

RealityChuck Apr 18 2008 08:44 AM

For some reason, I still remember the footnote on this list from the Information Please Almanac: ]If the triple removal of Benedict IX was not valid, Sylvester III, Gregory VI, and Clement II were antipopes. I always wondered why the Vatican hadn't figured if it was valid or not. You'd think after nearly 1000 years, there wouldn't be an "if." It's not like any of the descendants might complain. Also, are antipopes like antimatter? If they meet the pope, is there an explosion?

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 08:50 AM

metirish wrote: I know I read this before but I have forgotten , who chooses the name The Pope will go by and should we read anything into what name is chosen? Tradition says that after he gets the news that the conclave has chosen him (or, in theory, her), he goes to the altar, prays for a time, arises and announces to his brethren whether he'll accept (he will, of course, or else he would've pulled out during the initieal ballot), and announces which name he will take. It'd be funny if he didn't have his history down. "Call me Julius III." "Your Holiness, or Eminence, there's already three Julii. You'd be the fourth." "Whatever." Presumably, in practical terms, andybody who is a candidate arrives at the conclave with a strong idea which name he will take. I like the idea of a name being foist upon you. "AG Cardinal DC, the conclave has selected you." "So be it!" "And you shall now and forever be called Pope Beagle I." "Shit! I mean, So be it!"

Benjamin Grimm Apr 18 2008 08:52 AM

I was a candidate for Pope back in 2005, and pretty much decided that if selected, I'd buck tradition and keep my own name. It would be hard for me to get used to signing "Boniface X" on my checks and my Christmas cards.

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 08:55 AM

soupcan wrote: ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]John Paul I was pretty good, as I recall. They'd barely extinguished the fire in the holy smokestack before they had to start it up again. with all due respect and everything. I think he was only in there for like 30 days. Don't they check these guys out before they prop 'em up there? Ditto Johnny's 'all due respect...' They're old guys. They fail. Theory holds out there that it was Karol Wotyla of Poland that blew their minds at the conclave, but he was young and this guy was an interim meant to hold the office for a few years while Karol was groomed. But he was the Holy See's William Henry Harrison.

metirish Apr 18 2008 09:00 AM

Pius is a great Pope name , Hyginus not so much.

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 09:04 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 18 2008 09:05 AM

Not as bad as Sissinius. I'd love to be Hilarius II, but what if I'd used up all my best material when I was a cardinal? "It's great to back in Philadelphia, where I hope to spread the faith like sweet Phialdelphia Cream Cheese." "Booo!" "I'm just getting started folks. Man, that was a long flight..." "Booo! You suck!"

Kong76 Apr 18 2008 09:05 AM

I thought John Paul l got whacked because of his alledged connections wrong-doigs at Imobiliare?

Valadius Apr 18 2008 09:19 AM

Two things: 1. Nicholas I is also known as "the Great" 2. My pick for most hilarious Pope name: Pope Lando

soupcan Apr 18 2008 09:23 AM

Valadius. Noe that's a good name for a Pope.

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 09:40 AM

Wikipedia down't have much on Pope Lando and his sonorous baritone: Lando was elected pope in either July or August, 913; he died about six months later, in either February or March, 914. He was born in Sabina, Italy. His father was reportedly named Taino. He did not change his name on his accession. Lando is thought to have had powerful friends who helped him be elected pope. Little more is known about him. He was the last pope to use a papal name which had not been previously used until Pope John Paul I did so in 1978. Wow, he's thought to have had powerful friends who helped him get elected. That really distinguishes him.

Benjamin Grimm Apr 18 2008 09:50 AM

Wait, where's Pope Joan? I'm only familiar with Pope Joan from a movie listing I used to see in the newspapers from time to time. I had no idea that the film was based on an actual legend. I just assumed it was a goofy movie idea, kind of like DC Comics' Teen President.

AG/DC Apr 18 2008 10:09 AM

I think the only source for the legend is a 13th-century version of a goofy movie idea.

themetfairy Apr 18 2008 12:01 PM

soupcan wrote: ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]John Paul I was pretty good, as I recall. They'd barely extinguished the fire in the holy smokestack before they had to start it up again. with all due respect and everything. I think he was only in there for like 30 days. Don't they check these guys out before they prop 'em up there? Ditto Johnny's 'all due respect...' I remember Bill Murray on SNL's Weekend Update doing the story, "The Pope has died. Hey! This story is a month old - get with it writers!" I'd ditto the "all due respect," but after Kase's comment I figure that this is relatively benign.

Frayed Knot Apr 18 2008 01:58 PM

Then there was the 'Not The New York Times', a satire of a paper put out by a handful of the National Lampoon crew during a newspaper strike. In it they announced that the 2nd Pope John Paul had also died and that his replacement would also take the name of the two previous popes, thereby becoming John Paul John Paul I.

Kong76 Apr 19 2008 07:31 AM

tmf: >>>but after Kase's comment<<< JP l was poisoned in Godfather lll if I have my memory in order. This Benedict dude really ain't doing much for me, he's boring. I'm not a practicing Catholic, but I really liked the last pope -- he had spunk.